When operating on the more extreme fringes of metal, more often than not, a proverbial glass ceiling is ever-present in terms of sales and reach. Some attempt to question that glass ceiling however, and As I Lay Dying arguably does just that in terms of sales and reach, especially when their musical style is taken into account. Is this the product of hype, or decent material? Possibly a mixture of both, and for questioning that glass ceiling, the group should be praised.
Originally issued on May 7th, 2010 in Europe and subsequently four days later in North America - all through Metal Blade Records - "The Powerless Rise" shifted thirty-eight thousand copies in its inaugural week of release in North America to debut at position ten on the Billboard 200.
As I Lay Dying's fifth studio album underwent reissue in November courtesy of a limited edition super deluxe fan box set, a box set that has the following; "The Powerless Rise" CD and twelve-inch vinyl picture disc, a DVD documentary with in-studio footage and interviews plus extras, guitar, bass and drum tabs featuring Jordan Mancino, Nick Hipa, Phil Sgrosso and Josh Gilbert as well song stems for "Upside Down Kingdom" and expanded recording outtakes, a hardcover book with lyrics, photos, and editorial from the band, a twelve-inch by twelve-inch lithograph, three guitar picks, a mini-drumstick keychain, a patch, a window cling, and a metal logo pin.
In October, frontman Tim Lambesis launched a new clothing line called Modern Rebellion, boasting an official web site and merchandise store through 3rd Degree Merch. A charitable venture for Lambesis at least, the vocalist will be giving profits to Trees Of Glory, a non-profit organization dedicated to providing clean water for children in Duber, Ethiopia.
Kicking off on November 25th at Norwich's Waterfront Hall and drawing to a conclusion at Sheffield's Corporation five days later, As I Lay Dying's tour of the United Kingdom includes support from Heaven Shall Burn and Suicide Silence. On October 20th at 17:30 GMT, Hit The Lights' Robert Gray telephoned As I Lay Dying frontman Tim Lambesis to discuss the group's albums as well as his Modern Rebellion clothing line.
Tim Lambesis: Hello?
UG: Hello. Is this Tim?
This is Tim, yeah.
This is Robert Gray from Ultimate-Guitar.com.
How are you?
I'm ok. How are you Tim?
I'm good.
Would it be alright if I began the interview?
Yes.
The deluxe fan box edition of 'The Powerless Rise' is released in November, featuring a DVD documentary sporting in-studio footage. What was the experience of recording 'The Powerless Rise' in the studio like?
It was a pretty comfortable experience because I own the studio we recorded in, so we were able to really take our time, and everything sounded exactly how we wanted it to. I think as a result, we're more proud of 'The Powerless Rise' than any other album that we've recorded.
Did 'The Powerless Rise' benefit from the experience of recording As I Lay Dying's past albums?
Yeah. When most bands first start off, they have smaller recording budgets and they're always a little bit rushed. As we got bigger, we rushed a little bit because we were in somebody else's studio, meaning we were always racing against the clock. Owning my own studio I think meant we didn't feel any of that pressure.
A performance music video for "Anodyne Sea" surfaced in late August. Lyrically speaking, what's "Anodyne Sea" about?
"Anodyne Sea" is about being willing to stand up for what you believe in, even if it means that it will cause you to be outcasted by society, or to end up alone and really just being ok with the fact that you might lose popularity, or you might lose a friend.
"I think as a result, we're more proud of 'The Powerless Rise' than any other album that we've recorded."
Would it be ok if we touched upon As I Lay Dying's older albums?
Sure.
If I name each of As I Lay Dying's albums, could you share me your thoughts on each one?
Sure.
As I Lay Dying's debut album came out in June 2001, titled 'Beneath The Encasing Of Ashes'.
My thoughts on 'Beneath The Encasing Of Ashes' are we were so excited about just being in a band and getting the chance to go in a studio that we rushed things a bit. I think we just kind of went for it. At the time, I think we were just happy to record, but I think - looking back - we learnt the lesson that you can capture the energy of a band, but... The album is a snapshot of where we were at at the time, but it's definitely not some of our stronger material. 'Beneath The Encasing Of Ashes' is a snapshot of where we were after being a band for only two months. We went into the studio almost immediately after forming.
Two years later in July 2003, As I Lay Dying issued 'Frail Words Collapse', the group's first album to be released through Metal Blade Records.
'Frail Words Collapse' is the record where we really started to develop the sound that we were going for, because to me, that album was a bridge between our debut and 'Shadows Are Security'. I think we really thought through musically having a little bit more diversity, and I think that's when the more melodic sound came in and blended with some of the darker sound from when the band first started. Ever since then, I think we've always used that as a template for the epic diversity that we like to keep between brutality and melody on every album.
In recording 'Frail Words Collapse', would you say that As I Lay Dying looked at 'Beneath The Encasing Of Ashes' and possibly thought "This is what we wanted to do with the first album"? With certain aspects in hindsight?
Yeah, definitely.
Did 'Frail Words Collapse' benefit from being released by Metal Blade Records?
Yeah. Metal Blade had a lot more manpower behind the record than our initial record label, and also, just the fact that 'Frail Words Collapse' was released worldwide as opposed to just within the U.S. I think was a big step for the band. Even though Metal Blade was a much bigger label, 'Frail Words Collapse' sold more six months after its release than it did the first week it was released.
As I Lay Dying released its third album two years later in June 2005, titled 'Shadows Are Security'.
'Shadows Are Security' was when Phil Sgrosso our guitarist joined the band right before the writing process for that album, and I think that album really showcased his influence on our band and how he helped us progress. 'Frail Words Collapse' was primarily written by myself, whereas 'Shadows Are Security' mainly, as far as the guitar riffs go, really helped our band a lot.
Is 'Shadows Are Security' more reflective of what As I Lay Dying sound like nowadays as opposed to the group's earlier albums? Considering rhythm guitarist Phil Sgrosso and lead guitarist Nick Hipa appeared on 'Shadows Are Security'?
Yeah... Well, we really didn't fully come into our own until 'An Ocean Between Us' because Phil started writing on 'Shadows Are Security', though Nick didn't get more involved until 'An Ocean Between Us'. In terms of the progress of the band, I think 'An Ocean Between Us' was the most effective with that lineup, and then 'The Powerless Rise' had a very similar writing process. We officially added Josh Gilbert though, who'd been with us for almost four years; he's been with us for about four years now, but this was the first album he contributed songwriting to.
In your opinion then, August 2007's 'An Ocean Between Us' was a defining record for As I Lay Dying?
Yeah. I think 'An Ocean Between Us' was where we expanded beyond what a lot of people would consider a metalcore band. In our opinion, that's a very metal record; I don't really see that many metalcore elements on there. Maybe that's just the result of us progressing as a band and just being able to play a little bit more technical, and bring in some of the original influences - some of the thrash bands that we grew up on. 'An Ocean Between Us' definitely was a lot thrashier than our previous releases, and I think we've kept up that energy and speed even on 'The Powerless Rise'.
What are your thoughts on this metalcore tag As I Lay Dying is saddled with?
Musically, if you listen to the riffs that we're writing, I don't think you can label us as a metalcore band. I think that we get that tag though because of the way the band first started; a lot of our first tours were with hardcore bands, and a lot of our friends and bands that we associate with are definitely part of the metalcore genre. As a result, I think that we were lumped into that genre. It doesn't actually bother me, because I think that we became very influential in the metalcore genre as a result, but I think our band is a lot more than that. As I Lay Dying has a lot more depth musically than a metalcore band.
As you said, 'An Ocean Between Us' was a defining album for As I Lay Dying. With that in mind, how did 'The Powerless Rise' build upon that?
Like I said earlier about Josh Gilbert our bassist, 'The Powerless Rise' is the first album where we actually had a bassist contribute to the songwriting process. That was one more creative mind who added to the process, but also, I think that we went out of our way not to repeat songs that we'd created in the past. We had some songs on there that maybe weren't very similar to some of our previous material, and I think that was a little bit frustrating for some fans, but for other fans I think it was really exciting that we tried something a little different. Even the opening track "Beyond Our Suffering" is fast and very thrash influenced. I think 'The Powerless Rise' is something a little different, but we still had more melodic tracks on there like "Anger And Apathy" which to me is very, very melodic. I think the diversity on the album is better than the diversity on any other album that we've released.
""Anodyne Sea" is about being willing to stand up for what you believe in, even if it means that it will cause you to be outcasted by society."
Is writing diverse albums an important element for you then?
Yeah. In the future, we'll probably be expanding in that respect. Especially as a lot of bands become older in their careers, when they wanna change they change usually in a more melodic way so that they can appeal to a bigger audience. We decided that we wanna have certain elements of our band that push the melodic aspect a little bit, but for every song we push in that way we wanna push the band to get heavier. I think that's why "Beyond Our Suffering" for instance - the opening track on 'The Powerless Rise' - is in my opinion one of the heaviest tracks we've ever released.
You said that Josh Gilbert contributed to 'The Powerless Rise', and that it was the first time a bassist had contributed to an As I Lay Dying album in terms of songwriting. How did that shape the album somewhat? What flavour did Josh's contribution add to the mix?
Having him as a songwriter meant each of us were able to focus on what we individually do well. Phil is very good at writing melodic type riffs, but has written some of the thrashier, darker songs at times, so he was able to really focus on what he does well. Most of the melodic type riffs came from him while Josh wrote a handful of heavier, darker riffs. There wasn't the pressure on one person to do everything, and that's why 'The Powerless Rise' has a healthier diversity in my opinion.
As I Lay Dying will tour the United Kingdom in late November with Heaven Shall Burn and Suicide Silence. How would you describe the United Kingdom audience that turns up to live events for As I Lay Dying?
It's especially hard for us to describe our U.K. audience because we haven't toured there nearly as much as maybe the U.S., but going back to the metalcore tag, it's interesting that genres are different from country to country. A lot of bands that we influenced, younger bands that would maybe open for us in the U.S., are bands that we're a lot smaller than in the U.K., so it's hard for me to trace the trends over there because it's definitely a different music market than a lot of the countries we play. Our fanbase is definitely real music fans; we don't get the type of press coverage that maybe some of the other bands get over there, so as a result, I think they found the band because they're genuine music fans and not because there's a lot of hype about us over there. That maybe makes our audiences very energetic, even if the crowd is small. It's always very... I don't know the best way to describe it, but it always seems like the crowds are very passionate about our band and our music.
You recently launched a clothing line titled Modern Rebellion. How did that come about that?
A close friend of mine and I have always talked about starting a clothing line together. He's a great artist, and he's actually designed a handful of shirts for us. Over the years, we've been toying with the idea back and forth, and then eventually with the release of 'The Powerless Rise', I decided this was the right time to go for it. I really wanted to have a clothing line where I could be really proud of the designs, but also be proud of what it stood for. Some bands wear T-shirts in press photos or onstage or wherever it is, and whether they intended to or not, they're catching the attention of at least a few people out there. With me, if I'm gonna wear a shirt I might as well wear a shirt that I'm proud of - proud of the way it looks, and proud of what it stands for. That was why I decided to give my portion of the company as far as my income goes to charity. It was launched only two weeks ago, and we've gotten a great response so far.
You said you're giving your profits from Modern Rebellion to charity, and currently, you're donating those profits to a charity called Trees Of Glory.
Yeah. Me donating to this particular project is influenced by some of the orphanages that I've visited. Ethiopia I've gone to on two separate occasions; once to adopt my son, and then once again to visit some of the orphanages and see how I could support them. I have a passion for orphan care, especially in the area where my son is from. I wanted my profits from at least this initial batch of shirts to go to Trees Of Glory because of all the orphanages I've visited, I felt like they had the greatest amount of need. They're at a start-up point; lots of kids are becoming orphaned essentially and need to be taken care of, but they don't have the resources quite yet to do that. Hopefully these designs will be one of many sources that will allow them to take in more kids. With future T-shirt releases we can change up which charities the profits go to, but at least for now anyway, I think Trees Of Glory has a tremendous amount of need. Ethiopia is a place that's close to my heart because I've visited it in person. It also gives me confidence to know that the money's going to the right place.
You said you visited orphanages in Ethiopia. What is it like to visit these orphanages then? How would you describe the experience to someone who's never made a visit?
For most of us, our perspective on life is influenced by what we see around us - our own bubble of life - and we think of our own problems as things that are worth being stressed out about. The thing is though, when I visited an orphanage for the first time, for me it really put life into perspective and showed me that my problems are very minimal. It broke my heart in a lot of ways, but also gave me a passion to live for something more meaningful than my own trivial dramas and whatever else it is we spend our time worrying about. In a sense, having visited orphanages in Ethiopia, I live with a greater sense of peace knowing that I really appreciate what I have. If anything, I can spend my time and energy to support those less fortunate than myself rather than only striving to be more successful monetarily or owning bigger and greater things.
Would you say that your charity work is an extension of your faith?
My faith is in Jesus' influence but I think beyond that, it's a very simple thing that isn't restricted to one particular type of faith. I have friends who have different beliefs than me, but their hearts break in the same way when they see these orphans.
What design styles do Modern Rebellion's T-shirts have?
I'm trying to keep the line fairly diverse. I think some of them are more on the brutal side, shirts you'd see guys in a metal band wearing. Some of them are then a little bit more... I almost hate to use the word, but a little bit more mainstream. It's hard to really describe the diversity of a shirt line - I think you have to see them. For anybody who's interested, it's as simple as just checking them out on our website.
What are your current plans with Austrian Death Machine?
We haven't really had a decent chunk of time at home since we released 'The Powerless Rise', so as soon as we have maybe two months at home I'll probably write and record the next Austrian Death Machine album. I have a lot of ideas to include other musicians on this album, especially because the first two full-lengths are albums that I wrote entirely on my own. 'Double Brutal''s second disc obviously has just cover songs, but I really want to bring in some other musicians to get involved, even on the songwriting this time to just make this record different. There's plenty of Arnold Schwarzenegger quotes left over. I always have a blast; I never laugh as hard as I do when we're in the studio recording for Austrian Death Machine. "I'll Be Back" is still coming, and one of my favourite lines from 'Total Recall' is "Consider that a divorce". There's a lot of great Arnold lines left to be written about.
"My thoughts on 'Beneath The Encasing Of Ashes' are we were so excited about just being in a band and getting the chance to go in a studio that we rushed things a bit."
Arnold definitely has a lot of one-liners, doesn't he?
Yeah (laughs). It's great to think that there are still fifty or more great lines he has that I haven't put into songs yet.
How long does As I Lay Dying plan to tour in support of 'The Powerless Rise'?
Since the album was released we've only headlined, so we're gonna keep headlining until we've played at least every major city. That's the main reason why we're doing this tour in November, and after that, then we'll try to mix it up a little bit by doing a support tour, opening up for a bigger band at the same time. We'll play some of the same cities again, and then at that point, we'll go back in the studio.
Between the releases of 'An Ocean Between Us' and 'The Powerless Rise', there was a three-year gap. Can you see a three-year gap taking place between the release of 'The Powerless Rise' and As I Lay Dying's sixth studio album?
As far as a completely new full-length, I would say possibly yeah - it's probably gonna take three years. We do have another release planned in between 'The Powerless Rise' and the next album because our ten-year anniversary is coming up. We have some different ideas floating around about doing something interesting with some new songs on it, but it wouldn't necessarily be an entire new full-length.
Can you reveal anything else regarding these ideas which are floating around, or are they just being discussed at the moment?
We're still discussing what we wanna do. We want it to be an EP or a full-length; we want it to have a combination of older songs re-recorded, cover songs and new songs. The one thing that we know for sure is we have one brand new song that we want to release on there, so there'll be something new and completely unreleased. We might record a couple of other new ones as well, but the only thing we know for certain right now is just the one song that we've finished.
Does this possible release have a tentative release date?
No. We just know that 2011 is our ten-year anniversary, and we'd like to just do something special within that year. There are no official plans; it's all just been brainstorming within the band at this point.
Is it possible As I Lay Dying might do an anniversary show where it performs all of 'Beneath The Encasing Of Ashes' live?
We talked about doing not a complete anniversary tour, but maybe a handful of major cities, big enough music markets for us to maybe play multiple nights in a row. We could play a different album on a different night. We did something similar for our DVD; we played our hometown of San Diego, and it was a great experience for us. Maybe we'll do something similar in 2011.
Can you see As I Lay Dying continuing for another ten years?
Yeah, absolutely. I don't really feel like we're anywhere near a point in our lives where we're burnt out or we're running into a wall creatively. We still view ourselves as a very young band, and we're all still in our twenties at this point. There's definitely no reason to stop now.
Do you have a message for the fans of As I Lay Dying?
I think what keeps any band going really is the fans. While we're passionate about what we do, the fans give us the opportunity to do that, so we're very appreciative of the support we've had over the years. I think there's never one thing I can say in an interview that expresses our appreciation, even as far as being interviewed. Obviously, we wouldn't be here doing this interview if it wasn't for our fans.
That's definitely true. Best of luck with As I Lay Dying, Austrian Death Machine, and your clothing line anyway Tim.
Great interview.
As I lay dying are an amazing band. And Tim's lyrics are incredible.
I'm not christian, but this band definitely sends a great message.
These guys have come a LONG way since their first two albums, and they deserve the credit. I don't think they are specifically hardcore/metalcore anymore either. They still have some of those elements, but they can just be considered METAL now.
I love it how bands try and defend themselves once they get labeled and they necessarily don't agree with it. "We're more than just a _____ band" type interviews plague this website...
Awesome interview. I love AILD, they've definitely gotten better with The Powerless Rise. Tim's selfless act of making clothing line for charity is an inspiration. Also, I'm super stoked for more Austrian Death Machine.
I think they are metalcore. The clean vocal style, guitar tone, and use of breakdowns prevent this from being true metal. I still kinda like them, though.
I love it how bands try and defend themselves once they get labeled and they necessarily don't agree with it. "We're more than just a _____ band" type interviews plague this website...
Agreed. Not to mention they're the definition of "generic metalcore."
(listens to song) People think this has depth? Amazing,they're slightly more technical and still as generic and lame as ever.Such a terrible vocalist jesus.
(listens to song) People think this has depth? Amazing,they're slightly more technical and still as generic and lame as ever.Such a terrible vocalist jesus.
There's no such thing as terrible music, singers, guitarist, etc.
Just opinions.
AILD sounds great to millions, but for some, they won't sound so good.
That's why, distance yourself, and stop giving opinions on things you don't like. Cause we don't care.
I love it how bands try and defend themselves once they get labeled and they necessarily don't agree with it. "We're more than just a _____ band" type interviews plague this website...
Agreed. Not to mention they're the definition of "generic metalcore."
Eh. Here I go with my two cents once again. I have been a sporadic fan of As I Lay Dying over the years because usually with their albums maybe one or two songs REALLY stand out from the rest so I do get bored with it. With this new album though, I can tell yo firsthand it is a breath of fresh air. There seems to a ton of Killswitch influence which really kicks the music up a notch. Also, calling this band "generic" metalcore makes you look a little dumb. Listen to the entire new album and come back and tell me how "metalcore" it is.
new genre: thrashcore. naw but seriously, AILD are great and are definitely more deep and varied than just metalcore
If any band is/was "thrashcore", it was Trivium on their Ascendancy album.
Thrashcore was around in the late 80's, mix between Hardcore Punk and Thrash Metal (duh).
Riffmast wrote:
(listens to song) People think this has depth? Amazing,they're slightly more technical and still as generic and lame as ever.Such a terrible vocalist jesus.
(listens to song) People think this has depth? Amazing,they're slightly more technical and still as generic and lame as ever.Such a terrible vocalist jesus.
There's no such thing as terrible music, singers, guitarist, etc.
Just opinions.
AILD sounds great to millions, but for some, they won't sound so good.
That's why, distance yourself, and stop giving opinions on things you don't like. Cause we don't care.
Everything is based on opinion,and people should speak theirs,especially if it's a negative one.Speaking out against the shitty things in life is the only way that people can progress.The millions of people who listen to As I Lay Dying listen to it because it's mind numbing pop "metal".I find it funny how they helped start the At The Gates rip off Metalocre trend,and now that the mainstream metal bands are all gravitating toward technicality,they decide to get way more technical.Must be afraid to loose their fanbase,who just jump from one trend to another,never thinking about quality.Fuck this music and everything it represents.
(listens to song) People think this has depth? Amazing,they're slightly more technical and still as generic and lame as ever.Such a terrible vocalist jesus.
There's no such thing as terrible music, singers, guitarist, etc.
Just opinions.
AILD sounds great to millions, but for some, they won't sound so good.
That's why, distance yourself, and stop giving opinions on things you don't like. Cause we don't care.
Everything is based on opinion,and people should speak theirs,especially if it's a negative one.Speaking out against the shitty things in life is the only way that people can progress.The millions of people who listen to As I Lay Dying listen to it because it's mind numbing pop "metal".I find it funny how they helped start the At The Gates rip off Metalocre trend,and now that the mainstream metal bands are all gravitating toward technicality,they decide to get way more technical.Must be afraid to loose their fanbase,who just jump from one trend to another,never thinking about quality.Fuck this music and everything it represents.
They are progressing as people and artists. It's what they want to do.
And as far as negative opinions. Just keep it to yourself. Why click on a AILD interview if you don't like 'em?
I certainly don't do that. Cause I understand that other people love the music. So why send a negative opinion?
You may not agree with me. But that's my opinion on speaking negatively about a band.
I just find it funny how whenever most bands "progress" it's when they start make their sound closer to what ever is trendy at the time, and yet the bands who actually do new and inventive things get shunned by most people because it does'nt fall into their safe zone with music.I clicked on the link because it said"New AILD has more emotional depth then metalcore" i was interested to see if i would agree with this,and i don't,i think they're just as bad as ever and therefore voiced my opinion about it.People not speaking up when a band is shit just helps keep popular music in a terrible state.
I think they are metalcore. The clean vocal style, guitar tone, and use of breakdowns prevent this from being true metal. I still kinda like them, though.
You'd be surprised at how many "true metal" bands use clean vocals and breakdowns. Not that I'm disputing that their metalcore but I find it ridiculous that people use these to try and separate metalcore from other metal genera.
I just find it funny how whenever most bands "progress" it's when they start make their sound closer to what ever is trendy at the time, and yet the bands who actually do new and inventive things get shunned by most people because it does'nt fall into their safe zone with music.I clicked on the link because it said"New AILD has more emotional depth then metalcore" i was interested to see if i would agree with this,and i don't,i think they're just as bad as ever and therefore voiced my opinion about it.People not speaking up when a band is shit just helps keep popular music in a terrible state.
I love bands that are not even close to "popular". But giving a negative opinion isn't gonna change another persons, or even the actual band for that matter.
I couldn't care less about the state of popular music. I just pay attention to the bands I love.
And yes, AILD's music is getting heavier and a little more on the thrashy side. How's that following a trend? They're music is harder than their first couple of albums. And I wouldn't be suprised if the next is harder than TPR.
Listen to the songs like "condamned" and "within destruction", now those are circle pit anthems.
Giving a negative opinionm will at least make people think and question about why they like thoose bands in the first place.I would'nt say their music is thrashier at all,it's just getting noty-er,a bit more up tempo and low register and is giving the illusion of being more"technical", and thats been the trend with popular metal for the last couple years with prog-deathcore and bands like Braindrill who are now high popular.Now that the trend is moving away from the self pitying scene kid image and going more towards mindless "hardness" naturally lots of bands are going to follow suit and do what they can to fit in.Circle pits also have nothing to do with anything other then pop metal garbage like Lamb Of God.
ProgJazzMath wrote:
Eh. Here I go with my two cents once again. I have been a sporadic fan of As I Lay Dying over the years because usually with their albums maybe one or two songs REALLY stand out from the rest so I do get bored with it. With this new album though, I can tell yo firsthand it is a breath of fresh air. There seems to a ton of Killswitch influence which really kicks the music up a notch. Also, calling this band "generic" metalcore makes you look a little dumb. Listen to the entire new album and come back and tell me how "metalcore" it is.
There's "tons of KsE influence" eh? Doesn't that prove my point that they're generic then?
Yeah I don't get why metalcore isn't considered 'true'. Many other bands use clean vocals and breakdowns as stated above, but metalcore is by definition a combination of metal with hardcore. August Burns Red for example are a lot more metal than -core, and Hatebreed are more -core than metal.
Actually Metalcore has little to do with real hardcore,it evolved from post hardcore(basically kids who had a poor understanding of it but called their music hardcore anyways)real Metalcore was stuff like Converge who created geniunly metallic hardcore music.But shit like August Burns Red or even As I Lay Dying is basically a mixture of nu-metal and pop music sensibilities,with derivative melodic death death and left over thrash riffs.Metalheads blamed this mistake on Hardcore as soon as possible to avoid being associated with it,hardcore ended up doing the same thing. So Metalheads usually consider it as "thoose dumb hardcore kids who make fake metal thats actually shitty hardcore" and hardcore kids go"thoose dumb wanky metalheads who make fake hardcore thats actually shitty metal",it's realisticly just a continuation of pop metal like Nu-Metal was and has nothing to do with the core of either genre.
Now IM MAD!!!!! I bought the box set the day it was for presale. It said 'limited to 50 worldwide' now they're mass producing it. ?????!!!!! &$@"!!!! $&@$$&&@$$!!!! Argh.
I think they are metalcore. The clean vocal style, guitar tone, and use of breakdowns prevent this from being true metal. I still kinda like them, though.
You'd be surprised at how many "true metal" bands use clean vocals and breakdowns. Not that I'm disputing that their metalcore but I find it ridiculous that people use these to try and separate metalcore from other metal genera.
Don't get me wrong, I know that these things appear in metal songs, but the clean vocal tone in AILD sounds like modern post-hardcore or emo, not like melodeath or prog cleans, and the breakdowns are more akin to those of the modern wave of metalcore than those used by slam death metal bands.
You should if you ask me..... And i say that due to the fact that it's overly accesible and safe sounding wannabe thrash metal/nu metal styled,with sterilized production and that musically does'nt reflect what Metal is about as far as the way they put their music together. It's based off bouncy pop hooks more so then Metal elements.
You should if you ask me..... And i say that due to the fact that it's overly accesible and safe sounding wannabe thrash metal/nu metal styled,with sterilized production and that musically does'nt reflect what Metal is about as far as the way they put their music together. It's based off bouncy pop hooks more so then Metal elements.
At this point. Who cares if it has metal elements or not. The music itself is what matters.
Chaz-6(sic)6 wrote:
At this point. Who cares if it has metal elements or not. The music itself is what matters.
Oh i agree, i was just explaining why i call it shitty pop metal,because it's basically pop music disguised as Metal.I also hate pop music and think ity's generally garbage so that explains my opinion on the music
You should if you ask me..... And i say that due to the fact that it's overly accesible and safe sounding wannabe thrash metal/nu metal styled,with sterilized production and that musically does'nt reflect what Metal is about as far as the way they put their music together. It's based off bouncy pop hooks more so then Metal elements .
Dark,Powerfull.Abrasive,antithesis to modern society and values(represented by the musical styules of pop),Nihilistic(not always but more then often) Songs that are built less around catchy hooks and more around peiceing ideas in a meaningfull way so to express something that goes beyond face value ideas.Of course thet're pretty variable, and you can't make a clear definition,but if you listen to Black Sabbath-S/T and then Autopsy-In The Grip Of Winter for example you can hear that they're coming from the same place musically. Lamb Of God has that angsty,angry for no reason,attempting to be edgey for the sake of it, type of deal that can be found in nu-metal and mainstream rock.
Unfortunately, they do get lumped in with metalcore...but they're on that same level as other good metalcore bands such as Unearth and Becoming the Archetype. I don't hear any Killswitch elements on The Powerless Rise. Killswitch has made the same album 3 times in a row now. Killswitch is DEFINITELY the perfect example of a boring band.
Lamb Of God has that angsty, angry for no reason...
I see a lot of that in "real" metal, too. But that's more of a question of values and motives, which is something that we as listeners can only make educated guesses about. From the outside, we may view it as being angsty, angry, and edgy for no reason other than anger's sake, but in my opinion, only the band (the lyricists, for that matter) really know the reasons behind everything.
But based on what we hear, we can make observations,everything is an approximation when it comes to anything of this sort anyways.If you don't offer your opinion on things,then there really is'nt anything worthwhile to talk about.I would disagree that bands like Autopsy or Darkthrone are angsty,theres just allot more going on in what they are expressing.And the way they peice their music together is a pretty good illustration of it.
But based on what we hear, we can make observations,everything is an approximation when it comes to anything of this sort anyways.If you don't offer your opinion on things,then there really is'nt anything worthwhile to talk about.I would disagree that bands like Autopsy or Darkthrone are angsty,theres just allot more going on in what they are expressing.And the way they peice their music together is a pretty good illustration of it.
Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm all for discussion.
And I guess it wouldn't apply to bands like Autopsy or Darkthrone then, but that depends on who you're asking. Anyone could just as easily say they are angsty. I'm not saying that they are, I just think a lot of it has to do with how receptive you are to the style of music.
Like how indie kids criticize metal. The same way that some metalheads regard metalcore as pointless, boring, talentless, angsty, and uninspired, some indie kids feel that way towards the whole metal genre. But that's because they don't like it, and they just don't understand why the fans do.
I think it's the same way with a lot of "true" metalheads and their views on metalcore.
You say that we can make observations based on what we hear. And I fully agree. But everyone hears things differently.
Of course, I will agree with one thing though. Metalcore is too popular for its own good, and a significant percentage of the fanbase is made up of trendhopping teenagers. It's become watered down over the years and saturated with copycat acts, but that happens to any genre that becomes popular. I think In a few years most of it will probably wash away, and only the dedicated will be left.
So bands will start being good like Converge?,i doubt that.I could argue with many points that i've observed that their not though,from the way their melodies and song structure work together,or the philosiphy behind the lyrics and how it interacts with the music. Indie kids don't like metal because it is'nt hip,and because it has a culture behind it that is based off more then trying to seem unique by supporting what ever the new fad is.Considering most indie music is basically pop music that has'nt been picked up by a major label yet(and the bands will act like they don't want to, but will be quick to sign the first contract they can get),it's a good representation of the people involved.
So bands will start being good like Converge?,i doubt that.
Nah, I think it would be like the way thrash is now. Of the old bands, the big four are still very popular while other (and arguably better) bands have little exposure anymore. But there are new thrash bands who play thrash because it's thrash (not because it's popular) who are pretty good. So in the future, everyone will remember As I Lay Dying, but only a few will remember Converge, despite how much better Converge may be. Kinda like the way so many kids think Metallica is the greatest thrash band ever, when so many other thrash bands from the 80s were so much better. But now thrash is relatively small when compared to modern metal trends, so I think in the future metalcore will be relatively small when compared to whatever trends are in the future.
I could argue with many points that i've observed that their not though,from the way their melodies and song structure work together,or the philosiphy behind the lyrics and how it interacts with the music.
Which would be a valid argument as any but making a valid argument and proving your point is separate from convincing someone about something which is based on subjective interpretation. Also, what about metal that either lacks melody, has no thought put into song structure, and/or has no thought put into lyrics? Better yet, aren't most of those things subject to interpretation by the listener?
Indie kids don't like metal because it is'nt hip,
Or because, you know, they don't like the sound of it. People that generally are attracted to easy listening aren't going to enjoy the abrasive loud nature of metal
and because it has a culture behind it that is based off more then trying to seem unique by supporting what ever the new fad is.
I don't understand that part. Are they trying to seem unique or are they trying to support new fads? Either way, generalizing a subculture goes all ways
Considering most indie music is basically pop music that has'nt been picked up by a major label yet(and the bands will act like they don't want to, but will be quick to sign the first contract they can get),it's a good representation of the people involved.
I still feel like you're generalizing it a little too much. You'll fend off generalizations about metal but you turn around and typcast other subcultures, which emphasizes my point about perceptions being based on receptiveness. I'm assuming you don't like indie music, which I think contributes at least a little bit (either conciously or subconciously) to why you downplay it so much.
Well as far as i see, everything comes down to interpretation,even things like Sience are based off of well analyzed interpretations of the world.I'm not saying that i'm 100% right,but this is my opinion and i feel that i am correct about it due to my reasoning. People don't like things because it symbolizes ideas or lifestyles they don't like.Our whole perception of reality, and our own opinions are based on the judgements and ideas that have been created through our social interaction with one another and the world around us.
Indie kids like to seem unique by supporting artists who are hip and trendy(and therefore safe sounding and not requireing much effort to listen to),but also have some quirk that sets them appart from other artists at face value,(hey just have'nt become as popular as a super star diva are,but easily could be if they got lucky).heese artists carry the same self absorbed and overly safe and acessible sound as pop music,but they just have'nt gotten huge media coverage yet or are known by everyone,only marginally big.The Indie kids like these bands because they can start listing them and say "no one knows about theese guys,but i saw them in a little club down in the hip part of town and their were only 15 people there"giving them a sense of superiority and "coolness", but still listen to easy to digest,flavour of the weak kind of music.This is because individualism is valued more then functionality in our society, and people feel that rather then looking for something true and worthwhile to hold on to,that they should just jump the trends in order to get noticed and praised.
And obviously not every indie fan is like this,but it is a common thing that i've noticed. And i have no problem with people generalizeing or criticizing metal,i will defend it happily.I love a good debate.
I don't like Indie music because the sound represents things i don't like,and on even an aesthic level i find it very hollow and lackluster.My dislike comes from the obnservations i've made about the music,i don't just dislike things for no reasons at all(anyone who say they do are just lying to themselves) and then make a rational, The meaning and symbols come first and then the opinions are a result.
ProgJazzMath wrote:
Eh. Here I go with my two cents once again. I have been a sporadic fan of As I Lay Dying over the years because usually with their albums maybe one or two songs REALLY stand out from the rest so I do get bored with it. With this new album though, I can tell yo firsthand it is a breath of fresh air. There seems to a ton of Killswitch influence which really kicks the music up a notch. Also, calling this band "generic" metalcore makes you look a little dumb. Listen to the entire new album and come back and tell me how "metalcore" it is.
There's "tons of KsE influence" eh? Doesn't that prove my point that they're generic then?
Although KSE's new album is nothing special, most tracks from As Daylight Dies and End of Heartache (aka My Curse, Reject Yoiurself, Arms Of Sorrow, This Is Abdolution, A Bid Farewell, Take This Oath, Wasted Sacrifice, ect.) are far from generic.
I freakin hate metalcore because for one, it sucks... ALOT. Every song is the same, lyrics are all the same, all songs have the same structure, no musical ideas whatsoever just 5 simple riffs put together with anus screaming on top. But what really annoys me is that since this is the popular "pop" metal, people who don't like metal, it is simply because they think all metal is like metalcore garbage, and instantly tie metalheads with ****ing emos and shit...
Oh and by the way, to anybody who likes metalcore, go listen to Kalmah, Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Pantera, Ozzy Osbourne, Black sabbath etc. That stuff is real metal! If you actually believe that your gay little Killswitch Engage or AILD have musical innovation after listening to any of the bands I listed you are insane...
I freakin hate metalcore because for one, it sucks... ALOT. Every song is the same, lyrics are all the same, all songs have the same structure, no musical ideas whatsoever just 5 simple riffs put together with anus screaming on top. But what really annoys me is that since this is the popular "pop" metal, people who don't like metal, it is simply because they think all metal is like metalcore garbage, and instantly tie metalheads with ****ing emos and shit...
Your username and the intelligence in this post fit like hand-in-glove. I'm curious as to which bands you're talking about.
These comments are getting ridiculous. I love As I Lay Dying, but it sure as hell isn't because they are the "in" thing. If you don't agree with someone's choices, it is just a cop-out to say that they are trying to be trendy. I like AILD because I have known them since their early albums and have enjoyed them throughout a good portion of my life. That aside, as long as a musician creates something with the intent of it being at least somewhat musical, then whether one likes it or not is completely opinion.
I like As I Lay Dying, they are pretty cool. But they aren't different from other metalcore, they are more like one of the main starters of metalcore (or at least a popularizer).
God, could you be any more of a narcissist. You have an opinion? Good. You don't like something. Fine. But your attitude toward the whole music industry is everything that is wrong with metal and its fanbase these days. I'm a fan of metal, but I go so far out of my way to avoid being labelled a "metalhead" because of getting dumped into that swarming crowd of ignorance, elitism, arrogance and sheer misunderstanding of it all. Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean its 'shit'. At all. Personally I cannot stand MCR, Trivium, Megadeth and plenty of other bands. Know what I do? I don't read the articles. There's just no need. Go talk to people on threads about bands you do like. So much more constructive. The more anti conformist you try and be, the more of that poser you claim to hate, you become.
I hate how people just throw in their thought of "it has breakdowns and clean vocals, it must be metalcore". Seriously people. Why does music have to be all about genres and sub-genres. There are plenty of "thrash" metal bands that have breakdowns and clean vocals. Almost all music (especially metal) has some sort of breakdown in it, maybe not clean vocals but many bands have breakdowns. It's just part of writing music and that doesn't make you one specific type of music. People that have a negative opinion on shit can speak their minds and people who find that offensive and speak their minds too, who really cares if somebody doesn't like the same band as you...and who gives a shit if you are the one that doesn't like that specific band. I personally like some (but not all) As I Lay Dying. They have some pretty fancy riffage in their songs. I also listen to bands like Metallica, Megadeth, Testament, Trivium, Lamb of God, Motley Crue, Journey, Kalmah, even Korn (prepares to get blasted by elitist "metal heads" Also listen to some 90s bands like Bush, Candlebox, etc. . There's nothing wrong in being open to more than one type a music let alone one "sub-genre" of that type of music. You're just going to limit yourself if you only listen to one specific thing and everything else "sucks". I dunno how many of you actually play guitar, or if you just get on here to bitch about things you don't like, but it helps as a guitarist to listen to different writing techniques and riffs and open your library of playing skills. And any band that gets big doesn't automatically mean that they are pop metal posers. It just means that they wrote something people seem to like listening to. That's the goal of just about any band or anybody doing anything really...cooking, acting, etc. You try to put out something that you like, but also that gets some sort of attention from the masses. Otherwise they wouldn't be getting paid to do what they love to do. A lot of you people need to grow up and stop bashing things you don't like without having a valid reason of why they "suck" other than coming up with the original excuse of them just flat out sucking. And you other people need to quit being so sensitive because not everybody likes the same shit you do. Although I did come across a Metal Playlist on YouTube once that had My Chemical Romance and 30 Seconds to Mars on it...I found that kind of odd. Anyways that's my opinion on it. If I am allowed to have one without starting some kind of argument anyways.
God, could you be any more of a narcissist. You have an opinion? Good. You don't like something. Fine. But your attitude toward the whole music industry is everything that is wrong with metal and its fanbase these days. I'm a fan of metal, but I go so far out of my way to avoid being labelled a "metalhead" because of getting dumped into that swarming crowd of ignorance, elitism, arrogance and sheer misunderstanding of it all. Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean its 'shit'. At all. Personally I cannot stand MCR, Trivium, Megadeth and plenty of other bands. Know what I do? I don't read the articles. There's just no need. Go talk to people on threads about bands you do like. So much more constructive. The more anti conformist you try and be, the more of that poser you claim to hate, you become.
I never claimed to be a non conformist.i have my little niche that i fit into,being a Metalhead is'nt about being original,it's just a counter culture to the mainstream/modern society, and it has it's own values just like any other culture.I also have allot of respect for certain artists,even ones who i don't pareticularily enjoy the music of.Being elitist promotes quality music and more thought towards music,i don't care if people agree with the things that i say,just that they think about them.And i agree that just because i don't like sonething does'nt mean it's automatically shit,but it can be my opinion. I and would hope that people could argue against my ideas with something better then "it's just your opinion,if you don't like it then just ignore it and stop being such a jerk",ignoring the bad things in the world is just retarded to me.
I never claimed to be a non conformist.i have my little niche that i fit into,being a Metalhead is'nt about being original,it's just a counter culture to the mainstream/modern society, and it has it's own values just like any other culture.I also have allot of respect for certain artists,even ones who i don't particularily enjoy the music of.Being elitist promotes quality music and more thought towards music,i don't care if people agree with the things that i say,just that they think about them.And i agree that just because i don't like something does'nt mean it's automatically shit,but it can be my opinion.And i would hope that people could argue against my ideas with something better then "it's just your opinion,if you don't like it then just ignore it and stop being such a jerk",ignoring the bad things in the world is just retarded to me.
I never claimed to be a non conformist.i have my little niche that i fit into,being a Metalhead is'nt about being original,it's just a counter culture to the mainstream/modern society, and it has it's own values just like any other culture.I also have allot of respect for certain artists,even ones who i don't particularily enjoy the music of.Being elitist promotes quality music and more thought towards music,i don't care if people agree with the things that i say,just that they think about them.And i agree that just because i don't like something does'nt mean it's automatically shit,but it can be my opinion.And i would hope that people could argue against my ideas with something better then "it's just your opinion,if you don't like it then just ignore it and stop being such a jerk",ignoring the bad things in the world is just retarded to me.
Read the lyrics to AILD's music. It's well thought out, and doesn't sound rushed. It actually has more meaning than alot of other bands out there.
"Forever your eyes will hold the memory
I saw your heart as it overtook me
We tried so hard to understand and reason
But in that one moment
In that moment I gave my heart away"
Because i would'nt consider thoose good lyrics by any stretch of the imagination.
Oh and by the way, to anybody who likes metalcore, go listen to Kalmah, Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Pantera, Ozzy Osbourne, Black sabbath etc. That stuff is real metal! If you actually believe that your gay little Killswitch Engage or AILD have musical innovation after listening to any of the bands I listed you are insane...
someone bashing metalcore.. who has slipknot in his username???
"Forever your eyes will hold the memory
I saw your heart as it overtook me
We tried so hard to understand and reason
But in that one moment
In that moment I gave my heart away"
Because i would'nt consider thoose good lyrics by any stretch of the imagination.
Comfort Betrays
"you sat and watched as i nearly destroyed myself, never had i felt so betrayed. that you would sacrifice my life. for no more than comfort. and now your love means nothing to me. you are a coward, the antithesis of a friend. take action before there is no one left to defend. For I would have stood by you. Right to the gates of hell."
They are strong lyrics. your just disecting what you think means something, but it may mean something totally different. They're from past experiences, as opposed to made up stories.
That's what music is though, Art.
I think they are metalcore. The clean vocal style, guitar tone, and use of breakdowns prevent this from being true metal. I still kinda like them, though.
You'd be surprised at how many "true metal" bands use clean vocals and breakdowns. Not that I'm disputing that their metalcore but I find it ridiculous that people use these to try and separate metalcore from other metal genera.
THIS YES!! plus I cant stand when someone thinks in order to be "heavy" a song needs Drop whatever tuning, mindless double bass triggered druming in 4/4, or awful, overused guttural vocals
Oh and by the way, to anybody who likes metalcore, go listen to Kalmah, Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Pantera, Ozzy Osbourne, Black sabbath etc. That stuff is real metal! If you actually believe that your gay little Killswitch Engage or AILD have musical innovation after listening to any of the bands I listed you are insane...
someone bashing metalcore.. who has slipknot in his username???
Slipknot isn't metalcore. They came around when metalcore was just a tickle in the sack.
For some reason, am I the only one here who likes all types of metal? From metalcore to thrash to black metal, Etc. etc. etc.
Obviously I don't like some bands, but I won't get into that.
"Forever your eyes will hold the memory
I saw your heart as it overtook me
We tried so hard to understand and reason
But in that one moment
In that moment I gave my heart away"
Because i would'nt consider thoose good lyrics by any stretch of the imagination.
Comfort Betrays
"you sat and watched as i nearly destroyed myself, never had i felt so betrayed. that you would sacrifice my life. for no more than comfort. and now your love means nothing to me. you are a coward, the antithesis of a friend. take action before there is no one left to defend. For I would have stood by you. Right to the gates of hell."
They are strong lyrics. your just disecting what you think means something, but it may mean something totally different. They're from past experiences, as opposed to made up stories.
That's what music is though, Art.
Thoose lyrics are clearly typical self pitying "someone hurt me and now i'm mad about it", theese show a lack of ability to look outside of personal circumstance and trivial the events that seem to run peoples lives.Lyrics like theese are popular because angsty,self absorbed kids can relate to them. Fantasy is great because it can be used to describe things that symbolize the greater picture and more interesting and dynamic concepts, the destruction of pre assigned values, political stances, lost values of times past,civilizations that have all but become forgotten etc.
Oh and i like some Metalcore like Converge or Botch. Just none of this new derivative " take other genres left overs" style that have gotten so popular in the last 6 years or so.
Yall need be calmin down up in here ... "I like this" "you like that" "I hate you for this" "I hate you for that" ... _____ isn't true ____ ... in fact, ____ is true ____ ... It's all debatable, grow up
I have to give Riffmast a modicum of respect for knowing the bands which provoked the advent of the metalcore sound in the '90s (Converge, Botch, Coalesce, Merauder, Zao, and Earth Crisis), but you people who are arguing with him at length need to realize that he is naught but a close-minded pissant.
I have to give Riffmast a modicum of respect for knowing the bands which provoked the advent of the metalcore sound in the '90s (Converge, Botch, Coalesce, Merauder, Zao, and Earth Crisis), but you people who are arguing with him at length need to realize that he is naught but a close-minded pissant.
I never said he was "close-minded". I even said I respect his opinion, but just dont agree.
datroman wrote:
Yall need be calmin down up in here ... "I like this" "you like that" "I hate you for this" "I hate you for that" ... _____ isn't true ____ ... in fact, ____ is true ____ ... It's all debatable, grow up
... Also, August Burns Red ...
This isnt an argument, it's a descusion. Big difference.
And I never said I hated him. I respect his opinions, and agree on some.
A discussion with opposing viewpoints involving discourse intended to persuade is an argument. You are having an argument. And you disagree with me, which means you lose by default.
"Forever your eyes will hold the memory
I saw your heart as it overtook me
We tried so hard to understand and reason
But in that one moment
In that moment I gave my heart away"
Because i would'nt consider thoose good lyrics by any stretch of the imagination.
Comfort Betrays
"you sat and watched as i nearly destroyed myself, never had i felt so betrayed. that you would sacrifice my life. for no more than comfort. and now your love means nothing to me. you are a coward, the antithesis of a friend. take action before there is no one left to defend. For I would have stood by you. Right to the gates of hell."
They are strong lyrics. your just disecting what you think means something, but it may mean something totally different. They're from past experiences, as opposed to made up stories.
That's what music is though, Art.
Thoose lyrics are clearly typical self pitying "someone hurt me and now i'm mad about it", theese show a lack of ability to look outside of personal circumstance and trivial the events that seem to run peoples lives.Lyrics like theese are popular because angsty,self absorbed kids can relate to them. Fantasy is great because it can be used to describe things that symbolize the greater picture and more interesting and dynamic concepts, the destruction of pre assigned values, political stances, lost values of times past,civilizations that have all but become forgotten etc.
I agree alot on this comment. But the reason alot of people like those lyrics is that they may have suffered through the same thing.
And don't get me wrong, the bands you've brought up are great bands, but we just don't see eye to eye on AILD.
A discussion with opposing viewpoints involving discourse intended to persuade is an argument. You are having an argument. And you disagree with me, which means you lose by default.
I was showing the lyrics as an example that they don't rush their material. How's that an argument. That's pointing something out.
And I'm not trying to make him like AILD. Just trying to defend a band I love. Not arguing. Descussing.
Notice we don't give foul remarks to eachother.
I have to give Riffmast a modicum of respect for knowing the bands which provoked the advent of the metalcore sound in the '90s (Converge, Botch, Coalesce, Merauder, Zao, and Earth Crisis), but you people who are arguing with him at length need to realize that he is naught but a close-minded pissant.
If you open your mind too much it might just fall out of your head. People need to have some standards towards the things they like and dislike,i just have different standards then many others,there is'nt anything wrong with that.Ever considered the possibility that i used to listen to this style allot,found it's flaws and thats where my opinion came from?.Why are people so annoyed and threatened when a negative opinion comes up? Why is having to think past "well i just like that band" such a terrible thing? Resorting to personal insults in a debate like this just shows a lack of chacter or understanding of the subject at hand.
Fantasy is great because it can be used to describe things that symbolize the greater picture and more interesting and dynamic concepts
Seems to me like you're taking extremes on each case. You're promoting the worst possible interpretations of AILD's lyrics to further glorify lyrics of bands of your preference.
It could just as easily be argued that the reason metal bands write "fantasy" lyrics is because that they have no connection with reality because they can't deal with real life, so they write these fantasy lyrics as a means to ignore reality.
I could quote you some lyrics from early Death and show you just how pointless they are (songs off of Scream Bloody Gore come to mind). Then I could show you lyrics off of Human and onward and show you how they fit into your description of metalcore lyrics. Many of the songs lyrical content was based off of how betrayed Chuck felt after all his old bandmates screwed him over. But you wouldn't care, because Death is "real" metal.
I don't see what the problem is about having lyrics that people can relate to. Calling people who relate to lyrics "angsty" and "self absorbed" does nothing but make anyone who says that look arrogant and egotistical. To me, music is about two things. The first is on the artist's side, which is self expression. The second is on the listener's side, which is the personal reaction the music creates. Some of us react better to lyrics about personal issues and life, and some of us react better to "fantasy" lyrics.
I see music as more of a personal thing, so of course I'm going to look for lyrics that I can relate to. Does that make me angsty and self absorbed? I sure hope not. Also, these "self pitying" lyrics are abundant in "real" metal as well. Insomnium is a fine example. Quite possibly my favorite metal band, and it's because of the lyrics as much as it is the music.
Also, I think your interpretation of the whole indie subculture is a bit ironic, because the same way they think they're hip for listening to underground bands, metalheads tend to think of themselves as being trve for listening to kvlt bands. Indie kids may gain a sense of superiority for listening to bands noone has hever heard of, but metalheads do it too. Both sides are pretty pretentious when it comes to that, imo.
You find their music to be hollow and lackluster because of how simple it is, but they find our music to be shallow and pretentious for how complex it is.
The main point that I'm trying to make is that I really hate how metalheads tend to slam whatever they don't like. They're never satisfied with just not liking something, they have to find reasons as to why something is inferior to metal.
I agree alot on this comment. But the reason alot of people like those lyrics is that they may have suffered through the same thing.
And don't get me wrong, the bands you've brought up are great bands, but we just don't see eye to eye on AILD.
That kind od my point,it's sonething that every single person in the world deals with,but it's such a small and insignificant factor.People get so self absorbed with their own relationships, making money and temporary pleasure that they forget about long term consequences and important issus in the world that actual matter to society as a whole and individuals personal developement.
And if their is one thing i've learnt,is that debates are'nt about winning or looseing,it's about learning to understand others view points and how they've gotten there.
Riffmast wrote:
And if their is one thing i've learnt,is that debates are'nt about winning or looseing,it's about learning to understand others view points and how they've gotten there.
Oh and by the way, to anybody who likes metalcore, go listen to Kalmah, Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Pantera, Ozzy Osbourne, Black sabbath etc. That stuff is real metal! If you actually believe that your gay little Killswitch Engage or AILD have musical innovation after listening to any of the bands I listed you are insane...
Pantera? Really? And your name is slipknotnskullz. That automatically destroys your credibility.
People write fantasy cause they realize that the world we live in is lacking and are trying to insert some sense of important things that are lost.What your thinking of is escapeism.
Deaths gore lyrics are a symbol of nihilsim,and destroying preconcieved values and ideals.Rather then viewing death and suffering as terrible things that should be hidden and viewed negatively.They talk about human mutilation and other topics without the emotional aspects,not assigning a rigght or wong to things.This makes people realize that everthing they believe is actually a product of the society they were raised in. Death gets viewed as something equal to life,just another natural occurance in the world,rather then some great evil.
I have no problem with personal issues,but what i have an issue with is ones that are self absorbed and talk about things that don't really matter in the end. Hate for a society that has failed you due to corruption has allot more meaning then hating some girl because they refused that second date with you.
I'm not familiar with Insomnium,but from what i know of most melodeath is that i basically see it as the same category as other pop metal bands,minus some of the classic albums.I won't defend all Metalheads,because i agree with you that lots of them act the exact same way,it's just being different for it's own sake without any thought process behind it.I've noticed personally that bands with high quality music just happen to be unpopular.Of course you always have counter examples of bands who most Metalheads love that are extremely popular, like early Judas Priest or Morbid Angel.Most metalheads(trve ones as we are called) will not abandon a band just because they have more fans,it's only when they start to degrade their music in order to appeal to the masses.
Oh and Chucks never got betrayed,he ****ed them over by cancleing a european tour when they had already arrived with the gear,so they played without him.I also don't consider anything after Spiritual Healing to be Death Metal.And chucks lyrics were never really anything special,by Symbolic they were pathetic.
Yeah Chuck was actually quite a deuche when you look at old death interviews and such.He seemed like a really selfhish prick,and then suddenly became a nice guy,while pointing fingers at evryone else for being mean and unfair.Not to say he did'nt make some good music though. And i've never heard Insomnium dude,i just know their modern melodeath like Kalmah and the likes.
Look, the debate on negative opinions yay or nay is pointless really. The fact of the matter is everyone has different tastes and thus won't like the same things. Both negative and positive feed back are important, it's when the negative feed back becomes " are shit and everything about them is generic poo sauce" things get unnecessary. Negative feedback should be constructive and open minded, with proper reasons, not expletives. /2cents
Metal this, metalcore that, nu metal hit me with his flying v axe... Who gives a crap about subgenres anyways? Metal is music, music is an art. A form of expression. Why can't it just be about the song and not about some new form of crazy named subgenre? What's next, football metal?
Debates are'nt a process for conversion,it's learning to understand other peoples view points. Giving detailed analysis on music is a very constructive thing whether it be positive or negative.And genres are good classification tools,thats about it.
It blows my mind that the majority of this comment section is civilized discussion still. I love AILD, and I think it's great what he is trying to do with Modern Rebellion. T-shirt diesigns aren't my fav, but hopefully they will add more.
genres come from the scenes of kids that listen to the bands. punk derives from punky, ****-wit kids while nu-metal or whatever comes from kids who listen to rap and metal, death metal is obviously about death and/or dying (and the vocal growls that imitate Satan). and anything with the word 'core' at the end usually means break downs. so think of metal like that and label it yourselves...
As I Lay Dying: 'Has A Lot More Depth Musically Than A Metalcore Band'
Haha... they're just typical cliche metalcore, nothing against them but the staitment is kind of selfish and bullshit! They started as metalcore and still are but their trying to stray away from these roots like they're ashamed of what they've been...
As I Lay Dying have to admit it, they're just cliche metalcore band with terrible clean vocals!
genres come from the scenes of kids that listen to the bands. punk derives from punky, ****-wit kids while nu-metal or whatever comes from kids who listen to rap and metal, death metal is obviously about death and/or dying (and the vocal growls that imitate Satan). and anything with the word 'core' at the end usually means break downs. so think of metal like that and label it yourselves...
Except Grindcore and 80's hardcore bands like Discharge don't use breakdowns.Not to mention that the rest of that statement just simplified things to a point when they're no longer correct.
I freakin hate metalcore because for one, it sucks... ALOT. Every song is the same, lyrics are all the same, all songs have the same structure, no musical ideas whatsoever just 5 simple riffs put together with anus screaming on top. But what really annoys me is that since this is the popular "pop" metal, people who don't like metal, it is simply because they think all metal is like metalcore garbage, and instantly tie metalheads with ****ing emos and shit...
Your username and the intelligence in this post fit like hand-in-glove. I'm curious as to which bands you're talking about.
Oh and by the way, to anybody who likes metalcore, go listen to Kalmah, Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Pantera, Ozzy Osbourne, Black sabbath etc. That stuff is real metal! If you actually believe that your gay little Killswitch Engage or AILD have musical innovation after listening to any of the bands I listed you are insane...
someone bashing metalcore.. who has slipknot in his username???
Think before you speak, I made this account before I was into that good music, and anyway they aren't metalcore in any sence of the word...
Oh and by the way, to anybody who likes metalcore, go listen to Kalmah, Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Pantera, Ozzy Osbourne, Black sabbath etc. That stuff is real metal! If you actually believe that your gay little Killswitch Engage or AILD have musical innovation after listening to any of the bands I listed you are insane...
Pantera? Really? And your name is slipknotnskullz. That automatically destroys your credibility.
Refer to my post above, and yes Pantera... If you don't atleast respect them leave this website for ever...
Oh and by the way, to anybody who likes metalcore, go listen to Kalmah, Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Pantera, Ozzy Osbourne, Black sabbath etc. That stuff is real metal! If you actually believe that your gay little Killswitch Engage or AILD have musical innovation after listening to any of the bands I listed you are insane...
Sorry to be the one to break the news (actually I'm not) but AILD is not "operating on the more extreme fringes of metal."
Mainstream metal probably, but that's the problem. No one knows about the heavier/better stuff.
People write fantasy cause they realize that the world we live in is lacking and are trying to insert some sense of important things that are lost.What your thinking of is escapeism.
Deaths gore lyrics are a symbol of nihilsim,and destroying preconcieved values and ideals.Rather then viewing death and suffering as terrible things that should be hidden and viewed negatively.They talk about human mutilation and other topics without the emotional aspects,not assigning a rigght or wong to things.This makes people realize that everthing they believe is actually a product of the society they were raised in. Death gets viewed as something equal to life,just another natural occurance in the world,rather then some great evil.
I have no problem with personal issues,but what i have an issue with is ones that are self absorbed and talk about things that don't really matter in the end. Hate for a society that has failed you due to corruption has allot more meaning then hating some girl because they refused that second date with you.
I'm not familiar with Insomnium,but from what i know of most melodeath is that i basically see it as the same category as other pop metal bands,minus some of the classic albums.I won't defend all Metalheads,because i agree with you that lots of them act the exact same way,it's just being different for it's own sake without any thought process behind it.I've noticed personally that bands with high quality music just happen to be unpopular.Of course you always have counter examples of bands who most Metalheads love that are extremely popular, like early Judas Priest or Morbid Angel.Most metalheads(trve ones as we are called) will not abandon a band just because they have more fans,it's only when they start to degrade their music in order to appeal to the masses.
I have a couple things to say.
First, i agree with something that pretty much every person here has said, except for Jon-Jon_ATF,( he pissed me off with his idiotic over-simplfying of genres), and I read almost the entire thing.
Second, I applaud almost everyone for keeping it civil, you don"t find many conversations where your opinion matters on UG.
And third, and this is directed at RiffMast, and please don"t be angry, i like what you've said, but have you ever got dumped by a girl before? it hurts, man, and at the time it seems like the most important thing in the world. Maybe not to you, but to the person writing the song it is very important, which all falls back on opinions.
oh, and that slipknot guy is kinda a dick. To many insults at the beginning of his posts.
I just find it funny how whenever most bands "progress" it's when they start make their sound closer to what ever is trendy at the time, and yet the bands who actually do new and inventive things get shunned by most people because it does'nt fall into their safe zone with music.I clicked on the link because it said"New AILD has more emotional depth then metalcore" i was interested to see if i would agree with this,and i don't,i think they're just as bad as ever and therefore voiced my opinion about it.People not speaking up when a band is shit just helps keep popular music in a terrible state.
You basement dwellers make me laugh. To quote you in a nice manner, darn you sir and the nipple you're still sucking on.
Chaz-6(sic)6 :
For some reason, am I the only one here who likes all types of metal? From metalcore to thrash to black metal, Etc. etc. etc.
Obviously I don't like some bands, but I won't get into that.
I just find it funny how whenever most bands "progress" it's when they start make their sound closer to what ever is trendy at the time, and yet the bands who actually do new and inventive things get shunned by most people because it does'nt fall into their safe zone with music.I clicked on the link because it said"New AILD has more emotional depth then metalcore" i was interested to see if i would agree with this,and i don't,i think they're just as bad as ever and therefore voiced my opinion about it.People not speaking up when a band is shit just helps keep popular music in a terrible state.
You basement dwellers make me laugh. To quote you in a nice manner, darn you sir and the nipple you're still sucking on.
So because i can make a good arguement and actualy think about things i'm a basement dweller? Nice arguememt there buddy,the good old: "hurr derp, book learnin faggot with yer fancy werds,go outside and stop thinkin so much",and as far as the nipple comment.A grown intelligent person would be happy to have a good discussion on things,a child would be the one throwing insults out instead of actually using a valid point to why the person is wrong.
And too Masmal: Yes of course i have and when it happens, it sucks so much,but people should'nt be wallowing in sadness about thoose kind of things.And have to realize that it's not that important in the big picture, and to focus on the world around them and not their own little emotional problems.The selfishness and lack of thought about things is one of the reasons we've inflated our race far beyond what the earth can handle.
Just because it's a 'core' genre doesn't mean it's mainstream and shitty...This band, and many other ones are actually good and not mainstream compared to some. AILD is far from mainstream. If you want to criticize metalcore, do it for a bands like The Devil Wears Prada or something.
Well then, B.B. King is generic blues, Metallica is generic thrash, Sex Pistols are generic punk, Hendrix is generic rock,and Deicide is generic death metal.
Oh and by the way, to anybody who likes metalcore, go listen to Kalmah, Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Pantera, Ozzy Osbourne, Black sabbath etc. That stuff is real metal! If you actually believe that your gay little Killswitch Engage or AILD have musical innovation after listening to any of the bands I listed you are insane...
ya so i listen to those bands all the time(i dont know who hasnt) as well as stuff that is much heavier than all of those bands. If you just want to hate everything that can be associated with the word metalcore, thats fine, i really dont care. but dont try to make it sound like people are insane if they like any bands that can be associated with metalcore, because there actually are some decent bands in the genre(not saying they are in general). try listening to an ocean between us and the powerless rise, there is some really good music in both albums, and to me its definitely worth listening to once in a while
I don't have a problem with AILD, or core in general. If you like them, more power to you. My biggest beef is how over saturated the genre is by bands who bring absolutely nothing new to the table. I'm sorry, but you can bite riffs and melodies from At The Gates all you want, but adding a breakdown and clean section doesn't make you original. I just don't have time for a metal band that focuses on hooks in 2010 and yet doesn't make real strides to improve on the style. There are lots of bands that manage to be catchy AND interesting. Death metal is over saturated as well, but at least the genre lends itself to experimentation by nature.
People like to confuse interesting songwriting with arbitrarily mixing all kinds of dynamics for the sake of it, and it's the same side of the coin for modern bands sounding progressive as well. Most tech death/deathcore bands don't use the level of technicality to any kind of advantage that would make them seem original compared to bands that did the style first (and better).
Describing that all "Metalcore" sounds the same is purely ignorant, I'm pretty sure many people think that all Thrash Metal sounds the same but about everyone of you would comment back and say that they're retarded. Same situation here. I used to think all Metalcore sounds the same, but once you actually dive into a subgenre, you realize they dynamics of it. As I Lay Dying has really progressed as a band, and if you don't like this type of music then I don't see the point in commenting in this thread, you just don't like the genre so you're going to be bias against it.
As for the interview, I love it! It's really nice to see Tim's perspective on each album. Keep it up, Robert!
Describing that all "Metalcore" sounds the same is purely ignorant, I'm pretty sure many people think that all Thrash Metal sounds the same but about everyone of you would comment back and say that they're retarded. Same situation here. I used to think all Metalcore sounds the same, but once you actually dive into a subgenre, you realize they dynamics of it. As I Lay Dying has really progressed as a band, and if you don't like this type of music then I don't see the point in commenting in this thread, you just don't like the genre so you're going to be bias against it.
As for the interview, I love it! It's really nice to see Tim's perspective on each album. Keep it up, Robert!
So what, you liking them doesn't make you biased? If you guys want an AILD/metalcore circle jerk with no contrary opinions, start a Facebook page.
I really don't get all of this hate for AILD. The only thing I agree with is that the clean vocals are really generic, but are used well on a few occasions (most notably Anodyne Sea.) I really could do without them at all though.
And don't you dare say I don't know metal just because I like them. I love bands like Strapping Young Lad, Opeth, PTH, BTBAM, Napalm Death, Dark Tranquility, Iron Maiden... But I also love AILD. Is that really such a big deal?
I also like classic rock, alt rock, grunge... i understand there's more to music than just metal. People need to quit being so damn critical
I just find it funny how whenever most bands "progress" it's when they start make their sound closer to what ever is trendy at the time, and yet the bands who actually do new and inventive things get shunned by most people because it does'nt fall into their safe zone with music.I clicked on the link because it said"New AILD has more emotional depth then metalcore" i was interested to see if i would agree with this,and i don't,i think they're just as bad as ever and therefore voiced my opinion about it.People not speaking up when a band is shit just helps keep popular music in a terrible state.
I love bands that are not even close to "popular". But giving a negative opinion isn't gonna change another persons, or even the actual band for that matter.
I couldn't care less about the state of popular music. I just pay attention to the bands I love.
And yes, AILD's music is getting heavier and a little more on the thrashy side. How's that following a trend? They're music is harder than their first couple of albums. And I wouldn't be suprised if the next is harder than TPR.
Listen to the songs like "condamned" and "within destruction", now those are circle pit anthems.
I definitely agree Condemned is probably my favorite song on that album. That intro riff is absolutely Flawless brutality.
TsarBomba wrote:
PolishHedbanger wrote:
Describing that all "Metalcore" sounds the same is purely ignorant, I'm pretty sure many people think that all Thrash Metal sounds the same but about everyone of you would comment back and say that they're retarded. Same situation here. I used to think all Metalcore sounds the same, but once you actually dive into a subgenre, you realize they dynamics of it. As I Lay Dying has really progressed as a band, and if you don't like this type of music then I don't see the point in commenting in this thread, you just don't like the genre so you're going to be bias against it.
As for the interview, I love it! It's really nice to see Tim's perspective on each album. Keep it up, Robert!
So what, you liking them doesn't make you biased? If you guys want an AILD/metalcore circle jerk with no contrary opinions, start a Facebook page.
You can talk about opinions all you want to and you can not like this band or anything associated with metal at all but to be completely honest your opinion or anyone else's negative opinion does not change the musical theory used to write The Powerless Rise. It has got to be one of the most technical albums I've heard in a long time. Whether or not you like it has absolutely nothing to do with that and that makes you (and anyone else that has that opinion) ignorant. The intro riff in condemned is pretty difficult and for me I know I couldn't make something like that for myself ever anyone else probably but as far as my skill goes I couldn't. As people these guys have such awesome personalities and as a christian myself they give our faith hope because that is what christianity is all about. Faith in God and Jesus and living according to that without bashing other people. \m/ Long live As I lay Dying.
Here is my third cent added to my 2 cents already, when really looked at DEEPLY and not just passed over this album is AILD's master of puppets. (Flame on....)
OH and upon reading every other comment ANYONE that says AILD is and always will be metalcore OBVIOUSLY didn't read the interview. Tim explained that in depth. AILD started as definite metalcore. KsE started in 99' AILD started in 2000 So when it comes down to "generic cliche metalcore" I just don't see how they are copying anyone. Name one metalcore band that sounds ANYTHING like AILD and I'll concede to your opinion. The Powerless Rise is NOT a metalcore album. Get that in your heads. AILD WAS metalcore.
Riffmast, I'm sorry, but you claiming to be all knowing about metal makes me laugh so hard I almost pissed myself. METAL isn't about anything you described aside from being loud and angry. Just leave.
KataklysmDeth is right, TPR has metalcore elements but is almost more thrash than anything else. Also they have many things going for them. Although the clean vocals suck, you can't deny Tim Lambesis's vocals are fantastic.
And as far as metalcore elements go, yes there are a few breakdowns, but listen to "Anodyne Sea" if you haven't already... that breakdown proves that AILD are still one of the best in the genre when they utilize it. That breakdown is placed and performed PERFECTLY.
Riffmast, I'm sorry, but you claiming to be all knowing about metal makes me laugh so hard I almost pissed myself. METAL isn't about anything you described aside from being loud and angry. Just leave.
Actually the stuff i talked about are pretty common ideas in the Metal community(more so the underground then the poppy flavour of the week stuff of course),you can find people talking about the same stuff as me in tons of interviews of death/black metal bands(i'll admit my take on it is a bit more extreme then the average one).If all you see Metal as is being loud and angry then you don't really have a good understanding of the genre or music in general,sorry.Just try to think about theese things a bit more,it's very beneficial for apreciating and understanding music as a whole.
Riffmast, I'm sorry, but you claiming to be all knowing about metal makes me laugh so hard I almost pissed myself. METAL isn't about anything you described aside from being loud and angry. Just leave.
Actually the stuff i talked about are pretty common ideas in the Metal community(more so the underground then the poppy flavour of the week stuff of course),you can find people talking about the same stuff as me in tons of interviews of death/black metal bands(i'll admit my take on it is a bit more extreme then the average one).If all you see Metal as is being loud and angry then you don't really have a good understanding of the genre or music in general,sorry.Just try to think about theese things a bit more,it's very beneficial for apreciating and understanding music as a whole.
lots of prog metal bands explore how emotions other than anger can be put into the music. Bands like The Devin Townsend Project, Ikuinen Kaamos, Barren Earth , and (sometimes) Opeth pull this off flawlessly
Pretty much all Metal goes far beyond just anger,anyone who thinks that it's just about being loud(lol believe it or not you can listen to Metal quietly) and anger just really has'nt delved into the genre much.
I liked As I Lay Dying better on their first few albums than in any of their new stuff. Shadows are Security was an utter masterpiece: excellent production and HUGE sound (drop Adam D and BRING BACK ANDY SNEAP!), phenomenal writing, sweet riffs, come nice singing, and incredible breakdowns that never get old. They were metalCORE. Which was sweet. Now they are TRYING to steer away from that, and it shows. They are putting in thrash for the sake of not being "core" and it doesn't feel natural. to me AILD is about great lyrics/screaming, beautiful riffs, and killer footwork from Jordan(And I mean start-stop patterns, not just straight generic "kick as fast as I can" thrash parts). If you're good at breakdowns, u should stick with em, not TRY and eliminate them (The powerless rise).
Regardless of how great a band is, or how great their music is, there will always be haters. I personally adore As I Lay Dying and feel as though there not yet exists a metal band that I would choose over As I Lay Dying. I love the band's atmosphere, and Morals they live by. The only thing I don't like is how Tim sorta acted like he felt their music was superior to a wide category of other bands. He should of just said, we don't care for labels, it's only about enjoying the music, but its not that big a deal I guess. He musta got caught up and said something stupid, or not well thought out. We're human, we all say stuff we don't think about and regret later.
Regardless, I have always been a huge fan of the beatles, Eric Clapton, Iron Maiden, The Who, and so many other bands like them. The variety of music I listen to Is ridiculous. I actually had never listened to scream-esque music before my friend showed me As I Lay Dying. But I immediately warmed up to their style, and found myself loving them more and more.
I know everyone has opinions, and everyone likes their own style of music. But I think if people look beyond their own biases, they can agree that a certain band, or artist is talented in their category.
I don't listen to rap, but I think eminem raps about what should be rapped about. And even though Lady Gaga is crazy, she writes some pretty sick beats, and some pretty nice lyrics for the genre.
But certain bands like Insane Clown Posse,.. I just can't listen to, or say anything nice about, so I understand how someone could be the same with As I Lay Dying. If the person is not into that music, and can't stomach it, they're gonna say bad things. Humans can't keep their mouth shut, because I'm sure all humans believe their opinion is fact, regardless of who they are. I'm sure my opinion sounds ridiculous and biased to some other people as well. And I'm sure when I re-read this post tomorrow, I will be embarrassed at how retarded I came off.
But In all honesty. My ears orgasm at As I Lay Dying's work. That's just how my body responds to their music. So I'm going to say positive things about them and support them. The same way I would support my fav football team. So there. My rant Is done. Night' All. )
first of all slipknot nskulls you have not a clue of what ur talking about cuz for one metalcore in my eyes is metal with a little rap such as rapcore a fusion with rock bands such as linkin park and pod if you dare say linkin park sucks ill take it offencivly cuz you really dont know anything and im a maggot your form of political music nonsence is complete bogus so there fore go study some music and do your research
This is for all the people who say they aren't real metal because they use clean vocals
ever heard of iron maiden, judas priest, black sabbath, dio, all used clean singing but they're the first bands that come to mind when metal comes up.
This is for all the people who say they aren't real metal because they use clean vocals
ever heard of iron maiden, judas priest, black sabbath, dio, all used clean singing but they're the first bands that come to mind when metal comes up.
okay a lot of these commentaries on this article is about how AILD isn't as good as the article presents them.
i don't know which genius bands people have found, but i can't manage to find the same.
i have listened to so much shit, to find something new to expand my musical horizon, but if I finally find a band with both killer riffs and a drummer that can play decent, the vocalist screams like: if he would stop it would show he was tonedeaf.
and if i finally find a band with a nice vocalist the riffs are way too melodic power metal for me.
i don't think AILD is the best band atm, but it gives me hope to see a band who can make hard music without destroying the music.
and for those who say AILD is still just a metalcore band, that's not true.
because they're a fusion between Thrash metal, Melodic Death and Metalcore.
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