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Old 01-05-2013, 08:16 PM   #62461
Lemoninfluence
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wasn't that one of the criticisms of the GCSE system?
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:27 PM   #62462
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Originally Posted by Mistress_Ibanez
The problem is that teachers already work 8 until 6, that's with children coming in at 8.45 and leaving at 3ish. If the children are there 8 til 6 as well that means that to do all the prep, teachers will be working 7.15 until 9, which is just hideous. It'd be more than that actually because extra hours mean extra planning. It's just mind-numbingly stupid. You can't do the necessary prep if the children are still there because they want to do typical human things like interact with you and engage in conversation and stuff which makes getting any marking done tricky.


Also the Tories want all universities to be private so that won't happen any time soon. If only rich children could be allowed to go to them this would also fit Conservative ideology.

I know that, my mother is a teacher. If they bring in the necessary funds and extra staff however, for middle school that may be a good idea. Primary school doesn't really need it I thinl.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:25 AM   #62463
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ry.html?hpid=z1

Looks like Obama is going to be unleashing a broad set of new Gun Control measures next term in reaction the Newtown shooting. They're also coming up with tactics to work around the NRA (i.e. they're not going to listen to anything the NRA has to say.)

It looks like every Conservative nightmare has come true.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:30 AM   #62464
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:40 AM   #62465
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i assume (i'm not really a socialist, as i said, i'm more of a left libertarian) that if the workers owned the means of production, it should (in theory, lol) be run more for the benefit of the workers than for the benefit of the shareholders or CEO etc.

of course, the ripping off of consumers would likely be pretty similar to now (as you implied), since making more money is in the interests of the workers, lol. and there's also no guarantee that the companies would be run any better, either. a lot of people are just dicks regardless of the system.

as someone who has only cursory knowledge of socialism, I'd like to hear a rebuttal/explanation/whatever of this
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:14 AM   #62466
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Originally Posted by Neo Evil11
I know that, my mother is a teacher. If they bring in the necessary funds and extra staff however, for middle school that may be a good idea. Primary school doesn't really need it I thinl.


In what way would this be a good idea?

And where will the children being supervised by the new staff members go? They can't have the classrooms, teachers are working in there.
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:21 AM   #62467
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Originally Posted by Mistress_Ibanez
In what way would this be a good idea?

And where will the children being supervised by the new staff members go? They can't have the classrooms, teachers are working in there.

Why do teachers need to work in those class rooms? Just take the stuff home or to your office.
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I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

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Old 01-06-2013, 08:08 AM   #62468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Evil11
Why do teachers need to work in those class rooms? Just take the stuff home or to your office.
...that's what they're all ready doing...
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It's can be a contraction and genitive case.

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If you cut down on these costs students won't learn so well, effecting the "quality"...
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Old 01-06-2013, 08:26 AM   #62469
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Originally Posted by FrenchyFungus
...that's what they're all ready doing...

Your classroom isn't your office. At least here it isn't.
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I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

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Old 01-06-2013, 08:55 AM   #62470
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Originally Posted by Neo Evil11
Your classroom isn't your office. At least here it isn't.


Teachers here don't have offices. You work in the classroom. Some schools have a 'workroom' for staff but there's no space for stacks of books. Easier to sit at your classroom desk and do those.
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:11 AM   #62471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Evil11
Should pump more money in universities too (although noparty seems to do that)


yeah i can't see that happening

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Originally Posted by Neo Evil11
I know that, my mother is a teacher. If they bring in the necessary funds and extra staff however, for middle school that may be a good idea. Primary school doesn't really need it I thinl.


(just to clarify, i'm not really arguing with you here, just expanding on the points you made. both my parents were teachers too and i'm well aware that if your mum is a teacher that you're probably on their side, and it sounds like you are from what you've posted )

they probably won't bring in extra staff or funding, though. or if they do they'll probably do it the way baker days were originally done, i.e. loads more work for a pittance of more money. it also doesn't help that any time anything is done to teaching it seems to be a sop to anyone who isn't a teacher i.e. who (erroneously) thinks it's a part-time job. that sounds like the politics of envy to me. apparently it's not the politics of envy if right-wingers do it.

from the other side of things as well- i personally wouldn't have wanted to do another 3 hours at school either when i was a pupil. i really don't get the tory mentality. on the one hand it's "freedom freedom freedom", on the other it's "we'll run your life for you, do as we say".

"We don't want no nanny state but we do want your kids for another 3 hours a day!"



Quote:
Originally Posted by TDS
as someone who has only cursory knowledge of socialism, I'd like to hear a rebuttal/explanation/whatever of this


from me or someone else?
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:11 AM   #62472
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Originally Posted by Mistress_Ibanez
Teachers here don't have offices. You work in the classroom. Some schools have a 'workroom' for staff but there's no space for stacks of books. Easier to sit at your classroom desk and do those.

Lol@the English schoolsystem then.
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I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

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Old 01-06-2013, 09:15 AM   #62473
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Originally Posted by Dave_Mc
yeah i can't see that happening



(just to clarify, i'm not really arguing with you here, just expanding on the points you made. both my parents were teachers too and i'm well aware that if your mum is a teacher that you're probably on their side, and it sounds like you are from what you've posted )

they probably won't bring in extra staff or funding, though. or if they do they'll probably do it the way baker days were originally done, i.e. loads more work for a pittance of more money. it also doesn't help that any time anything is done to teaching it seems to be a sop to anyone who isn't a teacher i.e. who (erroneously) thinks it's a part-time job. that sounds like the politics of envy to me. apparently it's not the politics of envy if right-wingers do it.

from the other side of things as well- i personally wouldn't have wanted to do another 3 hours at school either when i was a pupil. i really don't get the tory mentality. on the one hand it's "freedom freedom freedom", on the other it's "we'll run your life for you, do as we say".

"We don't want no nanny state but we do want your kids for another 3 hours a day!"





from me or someone else?
i see your point. Governments plans usually involve more workload for the same pay instead of improving the system. I am only saying that more education in certain subjects will benefit everyone, conditional on it being done with extra teachers.

My point with middle school is that they could give mandatory homework classes as well as some extra classes. It will only make your degree word more. The way kids write and speak English these days warrants some extra english classes in my opinion.
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I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

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Old 01-06-2013, 09:15 AM   #62474
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Originally Posted by Neo Evil11
Lol@the English schoolsystem then.


So in your country, schools contain approximately 100 offices? Where are they situated?
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:22 AM   #62475
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Originally Posted by Mistress_Ibanez
So in your country, schools contain approximately 100 offices? Where are they situated?

We have 33 offices. Usually 2 in every hall(way). Yes that actually works out.
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I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

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Old 01-06-2013, 09:23 AM   #62476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Evil11
(a) i see your point. Governments plans usually involve more workload for the same pay instead of improving the system. (b) I am only saying that more education in certain subjects will benefit everyone, conditional on it being done with extra teachers.

(c) My point with middle school is that they could give mandatory homework classes as well as some extra classes. It will only make your degree word more. (d) The way kids write and speak English these days warrants some extra english classes in my opinion.


(a) haha yeah. the tories' efficiency savings seem to boil down to homer simpson's one in that garbage collecting episode... "maybe people will work harder for no pay"

that's not even made up. i think one of the tories said that maybe teachers could take on more after school clubs for no pay.

(b) true (though it's also worth pointing out that sometimes too much work does more harm than good. I know it's not schoolwork, but if I play guitar for too long I actually start getting worse as I start to tire.)

(c) i'd rather do homework at home (i mean... i'd rather not do any homework, but if i have to i'd rather do it at home where i can do it at my own pace and not have other poeple holding me back)

(d) yeah, probably, but at the same time it's debatable if it's just education or a wider cultural/social matter. I think my grammar is pretty good (not perfect, but pretty good)... and frankly there are some things in english that, while technically correct, if you said them that way here you'd get a kicking for being a pretentious prat
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:25 AM   #62477
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Originally Posted by Dave_Mc
(a) haha yeah. the tories' efficiency savings seem to boil down to homer simpson's one in that garbage collecting episode... "maybe people will work harder for no pay"

that's not even made up. i think one of the tories said that maybe teachers could take on more after school clubs for no pay.

(b) true (though it's also worth pointing out that sometimes too much work does more harm than good. I know it's not schoolwork, but if I play guitar for too long I actually start getting worse as I start to tire.)

(c) i'd rather do homework at home (i mean... i'd rather not do any homework, but if i have to i'd rather do it at home where i can do it at my own pace and not have other poeple holding me back)

(d) yeah, probably, but at the same time it's debatable if it's just education or a wider cultural/social matter. I think my grammar is pretty good (not perfect, but pretty good)... and frankly there are some things in english that, while technically correct, if you said them that way here you'd get a kicking for being a pretentious prat

At home kids have too many distractions etc. Since my little brother and sister go to the homework classes their grades have gone up a lot. They get extra help from teachers there too if they have troubles. You could add also electives like a science class etc.
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I can't believe you are whoring yourself out like that.

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Last edited by Neo Evil11 : 01-06-2013 at 09:27 AM.
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:29 AM   #62478
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Originally Posted by Neo Evil11
We have 33 offices. Usually 2 in every hall(way). Yes that actually works out.


For a school of how many students? We have 700 on role at my school and 60 teachers. I've previously worked at a school of 2000 and 150 teachers.

Anyway back to your assertion that trapping children in school until 6pm could take place in classrooms while the teacher works in their office: 33 offices isn't enough. Where do the other 30 teachers work?


FWIW there are probably about 15 offices in my school for SLT, admin and heads of year. That's 2 corridors just of offices. Kids run down them and swear through the doors. There is no educational merit to a school having so many offices that are empty most of the day.
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:31 AM   #62479
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Originally Posted by Neo Evil11
At home kids have too many distractions etc. Since my little brother and sister go to the homework classes their grades have gone up a lot. They get extra help from teachers there too if they have troubles. You could add also electives like a science class etc.


i thought you were the libertarian?

at school there are distractions too (i.e. other kids holding you back and being dicks).

i have no problem with them being voluntary- i do have a problem with them being mandatory. I don't like punishing the kids who maybe don't need the extra classes. or who maybe would rather work on their own.
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Old 01-06-2013, 09:31 AM   #62480
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Originally Posted by Mistress_Ibanez
For a school of how many students? We have 700 on role at my school and 60 teachers. I've previously worked at a school of 2000 and 150 teachers.

Anyway back to your assertion that trapping children in school until 6pm could take place in classrooms while the teacher works in their office: 33 offices isn't enough. Where do the other 30 teachers work?


FWIW there are probably about 15 offices in my school for SLT, admin and heads of year. That's 2 corridors just of offices. Kids run down them and swear through the doors. There is no educational merit to a school having so many offices that are empty most of the day.

There are 2teachers per office here. 3 for parttimers.
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