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Old 05-09-2013, 06:28 AM   #62921
Draken
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nietsche
I like how when he came into this thread he was so desperate to get people from other political positions to kneel before him and prove their intelligence to him, and now he's on some rant about welfare with not much grounding other than some vague intuition that people on welfare are lazy drug addicts who could easily get jobs if they wanted to.


But once they hit rock bottom they'll get help.
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Old 05-09-2013, 06:31 AM   #62922
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I too believe the world would be a better place if policy decisions were made on the basis of watching cartoons from Japan.
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Old 05-09-2013, 06:34 AM   #62923
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Originally Posted by Nietsche
I too believe the world would be a better place if policy decisions were made on the basis of watching cartoons from Japan.


Gather the 7 dragonballs and wish for permanent fiscal stability.
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Old 05-09-2013, 06:40 AM   #62924
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I was thinking more that we build a Gundam and go rebuild the British empire in space. That'd show 'em.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:15 AM   #62925
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Originally Posted by jjfeu662
Right now I can name 20 people who sell their food stamps for drugs and I don't know many people.

And you think that this proves widespread and systematic abuse of the welfare system?

I know at least 20 people who exploit international capital gains tax loopholes to pay less tax than they should. Maybe we should prosecute everyone with a stock portfolio for tax evasion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjfeu662
I'm saying give them a source of income that boosts the economy rather than hinders it, ie. a job, and make sure they stay off the drugs.

What's the difference between one source of income and another? Money is money. Why would the source of income change spending habits?

And where are you going to get these jobs from? If you're so concerned about making people "stay off the drugs" (which, by the way, is still conjecture) then why not just drug test the whole population?

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Originally Posted by jjfeu662
Maybe he's right? Obama's "stimuli" haven't been working, and right after the Great Depression the economy soared.

1. Obama's stimulus spending is finished, so of course it's not going to be working. When it was taking place it did have an effect - halting the slide of unemployment, preventing bank runs, etc - but was offset to an extent by cutbacks in state and local spending.

2. Expansionary fiscal policy was used to try ending the Great Depression. That is, the government spent shitloads, the exact opposite of what Osbourne's doing.
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Thanks for the advice. I'm going to put it, along with your other advice, into a book, the pages of which I will then use to wipe my ass.
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:33 AM   #62926
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Originally Posted by dann_blood
2. Expansionary fiscal policy was used to try ending the Great Depression. That is, the government spent shitloads, the exact opposite of what Osbourne's doing.

Ozzy is president?
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Old 05-09-2013, 08:48 AM   #62927
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Originally Posted by Jackal58
Ozzy is president?

Yeah, but ever since he changed the official currency to rum, prescription medicine, and cocaine everybody's forgotten...
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Thanks for the advice. I'm going to put it, along with your other advice, into a book, the pages of which I will then use to wipe my ass.
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:13 AM   #62928
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Originally Posted by Jackal58
Really?
Where did you learn history at?
A crack house?


The depression lasted in the US until 1940. The beginning of FDRs 3rd term. It would have lasted much longer if WWII hadn't started in Europe.

He's right though, World War II meant that everyone had a job

And even better, when they came back there was plenty of jobs because, you know, loads of people were dead.
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:16 AM   #62929
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Originally Posted by Ur all $h1t
He's right though, World War II meant that everyone had a job

And even better, when they came back there was plenty of jobs because, you know, loads of people were dead.

His assertion that the Great Depression ended during FDR's first term is no where near correct.
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:23 AM   #62930
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Originally Posted by Jackal58
His assertion that the Great Depression ended during FDR's first term is no where near correct.

On a geological timescale it's extremely accurate.
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Old 05-09-2013, 09:33 AM   #62931
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Originally Posted by Ur all $h1t
On a geological timescale it's extremely accurate.

Woodrow Wilson was a dinosaur!!!!!
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:00 AM   #62932
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Originally Posted by Ur all $h1t
He's right though, World War II meant that everyone had a job.

Actually, the official unemployment rate was still around 1% at it's lowest.

/killjoy
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Thanks for the advice. I'm going to put it, along with your other advice, into a book, the pages of which I will then use to wipe my ass.
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Old 05-09-2013, 10:54 AM   #62933
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Originally Posted by Ur all $h1t
On a geological timescale it's extremely accurate.


Who are you, Kensai?

Astronomical timescales are the only ones that matter
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:14 PM   #62934
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Old 05-09-2013, 01:20 PM   #62935
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There's another bit in that article where she says 'do gooders' are worse than anything Jimmy Savile did.
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Old 05-09-2013, 03:11 PM   #62936
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^ where did it say that? I didn't see that

but aside from that, wtf.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemoninfluence
Give him another go. He can't learn anything until he's hit rock bottom, and now that he's there he can only go up.




Quote:
Originally Posted by jjfeu662
Worked for my uncle

Known fact: When, and only when, a dopehead reaches rock bottom, they will try to get help.


well holy crap, if it worked for one person i see no disadvantage in extrapolating that out to all of humanity.

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Old 05-10-2013, 08:16 AM   #62937
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for jjfeu662

Quote:
Benefit fraud just 0.7 per cent of welfare budget, official figures show

Commenting on figures published today (Thursday) by the Department for Work and Pensions, which show that benefit fraud accounts for just 0.7 per cent of the welfare budget, TUC General Secretary Frances O'Grady said:

'People have been brainwashed into believing that the benefits system is riddled with fraud. In fact it accounts for just 0.7 per cent of the welfare budget and that proportion is not increasing.

'While benefit fraud is a problem, these figures show there is a significant issue with underpayment too, with one in ten housing benefit claimants being underpaid at a time when living costs are soaring.


http://www.tuc.org.uk/economy/tuc-22200-f0.cfm

I know they're figures for the UK, but it shows a massive disparity between the perceived and actual prevalence of fraud.
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Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
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Old 05-10-2013, 09:41 AM   #62938
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Originally Posted by Lemoninfluence
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http://www.tuc.org.uk/economy/tuc-22200-f0.cfm

I know they're figures for the UK, but it shows a massive disparity between the perceived and actual prevalence of fraud.


No, it shows a disparity between the 'street' perception and the 'official' numbers. What relationship either of those has with the 'actual prevalence of fraud' hasn't been shown.

I'm wondering how they determined this? If it's really that simple to arrive at a number in which they are highly confident , it should be equally as simple to solve the problem and reduce it to zero?

Either that or they know there's no realistic way the general populace can check their findings, so whatever number they come up with is fine as long as it advances the desired outcome...
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:02 AM   #62939
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Originally Posted by Arby911
I'm wondering how they determined this? If it's really that simple to arrive at a number in which they are highly confident, it should be equally as simple to solve the problem and reduce it to zero?

How so?
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If you cut down on these costs students won't learn so well, effecting the "quality"...
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:31 AM   #62940
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Originally Posted by Arby911
No, it shows a disparity between the 'street' perception and the 'official' numbers. What relationship either of those has with the 'actual prevalence of fraud' hasn't been shown.

I'm wondering how they determined this? If it's really that simple to arrive at a number in which they are highly confident , it should be equally as simple to solve the problem and reduce it to zero?

Either that or they know there's no realistic way the general populace can check their findings, so whatever number they come up with is fine as long as it advances the desired outcome...


Ok so these are only estimates (because the exact number is impossible to know) but the main thing I take from it is that it goes against the government's agenda of demonising those on welfare.

There's a massive incentive to inflate the numbers as it would lend credibility to their austerity plan. And yet it's such a small number.

The 0.7% figure in the article is misleading here's a breakdown from the actual report

Quote:
Type of error

>0.7%, or £1.2bn, of total benefit expenditure is overpaid due to fraud;
>0.9%, or £1.6bn, of total benefit expenditure is overpaid due to claimant error;
>0.4%, or £0.7bn, of total benefit expenditure is overpaid due to official error.

>0.6%, or £0.9bn, of total benefit expenditure is underpaid due to claimant error;
>0.3%, or £0.5bn, of total benefit expenditure is underpaid due to official error.


And even within the individual benefit programs that are most exposed to fraud we're still talking about small minorities.

Quote:
>4.6%, or £250m, of Income Support expenditure (£5.5bn) was overpaid
>4.2%, or £220m, of Jobseeker’s Allowance expenditure (£5.3bn) was overpaid
>5.5%, or £420m, of Pension Credit expenditure (£7.6bn) was overpaid
>5.3%, or £1,270m, of Housing Benefit expenditure (£23.8bn) was overpaid


For the method of calculation check paragraph 1.6-1.10

http://statistics.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd2/fem/FEM_1213P.pdf
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Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
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