Back in the 1970s and 1980s, the producer many metal and hard rock bands of the day lined up to work with, was Tom Werman. Werman’s style of production proved to be a winning formula for many of the bands he produced and recorded, with many achieving their greatest commercial successes with their Werman produced albums; Groups such as Motley Crue, Twisted Sister, Poison, Cheap Trick and countless of others, all achieved multi-platinum success with their Werman produced albums. In Ultimate Guitar’s continuing series, "The Producers And Engineers", Joe Matera spoke to Tom Werman about his illustrious production career, his approach to guitar tones and working in a pre-digital recording world.
UG: You first started out at Epic in the early '70s, before holding down executive positions at Elektra and EMI/Capitol, which saw you sign a number of hugely successful bands such as Cheap Trick. What did you used to look for in an artist you were considering signing?
Tom Werman: I only had to enjoy what I heard. There was no A&R checklist. If the music moved me, I’d want to sign the act. In the beginning it was scary, because I was staking my professional reputation on my decision. In A&R, as in academia, the rule is publish or perish – or in this case, sign hit acts or lose your job. You have to be confident about your response – especially when there’s no interest in the act from other labels. Eventually I realized that if I liked a band, it was very likely to be a commercial success.
How – and why - did you make the transition into production?
At Epic, I was responsible for editing all the album cuts for our single releases. Some were as long as 7 minutes, and for play on AM radio they needed to be around 3 minutes, so I used a splicing block and cut the tape with a razor blade (yes, we did actually cut the tape and put it back together with splicing tape). In doing so, I learned a lot about how to match the instrumental parts on both sides of the splice – for example, to make sure there wasn’t a ride cymbal on the left side of the splice and a hi-hat on the right. I learned to see through the track and separate each instrument’s part individually. I also heard songs that I felt could be better, and I had specific ideas for them – this made me want to be a decision maker during the recording process. The idea of being able to shape and craft a song which would be played in millions of homes was very appealing. Watching other producers work in the studio led me to believe that this was something I would enjoy doing and could do well.
How did you approach your recording sessions from a production angle when it came to making an album?
I began by studying the song demos; I’d suggest changes and we’d try them out in rehearsal. Some worked, some didn't. I'd rehearse basic tracks only -- no lead work, no vocals -- just drums, bass, rhythm guitar --the basic structure of the song. The band would play live in the studio, but with isolation. I'd go for a keeper drum track first, then repair the bass guitar track. Doubled rhythm guitars would follow, and a dummy vocal after that. Then we'd add keys, backing vocals, etc. Lastly, I’d do the percussion myself. I let my engineer get the mix close, and then I’d go in and tweak it with him for an hour two. This helped to assure that my ears were comparatively fresh, and that we didn’t overmix the song.
"The idea of being able to shape and craft a song which would be played in millions of homes was very appealing."
Basically I tried to identify and feature the pop elements in their music, so I could get them AM radio play. In the 70’s and 80’s, if you had a hit single you could sell millions of albums. Without a hit single, you could be successful, but not really big – when FM stereo radio came in, then bands could be very successful through album play alone, but having a hit was an effective shortcut to the big time. I tried to do this without compromising the band’s metal street credibility. Fact is, I was never a heavy metal guy – I was a pop guy.
How important was the relationship between a producer and the record company back then?
The producer’s contact was solely with the A&R man in charge of the act you were doing. There was very little label contact beside that. When I was a staff producer at Epic, though, I had ongoing contact with marketing, promotion, etc. – it was a good thing for the band, because the label tended to focus on my productions more than on an independent producer’s work, and I could personally promote my records to the label.
Typically, the producer would put on a “dog and pony show” when the strongest 2 or 3 songs were completed and in rough-mix form. The label head and department heads would come down for a listen, so they’d have an idea about what they were getting and how to market and promote it.
What was it like working with Cheap Trick in the studio on the trilogy of albums you made together (In Color, Heaven Tonight, Dream Police)?
Cheap Trick was one of my very favorite bands - smart, funny and talented. Each one was better than the other in the studio. We’d do basic tracks in several days, finish all overdubs in a couple of weeks, and Robin could put away two songs in one day, with doubling and harmonies. Sometimes Rick would bring in several song ideas, and we’d work together to combine a chorus from one song with a verse from another. They were quite agreeable to my contributions, and I’d always send them a final mix for their approval. It was a great pleasure to work with them.
You were largely responsible for the success of Motley Crue in the 1980s, what was it like working with the band in the studio on the albums you produced?
This was a different kettle of fish – Tommy and Mick were very quick in the studio, and very accomplished on their instruments. Nikki was not a particularly good bass player when I started with the band, but he did improve considerably by the time we got to Girls Girls Girls. Tommy was a fine drummer with a great hard rock style, and a curiosity about technical sound innovations, like samples and triggers. Vince was very good natured, but also a veteran partier, and this would sometimes render him less than productive when he came in the following day to do his vocals. Still, he worked hard behind the mike. We finally achieved a satisfactory guitar sound when we got to ‘Girls Girls Girls’, and this song and ‘Wild Side’ were my two favorite tracks in terms of production ideas and execution.
Who were some of the best rock and metal acts you worked with in your time as producer?
As far as musicianship goes, Cheap Trick was right up there. I made two albums with both Mother’s Finest and The Producers – Atlanta bands who were not that commercially successful – both of whom I feel were among the strongest bands I ever worked with. Their songs, their live presentation, their musicianship and their originality were so impressive. The albums Another Mother Further by Mother’s Finest and The Producers, the second band’s debut, were in the personal top five of my career. I was very disappointed that they weren’t both very big bands.
Did you have any sessions where you wished you weren’t there?
We were starting basic tracks for Twisted Sister’s Stay Hungry LP at the Record Plant in New York. We set up in the studio, and that afternoon we started working on JJ’s sound for the rhythm guitar tracks. We started going through amps – his amps, the a succession of rented amps --- then a succession of rented guitars – we spent the entire second day late into the night doing the very same thing, and on the third day when I woke up in my hotel I was depressed and discouraged, and wished I hadn’t accepted the project. Things eventually came together and we had smooth sailing after that. I also accepted an offer to produce Krokus. I liked their music, but I wasn’t really a fan like I was with almost all of the other bands I’d worked with. I took the project because I knew Krokus already had a built-in audience and an established international sales base. The sessions were productive, but I went to the studio every day as if I were working at a bank – little enthusiasm, little excitement. This convinced me that I had to be passionate about the music in order to produce a band.
"Cheap Trick was one of my very favorite bands - smart, funny and talented. Each one was better than the other in the studio."
I find this very curious. It’s the principal guy in each band that has come up with an incredibly inaccurate version of history. First, each of these three individuals absolutely approved every album in question. Second, each one of the seven LP’s involved was either platinum or multi-platinum. Third, with Motley and Cheap Trick, isn’t it odd that both bands used me 3 times in a row as a producer? Why didn’t they change producers after the first album if they were so unhappy with the outcome? Fourth, these albums were recorded with technology that’s now 30 years old. Consider the stunning progress that’s transpired in the audio-visual world since 1975…naturally the music is going to sound considerably better now.
Frankly, I feel that Dee Snyder was simply unable to share credit for a hugely successful LP after being only marginally successful for the first seven years. Cheap Trick has made lots of bad decisions, and has managed to blame the record label, their manager and their producer for all of them. Nikki Sixx created a work of total fiction in his “Heroin Diaries” and accused everyone involved with the band of taking advantage of him. He actually alleged that I spent much of my studio time on the phone and that he did most of the work with Vince’s vocals. This could not possibly be less truthful. Isn’t it strange that I was able to produce 20 other gold and platinum records without his valuable assistance?
Finally, each of these individuals was friendly and totally cooperative with me during the making of all seven of these records. Not one expressed any dissatisfaction in the studio. If they didn’t like something, we discussed it and fixed it. With some (not all) rock stars, they seem to love you when you’re doing something for them, but when you’re not helping them to achieve even more success, then you either weren’t very good on the job, or you’re simply dead to them. It’s always all about them. All three of these bands enjoyed their biggest successes with me. When they stopped working with me, they began to disappear from the charts (with the exception of Dr. Feelgood). So how do you minimize the relative importance of the producer to your success as a band? It’s simple - you tell everyone that your big hit records would have been even bigger without him.
How did you about capturing the guitar tones back then in the studio?
We’d try assorted amps through assorted speaker cabinets with assorted microphones that were placed in several spots until we came close to the right sound. The rhythm guitar sounds were always harder to get, and I would double almost all rhythm guitars and pan them hard left and right. Lead sounds were far easier to dial in. I had an obsession with the Roland amp on the Chorus setting – it produced a wonderful, liquid sound – but I had to control the urge to use it all the time, as it sounded appropriate on ballads, mostly.
Though many of your albums were primarily guitar driven, the drums were a crucial element to the overall sound too…
I left the initial drum setup to my engineer. If the drum kit didn’t sound good in the room, we’d experiment with things, like removing the kick drum head or muting the kick drum with a packing blanket inside. Sometimes we’d change the snare drum head, or go through a series of different sized rented snare drums. After we got what we thought was right in the room, we’d go into the control room and go through drums and cymbals individually – then listen to the whole kit, since everything bled into everything else’s mics. I preferred a thuddy, dry kick drum sound and a tight, lower-pitched snare with a little crunch on top. I’d always have a couple of tracks for distant room mics, which we’d use in the mix a lot or a little or not at all, depending on what the song needed. Noise gates were a big help, too.
Your production style was sometimes described by critics as being too clean and controlled for the hard rock and heavy metal albums…
I never considered Ted Nugent, Cheap Trick or Molly Hatchet to be “metal” bands. Hard rock or power pop is more like it. I’m a pop guy – I wasn’t a fan of Sabbath or Iron Maiden. When I approached a song, I’d try to get rid of the weaknesses and feature the strengths – plenty of hooks and a tight structure. Once you’ve said what you want to say, then finish and leave the listener wanting more. I also felt that without excellent timing and pitch, you couldn’t achieve power within the music.
So I’d strive for perfection without wearing the band out or having them literally play the song to death. I was also a sucker for synth pads – pedal tones in the background, and nice harmonic backing vocals. It was hard – driving pop music. In the 70’s, if you wanted to sell a lot of records then you had to have a hit single. In order to have a hit single, you couldn’t be too heavy. So I got my bands on the radio, and because of that they sold millions of albums. The fans of these bands didn’t seem to agree with the critics – and Dave Marsh, music editor for Rolling Stone, named “In Color” as the album of the year.
You worked with analog primarily, did you eventually move to the digital realm and if so, how did you embrace the changes?
I used digital recording only once, and that was with Poison. After rehearsing the band for a few days, I knew there would be a lot of punching in and out – correcting everyone’s performances bit by bit. Digital was more precise with punching into record on the fly and then getting out of record at the right spot. I was good at doing this, and good at helping my guitarists and vocalists sound really accomplished, no matter how long it took to get the performance sounding confident and smooth. The lead guitar break in Poison’s “Nothin’ But a Good Time” took the better part of a day, but it’s a great solo. I did think that analog was sonically better than digital – especially in the beginning, and especially for rock music.
"Fact is, I was never a heavy metal guy – I was a pop guy."
As far as I’m concerned there was little or no competition. However, most of these other producers (Keith, Jack Douglas, Jimmy Iovine, Ron Nevison, etc.) had an engineering background, and I was a complete technoramus. I relied heavily on my engineer to translate my words into sound. I’d tell him what I wanted, and he’d try to make it happen. This also freed me up to concentrate totally on the music, the arrangement and the performance. I always was impressed that these guys could make records with good musical content and good sound, when they were doing both the engineering and producing themselves. So if anything, I had a complex about not being technically savvy – but in the period you mention, I had so many successive hits that I wasn’t really threatened by any other producers.
What do you consider your favorite production session?
Either the In Color session, or the first Producers’ session, both were excellent bands with great musicianship – both with four different, colorful and entertaining individuals, and both with wonderful senses of humor. It was a great pleasure to go to the studio every day. I never considered it to be work – it was a privilege.
What elements make for a good produced album?
You’re halfway home if the song is great. After that, interesting arrangements, good performances and engaging sounds (“ear candy”), combined in a strong mix, and sequenced effectively.
You no longer work in the industry so what was the impetus to you having a sea change?
The music changed in the early 90’s, and regardless of how I felt about it, the industry had pigeon-holed me for so long that I couldn’t convince any of them that I was able to produce pop albums. I would love to have worked with many pop bands, but couldn’t convince people. I had also produced records for about 20 years, and if I wasn’t getting burned out, I was certainly getting crispy around the edges. In my prime, I’d make three records a year in the studio of my choice and on my own timetable. I took my family to our summer home in Nantucket for 6 weeks every summer – bands would adapt their schedules so they could work with me. Once the work slowed down and I was no longer able to make my own schedule, I realized that this wouldn’t go on forever. I completely changed my life and went 180 degrees in the other direction. I felt fine about doing this. It was a great decision for someone my age. I’m very, very happy here in this wonderful community in this beautiful part of the country, surrounded by art, music, theater and outdoor activity all year ‘round – I’d had enough of LA in 23 years there, and I made the great escape.
Interview by Joe Matera
Ultimate-Guitar.Com © 2012
