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Old 10-03-2008, 10:32 PM   #1
ratm92
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Arrow Byzantine scale

so i am writing a song for a school project and i was planning on having it be a satriani esque guitar instrumental with some guitars and some distortion and some effects and blah blah....BUT

i was bored and started improvising random scales, and i started playing in E byzantine and its fricken awesome. im thinking of making a really clean exotic song out of it and maybe even throwing in some enigmatic. i was just wondering if someone here could give me some background information on the byzantine scale and its typical use, time sigs, and some history since after all it is a school project.


thanks a lot guys
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Old 10-03-2008, 10:40 PM   #2
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...i am SO not theory oriented...
ive never heard of that scale in my LIFE
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Old 10-03-2008, 10:43 PM   #3
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good stuff...

i like the part where it refers it to a phrygian dominant scale. the solo to YYZ is in B Spanish Phrygian, which im studying as of a month ago..
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Old 10-03-2008, 10:43 PM   #4
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Awhatnow scale?

i know many scales but that one i have never heard of!
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Old 10-03-2008, 10:44 PM   #5
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as for your question, which i see now lol, here is how its made and a little history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_scale
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Old 10-03-2008, 11:35 PM   #6
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Great scale, has a very... Odd sound to it.
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Old 10-04-2008, 12:14 AM   #7
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Bela Bartok used it here and there. As have I, in an inferior fashion.
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Old 10-04-2008, 12:37 AM   #8
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Just throwin it out there, you could probably mix in Phrygian Dominant (1, b2, 3, 4, 5, b6, b7) since it's so close to Byzantine. If it's going to be Satriani-esque then pitch-axis like that will be your best bet.
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Old 10-04-2008, 06:52 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metal4all
Just throwin it out there, you could probably mix in Phrygian Dominant (1, b2, 3, 4, 5, b6, b7) since it's so close to Byzantine. If it's going to be Satriani-esque then pitch-axis like that will be your best bet.



can you possibly elaborate a little on pitch axis there?



also maybe some suggestions about a backing chord progression with this type of scale being used
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Old 10-04-2008, 07:14 AM   #10
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I really love Bela Bartok. Could he actually play, or was he just a composer (it sounds insulting the way Ive said "just" a composer, but thats definatley NOT how I meant it)

So let me get this straight, Byzantine, Double Harmonic, Gypsy and Arabic are all the same scale.

Ive firstly heard of it as the Double Harmonic: 1 b2 3 4 5 b6 7

On freakguitar Arabic was listed as a Whole-Half from memory.

And people reffering to Phrygian as Spanish Phrygian and Phrygian Major, I can understand Phrygian Major, and Phrygian Dominant, especially Phrygian Dominant, because it reflects the scale construction, Dominant scale being a scale with a Maj 3rd and Minor 7th.

So many different names, and most of them are about 7 names for the same thing : (

Tbh: Gypsy/Byzantine/Double Harmonic seems just a Phrygian Dominant with a raised LT.

If your going to construct a progression from it, which I dont know how possible considering you would be trying to make the progression resolve to a Dominant 7 for your I which contains the tri-tone, and WANTS to resolve.

Anyway, Im open for anything.
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Old 10-04-2008, 10:02 AM   #11
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^ well, don't forget there's more things up your sleeve than just harmonic resolution. Melodic contour, rhythmic devices, special effects/instrumentation can make all the difference.

Here's what I did in the last 5 minutes because I don't have owt better to be doing.
Attached Files
File Type: zip byzantine.zip (1.3 KB, 40 views)
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Old 10-04-2008, 01:16 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratm92
can you possibly elaborate a little on pitch axis there?



also maybe some suggestions about a backing chord progression with this type of scale being used
Sweet 'n simply put: Pitch axis is when you use a pitch, or note, as an axis, or pivot point. You use one note to transfer to different scales. You basically play whatever the hell you want as long as you resolve to the pivot tone. Example: Dmin - Dsus - Dmaj - D7 - Dmin and use the respective D scales over them. Satch loves that kind of stuff. He'll do stuff like a fast ascending lick in major and then descend in lydian (not a specific example, just a general idea).
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Old 10-04-2008, 03:26 PM   #13
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That byzantine scale sounds similar to a harmonic minor mode?
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Old 10-04-2008, 04:45 PM   #14
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Thats because it is similar...
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Old 10-04-2008, 05:12 PM   #15
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funny guy
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Old 10-04-2008, 05:15 PM   #16
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Hey, you asked. GIGO.
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Old 10-04-2008, 06:00 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metal4all
Sweet 'n simply put: Pitch axis is when you use a pitch, or note, as an axis, or pivot point. You use one note to transfer to different scales. You basically play whatever the hell you want as long as you resolve to the pivot tone. Example: Dmin - Dsus - Dmaj - D7 - Dmin and use the respective D scales over them. Satch loves that kind of stuff. He'll do stuff like a fast ascending lick in major and then descend in lydian (not a specific example, just a general idea).



got it, thanks man. i was aware of that technique but apparently didnt know it by name
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Old 10-04-2008, 10:41 PM   #18
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Might sound good in an instrumental song...

But how would you write a singing melody with it? Avoiding 1 augmented second interval in minor scales is sort of hard, but 2 augmented second intervals? Keep in mind the human voices naturally finds augmented second intervals hard to sing. Theres a few jazz singers out there that have no trouble with this, but also keep in mind catchy melodies are hummable/singable.

Resolving wouldnt be that hard though. Personally, I would call this scales a phrygian dominant with a raised seventh and use it to resolve modal phrygian dominant progressions. Just my two cents.
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Old 10-04-2008, 10:45 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonofthenight
But how would you write a singing melody with it?
My idea is that you use the Byzantine Scale for the instrumental sections, and Phrygian for the parts that contain vocals.
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Old 10-04-2008, 10:54 PM   #20
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i wasnt planning on it having vocals, so that wouldnt be a problem
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