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Old 03-28-2008, 04:54 PM   #1
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The Ultimate Speaker Thread

So, we’ve got the Ultimate Tube thread, we’ve got the Ultimate wah thread, now for (a likely poor attempt at) the Ultimate Speaker thread.

Remember, without your reviews and help, this thread is destined for failure, so anybody with any experience of owning any of the speakers listed in here are invited to PM or post reviews of their speakers. If anybody wants a speaker including in this list, just drop me some details and I’ll gladly put it in. So remember, then, that this thread, is a work in progress.

There are many different types of speaker, Alnico magnet, Ceramic magnet (think pickups and you’ll know the difference), Neodymium magnet, Paper cone, Aluminium cone, Hemp cone… There’s so much to list that it’s probably only worth looking at the tonal structures of them at the moment.

I’ll start off with 12” speakers as that’s the most common value for guitar, and branch out into 10”s and 15”s later.

Here’s a brief overview of some of the major brands you will be looking at for guitar speakers:

Celestion
Eminence
Jensen
Weber

Celestion is obviously a well-known, well established UK company with heritage, Eminence is an American company making lots of good competitive speakers at competitive prices, Jensen is an old American company with heritage of making Fender speakers, Weber are a fairly new American company who make lots of different types of speakers.

Speaker Tonality:
It’s generally accepted that Celestion will bear a classic British tonality (midsy, raunchy) thanks to their British style cones, and Jensen will have a more American tonality (smoother, less midrange saturation) from their more American techniques. Eminence and Weber make a lot of different types of speaker of different tonalities.

What should I buy?
Here’s a brief overview of a lot of different modern speaker types:

Celestion series:
G12H
G12M (Greenback)
Vintage 30
Alnico Blue/Gold
“Original Series” (Rocket 50, 70/80 etc)

Eminence series:
Patriot Range (American Voiced speakers of varying tonality)
Red Coat Range (British Voiced speakers of varying tonality)
Legend Range (More budget oriented speakers, usually with slightly smaller magnets than their ‘country-bound’ counterparts

Jensen series:
Vintage reissue Alnico Speakers
Vintage reissue Ceramic Speakers
MOD series.

Weber series:
Signature
Vintage
‘Chicago’ Vintage
British
High-power
Neodymium
Custom Order speakers

Now, it’s all well and good me saying about these speakers and what they do, but REMEMBER, this is just a rough guide, speaker choice for your situation will vary depending on your amp and desired tones.

Celestion Speakers:
Vintage 30:
Before/After Clip of a V30 in a DSL401.
Overview by Gabel:
Basically a copy of the Alnico Blue, but with a ceramic magnet and 60W power rating (the 30 designation is for the fact the speaker is 12", 30cm). But since they lack the Alnico magnet, they don't get the natural compression from it and hence sounds very spike-y and harsh at times. The name is very misleading, since these are not at all very vintage sounding speakers. Recommended in use with amps with low mids or for those who generally those who don't use a lot of mids to cut through the mix.

G12M Greenback:
(reviews needed)
Overview by Gabel:
The world's most famous ceramic speaker. It's famous for being in the old Marshall 1960 cabinets. Has a 35oZ medium amgnet (hence the M desingation). Qutie bright tone, with lots of midrange. These are often paired with British amps such as the Plexi. Does not have a lot of headroom, but are famous for their smooth breakup. Also keep in mind the Heritage version is 25W and not 20W as stated.

G12H:
(reviews needed)
Overview by Gabel:
The G12H is a development of the Greenback, which was out in the larger Marshall 1982 cabinets. These were made when guitarists blew up too many Greenbacks, since they could not handle the power from the 100watt Plexis. The H comes in both a 75HZ lead version, for guitar (70th anniversary) and the 55HZ version (for bass). The 55HZ is generally much fatter in tone. These are a bit cleaner and more defined than the Greenbacks and also have more headroom. Could be desribed as fatter or woodier compared to a Greenback. If you find the Greenback too muddy these are recommended.

G12 Classic Lead:
(reviews needed)
Overview:
The Classic lead is the G12H, adapted with a different voice coil to output 80w and deliver a more striking tone more suitable for leadwork, and it delivers this and is additionally very useful and adaptable to different styles of music.

G12 Alnico Blue/Gold:
(reviews needed)
Overview:
The Alnico Blue was the first ever dedicated guitar speaker, boasting 15w of Alnico-fuelled power. Thanks to the Alnico magnet it has a very very sweet and smooth tone that is the envy of most other speakers. It gained major fame from use in AC30s with such endorsees as Brian May. The speaker adds its own natural compression, smoothness and sweetness, and the Gold is a modern interpretation of the Blue with a subtly different tone, but 50w of power handling.

G12-75T:
(reviews needed)
Overview by Gabel:
G12-75T
This is a very modern and clean sounding speaker. It has a big power rating at 75W and will generally not distort easily. Found in Marshall 1960 cabinets from the 80's and onwards (these used to be called G12-75Ms during the 80's). They have a big dip in the mids and defined treble and bass, leading to a very sweet and clean tone. They also pack quite a lot of bottom end. These are good for modern sounds, if you want a clean sounding speaker that can handle a lot of power.

“Original Series” - IE 70/80, Rocket 50, Tube 10:
(reviews needed)
Overview:
These speakers are Celestion’s lower cost range, with the Rocket 50 boasting 50w of 12” guitar speaker power for about £25 a piece new. These speakers are not nearly as good as the higher end ones, but some, for example the Seventy/80, are stock in things such as Valvetronix amps and Laney combos and are a decent budget option.

Eminence Speakers
(At the moment I will only detail a few of their most popular choices, as there are very very many to review)

Eminence Red Coats:
Private Jack - Eminence’s interpretation of the Greenback. They managed to give it 50w handling, and a similar British vibe to the Greenback. Very nice option in the USA.

Governor - Eminence’s idea of a Celestion Vintage 30. It shares the mid-spike although it seems less intense, and it seems to have a less harsh treble going by reviews.

The Wizard - Cross between the Private Jack and The Governor, giving you more woody vintage bass and a smoother high and more dominant mids, similar in tone to the G12H.

Red Fang - Eminence’s idea of a Celestion Alnico Blue. 30w power handling, Alnico magnet. Very sweet tone, decent price and good handling power. Chimey british vibe and ideal for 1x12 british-style amps - if it will fit (due to the huge magnet it won’t fit into a Laney VC30, for example.)
Red Fang Review, By Gabel:
A decently priced speaker, one of the cheapest Alnico speakers there are. Tone is similar to the chime-y tone of a Celestion Blue. It's quite bright, but never harsh. Not very bass-heavy. Suits vintage voiced amps and if you are looking for vintage sounds. Compresses because of the Alnico magnet and does not have a lot of headroom. When they distort they get a nice syup-y tone. Rated at 30W RMS and 60W peak. Has a large magnet, like all Alnico speakers, meaning it might not fit in some combos.

Patriots:
Black Powder - Bright, aggressive, American. Nice tone, ideal in things such as Hot Rod Deluxes.

Swamp Thang - Big fat syrupy round warm bass, nice definition across the rest of the dynamic range too. Meant to be good for getting a pseudo-15” tone out of a 12” speaker-equipped amp for those SRV kinda moments.

Legends:
Used in Vader cabs and a decent budget choice, these speakers usually boast a slightly smaller magnet than their counterparts, but are still very nice balanced speakers for when a bit of everything is needed in your tone. Many prefer these over the more specialist Celestion or Eminence models.

Jensen:
Vintage Alnico + Ceramic Speakers - These are import reissues of the vintage speakers used in American Fender etc amps, and are decent value for what you get. The P10Rs are meant to be fantastic speakers and the best Alnico 10s you can get for American tone. Amps such as the Bassman RI ship with Jensen speakers.

MOD Series: These are to the vintage series what the Emi Legends are to their country-related series. Slightly lower budget, designed for people upgrading cheap stock speakers, and they seem to be nice in tone. Good value and a nice speaker.

Weber Speakers
Weber make a huge range of speakers from cheap Alncio 6x9”s, to 18” Bass woofers. They are notable for their Jensen-challenging Vintage and Chicago Vintage series, and they also make Alnico Blue clones in the form of their Blue Dogs, which can also be obtained in different sizes. Very nice deals in the US but an unfortunate shipping cost to the UK makes Eminence and Celestion more attractive over there.

Warehouse Guitar Speakers
This is a new cloning company who make clones of the famous Celestion speakers. It is fairly obvious from the model descriptions on their website which is a clone of what Celestion. See the Celestion section for tonal details.

Remember, ask before you buy, I don’t want anybody just reading this and buying a speaker only to find it doesn’t compliment their amp. Remember also, tone is subjective.
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Last edited by MrCarrot : 03-29-2008 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 03-28-2008, 04:55 PM   #2
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Magnet + Cone Varieties
Magnet Types overview:

There are 3 main different types of magnet that are used in modern guitar speakers - Ceramic/Ferrite, AlNiCo, and Neodymium.

AlNiCo:
This is the grandaddy of all guitar speaker magnets. It's a compound of Aluminium, Nickel and Cobalt, and is the weakest of all the magnet structures. It's also the most expensive, due to the high price of Cobalt. It has a trademark tone, smooth and compressed, and due to this natural compression it never gets harsh and is renowned for sounding very sweet. The AlNiCo Blue, Gold, and Eminence Red Fang are all leading AlNiCo speakers.

Ceramic:
Don't be drawn into thinking that AlNiCo is a superior speaker material, as the vast majority of modern speakers are Ceramic and excellent. Most playes used Ceramic speakers in their trademark tones, such as the Greenbacks in Clapton for Fresh Cream, and the G12s in Jimi and Townshend's stacks. Ceramic lacks the natural smoothness and compression of AlNiCo, but offers more headroom and is cheaper, so bigger magnets can be made which give more punch and clarity at a lower price. As an example of different magnet tones, the Vintage 30 is, tonally, a fairly close replica of the AlNiCo Blue. But, due to the Blue having its AlNiCo magnet and the V30 having Ceramic, the Blue is much smoother wheras the V30 does not compress its high-end. This makes the V30 top-end emphasised, although still a good speaker. Not to say Ceramic is inferior, but it has its own tone.

Neodymium:
Neodymium is the latest development, with huge power in a small size. It's a step further in the Ceramic school of thinking, in that it compresses even less and offers even more power at a lower weight. Celestion have developed the G12 Century and the G12 Century Vintage, with Neodymium power, and they weigh half a conventional Ceramic speaker with more power. As a downside, they seem to compress Treble frequencies even less than Ceramic and so can seem toppy and harsh, especially in amps with a lot of top-end naturally. Use, but use with caution.

Speaker Power Ratings (Thanks again Gabe):
Speakers are rated like amps, in RMS. This means that a 50W speaker will take more than 50W, generally a speaker can take up to twice the designated load. The reason for this is so a speaker can handle a 50W amp. So if you have a 1x12 50watt amp, using a 50W speaker is perfectly safe. It's also recommended not too overrate the speakers if you want breakup, so putting in a 75W speaker in a 5W amplifier is generally not a good idea. Since speaker can handle larger effects than stated it's generally safe if you have speakers that are slightly lower wattage than the stated amp, say a 25W Greenback in a 30W combo will not be dangerous.

Breaking-in a speaker (once again, thanks go to Gabel):
For a speaker to sound it's best it needs to be broken in. As you know speakers physically move. When you first put them in they are a bit stale, so breaking them in means to get them to move smoothly. The only way to break in speakers are to play them. Generally a speaker will have a better sounds quality after about 24-100 hours of playing and generally only getting better. The easiest way to get a fast break-in when you have a speaker direct from the box is to crank your amp and play it for about 15 minutes. While this will not break in the speaker fully, this will get it to move faster and generally make further break in much easier. This is also the reason speakers don't sound the best when you get them out of the box and might find them to be a bit sterile.

IMPORTANT - A lot of people tend to break in the speakers using music from say an mp3 player. This is generally not recommended, because of some of the frequencies being outside what the speaker covers. You can hurt your speaker and in the worst case scenario destroy it.
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Last edited by MrCarrot : 03-29-2008 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 03-28-2008, 04:56 PM   #3
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More reviews:

Warehouse Green Beret (greenback clone) review by SRVStrat808:
Tight, warm Bass, punchy Mids, and plenty of Treble that is never shrill, but will give you a lot of note and pick definition. Very vintage in tone. I've not played it against any actual Greenbacks, but i'm extremely pleased with the tone.

Weber 12F150 review by SRVStrat808:
Tight but round Bass, slightly scooped Mids, and a very glassy top end, this speaker is the end all be all of clean tones. However, when overdriven, the lack of midrange gives the speaker a very hollow quality.

Eminence Cannabis Rex (Patriot) Review by ac/dc_freak91 :
The speaker is very full, thick, and warm sounding. Very smooth tonality due to the hemp cone. Virtually no speaker breakup Great for making a harsh sounding amp listenable, and then some! It's also nice and articulate. The highs in this speaker are present, but they sing more than scream. Very nice. Mids are nice and full. Very warm. No scoop in this speaker. They're not overly barky or brittle, either. The bottom end is round, full, and warm. The bottom is nice and tight. Not overly huge or flabby at all, but this is in a closed back cab, which helps. Overall it's a very smooth and balanced speaker.

Eminence Red Fang review by Gabel:
The Red Fang is aimed at being a copy of a Celestion Blue and it gets very close, especially when you consider it being half the price of a Blue. The speaker is very bright and has a lot of treble and upper mids. But since it's an Alnico speaker that compresses, the speaker never gets harsh. Also being an Alnico speaker the speaker does not have a lot of headroom. But the speaker is easily pushed and gets a nice sweet, almost syrup-y overdrive when pushed into distortion. When cranked they can however get a bit muddy, therefore I recommend you to keep your amp at about halfway instead. When it comes to the bass deparetment, this speaker is not at all very bassy and it's not very tight, it has a very loose vintage tone. I would recommend this for blues and classic rock in a British voiced amp. They aren't good for heavy stuff at all, lacking the bottom end and tightness.
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Old 03-28-2008, 04:56 PM   #4
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*reservierung*
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Old 03-28-2008, 04:58 PM   #5
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*reserviert*

That'll do, now post away
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Old 03-28-2008, 04:59 PM   #6
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Well, to help the thread get going, I've been thinking of buying a Vintage 30 for my DSL401. I play a wide variety, but my favorites are AC/DC Guns N' Roses and Metallica. It should be flexable. Does the Vintage 30 fit this bill?
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Old 03-28-2008, 05:01 PM   #7
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wow 5-y post hmm...
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Old 03-28-2008, 05:02 PM   #8
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I'd say the V30 was a fairly good choice for that, it will definitely help tighten the DSL's inherent bottom-end flub and give it a nice kick in the upper-mids. The G12H would be a good choice but is perhaps dangerously underpowered, so the Classic lead would be a good idea also as it is essentially a higher power G12H. The Classic lead will have fatter bass and warmer mids, and be smoother, wheras the V30 will be tighter and a bit punchier.

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Old 03-28-2008, 05:02 PM   #9
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yeah i guess UG could use such thread
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Old 03-28-2008, 05:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCarrot
I'd say the V30 was a fairly good choice for that, it will definitely help tighten the DSL's inherent bottom-end flub and give it a nice kick in the upper-mids. The G12H would be a good choice but is perhaps dangerously underpowered, so the Classic lead would be a good idea also as it is essentially a higher power G12H. The Classic lead will have fatter bass and warmer mids, and be smoother, wheras the V30 will be tighter and a bit punchier.


Hmm righto, tighter and punchier sounds like my kinda sound. How about crunch? I love that somewhat trebly crunchy AC/DC sound.
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Old 03-28-2008, 05:06 PM   #11
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^ Angus Young used JTM45s, with presumably Greenback equipped cabs, but you're working from the other end of the spectrum - the JTM45 is a bright amp anyway, and the Greenbacks are quite warm and woody, wheras the DSL401 is a bit flabby and needs tightening up. Since the V30 has the famous mid-spike and a fair amount of treble, it'd probably help the DSL get a more Angus-y sound than the stock MG speaker...
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Old 03-28-2008, 05:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCarrot
^ Angus Young used JTM45s, with presumably Greenback equipped cabs, but you're working from the other end of the spectrum - the JTM45 is a bright amp anyway, and the Greenbacks are quite warm and woody, wheras the DSL401 is a bit flabby and needs tightening up. Since the V30 has the famous mid-spike and a fair amount of treble, it'd probably help the DSL get a more Angus-y sound than the stock MG speaker...

Alright I think I'll go for the V30 then, thanks for your help!
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Old 03-28-2008, 05:17 PM   #13
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I'm off for the night, feel free to help/criticise, everybody.
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Old 03-28-2008, 05:23 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by MrCarrot


I'm off for the night, feel free to help/criticise, everybody.

Ohhhh whoops, I have one more question I found the Vintage 30 in 8 and 16ohm's, I don't know much about speakers so I don't know which to get? I know the DSL has a 8/16ohm switch and I've always had it on 16 because I know that's what this speaker should be on.
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Old 03-28-2008, 06:22 PM   #15
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on an excellent thread. One day (probably one day far, far in the future), im going to replace my speakers. I was pretty intent on a pair of Jensen P12r's, but now im considering something like a pair of Swamp Thangs.
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Old 03-28-2008, 07:40 PM   #16
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anyone have any experience with the Eminence Man O War?

i was thinking of getting it for my classic 30 for hard rock and thrash metal (boosted with a TS of course), will it be able to handle this?
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Old 03-29-2008, 06:36 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sofubar
Ohhhh whoops, I have one more question I found the Vintage 30 in 8 and 16ohm's, I don't know much about speakers so I don't know which to get? I know the DSL has a 8/16ohm switch and I've always had it on 16 because I know that's what this speaker should be on.
If it's switchable between 8 and 16, either is safe really.

TN: Check out the Eminence tone guide, that's pretty coherent to what the speakers sound like.

^ Again, check the tone guide, I've not had experience with these.



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Old 03-29-2008, 06:53 AM   #18
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Cool you did make the Ultimate Speaker thread!

What would you recommend as a replacement 10inch for my Laney VC15? I know you already said Eminence Ragin Cajun but you know, I fancied asking again.

Also, for the same price which is a better extension for the VC15 - the Laney GS112ve or the Epi VJ cabinet? They're both under £100 but I think the Epi has a better (Eminence) speaker.
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Old 03-29-2008, 07:06 AM   #19
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10 Inches....

Ragin Cajun, yeah I recommended that before, although remember that is a more American-voiced speaker with less mids than British-voiced ones, depends on the tone you're after obviously.

A good alternative if you're after Britishness, would be the new Celestion G10 Greenback, basically a 10" Greenback, all told.

And the Laney cab has a Celestion 70/80, the VJ cab has an OEM custom Lady Luck Eminence.... My personal choice would be to get a quality 10" speaker rather than a mediocre 12" one, and see what you want to do from there.

Also, sofubar, added a link to a V30 swap into a DSL401 clip on youtube with before/after clips. You can really hear how it tightens things up and makes it much nicer.
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Old 03-29-2008, 07:46 AM   #20
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Yeah. If I were to get an ext. cab for the VC I'd probably do a speaker swap anyways.

I need to consider these options when I'm not completely broke and in large debt
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