The New York Dolls swaggered onto the New York music scene in the early '70s, influencing a generation with its subversive mix of high-decibel rock and high-heeled androgyny. The original band recorded a pair of milestone records - New York Dolls (1973) and Too Much Too Soon (1974) - before breaking up in 1977.
The surviving members reformed the group in 2004 to much acclaim, but soon lost bassist
Arthur Kane to leukemia. Two years later,
Johansen and
Sylvain reunited again to record the
New York Dolls' third studio album,
One Day It Will Please Us To Remember Even This.
After working together on the New York Dolls' influential debut in 1973, the group reunited with producer Todd Rundgren this past winter to record their fourth studio album, 'Cause I Sez So, which was released in early May.
Recorded at Utopia Sound Studio in Kauai, Hawaii, the album features 11 original compositions and a new version of "Trash" that originally featured on their milestone 1973 debut album. The current New York Dolls lineup boasts: David Johansen on vocals; Sylvain Sylvain on guitar; Steve Conte on guitar; Brian Delaney on drums and Sami Yaffa on bass. Joe Matera caught up with Doll guitarist Steve Conte to discuss the new album and band's enduring legacy.
UG: One thing that is noticeable on the new album is that while the Stones-y vibe still exists and has been a trademark of the band, its also forward looking and fresh sounding, with the band branching out musically and stylistically. Was this a conscious effort in order to stay relevant and not be tied down to being just a nostalgic act?
Steve Conte: No, it's just us doing what we do. The cool thing about this version of the band is that in addition to rock & roll, all of us are into different types of music - dub reggae, soul, flamenco, blues, Latin, jazz, opera, gypsy, African - so we have those sounds in our heads and the grooves in our bodies. We knew we'd be making an eclectic record and we have faith that the Dolls audience will make the leap with us. If not, at least we're pleasing ourselves. It would be pointless to just repeat what was done 35 years ago. David and Syl have grown musically and they chose a bunch of cats who can bring their own thing to the band. Like David said in an interview - “You can only be an amateur once…”
"At some points when I listen to the record I feel like we just make it by the skin of our teeth."
I'd say in general, one of the “players” presents an idea in rehearsal - a chord progression/melody/riff/groove - and if the band likes it, we present it to David. It's usually pretty instant whether he feels he can get into it for lyrics. Then he'll go away with it for a few weeks and it'll come back with a theme and lyrics that are pure genius Johansen. We've also done it by sending David our individual demos on CD to see if anything sparks him that way.
This album was different from "One Day It Will Please Us..." in that we spent a very short amount of time writing & recording it...about 6 weeks in total. Syl, Sami and I had germs of a few of the tunes kicking around since the summer tour in 2008. After we got off the road the 3 of us got together once to work out more ideas. Then we put it together with Delaney on drums and David and worked for a week or so before we went to Hawaii to record with Todd. We were still honing the songs when we got to Todd's house on Kauai, which kept things on the edge - we certainly weren't over rehearsed. I think that's what makes the record sound fresh, we didn't get into a comfort zone. At some points when I listen to the record I feel like we just make it by the skin of our teeth. But that's what makes it The Dolls!
What did producer Todd Rundgren bring to the recording process?
Todd had a few nice musical ideas for us but mostly I think he just let the band be the band and play the way we wanted to play. Having been a fan Todd's producing for years - especially XTC's "Skylarking" - I was thinking we’d get a bit more of hands-on approach but as you can hear, there is none of that kind of lush production on this record. Todd's main concerns were overall style of the song and lyrics. Of course, he and David are very different in their approach to writing so some comments were taken to heart, others weren’t. He didn't have much to say about the chords/melodies/grooves so I figured the music all hit him as being pretty solid.
I remember at the start of the record Todd saying, "You don't need to prove anything with this record because the pressure of your "comeback" album is over... now you can do whatever you want"... which was exactly what we intended to do.
Todd produced the band's debut album and over the years its' been stated in various articles that the band were never happy with his production. What made the band decide to return working with Todd?
Honestly, I don't know how or why - but I was happy to hear we'd be working with Todd because I always dug him. Plus he’s a person whose opinion David will listen to and respect. I don’t how well we’d work with some hot young producer who hasn’t been around the block - musically or in life.
How do you and Sylvain go about approaching your guitar parts?
There's almost no thought that goes into it...it is instinct really. We never talk about it, we just do it. I try to feel out what Syl is going play and play around it. Syl's part might change from one performance to the next - unless it's one of his songs with a definite guitar riff - so I am always ready to change on a dime. I've played in bands where if there are two guitarists there's conscious thought about parts - if one guy is playing high, the other plays low, if one guy is playing rhythmic figures, the other holds long chords. The way Syl and I work together is nothing like that. And I think the chaos is what makes it beautiful and distinctive.
Really, whoever writes the main riff of a song plays it on whatever guitar they wrote it on. For example, Syl wrote ‘Making Rain’, ‘Lonely So Long’, ‘Drowning’ and ‘My World’ on acoustic guitar so he played acoustic and I played electric. He got into such a good groove on acoustic he stayed with it on a few other songs like ‘Better Than You’ and ‘Temptation To Exist’. The songs with acoustic are nice because they leave a lot of space so the electric parts can be more than just the big overdriven wall of sound. In contrast to his acoustic rhythm I would add a tremolo, echo, or stabby electric parts that give the record some extra voodoo.
"I recorded like I was playing on stage."
The band was recorded almost entirely live, at least drums, bass and my guitars - even the solos. I recorded like I was playing on stage. I would stop playing rhythm, step on an overdrive pedal for the solo, then click it off and go back to rhythm. It takes balls to do that these days when most bands are comping their best performances together. To me that shit sounds soul-less, perfected and homogenized. Syl played a lot of acoustic on the record so I think a few of his electrics and solos were overdubbed but still sound fresh and raw.
We'd just record a number of "takes" with the band playing live and David's guide vocal and choose the best one based on feel. If it had a bad chord or note that somebody couldn't live with, we’d fixed it right then. I overdubbed two solos - an E-Bow and a slide - because I couldn't pick up those tools and put them down gracefully to get back into my rhythm part. I had one day for overdubs, which lasted about two hours and then Todd said, "You really don't want this record to end, do you?" So the vibe was to not work so long on anything that it felt labored over. That was Todd's genius on this record, not overproducing.
So did the recording sessions utilize a digital approach more so than analog?
Yes digital, but we used it like a tape machine. It was the chosen method of capturing the band’s live performances. There was not much comping going on. That is also how I recorded my new album, Steve Conte & The Crazy Truth with all the tracks and solos played live on the fly. There was no trying to "perfect" anything.
Let’s discuss the gear you used for this album…
I brought three guitars with me from New York, my 1959 cherry Les Paul Jr, 1969 black Les Paul Fretless Wonder and 1959 Danelectro DC-2. I stepped on an HBE Power Screamer for overdrive & an old pink Ibanez analog delay for spacey echo.
Was there any particular method you adhered to in order to capture your guitar tones in the studio?
Over the years I've learned that I can get a decent tone out of whatever I use. It sounds like a cliché but it’s in the players head and hands. But the island of Kauai is one of the most remote places on earth and we were very limited to what gear they could rent for us. They couldn’t find the Marshall or Vox amps I wanted so I ended up using an old brown face Fender combo amp with tremolo and a stand alone Vox Reverb unit. The rig was right out of 1966. It sounded killer - fat, warm & round. It would sound clean if I played light but if I played something hard it got nasty. Todd just mic'd it up with a 57 on the cone and a room mike back a bit, maybe it was a Neumann, I didn't pay a lot of attention.
For a couple of the overdubs I played through my 30 watt Orange head with a Marshall 4x12 cabinet. The cabinet was placed in a three foot deep hole in the bedroom I stayed in at Todd's house. It was all wood Japanese-style room and the hole was meant for your feet to dangle in while sitting at a table low to the floor, eating a meal. The crazy thing was the hole was right in front of my bed so I didn't want to be doing any sleepwalking or coming home too wobbly at night. I put pillows in the hole to cushion a potential fall and placed things around it like guitar cases and shoes to warn me in case I got too close.
Why did the band decide to record a new version of “Trash”?
We had started doing a reggae breakdown in the middle of “Trash” on the last tour and it was really fun so we went with it.
"I feel blessed. There are very few legendary rock & roll bands that a person can just step into and become a real part of."
Not to me personally because I didn't grow up a Thunders fanatic. The thing is, I was into a lot of the same stuff he was such as Keith Richards, Chuck Berry and the blues so it was an easy fit. The difference between us is that he was more a product of the Stooges/MC5 school so he had that rough garage band thing about him. I was weaned on The Stones/Hendrix/The Who/Jeff Beck - stuff that was a bit more varied and complex.
When learning the material for the first bunch of shows I copped the lines or solos that I felt were a signature of the song and played them as close as I could to Johnny Thunder's style. The rest of the stuff I just played what I would play. The head that I got into was to just play with maximum balls!
I think old school fans had more of the expectation for me to be like Thunders - but you can't separate the player from the man. Johnny had a knack for style and choice, whether it was his clothes, what songs he covered, what he wrote about or how he lived - it was purely him. I could never be that, I grew up in a different era with a whole other set of circumstances, most notably that I ended my romance with chemical drugs before I was 20, finding my savior in seriously studying music at school. But I grew up playing rock & roll, learning it by ear and by feel so playing the way I do way is a natural thing that not all "schooled" musicians can do.
How does it feel to be part of New York Dolls and to now be part of their legacy?
I feel blessed. There are very few legendary rock & roll bands that a person can just step into and become a real part of. I've played with other established artists where it's clear that it's "just a gig" but I was always longing to be in a band like this. Ever since the first Dolls show with Arthur Kane at the Royal Festival Hall when David said to me - "Stevie, just wear what you want to wear and play what you want to play" - I felt like I was home. And now five years later after touring the world, making two live albums, two studio albums and co-writing songs with the band there's a real sense of belonging to something. I believe this version of the band has now been together longer than the original version.
Is the lifestyle that the Dolls were notoriously known for now a thing of the past?
You mean the drag and drugs?
Yes.
Well, you can see that the pumps and spandex are gone but the sense of style and passion for music are still there. That lifestyle you speak of was part of the '70s consciousness and they were 20 years old. Yet I doubt many 20 year olds in bands of today can party as hard as the Dolls did. Everyone is older & wiser...the whole society is. Sure, we still party but at a different level.
Countless of bands such as Kiss and Motley Crue took a lot of their look and inspiration from the New York Dolls. Why do you think the New York Dolls have had so much influence?
It's real music, played by human beings with heart and soul. It's smart and it's nasty. It's what the punk rockers were trying to emulate but they could only scratch the surface…as cool as some of them were they just didn't have the roots. It took balls to do what the Dolls did back in the early '70s...combining blues, garage rock and girl group sounds with an androgynous image. It certainly wasn't a formula for any kind of success; they were in their own world doing what they wanted. I think some of those image-based bands, while they have songs that their fans will love forever, picked up on the visual thing as part of their "Bizness"...but the Dolls lived it. They dressed that way in high school in the late 60’s.
Finally what has the rest of the year got in store for the band?
Tour, eat, drink and to be fruitful and multiply!
Interview by Joe Matera
Photo Credit: Debra Olin
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