Go Back   UG Community @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com > Music > Musician Talk
User Name  
Password
Search:

Reply
Old 01-24-2016, 08:57 PM   #1
jonathanlerner13
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
ambient black metal tone help

i wanna form a 2 man ambient black metal project with creepypasta horror themed lyrics and with me as the vocalist, guitarist and pianist, the name of the band is into the wods but i wanna know how to get the ambient black metal tone on guitar i have a line 6 spider IV 15 (i know it's a small amp) so how do i get the ambient black metal sound
jonathanlerner13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2016, 04:03 AM   #2
Kevštuhri
Thinking of a good title
 
Kevštuhri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Norjan alapuolella
Put the spider on the heaviest, most brutal setting -> buy a reverb pedal -> dime all the controls.

Seriously though, the Spider is a small beginner amp, and it's not even great at that. I know people make jokes about black metal tone all the time, but a good tone is still a good tone and you're not going to get one from the Spider in a band setting.

What kind of tones are you looking into? Do you have a any favorite bands that could give us the idea of what tones you're after?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jet Penguin
Theory: Not rules, just tools.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hail
*note that by fan i mean that guy who wants his friends to know he knows this totally obscure hip band that only he knows about with 236 views on youtube. lookin' at Kev here
Kevštuhri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2016, 05:57 AM   #3
Hail
i'm a mean bully
 
Hail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
focus more on acoustic guitar and don't worry about reproduction live. focus solely on recording. good black metal isn't played live (except emperor)

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by theogonia777
Hail killed MT

Quote:
Originally Posted by jongtr
I want to be Hail when I grow up.
Hail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2016, 01:13 PM   #4
RonaldPoe
Registered User
 
RonaldPoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
If you're trying to create Ambient Black Metal (or any Black Metal for that matter), I'd suggest learning to write the music before bothering with your tone.

I'm far from a professional on this but here's a few tips I can think of. Black Metal is supposed to be dark, depressing, and slightly evil. One way to darken your sound is to replace a major chord in your chord progression with its minor counterpart (like using F Minor instead of F major in an Am progression). You've got to learn tremolo picking or at least how to play 16th notes and triplets/gallops (especially on chords and the like). Don't be afraid to utilize dissonant intervals like the tritone and augmented 5th.

Also I find the D flat5 (D, F#, G#) chord to sound particularly sinister (it was used in the Kingdom Hearts track, "Villain of a Sort) and it's based in the C Whole-tone scale. It might be a good chord to incorporate. Also I believe Hail and Kev can lead you in the right direction (they probably know the most about Black Metal on this forum).
__________________
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
RonaldPoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2016, 02:31 PM   #5
Hail
i'm a mean bully
 
Hail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
production is a very large part of all black metal honestly. at times moreso than the actual composition

repetition is necessary, and it's important to not make anything too particularly striking - unless it's way too striking. think of it like theatre. people need to play up their expressions so the people in the back can see, but when they're not in the forefront they need to be able to essentially disappear. if you constantly have harsh noise, people often won't want to listen to it. you have to be able to pull in just enough tension without scaring everybody off and making a hot mess.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by theogonia777
Hail killed MT

Quote:
Originally Posted by jongtr
I want to be Hail when I grow up.
Hail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2016, 01:29 PM   #6
RonaldPoe
Registered User
 
RonaldPoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Varg might be a deranged psychopath but he's a master at Atmospheric/Ambient Black Metal. It's dark, raw, slightly-depressing, and atmospheric as can be. Listen to Burzum for inspiration and influence. Of course it's best to separate the artist from the art in cases like this.



Me and Hail have given enough tips for you to get started.
__________________
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
RonaldPoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2016, 01:35 PM   #7
theogonia777
Miss Kristen
 
theogonia777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Backwoods
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldPoe
Me and Hail have given enough tips for you to get started.


Your tips honestly weren't very good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevštuhri
I know people make jokes about black metal tone all the time, but a good tone is still a good tone and you're not going to get one from the Spider in a band setting.


Black metal doesn't use what is conventionally considered to be good tone. You want scratchy highs but a lot of times not too much extreme highs. Cut out the lows as well. Really the most important frequency in black are the high mids, which should be boosted a lot.

Reverb is really not as important to black metal as some might think or lead you to believe. Generally bands either want to sound very empty or very full in terms of the overall sound. The latter is accomplished more by layering and use of guitar parts.

Another very important concept being moving harmony notes over static roots. The main riff from Transilvanian Hunger is one of the most basic examples. In a way black metal guitar has a lot in common with the types of diad/triad based licks you hear on the pedal steel guitar other than the actual note chooses.

There's really a lot more to it and it is a very broad subgenre with many highly contrasting sounds and bands in different corners of the subgenre have few similarities actually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldPoe
One way to darken your sound is to replace a major chord in your chord progression with its minor counterpart (like using F Minor instead of F major in an Am progression).


Trying to frame black metal from a diatonic perspective is a very bad way to approach it since much of it is decidedly non-diatonic based and the black metal that is heavily diatonic tends to use very few "out of key" chords other than chords borrowed from related modes, with Dorian for example being common.

The idea that black metal is all about minor chords is also fairly inaccurate, as a lot of melodic tendencies in black metal, particularly the more diatonic sounding bands, are borrowed from folk music and progressions will often use combinations of i, bIII, bVI, and bVII as the basis of harmony.

If any "outside" chords are added into diatonic music, it tends to be major chords, particularly the major dominant chord that characterizes the harmonic minor scale

Quote:
You've got to learn tremolo picking or at least how to play 16th notes and triplets/gallops (especially on chords and the like).


Tremolo picking, especially 16th notes, is not as prevalent as stereotypes would indicate. Gallops are not very common in black metal, particularly in 4/4, and you're misusing the word triplet, which is not synonymous with gallops despite what people believe.

Quote:
Don't be afraid to utilize dissonant intervals like the tritone and augmented 5th.


Dissonant intervals are likewise not all that common in the vertical harmony of black metal other than as a brief passing tone against a static note. The augmented 5th is not a dissonant interval and in fact is fairly consonant by itself.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolmnt
That's right I have a four inch penis.


Comma splices killed Steve McNair. When you post a comma splice, you are supporting murder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NirvanaLuvr16
omg its better than i imagined... so dark and cozy and warm...


Now you have no excuse...

Last edited by theogonia777 : 01-26-2016 at 01:57 PM.
theogonia777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2016, 04:14 PM   #8
RonaldPoe
Registered User
 
RonaldPoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Theogonia777, I was just being general and basing my tips off research I did. I guess I made a few inaccuracies in my advice and am sorry if I misled anyone. You also caught me about the Triplet and Gallop thing (gallops are any mixture of 2 sixteenth notes and one 8th note but triplets are 3 evenly spaced notes). I learned quite a bit from your post. I'm aware that like in any style, many bands/artists sound very different from each other. In fact I'm curious about what the proper basics of Black Metal are as well.

However tasteful repetition and dark atmosphere really are important in Black Metal. Even in a style like this, having a good melody is essential. I also believe writing goes above tone.
__________________
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
RonaldPoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2016, 05:40 PM   #9
Hail
i'm a mean bully
 
Hail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
tremolo picking is a pretty important aspect. frantically picking them m3no5 power chords is insta-kvlt

tbh it's hard to put boundaries on black metal. it's a surprisingly experimental genre when you get out of the immortal wannabes and elitists
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by theogonia777
Hail killed MT

Quote:
Originally Posted by jongtr
I want to be Hail when I grow up.
Hail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 01:15 PM   #10
RonaldPoe
Registered User
 
RonaldPoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
I know my tips haven't been the best but I've got 2 more. First I think Corey Hunter (Youtube guitar teacher) has some good lessons on Black Metal and dark atmospheres. Second I think learning how to write Dark Ambient (a style of electronic music that revolves around dark atmospheres) might help you write black metal.
__________________
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
RonaldPoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2016, 06:35 PM   #11
Hail
i'm a mean bully
 
Hail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
that's like saying "guitar hero will help you play guitar"
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by theogonia777
Hail killed MT

Quote:
Originally Posted by jongtr
I want to be Hail when I grow up.
Hail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2016, 01:09 PM   #12
RonaldPoe
Registered User
 
RonaldPoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Hail, I only suggested learning to write Dark Ambient as a method for learning to create dark atmospheres (an important part of Black Metal and especially its atmospheric side). Different genres sometimes do teach you skills applicable in other styles. Although this may come from my love of playing bass.

The only way playing Guitar Hero helps in real guitar is maybe practicing your sense of rhythm and possibly musical inspiration but that's it (they really are very different). As someone who started out with Guitar Hero, I wouldn't suggest it as an alternative to theory or good lessons at all. It's just a fun video game.
__________________
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
RonaldPoe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:20 PM.

Forum Archives / About / TOS / Advertise with us / Customer Support / Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2016
Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.