On Shallow Life, Lacuna Coil’s fifth album, the Italian band decided to record in an American studio in order to more fully explore the sounds that might be available in a U.S. recording facility. The album, therefore, explodes with swimming synth lines, throbbing guitars, and vocals ranging from the heroic to the hellish. Guitarist Cristiano Migliore talks about the record and how success has brought them the spoils of war: Recording in better studios; landing more high-profile tours; and generally finding more people interested in the music.
UG: You’ve gotten a lot of exposure since the Karmacode record. How has life changed for you? With more success, would you say that things get easier?
Cristiano Migliore: Since Karmacode, actually things haven’t changed that much. Well of course, they have improved and we have done so many tours supporting it. That also, of course, benefited us. To be honest with you, it’s not like we can now afford a Ferrari or are flying a helicopter or anything like that. Things have been going very well. For example, when we started the first tour for Karmacode, we were supporting Rob Zombie, which was a very good tour. Now the first tour for Shallow Life, the upcoming album, it’s actually supporting Disturbed, which is probably twice as big and maybe more. So we maybe might not notice a lot in our personal lives or the way that people perceive us, but we see this from these kind of tours that are offered to us. So it means that probably the promoters or the media or everybody sees us as a bigger band, although it’s not that we sell more records or anything like that – not yet at least. The album is not out. So we’ll see. We’ll see what happens when the album is released. So far actually on this tour, everything has been going great. The reaction is actually very good. We’ll see what happens, if anything really drastically changes when the album comes out.
You mentioned Disturbed, and you guys also are on the Music As A Weapon Tour. You’ve done quite a few major tours like Ozzfest in the pat. Have you learned to become a better performing band in terms of how to work an audience? Watching bands like Disturbed, do their techniques rub off on you?
Oh, yeah. Of course. Every time we tour with somebody, whether it’s a bigger band or a smaller band, there is always something you can learn from them. You just have to keep your mind open and check and see what works with the people, with the crowd. It’s something that we’ve always done. It always paid off. When we started, we were just very embarrassed or very nervous about going onstage and playing in front of people. Right now, of course, it happens still a little bit, but we have that confidence that allows us to go on and be professional. We’ll take the situation according to what happens with the crowd and what their reaction is and so on. So ultimately it’s always learning for us. It comes from learning. You tour with Ozzy. You tour for Ozzfest. You do it for Zombie. All these tours, of course, they help us, improving the way we are onstage and the way we perform. Also meeting new musicians always inspires you. You want to try and do more. You learn more and be better at what you’re doing. It’s always a great experience in my opinion.
You actually performed “Spellbound” during the Australian tour. What is it like when you first present a new song. “Spellbound” is not a straight-up rock tune and is a little off-center. How did it go?
When we were thinking about which song to perform for the upcoming album, we didn’t want to do anything that was too different from what we had done in the past. “Spellbound” was a good in-between first single. It was something that the old fans could relate to, but it’s a little more maybe mainstream in a way. Although it’s not like pop or anything. People who don’t know Lacuna Coil, if they listen to a song like that, they’re not going to be, “Oh, it’s too heavy or whatever.” If we actually played “I Survive” or whatever, it would probably be a little bit more difficult. The reaction has been great. Of course, we were very nervous about playing a new song, especially after three years of touring for Karmacode. Playing a new song is always great on one hand because you can’t wait to actually play new material. On the other hand, you don’t know – especially because the album is not out yet – how the people are going to take it. Are they going to like it? Are they going to hate it? You can rehearse as many times as you want in the rehearsal, but playing it live is actually a different thing. I must say that the reactions have been great so far. People are really liking the new stuff, although they don’t even know it. Also the thing is that most of the people who come to the Disturbed tour, the Music As A Weapon, they don’t know who we are. They probably have heard of us, but it’s just a small minority that comes to the show just to see us. So playing new songs and old songs is really no different. We actually see by playing these songs in front of these people who don’t know us, that they like the new songs just as much as they like the old ones because they don’t know which ones are old and which ones are new. I think the setlist we’re playing is very balanced, and people are liking the new stuff very much. It’s a very good sign for us.
“Spellbound” is one of the few songs on the album with a guitar solo. There were maybe two or three solos on the Karmacode album at most as well. Has there ever been a desire to play more solos?
Since we have a lot of stuff going on in our songs and have like six people with vocals and keyboards and so on, it’s always hard to be able to stick a solo in any of our songs. It’s not like we don’t like doing it. I probably told you this last time as well. We only do it if we think the solo helps improve the song. Like you said, we’re not the guitar players who want to play solos all the time because sometimes it could be too much, especially in our kind of music. It’s not really necessary. We like to work on the guitars because there are a lot of guitar parts in every song. But as far as solos, we only do it if it’s going to work great. In this album we tried to do it a little bit more. “Spellbound” has a solo. “Unchained” has a solo. There’s another small solo in “I Won’t Tell You” and so on. We actually recorded three other songs that didn’t end up the album, which all have solos. So maybe someday hopefully people will be able to hear them. We’re going to do it only if we think it’s going to be great. It will fit and will bring something to the song. That’s something that we’ve learned to do. We don’t want to overdo it like, “Oh, let’s do a solo because we have an empty part.” It just doesn’t work. It’s got to be something that really brings the song to the next level if you know what I mean.
"Every time we tour with somebody, whether it’s a bigger band or a smaller band, there is always something you can learn from them."
That’s the thing. It’s not like we don’t want to do them because we don’t like them or because we’re not able. We think really with so much stuff going on in all of our songs, sometimes only recording a solo because we feel like it is probably not going to raise the song and make it better.
In our last conversation regarding Karmacode you said, “On each album we’ve recorded before Karmacode, there was always something that we weren’t very happy with guitar-sound wise. With Karmacode, since we actually had the time to work on the sound a lot more than in the past, we were able to find some really good tones.” How would you describe this record? I imagine that you had even more time. I know that you recorded out here at NRG Studio with Don Gilmore.
What I told you about Karmacode is still true. I didn’t know yet how much better recording Shallow Life would be. Recording in L.A. for sure gives you a lot more possibilities. Most of our endorsements are based there, so we could ask for pretty much anything we wanted. They would deliver it to the studio. So we could try many different amps or cabinets and so on. If you want to rent something just to experiment a little bit, you just have to pick up the phone and make a phone call. It’s very easy. It’s a totally different thing than what we’re used to. Recording is Europe is great, and there are many good studios. Recording in L.A. is probably the best thing you can do because there is so much stuff around there. We actually ended up using probably six or seven amps, some we rented and some we got from our endorser Line 6. For the guitars, we only used our own ESP SC-607Bs that we have been using for years. We really spent a lot of time trying to find the right sound for each song. Don was very good at helping us with that because he has huge experience. So we just had to think about, “Oh, how should this song or particular sound be?” Then we would work and combine different amps and so on. The possibilities were really a lot bigger than they were during the Karmacode sessions. It was a great experience. Recording in a studio like that is really something that you should be able to do every time you go record.
What made you decide to work with Don Gilmore this time around? I know you had previously worked with Waldemar Sorychta. Were there specific records that you had heard Don do that led you to believe he would be a good fit for Lacuna Coil?
In the beginning we weren’t really thinking to work with him. We weren’t even thinking about a producer in particular. While we were writing these songs, it was obvious the direction was going to be a little different than what it has been in the past. To work with another metal producer, Waldemar was perfect to record Comalies, Karmacode, and all of these albums. They worked out great. But because of this new direction, the songs are a little more mainstream and a little more rock. We felt like we need to work maybe with somebody else who had a different kind of experience in a different genre. We started looking around and seeing who would be good for this kind of music. Don was one of the names that popped up, so we got in touch with him. We sent him a few demos, and he really liked us since the beginning. We didn’t even change that much from those demos. Of course, when we started working seriously in preproduction, we just like cut or made some part longer. But the songs are very close to what they used to be in the demos. I think he’s great at bringing out the best of you. He sees what the intention is, and he helps you get to that point, which is really good. He’s also a great sound engineer. He ended up mixing the album as well. While we were recording, he would always suggest stuff here and there and try to make a difference. We would always talk about it and try to come up with the best possible result, which I think in the end worked out great. Even more than Karmacode this time, we had more time for sure and were really listening to all the songs. We actually entered the studio with over 20 different ideas for songs, which is like huge for us. Usually we get there with 12 songs and 2 or 3 more that are not even finished yet. This time we ended up recording 15 songs, 12 of which are going to be on the album and three are going to be used later as bonus material or something. Going in and having all this stuff to work with really makes things a lot easier. You can take riffs from a song and try to combine them with other ones. Don was really great because he could always suggest very interesting changes that actually in the end worked out. Not really like huge things, but minor details that actually made the songs a lot better. Things that you don’t really think about, but then you’re like, “Wow, that actually works a lot better than before.”
“Underdog” has a massive guitar tone and you can kind of hear the 7th string doing its thing. How did you create that sound? Is that your signature sound?
We always try to look for the perfect sound for that song. So “Underdog” is kind of a heavier song, so we really wanted to have that deep, low end, mean guitar sound for the rhythm. We tried different things. We tried Line 6. We tried Bogner amps. We tried combining all the different cabinets, and it’s really been a process of finding the right sound for that song. We would try different things like different tunings and different strings. In the end we would never be satisfied result and then record it. Then we might add a different sound as well on top of it and combine them. So in the end the song is like two different guitars playing the same thing with different sounds, making it that way, the way it is. I can’t even tell you what sound we used for that song. I can’t even remember. We worked on like researching the perfect sound for each song. It’s something that we’ve never done before. We usually would stick to two or three different sounds that we’d use throughout the whole album, which it’s okay. It worked at the time, but if you can actually spend more time on finding the right sound, I think it makes it so much better.
What about the song “The Pain”? Is that a shuffle?
Yeah.
Did you know that all these various instruments would be flying in and out during that song?
It always depends on the song. For “The Pain” in particular, that was one of the songs that Marco, our bass player, wrote. Working on the arrangements as well as the keyboards and stuff, usually you start from a guitar part or a keyboard part and so on. Then you start adding layers and so on. This shuffle thing is because we love to listen to so many kinds of music. It’s something different than what we usually play, but that doesn’t mean we can’t be inspired by it and try to do the same kind of thing. The song was nice, and we like this kind of tempo, this beat, the shuffle thing. We just ended up doing it. Cristina came up with a great vocal line for it, and we just kept on going and trying to add things here and there. We would take things off if they didn’t work. It’s always like that. We do this for every song we write. Because we took an entire year off after the end of the Karmacode touring cycle to write the new songs, we had a lot of time to experiment and to try new solutions that maybe in the past we couldn’t because we didn’t have enough time. So that’s why we have so many different songs with different moods and styles.
Does the song “Wide Awake” feature an acoustic guitar?
Uh-huh.
It has that dark feeling going on, and it builds into the chorus really nicely.
You should have heard the demo of that song. It was completely different.
What about “The Maze”? It starts with almost a Middle Eastern or Native American vibe, and then it goes into that big guitar riff. Were those two parts together originally?
It’s always a matter of trying out different things. I think the guitar riff was there first. Then Cristina came up with this chant that actually fit perfectly with the part. It’s something that we’ve always done, though. People ask us sometimes about the Arabic influence in our music, but it’s probably due to the fact that Italian music is very much influenced by Arabic influence. Even though we don’t play the typical Italian music, we’re still used to listening to it all the time. Without even thinking about it, sometimes you just come up with these things that actually work out very well for our music. It sometimes it gives it more variety. You can experiment with a lot of things and it will still be part of your music heritage somehow. Sometimes it makes things so different just because of a little detail like that.
The title track features piano, strings, and is a ballad. It’s unusual to have a song like that is selected for the title track. It’s a brave thing to do.
We were actually wondering it while we were recording the album. Your fans could maybe not like something like that because it’s too different. At the same time, it’s also what we are. We’ve always done electronic songs with strings and maybe not a lot of guitars in them and stuff. It’s always a weird thing because we like so many different kinds of music. Obviously when you come up with a lot of songs, when you play live, people are going to want to listen to the heavier stuff. Live is better to like to jump. So a song like that is maybe very mellow. It has like a very nice atmosphere, I think. It just came out like that. From a vocal end, that’s what Cristina came up with. Initially it had guitars and everything. It was probably very similar to “The Pain” or to “Wide Awake” in terms of the song it used to be. It just changed because we didn’t want to have three songs that were kind of in the same range. So we tried to work in a totally different direction, and this is the result. We were very surprised ourselves, to be honest. Like, “Is this going to work?” Listening to it a lot it was like, “Wow, this is great. We need to put it on the album.” We have so many songs, and you have to choose between 15 different songs and take it down to 12. It’s always hard. “Shallow Life” was really one of those songs that we felt like, “Wow, this has to be on the album.”
"Playing a new song is always great because you can’t wait to actually play new material."
I don’t even know. We changed so many things. For the first time in years since we started, this album was really written by everybody. Everybody came up with ideas and changes for songs that we had. It’s hard to remember all the spots. We spent a lot of time in the rehearsal room working on the vocal line or the guitars and the bass. Some things changed while we were in the studio, and we made them better and so on. I don’t remember if it was Marco or me or Maus or whatever. We had so much stuff to work with and so many things we ended up changing from the beginning when we started writing these songs. Honestly I really don’t remember who did that, but I’m sure we all worked on it together and agreed on it being great for that part.
Another thing you’ve been able to work in beautifully is having both a female and male singer. The way that the vocals are mixed, is that a process that has just evolved?
It’s something that since the beginning, we started like that, as a band and not as a band supporting a lead singer or something like that. Actually when we started, Cristina was just supposed to maybe a backing vocalist. Because she was so good, we decided to try these things with two voices, which actually worked out very well in the end. It’s almost a matter of how you think of yourself as a band. If you let people think that there’s a lead singer and then maybe somebody playing with her, then that’s what is going to happen. If you actually present yourself as a band like we did, then people are not going to have any doubts. We’re a band and Cristina is a part of it. She’s a very important part of it, but she’s not the only one. Without Cristina, we would be nothing. Without us, she would be nothing, too. We work very well together because of these things. We’re very conscious about this. We know exactly what it means and how it works. Obviously if she is going to be on a cover of a magazine, we’re not going to be pissed off or anything because it’s only going to have the band go on and have more coverage or something. At the same time, we’re not going to put her on the cover of a magazine wearing a bikini or whatever just to sell more copies. That won’t work in the long run. It’s something that we’ve always tried to do right. We’re trying not to make mistakes. Of course, we did! But I mean, that’s normal. We always think about things and how they are presented to us. We try to see that it always work out so that people understand that we are a band and not just like somebody supporting a lead vocalist.
Were you aware of Jefferson Airplane at all?
Honestly, no. It was something that just came out just like that. We weren’t really trying to copy – I don’t want to say copy – but be inspired by somebody. It was just something that it was in Europe and Gothic metal was really popular. That was when we actually started, the band and stuff. We were listening to bands like Celtic Frost or Type O Negative and so on. Celtic Frost had these couple of songs that they recorded with a female vocalist as well. That was something, when we heard it, it was like, “Oh, wow. That’s actually pretty cool.” So that’s why. We just wanted to try and see how it would work out, and it ended up being really, really good. It gave us a wider range to work with, with the different vocals. You can try one orator in a part and another one in a different part. Maybe switch them around and we’ll see what works better. It’s something that really helps improving our music, I believe.
Can you give me 25 words on the Visual Karma DVD? Was that an accurate depiction of the band? Did those performances represent who you were at that point in time?
Absolutely. People kept asking us to release a DVD. They were like, “Oh, when are you going to do a DVD here?” We’ve been going on for like 10 years without having one. So when we finally had the chance to put together some of the live material that we had shot for the Karmacode touring cycle, we just decided to do it. We had such good material. We actually worked on it ourselves. We remixed all the audio. We got all of the separate tracks, so the levels were completely off or something. We didn’t rerecord anything actually. Everything you hear is actually what we played at those festivals. They had a big console that recorded everything on separate tracks. All we had to do was go into the studio and release it basically. We did it in Milan, our hometown, and I’m pretty happy with how it came out. It sounds great in my opinion. Then we just put together all sorts of personal stuff like short videos and features, like our fans’ videos and so on. It’s on the retrospective DVD anyway, where it’s within the Karmacode touring cycle. But for our first DVD, it’s something we’re totally happy with. It looks good, it sounds good, and there’s a lot of stuff our fans have been really happy with. So it’s a great success.
Interview by Steven Rosen
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