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Old 02-03-2008, 11:08 AM   #21
DaFjory
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Cheers Lemo'.



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Music is to be listened to and enjoyed.

Durr. Why do you think I've spent good money on 268 CDs over a period of 5 years? To look at waveforms?

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If you can't enjoy it, then don't listen. Simple.

Nah? Now that really doesn't make any sense. I try to enjoy each and every one as much as I can (having spent said money [probably thousands of £] on them, after all). But like I said, a good portion of them are awfully loud and kinda make it hard to enjoy them. I do the best I can to put up with it, but in the end I'll always think the same – "why did they beef the volume up so much?"

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Unless you happen to become some revolutionary sound producer in the next few years, you ain' gonna change anything by complaining.

Y'know, that wouldn't be such a bad idea if I wanted to put my mind to it. But, I'm happy with my job at the moment and I can't be arsed to get back to studying, so that one will just have to be confined to the depth of my other failed dreams (being a pilot, being an astronaut, etc.) Whether I change anything or not, I'll still damn well complain through forums or word of mouth if I spend money on a product and get nothing but audible mush. Someone's gonna hear it!

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Also, If you get to the point of analysing the mastering process to THAT point, music has lost its effect.

I'll agree halves with you there. As I said earlier, I've only started looking into things in detail within the past 8 months; before than, I noticed nothing for a good 4 years. Then in August '07 my ears began to tell me "gawsh, this is rather loud and fuzzy – why not open up the ol' editor and have a look at what's going on?", hence I saw vast differences between '80s and '00s waveforms, and decided to look into it further. It was pure curiousity and nothing more, to begin with. But I'll agree with you on the second point – I have become so tuned into hearing mastering quality (or, my ears are), that a lot of my music has started to lose its effect simply because they're a chore to listen to. Case in point being Suspended Animation.

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Sure you may do it "for the love of music" but when it comes down to it, if you're getting so anal as to start putting songs through music editors to try and analyse the scope, sorry dude, I'm not taking anything else seriously.

So you're not. That's alright. At least I've got my point across and started a half-decent discussion about it. Rather, I've been happy to do just that – discuss it. I knew I wouldn't get loads of folks running to join my 'cause', but I reckon my heart's in the right place. Even if my ears aren't...!

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If your ears were "as sensitive as a bon jovi fan" they would be amazingly sensitive. Like a freakin' bat.

I think Bon Jovi fans might actually have their hearing a bit dulled, since the remasters of their albums are clipped atrociously.

Last edited by DaFjory : 06-05-2009 at 08:17 AM.
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Old 02-03-2008, 04:19 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by CJRocker
Just another paranoid Audiophile thing.


Definitely not.

I like the wording though. Just another paranoid audiophile thing, like what others?
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Old 02-04-2008, 01:00 AM   #23
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In answer to the question, "why did they make it so loud," is that studios and record labels know that the majority of music is listened to on cheap computer speakers and headphones where the the quality of the sound and it's subtleties are greatly diminished.

Capitalism is capitalism. They are just catering to the mass consumer, and that is most unfortunate for us audiophiles.
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Old 02-05-2008, 06:20 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Erc
They are just catering to the mass consumer, and that is most unfortunate for us audiophiles.


Yes, this is true. The raison d'être of mainstream music that is produced these days is not to be listened and analysed, but to serve as an endless wall of muzak that clouds one's perception whilst shopping, jogging, sitting in the bus etc. In short, it's not for the people who like music but for those who don't like silence, and only way to fulfill this purpose it has to be loud.
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Old 02-05-2008, 08:54 AM   #25
wil
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I own all of Porcupine Trees stuff and the mixing and production on those is AWESOME-Listen to The Sky Moves Sideways=Wilson sure as hell knows what hes doing.
On the whole though, Im with the threadstarter on this. Suspended Animation has some great songs, but its painful to listen to at times, same for GOOMY.
Also, listen to DTs Live Scenes Album---Erotomania specifically---its so compressed its almost unlistenable.
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Old 02-07-2008, 05:35 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Magero
Am I the only person who when listening to some of these exampled CD's notices NOTHING THE FUCK WRONG!? Suspended Animation has superb mastering and I have had no problems with clipping, or over distortion. Either your ear is as sensitive as a Bon Jovi fan or you have got no sound system worthy of giving you the full quality of the sound.

Hey, I'm a Bon Jovi fan...
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Old 03-16-2013, 03:18 PM   #27
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Thumbs down

Loudness ruins the clarity and definition in music. I've reduced the purchase of new albums these days because they are so loud and unlistenable!

If you listen with headphones, you can kiss your ears goodbye.

The older CD's (pre 1992) sound so much better and clearer. Lucky for me, I have found many older CD's that are not mixed by late 90's-2000's standards.

This is a serious problem and really turns me off to buying newer music.

Last edited by Metallilmeister : 03-16-2013 at 03:27 PM.
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Old 03-16-2013, 03:31 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by DeathDealer
loud makes music good...hearing every instrument clearly is important. if you listen to old recordings they are almost whisper soft

i could see if you wanna keep that kind of dynamic range in classical music, but for rock & electronic music?? come on dude
you're buying into the audio hysteria


I used to think this way as well. Until I actually did practical A/B tests and noticed that my ears were getting dim from the overcompressed/loud mixes.

The dynamic recordings mixed at sane levels sound much clearer and warmer, and allow you to listen for long periods of time.
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Old 04-07-2013, 12:28 PM   #29
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The problem is you're listening to CDs and/or MP3s.

Say what you want about vinyl, but that's how that music was intended to sound; as in, not compressed to the max.
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Old 04-08-2013, 12:01 AM   #30
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Well Dafjory you're in luck.

Recently across the world a new audio standard has been created by the International Trade Union - I cannot remember the number right now - which has recently gone into effect across all forms of broadcast audio/visual media: cinema, internet, and - most importantly - television.

The standard states that the average audio level for the entire duration of a program cannot exceed -24dbfs, as opposed to the current standard which says audio cannot peak above -12dbfs. This standard has been brought in to combat the fact that advertisements (mainly) would all be compressed to hell in order to appear louder than the programs around it. What the standard does is takes away the advantage of over compression by creating an average based system, rather than a peak based system.

So essentially you can compress your sounds to hell, but they can only stick to an average of -24dbfs, whereas a well mastered program with dynamic range can essentially peak at 0dbfs and lull at -63dbfs, which means it will actually sound louder than the more compressed program.

The good news for music is that they are going to be applying this standard to broadcast and internet radio - which will in turn force record companies to start mastering their music for dynamic range rather than loudness.

So yeah, to anybody praising the loudness war and master compression, sorry, but that will be old hat, (and actually illegal) soon.

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