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Old 02-27-2008, 08:23 PM   #41
GuitarMunky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bangoodcharlote
We're not talking about music. We're talking about speed. I'm sorry that you don't care about how fast you can play, but since you don't, kindly piss off.


Why would you even play a MUSICAL INSTRUMENT.... if you dont intend to play music on it ??

and if your talking about any aspect of what you do with a MUSICAL INSTRUMENT, shouldnt it somehow relate to MUSIC, and doesnt it make sense to use MUSICAL TERMS??

your sorry? You pity me for not caring about how fast I play ? LOL

Rejecting the term NPS has nothing to do with caring or not caring about playing fast. Its just about seeing the term for what it is, and realizing there are better, more appropriate terms that can be used.
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Old 02-27-2008, 08:26 PM   #42
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^Eh? I spend most of my time writing music.
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Old 02-27-2008, 08:47 PM   #43
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Right...

GuitarMunky: Good musicians know that nps serves no purpose, we know this and should just pity those who do not yet realise it; just leave him be, please.

bangoodcharlote: GuitarMunky is right, the term nps serves no use beyond internet pissing contests by people who have nothing better to do; I can flat out guarantee you that all your favourite shredders never use the term nps and most of them have probably never even heard it.
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Old 02-27-2008, 08:52 PM   #44
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You do what you need to do. I'll just stick to being proficient on the guitar.
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Old 02-27-2008, 09:07 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bangoodcharlote
You do what you need to do. I'll just stick to being proficient on the guitar.


For a start I'm good on guitar, I know I am so I don't need to get into stupid internet pissing contests with the likes of you.

Secondly, do you practice in nps? Have you ever heard anyone tell anyone else how to play a piece of music in nps? Have you ever written something with a specific nps in mind? Probably not, so what use does nps serve beyond showing off on forums and trying to win arguments about "who's the better guitarist" without actually taking music into account? None.
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Old 02-27-2008, 09:18 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaphod_Beeblebr
For a start I'm good on guitar, I know I am so I don't need to get into stupid internet pissing contests with the likes of you.

Secondly, do you practice in nps? Have you ever heard anyone tell anyone else how to play a piece of music in nps? Have you ever written something with a specific nps in mind? Probably not, so what use does nps serve beyond showing off on forums and trying to win arguments about "who's the better guitarist" without actually taking music into account? None.


He is not saying he practices in nps nor that it is useful for music at all. NPS is a term used to describe a shredders speed, that is it, it serves no purpose, so stop leaving him alone. He knows it serves no purpose except to measure speed, thats all, and we all know that, theres no need to keep repeating it. Measuring a shredders speed in NPS is common around these forums, so get over yourselves.
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Old 02-27-2008, 09:26 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ouchies
He is not saying he practices in nps nor that it is useful for music at all. NPS is a term used to describe a shredders speed, that is it, it serves no purpose, so stop leaving him alone. He knows it serves no purpose except to measure speed, thats all, and we all know that, theres no need to keep repeating it. Measuring a shredders speed in NPS is common around these forums, so get over yourselves.


I know but I think GuitarMunky is right, using the term nps seems to promote a certain mindset that goes with the idea that speed is an important factor and that being fastest is important in any way. A mindset that ignores the music, which is, after all, the most important thing.

I'm done with this discussion, everyone's getting the wrong idea about everyone else and I really can't be bothered anymore.

Edit: just found this, thought it was quite funny:

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Last edited by Zaphod_Beeblebr : 02-27-2008 at 09:29 PM.
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Old 02-27-2008, 09:36 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ouchies
so stop leaving him alone.
You're well intentioned, but I don't think you want them to stop leaving me alone.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonofthenight
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"Melodic Control" by Marty Friedman: A video on soloing
A Great Theory Lesson

A Harmonizing Lesson
The Correct Way To Play The Gallop

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Old 02-27-2008, 10:15 PM   #49
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Just throwing this out there, but when was the last time you practiced with a metronome in notes per second, or saw a powertab in notes per second, or told your band "Alright, I think we should playthis at around 11 nps"? I just prefer bps because it's more common, and I could care less about how fast I play. As long as it's fast enough.
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Old 02-27-2008, 10:23 PM   #50
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^You don't prefer bps. You prefer bpm. We've established that NPS is not used in a musical score, but rather used to compare the speed of notes at different tempos.
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Originally Posted by demonofthenight
Sue, you amaze, gross, educate wonder, inspire and turn me on so much


"Melodic Control" by Marty Friedman: A video on soloing
A Great Theory Lesson

A Harmonizing Lesson
The Correct Way To Play The Gallop

~Sue
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Old 02-27-2008, 10:51 PM   #51
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NPS = useless, I just like it to see how fast I can go
BPM = Can be used in a music situation. all good.

/argument.
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Old 02-27-2008, 10:54 PM   #52
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im pretty sure for shred...what about a 13 note per second lick is prly the minimum...?
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Old 02-28-2008, 04:01 AM   #53
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This should clear things up.



I laughed so freakin hard at that man....
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Old 02-28-2008, 06:10 AM   #54
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i consider shred to be anything that is to fast for a guitar player to play with straight down picking
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Old 02-28-2008, 06:31 AM   #55
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shred starts at about 5 billion notes per second
but everyone sucks, so start at 10
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Old 02-28-2008, 08:27 AM   #56
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Munky, I respect your stance and you seem to have a very balanced view, but kindly stop being stubborn. NPS is largely a personal and comparative measure. That is, I know I can play 12 NPS, so then I compare it to the speed at which I want to get to.

NPS, by the way, IS valid musically. It is largely independent of tempo, so when you say you can play 10 NPS to someone, they can tell that you can play 16ths at 150 bpm, or sextuplets at 105 bpm (or whatever). It's generally a more universally applicable term, especially given the intricacies of time signatures, tempo, technique ect.
That said, I understand your point of view. I personally measure my effectiveness while playing at speed against tempo. That is, I can play 12 notes per second, but that has to be matched against the tempo it's most relevant to (180 bpm) in this case.

Man, I understand completely where you're coming from but no-one wants to hear about how applicable something is or the limitations of a certain musical viewpoint. Music is made of many different things and sometimes speed has to be worked on independent of phrasing, and sometimes it has to be worked on in conjunction with phrasing.
Again, I believe you have balanced views on many of the topics that crop up here, but I do find your comments on shred and building speed to be annoying in general.
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Old 02-28-2008, 09:28 AM   #57
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Old 02-28-2008, 01:47 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadassAlex
Munky, I respect your stance and you seem to have a very balanced view, but kindly stop being stubborn. NPS is largely a personal and comparative measure. That is, I know I can play 12 NPS, so then I compare it to the speed at which I want to get to.


1st of all, I appreciate your respectful tone. but I have to ask....whos being stubborn? Im just standing up for what I see as an important point. If anything im trying to help. The stubborn person is the one that goes on doing something even after they realize that it doesnt make sense.

as far as a personal and comparitive measure..... are you saying you cant do that with tempo and note values? because you can you know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MadassAlex
NPS, by the way, IS valid musically. It is largely independent of tempo, so when you say you can play 10 NPS to someone, they can tell that you can play 16ths at 150 bpm, or sextuplets at 105 bpm (or whatever). It's generally a more universally applicable term, especially given the intricacies of time signatures, tempo, technique ect.
That said, I understand your point of view. I personally measure my effectiveness while playing at speed against tempo. That is, I can play 12 notes per second, but that has to be matched against the tempo it's most relevant to (180 bpm) in this case.


Why would you want to play anything independent of tempo? You plan on playing those licks or arpeggios or scale runs ..... within a piece of music right...... that piece of music is in most cases going to have a tempo. Why would a term that measures your speed in a way that is not applicable to music be relevant to a person thats going to play music. Im sorry but that just doesnt make sense.


I honestly dont understand why you wouldnt just work on say... 16th notes at XXX bpm.
You can compare in the same way, and you can apply it musically. No converting, no calculating. You still have your "stat".... but you can apply it musically.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadassAlex
Man, I understand completely where you're coming from but no-one wants to hear about how applicable something is or the limitations of a certain musical viewpoint. Music is made of many different things and sometimes speed has to be worked on independent of phrasing, and sometimes it has to be worked on in conjunction with phrasing.
Again, I believe you have balanced views on many of the topics that crop up here, but I do find your comments on shred and building speed to be annoying in general.


Well im sorry that I annoyed you, and I appreciate your tone. I have to respectfully disagree though. Nothing you said has convinced me that NPS is a musically valid term. I disagree that you ever need to practice speed separate from tempo, and Im sure that the term NPS was NOT created to allow shred guitarists to transcend tempo.

Also are you saying that NPS is more universally accepted.... than note value / tempo ??? what does universally accepted mean? NPS is a term used exclusively by guitarists from a specific genre...... its a minority of people that use it..... its in no way universally accepted, and there is a reason for that. Its only true purpose benefits 1 group of people...... people that need to impress or be impressed by how fast they can play, namely..... shred guitarists. A vast majority of musicians, do NOT use the term. I really think that says alot and its a point worth thinking about. I know it offends some people, but maybe it will wake a few people up. A fair trade off IMO.

BTW, I happen to like alot of shred guitar playing. This term though, IMO represents the bad element of the genre. It perpetuates the fast = good and nothing else matters mind set that unfortunately permeates a genre that otherwise has some really good qualities.
again im sorry if I offended you. Sometimes you have to make a stand on something if you think its important. anyway I've had my rant. thats really all I can do.
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Old 02-28-2008, 09:27 PM   #59
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WEll, I'd consider even 8 NPS average to be shred, because I not only have no idea how fast I play, but because a lot of the time, the shredder isn't shredding at all, and an average of 8 NPS could include the times when they're playing slowly and the times when they go into killzone mode.
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Old 02-28-2008, 09:30 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by woodenbandman
WEll, I'd consider even 8 NPS average to be shred, because I not only have no idea how fast I play, but because a lot of the time, the shredder isn't shredding at all, and an average of 8 NPS could include the times when they're playing slowly and the times when they go into killzone mode.


As far as I'm concerned shred isn't a genre or anything like that; it's fast playing. There's jazz shred, blues shred, shred metal, avant garde shred but it's all just another genre that happens to contain fast playing.

I stand by about 10-11 nps being the cutoff point.
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