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Old 01-01-2009, 07:42 AM   #41
demonofthenight
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^Keeping in mind modal progressions (these days) are generally simple.

Darren used an I - II progression. Not sure if I like that.

I think you would need to use the seventh note and the second note of the lydian mode in the second last chord (as a sort of cadence), so I'm thinking a vii chord or a V chord. I wouldn't really like a V-I progression if I was trying to write a lydian progression, so that leaves vii.

I'd resolve in lydian by: vii-I

Your choice though.
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Old 01-01-2009, 07:47 AM   #42
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^ Yeah, that seems like the best option to me as well. Thanks for your help
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Old 01-01-2009, 08:55 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by deleriumtrigger
Am I doing something wrong? When I am trying to use a mode, say dorian in C, I should start on D correct?

I guess, what I am trying to ask is how do I make sure something sounds modal and doesn't just contain all notes of the key?


Read the lesson? English is not my first language, but I think I wrote pretty clear on which notes to emphasize in each mode.

To Demon.

I literally came up with all the progressions while I was writing to try to emulate my thought process to the fullest, that's why I ended up with "So What" kind of progression on the Dorian example. I wouldn't use any of the progressions on it's own as songs, it's more a thing to practice ur modal awareness and to emphasize "mode notes" and not a song writing lesson

Although on Lydian it was more a stylistic Idea. I interprete Lydian as mysterious, which I translated in a not (strong)resolving progression, so that it "hangs" on that #4.

People shouldn't take this progressions as the only way. The progressions are as much improvised as the leads.
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Old 01-01-2009, 01:56 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by deleriumtrigger
But when I am in the key of C and I want to play something in dorian shouldn't I start on ii, which is D?


You've got it all messed up.

Don't think of D Dorian as "C major starting on ii" - because that way you will inevitably play "C major" sounds.

It's got a tonal center of D. That means it's going to be D something.

A much better way to get a feel for this mode is to think of it as D minor with a major 6th, a much sweeter and brighter interval than the b6th.
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Old 01-01-2009, 02:58 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deleriumtrigger
But when I am in the key of C and I want to play something in dorian shouldn't I start on ii, which is D?


If you're in the key of C major, you're not going to be playing dorian (or any mode). You don't seem to understand what modes are. I suggest ignoring them completely until you have a firm grasp on the theory behind the major scale and diatonic harmony.
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Old 01-01-2009, 02:59 PM   #46
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^ I don't understand why one of the first things people want to learn, theory-wise, is modes. They're very rarely actually applied to modern music, and there are many things that are far more beneficial to the guitarist.
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Old 01-01-2009, 03:19 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michal23
^ I don't understand why one of the first things people want to learn, theory-wise, is modes. They're very rarely actually applied to modern music, and there are many things that are far more beneficial to the guitarist.



In many cases I think it's because it makes them feel more "advanced" to say they know modes. It's another "achievement"/more "XP points"..... not unlike being able to play a particular number of notes in 1 second, or being able to employ a celebrated shred technique like sweep picking or string skipping. "check me out, look what I can do.... look how advanced I am" !!!.
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Old 01-01-2009, 03:53 PM   #48
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I see modes as a learning experience.

Even if you don't use modes in a "modal songwriting" context. Playing around with them is a challenge, and once you learn the characteristics sounds of them, they will also help in non modal progressions as to which notes you choose over chords in soloing and/or writing.

With this lesson you take the INTERVALS as the MAIN focus, and I'm certain that if you play around with this you will develop ur ear into hearing all those (beautiful) interval relations outside of ur regular major and minor (and "Blues"), cause you really emphasize the other notes of the major scale.

The key word here is Aural Awareness and is intended for people that "Think in scales" and not intervals/intervallic relationship.

I don't know if this lesson will help everyone/anyone, but it helped me in being "aware" that it's all about the interval relations and not "The scale".
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Old 01-01-2009, 03:57 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxdarrenxx
I see modes as a learning experience.

Even if you don't use modes in a "modal songwriting" context. Playing around with them is a challenge, and once you learn the characteristics sounds of them, they will also help in non modal progressions as to which notes you choose over chords in soloing and/or writing.

With this lesson you take the INTERVALS as the MAIN focus, and I'm certain that if you play around with this you will develop ur ear into hearing all those (beautiful) interval relations outside of ur regular major and minor (and "Blues"), cause you really emphasize the other notes of the major scale.

The key word here is Aural Awareness and is intended for people that "Think in scales" and not intervals/intervallic relationship.

I don't know if this lesson will help everyone/anyone, but it helped me in being "aware" that it's all about the interval relations and not "The scale".


Well, you definitely put a lot of work into it, and there is some good info there. have you made this into an official lesson? It might be easier for people to learn in that format, so they don't have to sift through all the replies/opinions from people here in the forum.
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Old 01-01-2009, 04:12 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarMunky
Well, you definitely put a lot of work into it, and there is some good info there. have you made this into an official lesson? It might be easier for people to learn in that format, so they don't have to sift through all the replies/opinions from people here in the forum.


How do u mean official?
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Old 01-01-2009, 05:21 PM   #51
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You can submit it in the "Ug Contribution" forum near the bottom of the main forums page.
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Old 01-02-2009, 05:04 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archeo Avis
If you're in the key of C major, you're not going to be playing dorian (or any mode). You don't seem to understand what modes are. I suggest ignoring them completely until you have a firm grasp on the theory behind the major scale and diatonic harmony.

Could you explain what a mode is without using the metaphor of colors and just use plain english? Everywhere I go for knowledge of modes gives me a different definition.
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Old 01-02-2009, 07:00 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deleriumtrigger
Could you explain what a mode is without using the metaphor of colors and just use plain english? Everywhere I go for knowledge of modes gives me a different definition.


In the most plain english;
A mode is a scale/set of notes.

Q; What's the difference between scales?
A; They have different notes in relation to the root note.

Same notes = same scale, so modes are all major scale?

WRONG; It's all about the relation ship between root notes and it's intervals.

Really my Colour theory comes closest to "plain English". It's either that or the musical terms to describe it.
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Old 01-02-2009, 09:51 AM   #54
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Could you explain what a mode is without using the metaphor of colors and just use plain english? Everywhere I go for knowledge of modes gives me a different definition.


It's a scale derived by changing the tonic of another scale.
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Old 01-02-2009, 09:57 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuitarMunky
In many cases I think it's because it makes them feel more "advanced" to say they know modes. It's another "achievement"/more "XP points"..... not unlike being able to play a particular number of notes in 1 second, or being able to employ a celebrated shred technique like sweep picking or string skipping. "check me out, look what I can do.... look how advanced I am" !!!.
Agreed.

Modes are actually pretty useless in modern western music. Unless you're writing modal progressions, the ability to use accidentals in modern music (something mostly unheard of in pre-baroque music, when modes were used alot) sort of means modes are useless for melodies and improvising. That's my belief anyway.
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Old 01-02-2009, 10:39 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deleriumtrigger
Could you explain what a mode is without using the metaphor of colors and just use plain english? Everywhere I go for knowledge of modes gives me a different definition.


Who said anything about colors (or used any sort of metaphor)? The simple truth is that you just aren't ready to be worrying about modes.
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Old 01-02-2009, 11:28 AM   #57
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not unlike being able to play a particular number of notes in 1 second, or being able to employ a celebrated shred technique like sweep picking or string skipping. "check me out, look what I can do.... look how advanced I am" !!!.

Only, there's nothing advanced about it really is there? Everything is just a basic technique, it's just been sped up a little.
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Old 01-02-2009, 02:42 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by demonofthenight
Agreed.

Modes are actually pretty useless in modern western music. Unless you're writing modal progressions, the ability to use accidentals in modern music (something mostly unheard of in pre-baroque music, when modes were used alot) sort of means modes are useless for melodies and improvising. That's my belief anyway.


I Disagree.

Knowing modes also helps in understand interval relations. You can compose a song with different progressions which are modal or use parallel modes.

You call this modulation's, but this doesn't take away the fact that modes can potential broaden ur melodic sense.

Even if not the whole song is in 1 mode, it's stupid to say that you ignore what goes on in the middle of the song and only check what the first chord and the last chord resolve to.
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Old 01-02-2009, 03:04 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xxdarrenxx
In the most plain english;
A mode is a scale/set of notes.

Q; What's the difference between scales?
A; They have different notes in relation to the root note.

Same notes = same scale, so modes are all major scale?

WRONG; It's all about the relation ship between root notes and it's intervals.

Really my Colour theory comes closest to "plain English". It's either that or the musical terms to describe it.

Thank you, I feel this description is much better.
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Old 01-27-2009, 11:26 AM   #60
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Very cool! Kudos to OP.

This will help in the writing.
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