Continuing our new series of interviews with producers and engineers, this latest installment features renowned producer and guitarist Daniel Lanois. In this interview with Joe Matera, Daniel Lanois discusses his recording approach, working with The Edge and his passion for experimenting.
UG: You tend to enjoy recording with unorthodox methods, such as setting up studios in different locations?
Daniel Lanois: Yes, I like to build a location for a project. You can think of it almost as if I’m building a set for a play. With that kind of dedication, it sets a certain tone for the project. I wouldn’t say no to a conventional recording studio, but I like building a location simply for a project for that reason as it forces everybody to focus and feel what the commitment is all about.
You once summed up your whole approach to recording by stating, “A good performance will override any production idea or sonic idea that you can have.”
Yeah what that comment was about is that I only ever look for that magic moment in a performance. And what I usually try and do is to be well prepared so that I don’t miss those moments. So I put in a lot of time into building my sound station. Like I have a bass station and a keyboard station, and I make sure I have a great vocal sound all the time. I will also try to amp up the room too with a good sound so that when the inspiration comes, I will make sure that I capture it.
That approach you just outlined is fully displayed on U2’s The Unforgettable Fire album that you co-produced with Brian Eno…
Yes, for that album we had a really great location, we recorded it at Slane Castle just outside of Dublin. We totally weren’t expecting the results that one of the rooms in that castle brought us. It was a book library and consequently, it was very dead because the walls were covered in these big old books. It was a tall room, maybe 40 feet by 60 feet, so it was this big box. And we found that although there were some much more beautiful rooms around the castle that had a more grand sound, surprisingly we found that, that room gave us the best results. So consequently we ended up making a lot of that record in that room. And that was the room where I really worked on the drum sound with Larry Mullens, Jr. that became so integral to the album’s sound.
On The Unforgettable Fire, how much direction did you give The Edge in regards to his guitar tones and approach?
The Edge had a great guitar sound already. Up to that point, he had used a Memory Man Echo machine which had become very much part of his sound. But by the time we had set up in the castle, we had introduced another echo box, one that allowed for slightly slower grooves. I would not say that we invented a guitar sound for The Edge because he already had it, but I will say, we honed in on what he already had and expanded upon it.
"We ended up making a lot of that record in a book library. And that was the room where I worked on the drum sound with Larry Mullens, Jr. that became so integral to the album’s sound."
Oh yeah, there is a common line that exists with guitar players, and part of my skill that never gets talked about that much is that I am highly musically, and that I can work on arrangements with people. I automatically fall into that rank with them and so speaking their language, it helps with honing in an arrangement, because I will treat the thing with respect and know how to make musical suggestions to another guitar player. This has been largely how my relationship works with another guitar player. The thing with U2 is that, as our work progressed and as we did more albums, I did more playing with the Edge all the time. I suppose even at The Unforgettable Fire period, that kind of communication we had, was very much on the rise.
Your use of space and ambiance is part and parcel of your trademark production; the less is more approach really.
I like to use the photographic term called ‘depth of field’ and there are many ways of achieving that. If you record several instruments at once, you get an automatic depth of field. And if there is an inter play amongst players, you tend to get a self balancing act. And that is when things get really great and interesting, and where you can do so much with the overdubs and technology.
While you embrace digital technology, do you still very much utilize analog technology as well?
Well at the moment I am using a digital multi-track machine now called RADAR. I have been using that for years now and that works very well for me. What is so great about that is that I can quickly copy a multi-track and get on with some deconstruction without breaking up the original work. What we normally do in the studio is we will take the song to a certain place. And then we will take a break from it and start thinking of how we can have a different angle on it. And that may mean erasing some tracks in order to do this, but the digital side of things will allow me to just press one button and I will get a copy and it will allow me to go and work on the next version of the song. In regards to the analog equipment, I still use all my favorite tools from the different eras I have worked through. So if I had a good microphone or a good delay box, or a good distortion box, I have made sure that I maintained them so that they remain in my tool box. That way I can just go back to that sound if I need to.
The technological advances made in recording have made it possible for anyone to have a home studio now.
Yeah, I think it is fantastic what has happened. I think the ratio is probably the same as it always was in terms of people’s talents and vision. But what I think is wonderful about it all, is that there is some kid out there who really has a vision, and a thirst to go after something special without spending too much money.
For those guitarists whom have home studios or are involved in recording, can you offer tips on how to achieve great tones?
First up, as I have mentioned I have the best results when the room sounds great. And I have worked in all kinds of rooms over the years that have served me well. Recently, I got a really good result from this big house in California where we used primarily two Fender amplifiers, from the late 1950s, you know, those Tweed amps with the blue speakers. And the guitar we were using too happened to have a split pickup where the three bass strings went to one amp, and the three treble strings went to another amp. It is something I had never done before and it was pretty amazing and revealing as I could EQ one amp differently from the other. Consequently, I have asked Seymour Duncan to build me a couple guitar pickups that have that type of wiring. I am excited about pursuing that route further, like I want to try putting the three bass strings through a bass amp and the three treble strings, through a small Fender Champ that’s going through a fuzz box as well. I like the idea of challenging all the existing layouts for guitar amps. Sometimes a tiny amp will go a long way, like having a Fender Champ very close to your ears, can get you a really beautiful tone. And that is because it is a single speaker, so the one point source will have a nice fat full bodied tone. There you have what are just two approaches of many.
How has being a guitarist shaped your career as a producer?
It is pretty much the whole thing behind what I do with producing. Obviously you need recording skills and you have to understand the signal path of sounds and so on. But that is stuff you can learn out of books and from this and that. But one thing about being a guitar player is that I can get to places with musicians very quickly, something I couldn’t do if I wasn’t one. It is really part of what I bring to the table as a producer.
You recently released your new project Black Dub, which features a mixture of dub, blues and rock. Will this be the musical route you’ll be exploring more in future?
Yes, Black Dub is a fantastic project for me because of all the characters I have worked with. I am thinking of it almost as if I’m designing parts to the characters of a play because the talent is so amazing. It allows me to carve out a direction relative to what my characters have to offer. It is an interesting way to write and in anticipation of what they’re [musicians] going to do. Trixie [Whitley, Black Dub vocalist] is such a talent where she comes from this rhythm and blues world. And it is a world that I have been interested in for a long time but have never pursued because I never had the project.
"I like to use the photographic term called ‘depth of field’ and there are many ways of achieving that."
Neil and I remained loyal to a simple philosophy which was for Neil to be just himself. He initially suggested an acoustic record but as we delved into it, it became more and more electric all the time. And that is where we discovered that guitar sound I mentioned earlier, the split guitar pickup. Even in its limitation as an approach, we were able to take a different angle, I even used a cheap DJ box that produced a bass sound, like an octave box really, and I put that on Neil’s guitar. It worked like a charm half the time but where the bass box didn’t track, I supplemented it with a set of pedals. It has a very electronic bass bottom end on that record with a very overdriven top. It is fascinating as it is almost hip-hop in bass. I am very pleased to where we got to on that record sonically.
Out of all the albums you have done, which do you think defines who you are?
It would be U2’s Achtung Baby [1991] album as it is fascinating in its innovation. It was done at a time when Brian Eno, The Edge and myself were very curious about trying all kinds of different angles. We were processing everything back then, everything went through some kind of box or speaker down the hall and you can really hear the originality in that body of work as a result of our experimentation. It largely a head space where if you go in with the view of creating new sounds, then you will.
Have you got any personal favorites of all the albums you have produced?
There are certain records that take on a direction and you then sort of run along with them. And they can be fabulously inventive like Bob Dylan’s Time Out Of Mind [1997] record. We had so many people in the room, that recording came together on its own, in its own form.
Finally, what are you currently working on?
I just built a studio in Jamaica and am starting to compose some new music. I am working on some instrumental music that I am very excited about. That is often the case with me though, where I’ll start with an instrumental but then will add words afterwards. So Jamaica is a new location. I have actually been in Jamaica for a long time but I have only set up the studio a few weeks ago. So we’ll see what comes out of that. There is also talk of making a record with The Neville Brothers.
Interview by Joe Matera
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