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Old 04-20-2014, 11:02 PM   #1
457undead
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does the WGS veteran 30 also have good cleans?

So I am replacing my VK112 speaker with a WGS one, and im wondering if the veteran 30 will also sound good with cleans. I do like hard rock but also want to be able to have good cleans when i play soft parts of songs. My main influence is the smashing pumpkins as you all might know lol, but i kind of think that this will be the best wgs speaker for this band. Also, my amp is 50w and the speaker is 60w? does that matter? thanks.
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Old 04-21-2014, 05:27 AM   #2
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That's theoretically a cheap v30 with less pronounced mids, I think it will do fine.
I don't even dislike the cleans, though if you value the cleans as much as the not really cleans I'd get a creamback, that sounds better clean imo.

As for the power ratings, the am's is the power the amp can output, while the cab's is how many power it can handle, so the rule of thumb is using an Xw amp with an Yw cab/speaker where Y is the same or more than X.
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Old 04-21-2014, 05:28 AM   #3
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I don't think anything can make the VKs cleans bad. They are fantastic. To the point of me wanting to go back and get one again.

But my ear for tone is a little strange compared to most people, I think.



Anyway, the Vet30 is fine. The only thing about a speaker that would make an amp's cleans "bad" is if it has an absurdly low wattage/breakup point. But it's generally not really an issue or something that is considered.

Get an EQ if you don't already have one.
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Old 04-21-2014, 08:41 AM   #4
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Yes they are good clean and with distortion.
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Old 04-21-2014, 09:55 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spambot_2
That's theoretically a cheap v30 with less pronounced mids


What kind of music use mids? I don't get it,people talk about cutting mids and a hole bunch of mids. I don't know if I should have mids or not.
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:11 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by 457undead
What kind of music use mids? I don't get it,people talk about cutting mids and a hole bunch of mids. I don't know if I should have mids or not.

The guitar is a mid instrument. Of course you need mids.
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:17 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by MatrixClaw
The guitar is a mid instrument. Of course you need mids.

Then why do bands like Metallica "cut" them?
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:23 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by 457undead
Then why do bands like Metallica "cut" them?


That might be on older recordings of the past, but they certainly don't cut as much mids live and newer recordings definitely have more mids than the past. They thought it sounded cooler I guess. It's really a bad idea as a whole. The band will bury you in a performance setting, because the mids are what get you heard above the band...
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:27 AM   #9
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Well all music uses lows, mids and highs, and some people like them better than some others.
Also, some genres like them better than some others.

Take a metal guitar tone - there's a chance out of two that it will have scooped (cut) mids.
Though the thing reduces clarity and "heardability" 'cause guitars are pretty mid rangey instruments.

Fortunately though guitar amps usually come with equalizers, that even if not really that effective sometimes, are better than anything, with which you can compensate for the speakers' frequency response and shape the sound coming out of the speakers a bit.

Just set your EQ to flat (the knobs at 12:00, you're not really gonna get anything flat from a guitar amp), try setting each knob counterclockwise and then clockwise to see what you like better, and then set the EQ to your taste.
You know, this way you can keep the mids if you like them and not use them if you don't.

But the veteran 30 is cheap and it doesn't really sound bad so by any means get that.
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Old 04-21-2014, 11:46 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by 457undead
Then why do bands like Metallica "cut" them?


So they can have the honor to make best selling, critically acclaimed albums with Lou Reed.
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 457undead
Then why do bands like Metallica "cut" them?



It all depends on context. Guitar is a midrange instrument and that is a fact. If you scoop the living shit out of it you are left with treble fizz and fat bass bloom. Sounds brutal when you are alone but you have to realise that in a band context you are then pretty much competing from the same soundspaces with both bass guitar and drum cymbals, leaving nothing between. Usually its the guitar that gets drowned out live, in albums its the bass guitar.

That doesnt mean you should necessarily crank the mids, that results in honky and overpowering tone. It all depends in what kind of sound you are after and where do you want to sit in the mix (IE rhythm guitar in the background can get away with a little bit of scooping and during the leads mids are noticeably bumped up which brings the guitar upfront to the limelight)


Watch this.



This video is maybe spammed a bit too much here and as a criticism (someone pointed this out in the comments) if you are playing Death Metal you dont want to sound like Periphery and other way around but it does give good advice how to dial a metal tone properly and shows as an example a stereotypical oldschool Death Metal tone (too scooped, too much saturation, too much gain. Sounds brutal but good luck hearing anything in a band) and a more professional modern metal tone, which in this example is bit too low gain/not saturated enough for death metal (especially alone) but in a band with bass and drums along it sings with great clarity and crunch.

Personally I try to find the middle spot, leaning towards the first example because I am afterall an oldschool extreme metal fan (including the delightfully messy sound) and cant stand the superclean modern nonsense and I play (forever) alone.
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaaZeus
It all depends on context. Guitar is a midrange instrument and that is a fact. If you scoop the living shit out of it you are left with treble fizz and fat bass bloom. Sounds brutal when you are alone but you have to realise that in a band context you are pretty much competing from the same soundspace with both bass guitar and drum cymbals, leaving nothing between. Usually its the guitar that gets drowned out.

That doesnt mean you should necessarily crank the mids, that results in honky and overpowering tone. It all depends in what kind of sound you are after and where do you want to sit in the mix (IE rhythm guitar in the background can get away with a little bit of scooping and during the leads mids are noticeably bumped up which brings the guitar upfront to the limelight)


Watch this.



This video is maybe spammed a bit too much here and as a criticism (someone pointed this out in the comments) if you are playing Death Metal you dont want to sound like Periphery and other way around but it does give good advice how to dial a metal tone properly and shows as an example a stereotypical oldschool Death Metal tone (too scooped, too much saturation, too much gain. Sounds brutal but good luck hearing anything in a band) and a more professional modern metal tone, which in this example is bit too low gain/not saturated enough for death metal (especially alone) but in a band with bass and drums along it sings with great clarity and crunch.

Personally I try to find the middle spot, leaning towards the first example because I am afterall an oldschool extreme metal fan (including the delightfully messy sound) and cant stand the superclean modern nonsense and I play (forever) alone.

Thanks but, I don't play death metal. I like alt rock/hard rock and everyone here is mainly death metal, so it's hard to find someone my viewpoint.
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Old 04-21-2014, 12:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 457undead
Thanks but, I don't play death metal. I like alt rock/hard rock and everyone here is mainly death metal.



I used Death metal as an example. Metallica propably kickstarted the light-on-the-midrange thing but Death metal (especially younger ones) took it to extremes and often it is a good example why doing it is generally a bad idea (mostly live) no matter what genre you play.
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Old 04-21-2014, 02:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 457undead
Thanks but, I don't play death metal. I like alt rock/hard rock and everyone here is mainly death metal, so it's hard to find someone my viewpoint.

I hate Death metal, I love classic metal, punk and hardrock V30's and their clones work really well. I personally like the Veteran 30 over the V30 you can buy. the Mesa V30 is a bit different than the "normal" V30 that most company's use but are only available from mesa
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Old 04-21-2014, 07:27 PM   #15
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every music requires some bit of mids if your playing live. even death metal. perhaps it is more scooped than not, but if you have zero mids its very possible your tone is bad or just not hearable at all. people RECORD like that where you have full control over the mix, multi tracking, other stuff, etc.

in a live setting when its striaght from the amp/ pa to the crowd, full band, nah you gotta stand out.
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back to the speaker- yes i own one. its a GREAT speaker. i would say its getting a bad wrap in here. they generally have favorable reviews with the description of a "smoother" v30 or less ice picky which a lot of people really like. it also has comparable quality IMO. for about 70 bones its hard to beat.

i personally think my reaper sounds better. in my 2x12, the reaper is the primary tone, the v30 is kinda the filler behind that. my reaper is a 30 watt though. they have a higher power speaker.

there are plenty of WGS videos online. if you also e-mail WGS with your setup and what tone your after, tell them you are looking to buy, they will e-mail you speaker suggestions. thats how i bought my two and i love em.
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Old Yesterday, 04:08 PM   #16
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I contacted WGS and they recommended the ET-90. what do you think?
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Old Yesterday, 04:12 PM   #17
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The ET90 is a Classic Lead 80 clone and it would work fine. It deff has better cleans than the V30 and it also has more bass
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