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Old 09-23-2008, 10:08 PM   #1
toolfan91
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Somethings not right -- UPDATED need opinions

Okay, so I tried to think of a song to write about and I came up with the chorus and the title, but it just doesn't flow well. I know I can do a lot better than this; it seems like either I should not have the lyrics rhyme or my rhymes aren't creative.

The Desperation

And so begins the desperation
With hopeful hearts of expectation
The future one endless burning desire
Will this come before patience expires


Please give me some feedback and advice for how I can start writing lyrics?

Note this is my first attempt at a song please do not flame I am trying to learn.

I noticed my lyrics are more like a failed poetry assignment, how can I make the more 'lyric' like? Thank
UPDATE:
I took some advice from the posts and started over and came up with this, please tell me what you think.

I exhail with wide perception
My mind races steadily
Thoughts lingering, imprisoned inside my mind
Never to be heard, not one deemed kind

Without reasoning, ignoring all exceptions
Fists turned white, yet resting readily
These actions feed a grudge held unintentionally
Ready to forever silence the one that mentions me


Last edited by toolfan91 : 09-24-2008 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:20 PM   #2
j23
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You can try using the structure:

A
B
A
B

IMO, it sounds a lot better when they're structured that way. Also note, not every ending has to rhyme exactly. Try fiddling with the melody too.
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:31 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toolfan91
Please give me some feedback and advice for how I can start writing lyrics?
Please give me the title & artist to 3 songs you like for their lyrics.
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:59 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeoneYouKnew
Please give me the title & artist to 3 songs you like for their lyrics.


The main band is Incubus...
Specific songs:: Nice To Know You, Pardon Me, Anna Molly, Drive

Other random songs I like the lyrics in are:
Hello Tomorrow by Zebrahead
Vindicated by Dashboard Confessional
The Gift by Seether
Fine Again by Seether
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Old 09-24-2008, 01:11 PM   #5
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lol. Anna Molly (anomaly) is a cute play on words.
Incubus breaks a lot of rules in their writing.
perhaps you should, too.

one way to get started in writing
is to examine how some of the songs you like are constructed.
take some cues from what they're doing.
don't copy their style, per se.
just learn from what they've done.

since Drive was very successful, and well known
let's examine it. maybe others will chime in
with additional thoughts on what we can learn from it.






Sometimes, I feel the fear of
uncertainty, stinging clear
And I
I can't help but ask myself how much I'll let the fear
take the wheel and steer.
we start with a freedom of rhythm and phrasing
this is introspection of an emotion (uncertainty)
but it's not stated in an analytical way.
the expression "stinging clear" is fresh
and open to interpretation.
ambiguities are gold.
we have a metaphor with life being a vehicle
and control being who steers/drives


It's driven me before,
and it seems to have a vague,
Haunting mass appeal.
But lately I'm
beginning to find that I
Should be the one behind the wheel.
here, the rhythm and phrasing becomes closer to something conventional.
but there are still pauses and long stressed syllables ending some of the lines.
this bridge from the verse to chorus
starts with the uncertainty having driven him
but now he is starting to make a decision to take control.




Whatever tomorrow brings,
I'll be there
with open arms and open eyes, yeah
Whatever tomorrow brings, I'll be there
I'll be there.
this is incredibly cliche.
at the time this was written,
there were a few other songs on the charts
that used the expression "open arms"
yet it still works beautifully.





So, if I decide to waiver my chance to be one of
the hive
Will I choose water over wine
and hold my own and drive?
second verse continues with metaphor
but this time the hive is the collective
established norms.
not necessarily the "establishment"
more like what everyone else is doing
in this case, maybe even just uncertainty and wandering.
the second metaphor is water giving clarity through self determination.
and wine being the intoxicating comfort of wandering uncertain.


It's driven me before and it seems to be the way
That everyone else gets around.
But lately I'm
beginning to find that when I drive myself my light is found.
now he acknowledges the attempt to take control
the way this is phrased implies a feeling of success pending
but keeps the conclusion open.





Whatever tomorrow brings, I'll be there
with open arms and open eyes,
Whatever tomorrow brings, I'll be there
I'll be there.





Would you choose
water over wine....
hold the wheel and drive
just before we exit
he turns the thought gently toward the reader/listener
your turn for self examination.
but it's not preachy.
he didn't tell you to do anything
he simply asked the question.

Whatever tomorrow brings,
I'll be there
with open arms and open eyes, Yeah
Whatever tomorrow brings, I'll be there..
I'll be there.



so what do you make of this?
my interpretation:
- rhythm doesn't necessarily have to be square and conventional.
- metaphor is an invaluable tool
- you don't need to say things too directly or completely
- leave conclusions open and unresolved. just hint at the direction.
- cliches aren't necessarily bad
- choruses can be extremely simple in structure and content.

your thoughts?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackal58
I release my inner liberal every morning when I take a shit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SK8RDUDE411
I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
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Old 09-24-2008, 04:46 PM   #6
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Since SYK started with Drive, I'me going to continue the thought, this time with Pardon Me.

The song is rediculously loose in terms of structure, and Brandon is at his most dextrious, singing wise. You don't have to go to either of the extremes in the song, but there's a key thing to be learned about when it comes to rhythm.

A decade ago
I never thought I would be
at 23
on the verge
of spontaneous combustion
woe is me

Rhyme was key in the song, because it setup the flagpoles that emphasize the rhythm. The mind naturally puts emphasis on the rhymes because they're familiar (cuz they just happened). Parralelism also plays a role with "on the verge", as it shares the same rhythm as its predecessor.

You'll notice that what comes next isn't really a pre-established rhythm.

I guess that it comes
with the territory
an ominous
landscape of
never ending calamity

However, he continues the rhyme, which continually intrigues the listener.

I don't know if you like rap or not (i don't), but there's something to be learned from it. Rap songs are essentially bare-bones on rhythms, usually using one or two throughout the entire song, and the primary focus is the vocals, which ends up being like a guitar solo. But solos can't rhyme. Rappers use parralellisms to create rhythms that are constantly shifting, but constantly have something to play off of. Brandon Boyd uses the rhymes as a method of getting away with prose-like freedom, whilst still engaging the listener. You'll notice that the parralellism I mentioned in the first part of the song is repeated twice more in the verse (although it's not quite evident on paper, as his singing is what makes it happen). This is plenty of a structure for him to move about.

Try going into a song without a set rhythm. You'll follow a rhythm for a couple lines, plenty of solos do that. But keep the reader intrigued by developing NEW ruts, then creatively sliding out of them.
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Old 09-24-2008, 05:54 PM   #7
toolfan91
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SomeoneYouKnew and Ninja, thanks a lot for your help, so you're saying I should begin writing without a set rhythm, just writing down thoughts/phrases/emotions?

This is what you mean, right?
Thanks a lot both of you
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Old 09-24-2008, 06:42 PM   #8
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Yeah exactly. You're trying to do too much at once for your first piece, your main aim is to get the words on the page first, from there you can edit them to fit what you want, a structure, or by removing words and finding synonyms to help with the rhyme/rhythm.
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Old 09-24-2008, 08:23 PM   #9
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Yeah. When you have a couple lines down, you'll see the opporotunities to make connections, but don't go in with a set rhythm. Some of the first pieces that people post on here are so restricted by a rhythm that they have no room to breathe, so it's important to not have that happen.
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Old 09-24-2008, 10:34 PM   #10
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Okay I tried this and came up with different lyrics. read it if you get a chance its in the first post
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Old 09-24-2008, 11:59 PM   #11
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For a secon...first shot at lyrics you've just taken a huge leap from the original set you put up, a huge leap. You're on the right lines now man, all you can do is just keep writing. When you've finished this piece, post it up in the main S+L forum and let others give you some input.
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Old 09-25-2008, 05:53 AM   #12
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It's definitely on track. The flow is a tad bit jagged because of the larger words, but nothing unworkable, though definitely more difficult.

Then again, these are intricacies that are left for the S&L forum. You've started out right. I'd like to see a full piece from you.
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Old 09-25-2008, 07:31 PM   #13
toolfan91
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Originally Posted by Ninjamonkey767
It's definitely on track. The flow is a tad bit jagged because of the larger words, but nothing unworkable, though definitely more difficult.

Then again, these are intricacies that are left for the S&L forum. You've started out right. I'd like to see a full piece from you.


Yeah I just finished it and posted it up as Parasite if you wanna read it.
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