Meat Loaf, nee Marvin Lee Aday, flew in the face of everything that was sacred to rock and roll: where most singers were svelte, Meat was conspicuously overweight; and where most vocalists had a vibrato that was pretty straight, Mr. Loaf’s voice bordered on the trilled vibrato most often associated with opera singers.
But it worked with this Dallas, Texas native and after spending time in various non-descript rock bands, artless duos, and performing on stage with a variety of live shows including The Rocky Horror Picture Show, he laid the framework for his entire career with an album called
Bat Out Of Hell. He made being obese a cool thing and mixed theatrics with an operatic voice on a record that would go onto sell more than 40 million copies.
Bat Out Of Hell would turn into a trilogy including Bat Out Of Hell II: Back Into Hell and Bat Out Of Hell III: The Monster Is Loose, this latter album representing his last release four years ago. In an attempt to try and distance himself from the Bat albums, he has returned with a guitar-centric album of big and modern sounding rock tunes called Hang Cool Teddy Bear. Producer Rob Cavallo has translated the singer’s unique talents into a thoroughly contemporary format that sports such six-string wonders as Brian May, Steve Vai, and Tim Pierce.
In fact, when Meat found out this interview was for a guitar-based site, he was psyched.
"Steven, this is my favorite interview of all time right here, right now. Ultimate-Guitar! Yes, I’m so excited," Meat exclaimed over the trans-Atlantic phone line for the United Kingdom.
I thought he was just needling me and said, "Well, sarcasm aside …"
But he was dead serious and went onto explain, "This is really an important interview – I’m being really honest with you. I’ve been saying for the last week, ‘You’ve got to get me interviews with guitar magazines.’ I’ve been saying that and you should have seen me run across the room when they told me what it was. I’m not being sarcastic. Oh, no, you’ll know if I’m being sarcastic."
Later, his publicist Paul Piggott even sent an email confirming Meat’s exhilaration about being able to talk shop guitar-wise: "He’s been dying to speak to a guitar magazine/website so our timing was awesome."
We’re going to get to Steve Vai and Brian May and Tim Pierce and all those amazing guitar players on the album. It has been about four years since you put out Bat Out of Hell III: The Monster is Loose. Did you want to put out a record that was maybe a bit more modern sounding? Edgier? Do you think some of your earlier records didn’t come across as being new and sort of current sounding?
Absolutely. What I wanted was edgier and whether it’s modern, I don’t know because I couldn’t tell you what modern is. The Kings of Leon are modern but we don’t sound anything like Kings of Leon.
Of course.
I’m trying to think of the rock bands out there that are new and exciting. Kings of Leon and there are a couple more and I can’t think right now. What I wanted was edgy and new and more modern for Meat Loaf as opposed to being categorized ‘cause I never want to be put in a box with anybody else. I always want to stand on my own; I never want to be what is the clichéd sound of the moment or the sound that you need to have. “This is what you’ve got to do to go on the radio.” I never go that way.
You’ve been thinking about a heavier record with big guitars for some time then?
Yeah, I’ve been trying ever since the beginning of 2000 to get somebody to move this way. It just didn’t happen; it just wouldn’t happen. I mean I was going to people like James Michael [producer/songwriter who worked with Meat on the Bat Out of Hell: III album] who’s got a song on this record [“Los Angeloser”]; I was going to people like Nikki Sixx [and] I was going to different people and what they kept doing was trying to write what they considered to be in quotes a “Meat Loaf” song and it became forced. It’s like an actor trying to make something in a scene that isn’t there; it’s forced. And then what would happen was after you reached out to these people and you did things, you wound up having these things on your record. Because, well, partly management who is always managing these guys.
So it’s all about business and nothing to do with music.
It’s like a whore house [laughs.] It’s like the manager’s the pimp and these are all the hookers. And I’m one of ‘em. I got pimped out.
"What I wanted was edgy and new and more modern for Meat Loaf as opposed to being categorized ‘cause I never want to be put in a box with anybody else."
Finally I got to Rob Cavallo: I studied Rob; I did my actor’s homework with him. I knew exactly who he was; who he’d produced; everything he had done. And I went into a meeting and he didn’t even know he was meeting with me to actually make a decision on producing me. But I forced that issue; I hit him guns a-blazing and you can ask him. He wasn’t ready for me. I hit him; I knew everything. I knew how to twist him. I played him this Goo Goo Dolls song that he didn’t produce and I said, “This should have been a hit. I’m thinkin’ I should redo it.” And he said, “Yeah, it should have been a hit but I didn’t produce it.” And I went, “Ohhh, you didn’t? Oh, what do you know?”
Did you play him any of the songs that would be on the Hang Cool Teddy Bear album?
I played him “Los Angeloser” and “Like a Rose” and those were the first two and after “Los Angeloser” he said, “You know what? I’d love to produce this ‘cause you’re saying all the right things and you’re telling me you want to move away from what you had.”
How did you describe to Rob what you wanted musically?
I said, “I don’t want that wall of sound; I don’t want those wall of backgrounds. I want it organic; I want it clean. I want it big, I want the arrangements big; I want the arrangements to be different. I don’t want it piano-based – I want it guitar-based.”
So you had been collecting songs these past several years?
There was some people writing stuff for me. They’d go, “Well, come and sit and write with us.” And I’d go, “No, no, no, no; you don’t want that! Because if I come sit with you and we start a song, we’ll never record it because I’m gonna hate it. If you get 50 or 65 per cent into a song, then I can come in. Then I can shift it and make it and mold it and make it work.”
You got involved in the writing process after the basic ideas for the songs were already conceived?
That’s what happened on all these songs. “Peace on Earth,” the first song was completely written but that’s OK; I changed its entire character. I changed a few lyrics but I changed the character of the piece. I changed it in one way [because] it wasn’t about a character before; it was about a thought of someone. And I made it about the person and his thoughts but I also conflicted him. See, I’m talking to you like an actor now.
Cool. I understand what you’re saying.
In the bridge, I conflicted him because he says, “I don’t want peace on earth” then he says, “I so want peace on earth/I don’t want peace on earth/I so want peace on earth” and that’s confliction and it comes from the actor. ‘Cause the best scenes are always the ones where there’s a conflict involved.
Have you always tried to bring that element of conflict to the characters in your songs?
Every song that I do even Bat Out of Hell, I move Simon into conflict world. Everything there’s a conflict; even internal or if it’s between two people. That’s the best scenes; that’s the best movies; that’s the best songs.
You pointed out that “Peace on Earth” is the opening song on the album. There are big electric guitars and even strings on that one.
Yeah, the strings are fantastic. David Campbell [producer/composer.] And that’s the only song that we put strings on. And I said to David Campbell, [well] I said it to Rob and he goes, “Well, you’ve got to talk to David Campbell.” He said, “Boy, I don’t even know.” I wanted the sounds of a war, of a battle done with strings in the opening. I wanted the machine guns; I wanted this, I wanted that. And then I explained to him about Mahler’s Seventh Symphony and the anvils in the symphony and how I went to Carnegie Hall and saw the blue-haired ladies from Long Island scream like they were at a horror movie when the anvil hit.
You knew exactly what you wanted to hear in the orchestration.
And then I said, the rest of the strings I don’t want ‘em that European opera style strings which are very tormented. I said, “I want them to be the strings that you would hear in Boston and would hear the Boston Pops play on the Fourth of July.
You like building your albums around themes and concepts. That was present on all three Bat Out of Hell albums and there are characters and storylines that run through Hang Cool Teddy Bear as well.
Oh, yeah, this is really more than a theme. This is really a soundtrack to a movie before the movie. I mean I’ve always had the variations of themes in songs and I’ve never tried to stay in one place. This is really varied and because it is a soundtrack really to a movie, it’s about a soldier who is dying and his life flashes forward instead of backwards into different scenarios and I say that’s what’s keeping him alive. It’s the same girl in every scenario except one where he’s actually gotten so upset with himself and with the fact that the girl he’s singing to doesn’t know that he loves her. He’s gotten a little sicker in the hospital and in his mind he’s gone off now to find a hooker who he’s fallen madly in love with but she doesn’t even know who he is. He’s in love with a girl who knows him but she doesn’t know – it’s really complicated – she loves him and so he runs off to a hooker and thinks he’s in love with a hooker but the hooker doesn’t even know he exists. The other girl at least knows he exists. So it’s like a really strange, twisted, demented plot.
"I’ve always had the variations of themes in songs and I’ve never tried to stay in one place."
…Yeah, there’s eight guitar players on that song: Tim Pierce; Paul Crook; Randy Flowers; Steve Vai; Brian May; Justin Hawkins; Rob Cavallo and an intern from UCLA who was 19. We was sittin’ in the studio, we was just watchin’, and he picked up a guitar and just started playing this kind of rhythm R&B part and Rob heard him and said, “What are you doin’?” And I thought Rob was gonna yell at him and Rob said, “Play that. Alright, let’s plug him in; get this amp, get this thing.” And you hear him there just out of nowhere. That’s the kind of record it is. It was like a Judy Garland/Mickey Rooney movie.
Did you specifically want Steve Vai on the record? Brian May?
Yes. Brian May has been a friend of mine for 30 years. Brian just called up one day and goes, “What are you guys doin’?” [And I said] “Brian, come on out; hang out.” And he was hangin’ out and then I said, “Do you think he’ll wanna play?” and Paul [Crook] went, “Yeah; probably.” So he’s out there for an hour and I think we had dinner and then I said, “Do you wanna play on something?” He’d heard some tracks; he thought they were amazing and he goes, “Ah, I don’t have anything to play through or with” and Rob had a Brian May Signature guitar and Brian May’s amp exactly fixed the way Brian May’s amp is because Rob wanted that. To be able to have that sound if he wanted it.
So Brian ended up playing the second solo on “Love is Not Real” after the slow section; he’s the guitar comin’ out of it.
It must have been pretty cool to be in the studio when all these monsters were cutting guitar solos.
Absolutely! I mean Rob Cavallo - and you just have to excuse my French here – when Steve Vai started to play, Rob actually got up from his desk and stands in front of Steve Vai and is watching Steve Vai and his exact quote was: “There has been a lot of motherfuckin’ guitar players come in here but you are the motherfucker of all motherfuckers!” I think that was a compliment. Steve Vai just usually has people send stuff to his house [where he cuts guitar parts at his home studio] but Rob wanted Steve out there because Rob really knows guitars. Think of all the guitar players Rob Cavallo has had out there.
How did you happen to meet up with Justin Hawkins from the Darkness?
The Darkness was my opening act on a tour in Germany and they opened for us for about 16 shows. They were trying to break Germany and they were our opening act. I loved the Darkness and they opened for us at some summer stuff over in the UK. I loved ‘em. Half my band didn’t like ‘em, the other half loved ‘em; I thought they were amazing. I love Justin.
Justin came and was a big part of the record. I mean it just happened. All of a sudden Justin Hawkins is there. Rob didn’t know he was comin’. We said to the Warner Bros. people, “Look, we need some people to come and help us out.” And Justin, James Michael, Rick Brantley [wrote several songs on the album including the opening track, “Peace on Earth”], Eric Nally [co-wrote “California Isn’t Big Enough” with Justin Hawkins], Jake Scherer [wrote “Like a Rose], and some other people showed up. [They were] 21 years old, 24 years old, kids, and it was just amazing.
When you’re singing a ballad like “Did You Ever Love Somebody,” are you looking for a different kind of character voice? Are you searching for a different quality in your voice?
No; you know what? I don’t look for the quality, I look for the character. See, I’m not a singer. Rob Cavallo said, “Meat Loaf is an actor who acts like he can sing.” When my voice changes and the tones and the difference in the voice? It’s how the character’s reacting to the lyrics. I don’t consciously go, “Oh, I’ve got to do this.” Sometimes I do, I’ll go, “Oh, I need to get to a hushed voice here” or something like that. But as far as how they’re coming out? It’s not a conscious thing but they do sound different.
I mean the voice between “Los Angeloser” to “If I Can’t Have You,” they’re all different on down the road. There’s a quality [where] sometimes it doesn’t even sound like the same person. And the fact is they’re all me and it’s really organic; there’s nothing machine-made there.
The album ends with “Elvis in Vegas.”
“Elvis in Vegas” was written by Jon Bon Jovi [with Desmond Child and Billy Falcon] and I had it about five years.
Really?
Yeah. Well, you know you talked about the ballad, let me tell you about “Did You Ever Love Somebody.” I’ve had that song for nine years and Rob Cavallo is the first producer that said, “Oh, I get this” because nobody else in the room liked it. And I said, “Well, you people are all completely crazy.” I said, “I’m gonna sing the hell out of this thing.” And Rob looked at everybody and said, “If he’s that passionate about a song, this song is gonna turn out great.” And Rob said it’s his favorite song on the album now of all the guitar stuff; he loves that. But anyway what did you ask me about?
“Elvis in Vegas.”
“Elvis in Vegas.” Bon Jovi gave me that song five years ago and I said, “Why am I getting this song? Why aren’t you doin’ it?” [He said] “Because nobody but Meat Loaf can do it” and I just giggled and laughed and I went, “Yeah, right. OK. And I’m supposed to believe that the Brooklyn Bridge got moved to Moscow?” And anyway, I changed the lyrics to fit the story. He doesn’t know it yet but he’ll be fine; I’ve known him for 30 years.
The lyric really does wrap the album up when it says: “I was just 15 and the world was mine/And I watched my dreams come to life on that night/I was standing tall, I thought I’d never die/And I watched it all in the white spotlight/I saw Elvis in Vegas.” It’s a sort of self-discovery song where the character in the song feels everything is possible.
That’s the guy in the story [and] his life actually flashes backwards at that point. That’s his true story; that’s exactly what he did. That soldier named Patrick, that’s what he did. That finished our story never knowing that that was gonna finish our story. It just all of a sudden did. At first we were gonna have it as a hidden bonus track and then it was gonna be a bonus track. And then when we mastered the record, we decided, “OK, it’s gonna be one of those tracks that comes on after the album’s over.” And then we played it and I went, No, man, that’s the end of the record. That’s it.” I mean it didn’t happen until we were mastering that that thing went on.
And in fact, I’m the first person to ever record in Sterling Mastering in its 40 years in existence. The last lines on the album? I recorded it at the mastering lab.
"I don’t look for the quality, I look for the character."
Listen, I would record now if I could. Also, I gotta tell you this about the record: this is the first record that I’ve ever done that I wouldn’t change a thing; not a note, a chord, a song, nothing. I’ve heard this record 150 times and there is not a single thing that I would make different.
Here’s a hypothetical for you, Meat: if Bat Out of Hell never happened, would you be the same singer you are today? Would you have made an album like Hang Cool Teddy Bear? Has there been any negative fallout from having such an extraordinarily successful album and having to live up to that?
You know what? Everybody has their earmark: Born to Run; Hotel California; Piano Man; and keep going. And Bruce, is that a weight around his neck? No. He did Born in the USA; he’s done great stuff. Maybe there hasn’t been one complete album that has been ever quite as good as Born to Run; and maybe the Eagles will never quite get that moment, that special moment, of Hotel California. And this may be just my ego blowing apart at the seams here, but I like to think that I’ve captured it again with Hang Cool Teddy Bear. I’ve captured that moment one more time and that’s what I was going for.
When you say you’ve “captured that moment one more time,” you’re referring back to Bat Out of Hell and your work with Jim Steinman. You haven’t worked with Jim in a while and there were none of his songs on this album.
No, but I talk to him. No, I wouldn’t have put a Jim Steinman [song] on this record. We discussed it and that was a discussion that actually took place. Because what happened was I needed to escape Bat:III; I needed to totally escape that. If Jim Steinman and myself are ever gonna do anything in the future – that possibility is always there – I needed to step as far away from Jim Steinman as I could step to be able to come back.
Back in the day, you were actually fronting your own bands like Meat Loaf Soul, Popcorn Blizzard, and Floating Circus. Did you want to be the frontman in a group? The lead singer of a rock and roll band?
I fronted Ted Nugent on Free For All and just never went out live with him.
Exactly. Was your dream to be the rock singer in a rock group?
Yes, all the time! Did I have a desire to be in a band? Absolutely. I’m tired of being the guy that takes all the hits. But you know what? I think if I had fronted a band, I’d still be the guy that took the hits.
And you’re healthy and everything is good with you?
Yeah. I’m as healthy as you can get for a guy who’s 94 [laughs.]
Interview by Steven Rosen
Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2010
