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Old 05-10-2013, 10:31 AM   #62941
Lemoninfluence
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arby911
No, it shows a disparity between the 'street' perception and the 'official' numbers. What relationship either of those has with the 'actual prevalence of fraud' hasn't been shown.

I'm wondering how they determined this? If it's really that simple to arrive at a number in which they are highly confident , it should be equally as simple to solve the problem and reduce it to zero?

Either that or they know there's no realistic way the general populace can check their findings, so whatever number they come up with is fine as long as it advances the desired outcome...


Ok so these are only estimates (because the exact number is impossible to know) but the main thing I take from it is that it goes against the government's agenda of demonising those on welfare.

There's a massive incentive to inflate the numbers as it would lend credibility to their austerity plan. And yet it's such a small number.

The 0.7% figure in the article is misleading here's a breakdown from the actual report

Quote:
Type of error

>0.7%, or £1.2bn, of total benefit expenditure is overpaid due to fraud;
>0.9%, or £1.6bn, of total benefit expenditure is overpaid due to claimant error;
>0.4%, or £0.7bn, of total benefit expenditure is overpaid due to official error.

>0.6%, or £0.9bn, of total benefit expenditure is underpaid due to claimant error;
>0.3%, or £0.5bn, of total benefit expenditure is underpaid due to official error.


And even within the individual benefit programs that are most exposed to fraud we're still talking about small minorities.

Quote:
>4.6%, or £250m, of Income Support expenditure (£5.5bn) was overpaid
>4.2%, or £220m, of Jobseeker’s Allowance expenditure (£5.3bn) was overpaid
>5.5%, or £420m, of Pension Credit expenditure (£7.6bn) was overpaid
>5.3%, or £1,270m, of Housing Benefit expenditure (£23.8bn) was overpaid


For the method of calculation check paragraph 1.6-1.10

http://statistics.dwp.gov.uk/asd/asd2/fem/FEM_1213P.pdf
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Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:44 AM   #62942
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There is a difference between outright fraud and what some would call a misappropriation of funds once legitimately received by the individual on assistance.
If an individual is using an item such as food stamps fraudulently prosecute them.
If they are using cash benefits to purchase items you don't approve of tough shit.
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:37 PM   #62943
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It is not the responsibility of the state to dictate to somebody how to live their life.

I think that's what I said.
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Old 05-10-2013, 03:20 PM   #62944
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how do you use food stamps fraudulently?

"Ahahahahaha I'm gonna use those potatoes with my potato gun, not eat them!"

Sorry.



Just be glad I decided against the less PG version which included cucumbers
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Old 05-10-2013, 03:24 PM   #62945
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people will sell food stamps at pennies on the dollar for cash. you know. to buy hookers and blow.
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Old 05-10-2013, 03:27 PM   #62946
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thanks. yeah i figured it was something like that.
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Old 05-10-2013, 03:29 PM   #62947
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So Dready and Jackal and co; what do you guys make of this article about the Syria Situation: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/...currentPage=all

Accurate?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_Mc
how do you use food stamps fraudulently?

"Ahahahahaha I'm gonna use those potatoes with my potato gun, not eat them!"

Sorry.

C'mon man, stereotyping.
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Old 05-10-2013, 03:49 PM   #62948
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i was talking about america I don't think we have food stamps here. do you have them down south?
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Old 05-10-2013, 03:56 PM   #62949
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i was talking about america I don't think we have food stamps here. do you have them down south?

No, thank fuck, they probably wouldn't let you buy pints with them and then my job would be fucked.
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Old 05-10-2013, 04:05 PM   #62950
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rational self-interest, it's the capitalist way!
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Old 05-10-2013, 04:14 PM   #62951
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Old 05-10-2013, 04:18 PM   #62952
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Originally Posted by Dave_Mc


rational self-interest, it's the capitalist way!

To be fair actually, a lot of our dole day crowd are on disability or invalidity rather than jobseeker's.

Still, Wednesday mornings are savage busy, crowd lining the bar before 10am.


There was an interesting article I read before about a town in Rhode Island that experiences a monthly boom-bust cycle coinciding with the giving out of government benefits (mainly food stamps)
Found the article
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Old 05-10-2013, 04:30 PM   #62953
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Originally Posted by Ur all $h1t
So Dready and Jackal and co; what do you guys make of this article about the Syria Situation: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/...currentPage=all

Accurate?





C'mon man, stereotyping.

I'd say it is a fairly accurate representation of current conditions. It does omit some possibly terrifying scenarios that I really believe a lot of people don't want to consider.
1 All out blood bath between Shiites and Sunnis that does not recognize any political boundaries.

2 Israeli intervention in Syria on a much larger scale than seen so far.

Both of those could create the mother of all snowballs rolling down a hill with no bottom.

3 Assad deploys chemical weapons full scale against rebel groups.

That could kick off scenarios one and two.

On the possible use of chemical agents in the current Syrian civil war. There may have been instances of their use but I don't believe it to have been Sarin. The eyewitnesses claiming they were affected would be most likely dead.

Sarin is extremely lethal even in minute amounts and has a persistence of several hours to several days in the area it was released. Meaning people heading into the affected area immediately after the attacks would be dead too.

As far as his assessment of the current administrations willingness to commit further military forces into Syria I have no idea.

Any assertion that the US military lacks an ability to "put boots on the ground" inside Syria is ludicrous. Ask Saddam. Oh wait you can't. Whether they could be removed after the fact in any type of timely manner is the real question.
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Old 05-10-2013, 04:31 PM   #62954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrenchyFungus
How so?



It presumes a level of knowledge about the exact nature of the fraud that would seem sufficient to eradicate it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by magnus_maximus
It is not the responsibility of the state to dictate to somebody how to live their life.


I completely agree.

Some would argue that it's also not the responsibility of the state to provide the means of living said life either, and in many (but not all) instances I also agree.
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Old 05-10-2013, 04:32 PM   #62955
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^^^ (paddy) yeah i mean i knew you were only (sorta) joking (and i was too).

and that article's crazy

^ possibly, though sometimes knowing illegal stuff is happening and proving it are two different things...
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Old 05-10-2013, 04:38 PM   #62956
jjfeu662
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What do you call it if you have a Democratic view on business and military but a Republican view on welfare and taxes? Because I'm a little confused.

Solution to Syria: send 47 or some similarly skilled hitman to assassinate the dictator (forgot his name).
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Old 05-10-2013, 04:41 PM   #62957
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Originally Posted by jjfeu662
What do you call it if you have a Democratic view on business and military but a Republican view on welfare and taxes? Because I'm a little confused.

Solution to Syria: send 47 or some similarly skilled hitman to assassinate the dictator (forgot his name).

schizophrenic.

Bashar al-Assad.
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Old 05-10-2013, 04:42 PM   #62958
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More like Bastard al-Asshat

AMIRITEGUISE
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Old 05-10-2013, 04:42 PM   #62959
Arby911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjfeu662
What do you call it if you have a Democratic view on business and military but a Republican view on welfare and taxes? Because I'm a little confused.



Answer found in question...
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Old 05-10-2013, 04:43 PM   #62960
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I'd say it is a fairly accurate representation of current conditions. It does omit some possibly terrifying scenarios that I really believe a lot of people don't want to consider.
1 All out blood bath between Shiites and Sunnis that does not recognize any political boundaries.

2 Israeli intervention in Syria on a much larger scale than seen so far.

Both of those could create the mother of all snowballs rolling down a hill with no bottom.

3 Assad deploys chemical weapons full scale against rebel groups.

That could kick off scenarios one and two.

On the possible use of chemical agents in the current Syrian civil war. There may have been instances of their use but I don't believe it to have been Sarin. The eyewitnesses claiming they were affected would be most likely dead.

Sarin is extremely lethal even in minute amounts and has a persistence of several hours to several days in the area it was released. Meaning people heading into the affected area immediately after the attacks would be dead too.

As far as his assessment of the current administrations willingness to commit further military forces into Syria I have no idea.

Any assertion that the US military lacks an ability to "put boots on the ground" inside Syria is ludicrous. Ask Saddam. Oh wait you can't. Whether they could be removed after the fact in any type of timely manner is the real question.

These all make me sad
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