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Old 10-25-2014, 09:31 AM   #1
TylerKSchrute
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Question Few questions about Tone I can't seem to answer

Hi, I play through a 5150 and marshall 4x12. I recently thought it's time to make a pedal board and further enhance my tone. I found a SKB STAGE 5 pro pedal board on craigslist, anyone have any thoughts and opinions of this? I play in a high gain, low end band with a lot of distortion. Would I lose a lot of low end through this board? What are good suggestions to run through it? I also am into bands such as Full Of Hell, Nails, Harms Way, ETC. Basically most bands on Deathwish recorded by Kurt Ballou. In this thought I went out and purchased an HM-2. I can not make the damn thing sound close to that. I understand bass is a lot of the tone. But how can I run the hm-2 to get a huge live sound like they have. Should my other guitarist run it too, run without it for mid clarity? Should I put it in the FX loop and use my amps distortion? I am after a very thick full sound. But also with room for the band to cut through as well.

ALSO, I had just purchased an EQ pedal. With all said in mind, how should I intend on using this pedal?

Who has experience with the OCD FullTone? Do you like it? What is it's main purpose in the signal chain?

Thank you for your time and hopefully I can get some knowledge out of this.
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Old 10-25-2014, 09:50 AM   #2
Rhoads_1096
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Ive got a Fulltone OCD and I love it but I'm in a much different situation than you... I'm running either American Deluxe Strat or a Trad LP through an AC30. I primarily use it with the volume up and just a bit of drive and I can get a nice bluesy tone and when the drives up I can get it into hard rock/ozzy territory with my LP. Its just probably not what you're looking for and if I was you I'd go for more of a tubescreamer esque pedal for a boost as the OCD has a looser low end and a biting high end/mid range
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Old 10-25-2014, 10:11 AM   #3
TylerKSchrute
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Originally Posted by Rhoads_1096
Ive got a Fulltone OCD and I love it but I'm in a much different situation than you... I'm running either American Deluxe Strat or a Trad LP through an AC30. I primarily use it with the volume up and just a bit of drive and I can get a nice bluesy tone and when the drives up I can get it into hard rock/ozzy territory with my LP. Its just probably not what you're looking for and if I was you I'd go for more of a tubescreamer esque pedal for a boost as the OCD has a looser low end and a biting high end/mid range


Hi, I have the ts-9 but it quickly found it's way off my pedal chain with it's low end chopping. It makes all my palm mutes sound too thin and weak. I was interested in the OCD Fulltone primarily for the low+mid range clarity. Do you think it'd work just as well as a boost for the HM-2?

Edit :: I wouldn't be using the Fulltone as a means of distortion in any way. Just to use it for it's tonal properties.
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Old 10-25-2014, 10:19 AM   #4
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Put your hm-2 and your EQ pedal in the loop. The settings on your hm-2 are critical when used in this manner. Run the distortion knob all the off, or just barely on. You'll get all your gain from the amp. Turn the pedal' s bass knob all the way up. The higher frequency knob should be set anywhere from 2 o'clock to 4 o'clock. Think of that as your "cut through the mix" knob. Finally, adjust the pedal' s level simply to match the volume of your lead channel. I use this setup through my 6505+ for a death metal sound and it absolutely SLAYS. I don't run a boost pedal up front for this tone, but rather just turn up the amp' s preamp gain to 5 or 6. Use your EQ pedal to further tailor your tone. In this setup (which is not the usual way people use distortion pedals) the hm-2 just thickens the tone and provides its trademark chainsaw tone, but retains the tightness of the amp. I don't know why this works on a 5150/6505, but it does.
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Old 10-25-2014, 10:29 AM   #5
TylerKSchrute
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KailM
Put your hm-2 and your EQ pedal in the loop. The settings on your hm-2 are critical when used in this manner. Run the distortion knob all the off, or just barely on. You'll get all your gain from the amp. Turn the pedal' s bass knob all the way up. The higher frequency knob should be set anywhere from 2 o'clock to 4 o'clock. Think of that as your "cut through the mix" knob. Finally, adjust the pedal' s level simply to match the volume of your lead channel. I use this setup through my 6505+ for a death metal sound and it absolutely SLAYS. I don't run a boost pedal up front for this tone, but rather just turn up the amp' s preamp gain to 5 or 6. Use your EQ pedal to further tailor your tone. In this setup (which is not the usual way people use distortion pedals) the hm-2 just thickens the tone and provides its trademark chainsaw tone, but retains the tightness of the amp. I don't know why this works on a 5150/6505, but it does.


What do you mean by adjusting the pedals level to match the volume of my lead channel? As in just adjust the level until they mix well?

Does this hurt my head at all? I heard running a distortion pedal through the FX loop could be harmful to the head.
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Old 10-25-2014, 10:51 AM   #6
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^^What I meant was adjust the hm-2's level so that your lead channel has the same volume whether the pedal is on or off. I have been doing this for a long time with no issues to my amp. All it's really doing is changing the coloration of the tone, since the pedal's gain is all the way off (or close to it). The Hm-2 naturally gives it a deeper, heavier sound with a lot more low-end. You can enhance that with your EQ pedal. I also tend to cut the 'middle' mids on my 10-band in favor of a boost to the lower mids and upper mids.

I have tried to run my Hm-2 in front of the 6505+ but have never achieved a satisfactory result that way. It brings out even more of the chainsaw character as heard on Entombed's Left Hand Path, but the riff tracking on palm-mutes is terrible -- just way too loose and jumbled.

With my loop method -- it'll track your playing just as accurately as the 5150/6505 naturally does, but it'll add a 'massive' brutal thickening effect as well.
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Old 10-25-2014, 11:37 AM   #7
TylerKSchrute
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KailM
^^What I meant was adjust the hm-2's level so that your lead channel has the same volume whether the pedal is on or off. I have been doing this for a long time with no issues to my amp. All it's really doing is changing the coloration of the tone, since the pedal's gain is all the way off (or close to it). The Hm-2 naturally gives it a deeper, heavier sound with a lot more low-end. You can enhance that with your EQ pedal. I also tend to cut the 'middle' mids on my 10-band in favor of a boost to the lower mids and upper mids.

I have tried to run my Hm-2 in front of the 6505+ but have never achieved a satisfactory result that way. It brings out even more of the chainsaw character as heard on Entombed's Left Hand Path, but the riff tracking on palm-mutes is terrible -- just way too loose and jumbled.

With my loop method -- it'll track your playing just as accurately as the 5150/6505 naturally does, but it'll add a 'massive' brutal thickening effect as well.


Thanks! I'll definitely give this a try, it seems to be more of what I'm going for. A tame hm-2 deep sound. Maybe i'll throw an OCD Fulltone in front of the amp and see what tones I can get out of it. Experimentation is always key. Thanks, KailM!
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Old 10-25-2014, 12:09 PM   #8
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^^No problem! Keep in mind your 5150 is slightly different than my 6505+ (112 model, modded into a head) -- but they are close enough in design I suspect they would react similarly to this method. Just use my settings as a starting point. I came across this method by simply trying everything I could to get the sound I'd heard on lots of Swedish death metal records, and I had almost given up (the hm-2 just didn't seem to play well with the 6505+). Then when I tried it in the effects loop it came to life! It absolutely nails the tone on At the Gates' Slaughter of the Soul album -- but perhaps an even clearer, tighter tone than that.

And yes, play around with your OCD pedal as well. Keep in mind, with it boosted in front of the preamp, you'll probably need to turn the preamp gain on the amp down a bit again.
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Last edited by KailM : 10-25-2014 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 10-25-2014, 12:18 PM   #9
TylerKSchrute
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KailM
^^No problem! Keep in mind your 5150 is slightly different than my 6505+ (112 model, modded into a head) -- but they are close enough in design I suspect they would react similarly to this method. Just use my settings as a starting point. I came across this method by simply trying everything I could to get the sound I'd heard on lots of Swedish death metal records, and I had almost given up (the hm-2 just didn't seem to play well with the 6505+). Then when I tried it in the effects loop it came to life! It absolutely nails the tone on At the Gates' Slaughter of the Soul album -- but perhaps an even clearer, tighter tone than that.

And yes, play around with your OCD pedal as well. Keep in mind, with it boosted in front of the preamp, you'll probably need to turn the preamp gain on the amp down a bit again.


Yeah, I'll definitely keep that in mind, thanks. My other guitarist has a 6505+ so I might just make him trade with me for shows if I can't find this tone viable with a 5150 amp but I should be able to.
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Old 10-25-2014, 02:01 PM   #10
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^^Post back when you've had a chance to try it. As far as I'm aware, nobody else does this with an Hm-2 + 5150, that I've heard anyway.
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Old 10-27-2014, 02:01 PM   #11
TylerKSchrute
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I tried it out today. I definitely like it more in the effects loop than in front of the amp. It keeps it's clarity and feel without changing the tone too much. What do you mean by mid mids on the eq pedal? Where would that be?

Also I've noticed that when turning up the amp real loud, it starts to distort after a certain volume point. Should I roll back on the level on the hm-2 or just raise the level? I'd just keep trying it but now my neighbors are home so I can't really keep it at that volume haha. I'm going to GC now to checkout if they have any OCD Fulltones.
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Old 10-27-2014, 02:43 PM   #12
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I understand that "mid mids" would mean that you keep the mids flat on the eq, not boosted, not cut.

And of course it starts distorting at a certain volume, that is what tube amps do If you want the amp to distort more, raise the level of the pedal. If you wan't the amp to stay cleane, roll it back.

If you're running the hm-2 on the effects loop, you should probably keep the level so that it matches the amp.
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Old 10-27-2014, 04:09 PM   #13
TylerKSchrute
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I keep the level to match the amp, but still at a higher volume the tone I had at a lower volume just goes away and is replaced with gross mud and becomes just noise. Is there anyway to use the hm-2 in the FX loop and keep the tone that I got with it that I enjoyed at a higher volume?
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Old 10-27-2014, 04:43 PM   #14
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Hmmm....Is it getting muddy when you turn the post-gain knob up (on the amp)? It'll definitely start sounding bad if you're turning the pedal's level knob way up. And you're making sure the HM-2's distortion knob is at zero?

As for the EQ pedal, which one do you have?

By "middle" mids, I meant around the 500hz mark. My MXR 10-band has a 500 hz slider which I cut by 6db. I don't know why, but it just sounds harsh and nasally if I don't cut out that frequency a bit. Technically, 'mids' are anywhere from 125hz (lower-mids/high bass) to 4 khz (upper mids/low highs).

I boost my 125hz slider a bit because that brings out the "thump" that us metalheads know and love. I leave my 250hz slider around zero (neither a boost nor a cut). It's that 500hz slider that I find annoying if it isn't cut a little. The 1khz I leave pretty much at zero (neither a boost nor a cut), and then start boosting the upper mids a little above that range to maintain the tone's ability to cut through the mix.

This is all, of course tailored to my rig specifically and my tonal preferences. But try it.
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Old 10-27-2014, 11:35 PM   #15
TylerKSchrute
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KailM
Hmmm....Is it getting muddy when you turn the post-gain knob up (on the amp)? It'll definitely start sounding bad if you're turning the pedal's level knob way up. And you're making sure the HM-2's distortion knob is at zero?

As for the EQ pedal, which one do you have?

By "middle" mids, I meant around the 500hz mark. My MXR 10-band has a 500 hz slider which I cut by 6db. I don't know why, but it just sounds harsh and nasally if I don't cut out that frequency a bit. Technically, 'mids' are anywhere from 125hz (lower-mids/high bass) to 4 khz (upper mids/low highs).

I boost my 125hz slider a bit because that brings out the "thump" that us metalheads know and love. I leave my 250hz slider around zero (neither a boost nor a cut). It's that 500hz slider that I find annoying if it isn't cut a little. The 1khz I leave pretty much at zero (neither a boost nor a cut), and then start boosting the upper mids a little above that range to maintain the tone's ability to cut through the mix.

This is all, of course tailored to my rig specifically and my tonal preferences. But try it.


I too have the mxr 10 band. and it starts getting muddy when I turn up the post gain on the amp, yes. The tone I have at bedroom volume is exactly how I want it. Then I turn up the post gain to get it to drummer / practice volume. And it just goes to shit. Any suggestions for this? Yes the distortion knob on the hm-2 is at zero. I turn the level up to match the amp's volume with the pedal bypassed.

EDIT :: just incase for future question. My cab is a 1960 Marshall cab. With the original 5150 head with new tubes and power tubes ( whatever the little ones are called )

I'm running an LTD EC-1000 CTM into it.

I really hope I can maintain the tone I have at a slightly lower volume.

Do you suggest a decimator to throw into the pedal chain to lower the feedback?

Last edited by TylerKSchrute : 10-27-2014 at 11:36 PM.
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Old 10-28-2014, 08:25 AM   #16
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^^There may be too much bass at higher volumes. As volume goes up, you don't need as much bass for the same tone you had at lower volumes. Try lowering the bass on your amp's EQ first, then put it back and try reducing bass on the HM-2. The HM is a very bassy pedal in the first place, could be you're just getting too much as you turn the volume up.

As for a Decimator, that really depends on how much noise you're getting while all strings are muted. Feedback really ought to be controlled by your muting, not a pedal.
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Old 10-28-2014, 10:17 AM   #17
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Even while muting my strings it just squeaks. But yes let me try that and I'll get back to you later on, that may be the cause. I'll as you said try the amp eq first then start to roll back on the HM-2 and if anything I can try to lower the bass frequencies with the mxr 10 band as well. I'll get back to you!
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Old 10-28-2014, 11:22 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by KailM
^^There may be too much bass at higher volumes. As volume goes up, you don't need as much bass for the same tone you had at lower volumes. Try lowering the bass on your amp's EQ first, then put it back and try reducing bass on the HM-2. The HM is a very bassy pedal in the first place, could be you're just getting too much as you turn the volume up.

As for a Decimator, that really depends on how much noise you're getting while all strings are muted. Feedback really ought to be controlled by your muting, not a pedal.


I am back! So i tried everything. And I couldn't still get it to sound good at high volume. I switched it back to the front before the amp and I think I'm liking the tone I'm getting with the mxr in the loop to tighten it. I used it on a lead channel with the preamp gain around 3-4. Lowered bass on the amp eq, and 6/6 for mids and highs.

I'll be trying to run the hm-2 in the fx loop again once I receive my decimator in the mail next week.
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