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Old 03-22-2016, 03:49 AM   #1
adexder
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Using a 120W halfstack in a bedroom?

So I've been looking at purchasing amps and I've decided that a small practice amp that's say, 5-10 watts isn't enough because they generally don't produce the powerful sounds I'm looking for, and I'm planning on jamming and gigging in the future, so I've been looking at peavey heads and marshall cabs to make a half-stack. My only worry is that they'll be too loud and I'll have to sell them after a couple days.

I've read about how I could set the master volume to low, and many other ways I could make it usable for bedroom usage, but the main idea I've had is to create a closet "amp chamber" with heavy fabric, padded foam, and a mic so I can listen to it in headphones through my computer. The goal of this would be to be able to play with the amp at full volume without getting kicked out of my house. Is this idea feasible?

Thanks!
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Old 03-22-2016, 04:10 AM   #2
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Old 03-22-2016, 04:34 AM   #3
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Besides what T00DEEPBLUE said above...

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I've read about how I could set the master volume to low, and many other ways I could make it usable for bedroom usage, but the main idea I've had is to create a closet "amp chamber" with heavy fabric, padded foam, and a mic so I can listen to it in headphones through my computer


This is a waste of a good amp, IMHO. If you're almost always going to listen to it via headphones, you're better off spending your money on some kind of amp modeling device, either something portable like a Line 6 POD, Korg Pandora, or Boss BR, to one of those nifty rack mounted jobbies.

And if/hen you do start jamming or gigging, I bet you'll find that 20-60w amps are more than capable of doing the job. Firstly, because they're usually loud enough as is. Secondly, because most venues will be micing your amp and/or channeling it through their own system anyway. IOW, you won't have to have an amp capable of generating an F2 tornado.
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Old 03-22-2016, 04:53 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by dannyalcatraz
This is a waste of a good amp, IMHO. If you're almost always going to listen to it via headphones, you're better off spending your money on some kind of amp modeling device, either something portable like a Line 6 POD, Korg Pandora, or Boss BR, to one of those nifty rack mounted jobbies.


Yeah, your points are very valid, but the reason I'd like an actual amp with a chamber to modelling software is because I like the idea of having an actual amp as opposed to a device I'm listening to in headphones. It's true that it can be more expensive as well, but I just like a proper amp more than software. I'm looking less for sound flexibility and more for something I can twist the knobs of and mess with and actually feel.
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Old 03-22-2016, 05:04 AM   #5
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Understood- I waste money on amps*, too.









* well, TBH, only one so far. But I plan on wasting more money on amps in the future.
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Old 03-22-2016, 06:54 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adexder
something I can twist the knobs of and mess with and actually feel.



Still talking about amps?


You can get smaller amps that might fit your situation better. I keep my 40W combo amp quiet enough to keep the neighbours happy whilst maintaining a decent tone but can still turn it up loud enough for when I'm performing. It can easily do a small venue without a microphone.
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Old 03-22-2016, 08:20 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adexder
So I've been looking at purchasing amps and I've decided that a small practice amp that's say, 5-10 watts isn't enough because they generally don't produce the powerful sounds I'm looking for, and I'm planning on jamming and gigging in the future, so I've been looking at peavey heads and marshall cabs to make a half-stack. My only worry is that they'll be too loud and I'll have to sell them after a couple days.

I've read about how I could set the master volume to low, and many other ways I could make it usable for bedroom usage, but the main idea I've had is to create a closet "amp chamber" with heavy fabric, padded foam, and a mic so I can listen to it in headphones through my computer. The goal of this would be to be able to play with the amp at full volume without getting kicked out of my house. Is this idea feasible?

Thanks!


1) Let me save you a lot of hassle - there is no way you will be running any amp, even a 5 watt tube amp, at full volume in your bedroom without it being ferociously loud AND sounding atrocious.

2) the best solution for bedroom practice is a small digital amp, like a YamahaTHR or Roland Micro Cube because they sound half decent at very low volumes. Most tube amps sound terrible at very low levels, because of the way they constructed. On a related note, digital amps sound terrible loud and tube amps sound amazing loud.

3) If you plan on using headphones, just use Bias amp sim with a good reverb plugin - it will sound better than a poorly miced amp in a closet and for practicing it is really ideal because you can really control what you are hearing, especially when playing along with a tune or some tracks.
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Old 03-22-2016, 08:25 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by T00DEEPBLUE


^^Yep.

I get a kickass TV-level tone out of my 6505+ (60 watts, running a 4 X 12 cab with obnoxiously-efficient Eminence speakers). It wouldn't make any difference if it were the 120 watt version either. Just use an overdrive to boost it and it will sound good at quiet volumes, and make sure you're right in front of the speakers. That's about it. Even turned to barely audible, my real 6505 still beat the pants off my Vypyr 30 modeler, set to the 6505 mode. It is a myth that modelers sound better at lower volumes.

If your neighbors are so fussy they can't handle even TV volumes, then I would suggest a modeler with a good set of headphones.

Buy the amp you want for the tone you want. It is not 1970 anymore -- amps have volume knobs that work while still getting the tone you want.
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Old 03-22-2016, 10:19 AM   #9
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Just ask yourself this, how many people use "a closet "amp chamber" with heavy fabric, padded foam, and a mic so I can listen to it in headphones through my computer."

Why do you think that is?
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Old 03-22-2016, 10:39 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by reverb66
Most tube amps sound terrible at very low levels, because of the way they constructed. On a related note, digital amps sound terrible loud and tube amps sound amazing loud.


This is absolute and utter horseshit.

Read the article linked above, then come back and let's discuss this...
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Old 03-22-2016, 10:49 AM   #11
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Tube amps really don't sound that great quiet, there's not enough crunch. I'm not saying they're terrible but there's a certain point where you get that tone you want through pushing the volume.

As for the amp situation, I use a 120 watt half stack in my bedroom and luckily I can turn it up pretty fucking loud. Here's what I have to say: Once you actually find people to play with, get one. I needed one because I was in a band and my little amp wasn't doing it. Plus, do you know how much of a bitch it is trying to move a half stack? You need something like a Peavey Vypyr 30 or something
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Old 03-22-2016, 11:07 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PiercedBand
Tube amps really don't sound that great quiet, there's not enough crunch. I'm not saying they're terrible but there's a certain point where you get that tone you want through pushing the volume.


Once again, as a general statement that's simply not true, although it's an all too common and pervasive myth.
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Old 03-22-2016, 11:08 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adexder
So I've been looking at purchasing amps and I've decided that a small practice amp that's say, 5-10 watts isn't enough because they generally don't produce the powerful sounds I'm looking for, and I'm planning on jamming and gigging in the future, so I've been looking at peavey heads and marshall cabs to make a half-stack. My only worry is that they'll be too loud and I'll have to sell them after a couple days.

I've read about how I could set the master volume to low, and many other ways I could make it usable for bedroom usage, but the main idea I've had is to create a closet "amp chamber" with heavy fabric, padded foam, and a mic so I can listen to it in headphones through my computer. The goal of this would be to be able to play with the amp at full volume without getting kicked out of my house. Is this idea feasible?

Thanks!

Spend $100 for a used Pod and get monstrously huge guitar tone in your headphones that sounds like a wall of Marshalls at Glastonbury. Done.

These days 120w tube amps are effectively obsolete. Even touring world stages every venue has a huge sound system to provide all the dynamic headroom you could ever need or want. Around 30-50 watts will always get it done in a tube amp in this century.
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Old 03-22-2016, 11:27 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Arby911
This is absolute and utter horseshit.

Read the article linked above, then come back and let's discuss this...


Those are some pretty solid arguments - hard to argue against that. If only I hadn't been using every iteration of guitar amp and technology over the last 20 + years and know exactly what I'm talking about from actual experience...

I'll clarify since you clearly need an education :

As a general rule, tube amps sound better at loud volumes - they each have a "sweetspot". Even modern tube amps with master volumes, like my Mesa Boogie Lonestar Special, do not perform anywhere near their tone potential at bedroom volumes. If your trying to practice without bothering someone in the next room, it's not going to happen with that amp, and it's a 30 watt 1x12.

Digital amps typically sound terrible at jamming or gigging volumes, which is why tube amps still even exist despite how costly and difficult they are to maintain. At bedroom levels, digital amps perform very well. I can practice with my Roland Micro Cube and it will sound decent and barely register in the next room, because it pushes zero bass ( I'll let you research why this is relevant) and you don't need to reach a sweetspot, like with a tube amp. Does that mean the Micro Cube is anywhere near as great as the Mesa??? No, it isn't, but when you need to play at very low volumes it doesn't matter, because you aren't getting anything special from a tube amp at those levels.

For practicing in a bedroom quietly, a tube amp is a bad choice. Micing a tube amp in a closet is actually an even more terrible choice because it will sound terrible regardless and still be insanely loud.

So... which part of what I'm saying here is wrong?

Last edited by reverb66 : 03-22-2016 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 03-22-2016, 11:52 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by reverb66
Those are some pretty solid arguments - hard to argue against that. If only I hadn't been using every iteration of guitar amp and technology over the last 20 + years and know exactly what I'm talking about from actual experience...

I'll clarify since you clearly need an education :

As a general rule, tube amps sound better at loud volumes - they each have a "sweetspot". Even modern tube amps with master volumes, like my Mesa Boogie Lonestar Special, do not perform anywhere near their tone potential at bedroom volumes. If your trying to practice without bothering someone in the next room, it's not going to happen with that amp, and it's a 30 watt 1x12.

Digital amps typically sound terrible at jamming or gigging volumes, which is why tube amps still even exist despite how costly and difficult they are to maintain. At bedroom levels, digital amps perform very well. I can practice with my Roland Micro Cube and it will sound decent and barely register in the next room, because it pushes zero bass ( I'll let you research why this is relevant) and you don't need to reach a sweetspot, like with a tube amp. Does that mean the Micro Cube is anywhere near as great as the Mesa??? No, it isn't, but when you need to play at very low volumes it doesn't matter, because you aren't getting anything special from a tube amp at those levels.

For practicing in a bedroom quietly, a tube amp is a bad choice. Micing a tube amp in a closet is actually an even more terrible choice because it will sound terrible regardless and still be insanely loud.

So... which part of what I'm saying here is wrong?


Pretty much all of it. And you can quit playing the "I've been doing this a long time" game since I'll see your 20 and raise you another 20...

Read the article linked above and then we can discuss.

Suffice it to say that your anecdotal belief isn't salient. You appear to think that tube amps have some mystical property that overcomes the laws of physics. I'm here to tell you it ain't so.

And the belief that "digital" amps automagicaly sound bad at high volume is frankly amusing.
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Old 03-22-2016, 12:07 PM   #16
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Nothing wrong with having an iso speaker cab. Might want to look it up online, I think there's a $300 one from Jet City which should do for a start.
It is not a waste of amp as you can mic it and achieve much better results recording than you woukd witg a processor.
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Old 03-22-2016, 12:19 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Arby911
Pretty much all of it. And you can quit playing the "I've been doing this a long time" game since I'll see your 20 and raise you another 20...

Read the article linked above and then we can discuss.

Suffice it to say that your anecdotal belief isn't salient. You appear to think that tube amps have some mystical property that overcomes the laws of physics. I'm here to tell you it ain't so.

And the belief that "digital" amps automagicaly sound bad at high volume is frankly amusing.


Digital amps don't magically sound bad at high volumes, they just sound bad, in comparison with a tube amp - which is why nearly major act and every major player still uses tube amps to play live. Is it a conspiracy? Is the entire tube amp market a sham? Are all those guitarists and engineer's simply fooled? Or.... are you dead wrong.

The two exceptions to this rule are Fractal Axe FX and Kemper, neither of which are "digital amps", and neither of which are really used all that much live yet. I've heard two professional shows using the Axe FX - Megadeth and a Pink Floyd Tribute from Britain. Megadeth sounded great and the Pink Floyd Tribute was a disaster from a tone standpoint - the weakness of the technology really stands out for organic classic type tones, but for metal it was great.

We're discussing bedroom practice and when discussing " digital amps" we mean the actual digital amps, with a speaker etc., like a Roland Cube, Line 6 or a Peavey Vypr etc., not $2500 rackmount studio amp simulators.

I don't know what your level of experience is or how capable your ears are, but not acknowledging the basic things I'm saying here, which are common knowledge amongst guitarists and sound engineers all over the world, is a bit bizarre.

I'm trying to help the OP, because I have experience dealing with amps, sims, and digital amps and keeping noise down. If he wants to use a tube amp in his closet, he's better off with a small digital amp or sims using headphones, because volume is the key to getting good tone from a tube amp, but that doesn't apply to digital.
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Old 03-22-2016, 12:34 PM   #18
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The Megadeth record was all tracked via Axe Fx and sounds horrendous, that's tge worst production I've heard from them in a long time.
Then I know Jennifer Batten toured with Boss GT-10 supporting Jeff Beck and sounded great. So, its all a matter of what works for tge artist.
As a studio engineer on the whole I see a lot more digital modeling disasters and rarely a win, as opposed to tube amps which are usually great out of tge box with a SM57 or Sennheiser or whatever in front.
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Old 03-22-2016, 12:39 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by diabolical
The Megadeth record was all tracked via Axe Fx and sounds horrendous, that's tge worst production I've heard from them in a long time.
Then I know Jennifer Batten toured with Boss GT-10 supporting Jeff Beck and sounded great. So, its all a matter of what works for tge artist.
As a studio engineer on the whole I see a lot more digital modeling disasters and rarely a win, as opposed to tube amps which are usually great out of tge box with a SM57 or Sennheiser or whatever in front.


I wasn't referring to a recording, I was referring to a concert ( they played Rust in Peace in its entirety)- they ran the Axe units through power amps and miced speakers - in that context it worked very well.
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Old 03-22-2016, 12:50 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by reverb66
Digital amps don't magically sound bad at high volumes, they just sound bad, in comparison with a tube amp - which is why nearly major act and every major player still uses tube amps to play live. Is it a conspiracy? Is the entire tube amp market a sham? Are all those guitarists and engineer's simply fooled? Or.... are you dead wrong.

The two exceptions to this rule are Fractal Axe FX and Kemper, neither of which are "digital amps", and neither of which are really used all that much live yet. I've heard two professional shows using the Axe FX - Megadeth and a Pink Floyd Tribute from Britain. Megadeth sounded great and the Pink Floyd Tribute was a disaster from a tone standpoint - the weakness of the technology really stands out for organic classic type tones, but for metal it was great.

We're discussing bedroom practice and when discussing " digital amps" we mean the actual digital amps, with a speaker etc., like a Roland Cube, Line 6 or a Peavey Vypr etc., not $2500 rackmount studio amp simulators.

I don't know what your level of experience is or how capable your ears are, but not acknowledging the basic things I'm saying here, which are common knowledge amongst guitarists and sound engineers all over the world, is a bit bizarre.

I'm trying to help the OP, because I have experience dealing with amps, sims, and digital amps and keeping noise down. If he wants to use a tube amp in his closet, he's better off with a small digital amp or sims using headphones, because volume is the key to getting good tone from a tube amp, but that doesn't apply to digital.


Have you even bothered to read the article?

I'm guessing no, you're very secure in your opinion, and insecure in examining anything that might contradict it.

In that case, have a nice day, your preferred misinformation won't change my life at all.

FWIW, I love tube amps, own several and have played probably 3x as many as I've owned. I just don't blindly accept the fantasies promulgated about them. Also, you keep using "digital" as if it had meaning? The amps you reference aren't "digital", as every one of them has an analog power amp section. What they do have are digital preamps. To the best of my knowledge, there's no guitar amp in production that's entirely digital?

Of course if it's all solid state amplification that you're railing against, that's even more amusing.
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