Legendary record producer and engineer Phill Brown has worked with some of the biggest and influential names in rock music; Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd and countless others. His insights into the world of studio recording, provides a fascinating look behind the scenes of the world of a recording engineer. In Ultimate Guitar’s continuing series, "The Producers and Engineers" Phill Brown speaks to Joe Matera about his illustrious career, recording Led Zeppelin, how he captured some of those classic guitar tones on many classic albums and working with analog tape.
UG: You began your career in 1967, working at Olympic Studios, [London], what was it like working there at such a point in music history, and what were some of the main things you learned from those early years which held you in good stead for your career?
Phill Brown: It was truly a fantastic time – such a vast array of artists. And as an assistant, I worked with; Arthur Brown, Traffic, Small Faces, Steve Miller Band, the Rolling Stones, Dusty Springfield, Leonard Cohen, The Move, The Nice, Jimi Hendix, Joe Cocker – and being taught by Keith Grant and Glyn Johns was, an honor. When I started at 16 years old in November 1967, it was 4 track – so most records had to be recorded live with few overdubs. Watching Keith record a 40 - 60 piece orchestra to 2 tracks of a 4 track machine was inspirational. I think learning ‘classic’ microphone positioning and techniques, and recording ‘live’ was the most important part of my year at Olympic - and this approach has stayed with me over the years. Also how to run a session and deal with artists was another.
You moved to a number of different studios over the ensuing years. With each studio, did you use a different approach to fit in with that studio’s workings?
Not really. I trained at Olympic and then helped my brother Terry Brown to build the first 16 track studio in Canada. Different mics and room-sound but I worked a similar way to the training at Olympic. At Island studios I had a more ‘rock ‘n roll approach – and we experimented more -especially when the 24 track machines arrived. Once I had become a freelance engineer and started to work in different rooms, i would work my way where possible and get the assistants to adjust to my way of working.
What were some of your favorite in-studio moments working with some of the great artists of the day?
Working with Robert Palmer was always excellent especially when we teamed up in America with Little Feat, James Jameson, and the Meters, and mixing Bob Marley and the wailers ‘Live at the Lyceum’ album in six hours. Another was Talk Talk’s ‘Spirit of Eden’, although difficult to make, it was a high point in recording for me and has brought me a great deal of work over the past 25 years. Working with Rollo at Swanyard studios in the 1990’s with Faithless and Dido was inventive and great fun. Other favorites - John Martyn’s ‘One World’ (recorded across a disused gravel pit in Theale) recording vocals with Paal from Norweigian band Midnight Choir, and more recently Jake Morley.
"I found Page particularly hard to communicate with. He was self-centered and into some form of weird spiritual crap."
The full band were there - John Bonham, Robert Plant, John Paul Jones, Jimmy Page and east end heavy, Peter Grant, with a couple of minders. Peter was vast, probably 20 stone, and had difficulty squeezing into the luxurious, high-backed leather chairs that were positioned on the riser behind the Helios desk. To me he appeared very seedy, with thinning long hair, sweaty skin and ill-fitting clothes. He dealt with me and the other minions around him in an off-hand manner and gave off a somewhat threatening vibe. Control room 2 was not a large room, measuring only 15 by 20 feet. With the brown-carpeted walls on the floor and ceiling, dull lighting, desk and machines, nine people (band, manager, minders, myself and an assistant) and this strange aggressive attitude, the sessions were immediately claustrophobic and scary.
The members of the band, apart from Bonham, had long flowing curly hair - looking like Jesus or some Greek gods. Jones was friendly and polite and on another planet altogether. Bonham and Plant were relaxed and relatively easy to deal with, but Page was dark, moody and difficult. I found him particularly hard to communicate with. He was self-centered and into some form of weird spiritual crap. A great fan of the writings of Aleister Crowley, he owned Crowley’s old residence, Boleskine house.
We worked mainly on two songs; “Four Sticks” and “Stairway to Heaven.” The backing tracks had drums, bass and some electric guitars already recorded and there were good vocals on both tracks. We spent most of our time working on “Stairway to Heaven” - trying out flute parts on the introduction with John Paul Jones and overdubbing guitar ideas and solos with Jimmy Page. We worked on lead guitar parts to “Stairway to Heaven” endlessly, trying out different styles, sounds and effects. We tried the guitar through Leslie, desk distortion and various pedals and recorded takes continuously. The guitar overdubs took days to perform and get right. Listening to the final version of “Stairway to Heaven,” it’s hard to imagine how bad some of the playing and tuning was. There were many loose timing mistakes and wrong notes from Page, and the control room atmosphere remained intense.
There was very little direct communication from any of the band, and having Peter Grant sitting beside me did not help. I found him belligerent and rude, and aware of the many stories about Grant’s well-known bullyboy techniques, I was disturbed by his presence. On his death in 1996 there were glowing obituaries in newspapers and music magazines, describing him as “always being on the side of the artist” and “fair.” I would have first hand knowledge of this so-called “fair” attitude to artists later, while working with Jeff Beck.
The sessions with Zeppelin were long, with no convenient breaks and I would be at the desk for some 15 to 18 hours a day. I had to maintain a constant high level of concentration and vigilance during this time - it was not easy. You couldn’t fuck up on projects like these. It was very tiring and the severe atmosphere generated by Peter, his minders and the band, did not leave me with warm memories. I thought Page was a good guitarist but not on a par with Jeff Beck, Jimi Hendrix or Eric Clapton. I was relieved when the Zeppelin sessions were over and I could return to projects that were more laidback and easygoing.
Was it hard capturing Jimmy Page’s guitar tones?
I set up an AKG D20 and a Neumann u87 on the guitar amps. The Helios desk had limited EQ so we relied on a good sound in the room from Jimmy. Also we did what the band or Peter asked. I was still young and learning.
When it came to drums, how important were they to how a band and the guitar sounded on record, for example Led Zep’s sound was totally built from John Bonham’s drum sound.
You always need a good drum sound – this is often the bedrock of any recording. My set-up in the ‘70’s was AKG D12 on bass drum, Shure 57 on the snare, and Neumann u87’s on toms and overheads. I now use Coles on overheads, and Seinnheiser 421 mic’s on the toms – a good sounding room with a high ceiling is very important. Since Talk Talk I have used more room mics to create ‘air’ and ‘space’ – usually a Sony c48.
And you also worked with Pink Floyd?
Yeah, Pink Floyd was a live recording of ‘Dark Side of the Moon’ in November 1974 – just released in 2011. Being live there’s little one can do once the concert starts. We worked with the Island mobile, which had a Helios 32 in - 24 out. I remember we used all the channels on the desk, and as usual with Floyd it was very involved set-up.
With Jeff Beck and the type of playing approach he uses, was it hard capturing him on tape?
We worked very fast, same microphone techniques as above. He is such a great player – he delivers amazing sounds – my job was not to fuck it up.
What was your usual method in capturing the guitar tones of some of these bands in the studio?
I have always loved AKG D12 or D20 on guitar amps – still use them. The secret has always been to get a great sound in the room and then try not to mess it up – a little Urei 1176 compression. I nearly always used the D12 close to the amp and the Neumann U87 about 8 feet away. Due to limited outboard gear we would often try desk distortion and Leslie speakers. My favorite amp in the studio was a Vox AC-30.
"60s was truly a fantastic time – such a vast array of artists."
I still think tape is the best for drum and bass sounds. Up until a year ago I was still recording to tape and then transferring to Pro-Tools. I have just spent my first year without tape – because tape quality is not very good and tape machines poorly maintained. I miss it though. It also produces a good discipline – not endless tracks – have to plan ahead.
In what ways do you think you have evolved as an engineer over the years?
I use less EQ and effects than when I first started. I set up microphones further away from instruments and have finally mastered the art of mixing. We are always adjusting to the new technology – 24 track and in-line desks of the ‘70’s. The poor sounding early digital of the ‘80’s, samplers in the ‘90’s, and the modern Pro-Tools, Logic software of the 2000’s. The technology today is stunning – but I still feel the priority is to capture a performance and try to make the artists and musicians as relaxed as possible.
What do you think of today’s recording climate, where every man and his dog have their own home studio set-up?
I have always been a fan of ‘teams’ and musicians playing live. I think we have made music too ‘perfect’ – tuning singers and putting musicians in time – not what a great record is all about. I have no interest in working in a 10 x 8 programming suite on my own. The biggest problem today is we only one main record company – Universal – who own about 90% of all record companies. This is not healthy - Island, Virgin and Polydor are faint shadows of their former selves.
Do you think the technological changes have really made recordings better than when they were made on tape?
Depends what you mean by ‘better’. Everything is cleaner, brighter, and we have greater control on the sounds and mix balance… but overall no – it all sounds too good and lacks energy and vibe – although I often wonder how we made those records on a 16 track with no ‘undo’ button.
You have recently released a book are ‘We Still Rollin’?’ What made you decide to write the book?
I had been thinking about it for a while – I wanted to get down the excitement of those ‘60’s and ‘70’s sessions. Plus mentioning the genius of Keith Grant, Glyn Johns, Frank Owen - making classic albums on 4 and 8 track machines, the ‘party’ atmosphere of Island studios, and the interference of A&R departments starting in the 1980’s.
Rather than just being a technical manual, I wanted to describe the ‘reality’ of those ‘big name’ sessions.
The book is different in a sense that it is not your usual biography type book, why did you go for a different approach?
I had no real angle when I started writing – I was sitting around after an operation and could not work for 6 months. I wrote the Bob Marley story first. I was just trying to remember the characters, technology, and the approach to sessions – it took its own path and became more political as we moved into the 1980’s.
Looking back, have any sessions done sessions where you wished you weren’t there?
Oh yeah, Malian singer Rokia Traore (French Grammy) was a real diva, while Scottish singer James Yorkston did not want a producer. And Ray Davis… but where do you start?
What next for Phill Brown?
I am currently working on an album with David Gray. I no longer have a manager and rely on people to track me down – PhillBrown.net - Tape.Demon.co.uk.
Interview by Joe Matera
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