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Old 06-30-2015, 06:31 AM   #1
Pastafarian96
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Prison Smoking Ban

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-...t--reports.html

tl;dr: Victorian politicians thought it would be a good idea to ban smoking inside prisons, hours later there was a riot because of the ban.

Do you think a ban on smoking in any institution of incarceration (prison, psychiatric hospital, etc.) would be a good idea?
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Last edited by Pastafarian96 : 06-30-2015 at 06:40 AM.
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Old 06-30-2015, 06:50 AM   #2
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Never been to prison, but smoke free zones within public areas/cells seems pretty reasonable.

A blanket ban is stupid though, u'd never do it to the general public, prisoners should be treated no different.
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Old 06-30-2015, 07:07 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Gatecrasher53
Never been to prison, but smoke free zones within public areas/cells seems pretty reasonable.

A blanket ban is stupid though, u'd never do it to the general public, prisoners should be treated no different.


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Old 06-30-2015, 07:18 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastafarian96
http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-...t--reports.html

tl;dr: Victorian politicians thought it would be a good idea to ban smoking inside prisons, hours later there was a riot because of the ban.

Do you think a ban on smoking in any institution of incarceration (prison, psychiatric hospital, etc.) would be a good idea?


Not quite, they banned the sale of tobacco products in prisons over a month ago. The actual ban on smoking doesn't kick in until tomorrow.

On the whole, it's one of those things that sounds nice in theory, but putting it into practice seems to be a mammoth task, given that the majority of the prison population are smokers. (Somewhere in the vicinity of 80% I think). I seriously would hope that the Government consulted with members of the medical profession about how to treat th withdrawls and cravings....but you never know
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Old 06-30-2015, 07:32 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by i_lovemetallica
Not quite, they banned the sale of tobacco products in prisons over a month ago. The actual ban on smoking doesn't kick in until tomorrow.

My bad, this is correct
Quote:
Originally Posted by i_lovemetallica
On the whole, it's one of those things that sounds nice in theory, but putting it into practice seems to be a mammoth task, given that the majority of the prison population are smokers. (Somewhere in the vicinity of 80% I think). I seriously would hope that the Government consulted with members of the medical profession about how to treat th withdrawls and cravings....but you never know

I think they did, judging by the way the interview I heard this morning went.
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:11 AM   #6
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Whilst prisoners riot against smoking bans, the rest of Australia riots against the discontinuation of manufacturing of green frog lollies.

http://www.9news.com.au/national/20...pearmint-leaves
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:20 AM   #7
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Spearmint leaves can **** right off......they're lollies for old people.
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:20 AM   #8
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^ u wot m8

@mind_meld - we are officially beginning to fail as Australia.
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:25 AM   #9
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:26 AM   #10
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i got arrested cause i'm smokin hot ha ha ha
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Old 06-30-2015, 08:41 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastafarian96
@mind_meld - we are officially beginning to fail as Australia.
To be fair though, this is something that affects all australians

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Old 06-30-2015, 09:05 AM   #12
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:27 AM   #13
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It's prison. Prison is allegedly all about rehab. Cigarettes are bad for you. Nicotine is an addiction. Ban Smoking. Consider it part of their rehab process.

Either that or allow alcohol for those who are similarly addicted...
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:31 AM   #14
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as soon as you ban something as trivial as smoking in prisons it's just gonna turn into organized crime...


EDIT: Telling someone they can't have something when they're addicted is like 100% the wrong thing to do ^

You might think it's the right thing but it's cruel. rehabilitation and forcing your will are two totally different things in my book
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:36 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obsceneairwaves
as soon as you ban something as trivial as smoking in prisons it's just gonna turn into organized crime...


EDIT: Telling someone they can't have something when they're addicted is like 100% the wrong thing to do ^

You might think it's the right thing but it's cruel. rehabilitation and forcing your will are two totally different things in my book


So based on your own words above you would support alcohol for alcoholics as well? Meth for tweakers? Good to know.
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:40 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Arby911
So based on your own words above you would support alcohol for alcoholics as well? Meth for tweakers? Good to know.


No, but the only thing you're going to do by ignoring someones physical or psychological needs is create non-compliance and anger

If someone is addicted to alcohol you need to help them realise it's not ok for them to keep it up and let them make the choice themselves, or as soon as they're no longer under the force of your will they will dive straight back into it, probably worse than before to prove a point that your will is bs
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:44 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Obsceneairwaves
No, but the only thing you're going to do by ignoring someones physical or psychological needs is create non-compliance and anger

If someone is addicted to alcohol you need to help them realise it's not ok for them to keep it up and let them make the choice themselves, or as soon as they're no longer under the force of your will they will dive straight back into it, probably worse than before to prove a point that your will is bs


You say no you wouldn't support it, but then turn right around and say you need to "let them make the choice for themselves".

Which is it? If you don't allow it they are hardly making the choice for themselves.
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:51 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatecrasher53
Never been to prison, but smoke free zones within public areas/cells seems pretty reasonable.

A blanket ban is stupid though, u'd never do it to the general public, prisoners should be treated no different.

Having spent a lot of time in hospitals, I wouldn't ban it anywhere that people have to be.

The 'no smoking' zones outside hospitals are routinely ignored(by people who have had amputations for peripheral vascular diseases caused by smoking; by people talking about their terminal cancer dignoses; and best of all, by pregnant women). So you've got people huddled in what little shelter there is(because I live in Scotland, and we have 2 types of weather - raining, and pishing doon), when they could be in a well-ventilated room indoors. It doesn't have to be comfy, it just has to be kept at a lower pressure than the ward outside, so that air enters the room instead of leaving it when the door opens.
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:53 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arby911
You say no you wouldn't support it, but then turn right around and say you need to "let them make the choice for themselves".

Which is it? If you don't allow it they are hardly making the choice for themselves.


I think you're getting confused mate.

in very simple terms...

If you take something from someone, they will get mad and try to get it back
if you find a way to show someone that what they have is not ok, they will give it up

Get it?

It's significantly more complicated than that, but that's the gist

It's why people have interventions, It's about taking steps towards rehabilitation not forcing people to do what you think is best for them.

If you ban smoking, you're taking away choice.
not the choice to smoke or not, but the choice to be rehabilitated or not. if you don't decide yourself to not smoke, you will not stop smoking. And in prison, regardless whether or not it's illegal, you will find tobacco. And that's going to cause way more problems than smoking
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Old 06-30-2015, 09:56 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obsceneairwaves
I think you're getting confused mate.

in very simple terms...

If you take something from someone, they will get mad and try to get it back
if you find a way to show someone that what they have is not ok, they will give it up

Get it?

It's significantly more complicated than that, but that's the gist

It's why people have interventions, It's about taking steps towards rehabilitation not forcing people to do what you think is best for them.

If you ban smoking, you're taking away choice.
not the choice to smoke or not, but the choice to be rehabilitated or not. if you don't decide yourself to not smoke, you will not stop smoking. And in prison, regardless whether or not it's illegal, you will find tobacco. And that's going to cause way more problems than smoking


No, I'm not confused at all, you've said 2 contradictory things. How about addressing them instead of sidestepping them?

If you allow tobacco, why not alcohol?

You're trying to muddy the waters with incidental issues, but let's stay on task here.
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