Adam "Nergal" Darski, the frontman of Polish extreme metal band Behemoth, has found himself in court over an incident involving the tearing up of a bible onstage.
According to Blabbermouth.com, the singer attended a hearing at the District Court in Gdynia, Poland after tearing up a bible, calling it "a book of lies" and labelling the Catholic Church as "the most murderous cult on the planet." The incident took place at a Behemoth show in Gdynia back in 2007.
Darski, while giving evidence as a witness, claimed that his actions were not intended to hurt anyone and that he considered the act of ripping up the bible "an artistic metaphor":
"I am a free man, living — I hope — in a free country. Although I do not publicly recognize the principles outlined in the Bible or the Ten Commandments, that does not mean that I am not a decent and useful human being."
This is the second time that the band has come to court over this issue. While the case was originally dismissed in July of last year, the prosecution was granted an appeal which has seen the band return to court. The All-Polish Committee for Defense Against Sects is the body that has filed a suit against the group, accusing them of promoting Satanism.
After his court appearance, the frontman issued the following statement via Metal Blade Records: "I spent five hours in the court in Gdynia today. The case is back on track and there's still a few witnesses to be interviewed. It's way too early to give any further comment. I just hope the final verdict is gonna be positive for me. I have a feeling that I'm in this situation for right reasons and I'm not giving up. Cross fingers! The battle ain't over yet…"
A video of the incident can be found at the following location:
"Place your right hand on the bible. Do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?"
"Well this is kind of ironic"
Well, he's right; the Catholic Church is the most murderous cult to ever have existed on the planet. I wouldn't call the bible a book of lies though. It's a story book and some people can take something positive from those stories.
Regardless of weather he's right or not there's a basic human right called freedom of speech and it should definately cover this. This case is a joke and it's insulting to the tax payers of Poland to be paying to protect a religion that gets offended waaay too easily.
I had no idea you could be charged for this, let alone taken to court!?! This is the dumbest ****ing thing I've ever heard. I don't even like Behemoth but I hope the dude gets out okay.
The guy obviously did it to get a reaction, he got just what he was looking for. You can express your disapproval of a religion in so many perfectly reaosnable ways, ripping up the bible is pretty provocative and he can't honestly expect for it not to kick up a fuss.
Don't get me wrong, the reaction to it is pretty bad too, but come on. I don't care if he's just got over an illness, the guy acted like a complete idiot. His behaviour was deliberately insulting to a large demographic of people, he can't expect nothing to come of it.
Just feeling the need to mention that I'm an Atheist, because I know I'm opening myself up to lots of kiddy flaming here. I just know the right way to express my beliefs, as I'm sure lots of other people do.
Well, he's right; the Catholic Church is the most murderous cult to ever have existed on the planet. [quote]
True statement. I'm a Christian myself, and a strong one at that, but I still believe organized religion is bullshit, pretty much an excuse to kill and steal money. It's probably the most corrupt thing on the planet next to government, which is pretty pathetic if you ask me.
[quote] I wouldn't call the bible a book of lies though. [quote]
Agreed. It just depends on the perspective in which you look at it.
Wow UG, did you really expect the comments not to be filled with flamers hating the Catholic CHURCH or accusing them of Satanism over this? Yeah, you're cool, way to go.
The guy obviously did it to get a reaction, he got just what he was looking for. You can express your disapproval of a religion in so many perfectly reaosnable ways, ripping up the bible is pretty provocative and he can't honestly expect for it not to kick up a fuss.
Don't get me wrong, the reaction to it is pretty bad too, but come on. I don't care if he's just got over an illness, the guy acted like a complete idiot. His behaviour was deliberately insulting to a large demographic of people, he can't expect nothing to come of it.
Just feeling the need to mention that I'm an Atheist, because I know I'm opening myself up to lots of kiddy flaming here. I just know the right way to express my beliefs, as I'm sure lots of other people do.
I'm pretty sure what he done was legal, why would people need freedom if not use it?
timi_hendrix wrote:
ripping up the bible is pretty provocative and he can't honestly expect for it not to kick up a fuss.
Well, since the first thing you see if something involving books is found 'satanic' by catholics, the first thing that happens is them burning every copy in 10 mile radius. So this is technically just using their own techniques, minus the fire.
"Place your right hand on the bible. Do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?"
"Well this is kind of ironic"
so the extremists in the UK don't get anything for burning poppies which symbolises a time of great loss for the majority of the western world, burning the flag of the country they reside in, and generally calling everyone in the country who doesn't follow their beliefs enemies of the religion they follow.
a girl throws a Qu'ran on the floor in retaliation and gets ripped to shreds by all,
he rips a bible up in protest against a religion, which to some people may be interpreted as a way of saying organised religions are wrong and you should live how you wish to live and he's faced with prison over it.
religions are too shoved up their own arses to see freedom of speech, they think they're above the law and can make their own laws
Sigh. He's an idiot for not thinking this would cause some sort of spark. I don't care if he did just beat leukemia or whatever, he still just did something stupid. This isn't court worthy though...
I don't get how extreme atheists/satanists/whatever claim that christianity is all evil and people are sheep for sharing their beliefs with others, but it's perfectly fine for someone to rip up a book that they know would offend millions of people and actively call them out and calling them weak minded sheep. Hypocritical it seems.
Sigh. He's an idiot for not thinking this would cause some sort of spark. I don't care if he did just beat leukemia or whatever, he still just did something stupid. This isn't court worthy though...
I don't get how extreme atheists/satanists/whatever claim that christianity is all evil and people are sheep for sharing their beliefs with others, but it's perfectly fine for someone to rip up a book that they know would offend millions of people and actively call them out and calling them weak minded sheep. Hypocritical it seems.
Its called 'prodding the cow' or sheep in this case. Once someone makes sense of the human brain, we'll all understand politics better..
"Place your right hand on the bible. Do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?"
"Well this is kind of ironic"
lmao
I'm pretty sure Mao Xedung or Stalin killed more people than the Catholic church ever did.
*cough* crusades *cough*
You need to read up on your Crusades history to find out the source of all of the violence apparently. And for the fellow who commented on cults, please explain how Stalin and Chairman Mao didn't essentially procure cults themselves? And they were also atheist, so tell me how legitimate it is to state that religion alone is the violent cult?
On an unrelated note, the sick bastard still has every right to be a sick bastard in this case. Shudder.
"Place your right hand on the bible. Do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?"
"Well this is kind of ironic"[/quote]
haha, very funny... if it was Dimmu Borgir, the bible would start burning and everyone's eyes would be wide opened. I would like think of the album Laugh? I Nearly Bought One! from Killing Joke because it also shows the organize religion can support something that's wrong and immoral as well. Look it up, it's kind of funny, but very tragic.
I had no idea you could be charged for this, let alone taken to court!?! This is the dumbest ****ing thing I've ever heard. I don't even like Behemoth but I hope the dude gets out okay.
Well, this didn't happen in the United States. Here, they can't legally charge you with anything. But keep in mind, this happened over in Poland. They may have different laws regarding the freedom of speech than what we in the United States are used to.
Polish-commite agains what?! ALL?! Geez, belive me or not this country is fvckinn sucked^^. They do nothing with sh*tty goverment and criminals when they try destroy anyone who is better than most of the people... huh? It's everywhere like this now? Yeah, that's true -.-''. However this whole thing means... nothing? He would be give maximally some fee to pay... becouse everyone here wants just money. I'm not against church or something, but surely against people who are DULL >.
I don't know what Poland's policies are on freedom of speech so I can't really comment on that, but personally, I'm a christian and the guy is just expressing his opinion which you should have the right to do.
Isn't this something he does onstage ALL THE TIME? It's part of the act folks, a little flair, can't believe people think he's an idiot or shouldn't do it just because it gets a reaction.
Sparky-MMA
religions are too shoved up their own arses to see freedom of speech, they think they're above the law and can make their own laws
Well that's just it, religion teaches that there is freedom from the law's of the world because the laws of the religion are better. And in all honesty if you strictly follow all of the laws taught in the Bible (I can't speak for the Quran or other texts) then you won't break any laws of the world (with granted freedoms at least i.e. not China, Korea etc.)
da.benson8r wrote:
True statement. I'm a Christian myself, and a strong one at that, but I still believe organized religion is bullshit, pretty much an excuse to kill and steal money. It's probably the most corrupt thing on the planet next to government, which is pretty pathetic if you ask me.
Which leads me to my next point, if someone/a church is a part of such organized religion where they are involved in theft, murder etc. then do you honestly think that it is a true depiction of the religion? The church is called to be a safe haven, sure some funds must be taken to sustain the church and it's leaders. But basically any excess money taken to help the leaders/church live in excess of needs is un-Biblical. In case you haven't noticed by now, I am a strong Christian and I am certainly not against organized religions. I am, however, against hypocrites who claim to be "Christian" and ensue in such things as theft and murder and find it just as despicable as all atheists and agnostics. As far as the governments involvement is involved, ideal Christianity is government controlled by the church, but people are way too greedy and easily fall to temptation that it would never work. Though even more I despise organized politics...yes it is true...I'm an anarchist. But only for the fact that even with distribution of power (i.e. democracy) greed will always play the largest role and people are never satisfied with what they have, they are too greedy and always want more
And finally on the topic of Nergal. While I strongly disapprove of his actions and his beliefs I feel as though artistic freedom is part of the divine rights granted by God (whether you believe or not.) God himself claims not to control aspects of our life, though he does indeed frown upon some parts. Why should we give the church or the government that power that God denied himself?
that's a relief. when i saw Nergal on the front page, i thought that they were gonna say he died from leukemia. but luckily he's just on trial for that. that would have ruined my day.
promoting Satanism? i see it more of an Athiest act that really has no meaning. People need to start respecting others way of thoughts more in this world. (just saying)
i live in Holland, and a couple of months ago it was discoverd that thousands of children were raped by catholic priests. And now not even 1 percent of those priests had to go to court FOR RAPING CHILDREN!!! (i dont like behemoth's music, but when i think about these things i start listening to them)
Isn't doing stuff like, like that the oldest ever? *yawn* As a Catholic, I'm just sort of thinking whoop de doo. If he wants to do that let him, not like it's the first time it's happened by any means.
So they're condemning him for condemning them? They're exercising their right to free speech over his?
Wow religion.
I do not have enough face to palm right now.
It seems like they're matching extremity with extremity. It's like, you don't really have to book this poor guy over ripping a bible. On the other hand, what's the point of ripping a bible? That's pretty blatantly hateful, I know they're a black metal band, but if you're going to go the extreme of calling a religions Bible a "book of lies", then yeah, people are going to get pissed.
As far as the governments involvement is involved, ideal Christianity is government controlled by the church
There was a time when church controlled government, these times were known as the "dark ages" and church people proved that they are some of the worst people on the planet. If i ever got famous, I would burn Korans and Bibles all the time just to evoke a response from people who are still dumb enough to believe in a god who hates you.
Polish-commite agains what?! ALL?! Geez, belive me or not this country is fvckinn sucked^^. They do nothing with sh*tty goverment and criminals when they try destroy anyone who is better than most of the people... huh? It's everywhere like this now? Yeah, that's true -.-''. However this whole thing means... nothing? He would be give maximally some fee to pay... becouse everyone here wants just money. I'm not against church or something, but surely against people who are DULL >.
They are being sued from that? lol whats the actual charge? Yeah the world is going down the drain faster and faster. Maybe he should rape some little boy that wouldnt be so shocking to them.
my god some of you people are idiotic... im not even a religious person but i think this guy is EXTREMELY misguided... murderous cult? book of lies? bullshit. he needs help.
my god some of you people are idiotic... im not even a religious person but i think this guy is EXTREMELY misguided... murderous cult? book of lies? bullshit. he needs help.
Whatever. Doesn't change anything about him getting sued for tearing the bible and saying that it's full of lies.
you lot gotta stop saying all this book of lies... and murderous cult stuff... belief in what you want to but don't start saying whats wrong or right...
im glad to here he got other cancer... but then again why would you do something to offend others ??? hes obviously got a screw loose or something ...
I used to be like that...into "666" and hail Satan stuff. I grew out of it when I graduated high school haha. I think all of that sacrilege is pretty stupid. I consider myself Christian, and I don't find it offensive, but it's stupid. What's the point? It's only going to piss people off. I understand it's his belief, but c'mon, I want to hear music, not be preached to. Aiden is one of my favorite bands, and the last time I saw them Wil gave a little speech about how the Bible is full of lies and how it can't be proven, yet he couldn't prove his own theories. It's just such a sensitive issue, and everyone's going to have their own beliefs, so it's best to just shut up and play music. Singing about religious issues is fine, but preaching and being a dick about it isn't cool.
you lot gotta stop saying all this book of lies... and murderous cult stuff... belief in what you want to but don't start saying whats wrong or right...
im glad to here he got other cancer... but then again why would you do something to offend others ??? hes obviously got a screw loose or something ...
That is bullsh*t. Anyone can say what they want. It is a book of lies and it is a very dangerous cult, every "holy book" is and every religion is. Why doesn't anyone have problems with criticizing anything, but when it comes to religions, it's like "no dude, you can't say that about religion". Religions are abomination of the human mind and this world.
my god some of you people are idiotic... im not even a religious person but i think this guy is EXTREMELY misguided... murderous cult? book of lies? bullshit. he needs help.
Although they don't murder at all anymore, yes, a vast majority of people killed in the name of Religion have been killed by Christians, to deny that is ignorant. And considering the bible is to be read as truth, when it in no way is, yes, it's a book of lies.
I'm pretty sure Mao Xedung or Stalin killed more people than the Catholic church ever did.
not even close.
vanhalen241 wrote:
my god some of you people are idiotic... im not even a religious person but i think this guy is EXTREMELY misguided... murderous cult? book of lies? bullshit. he needs help.
you guys need to read a history book. the catholic church in the old days use to torture anyone to death who disagreed with them. some of our greatest minds were censored and wiped out for saying things like "guys the earth isnt the center of the universe" or "hey guys the sun doesnt revolve around us" or "i just found proof that people get sick because of germs, not demons". they are responsible for more evil than anyone other group. what disqualifies them from being labeled a cult? a charismatic leader who has millions of sheep like followers who would do anything he commanded. If that isnt the case anymore, it sure as hell use to be. anyways, it sucks to think that you can go to court for something as trivial as ripping up a book.
"Place your right hand on the bible. Do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?"
"Well this is kind of ironic"
I'm pretty sure Mao Xedung or Stalin killed more people than the Catholic church ever did.
I would not be so sure about that, don't forget the crusades and the bloody genocide they had to do to make the slavs and germans christian (for example the saxon wars)
my god some of you people are idiotic... im not even a religious person but i think this guy is EXTREMELY misguided... murderous cult? book of lies? bullshit. he needs help.
Maybe it's time you realize that not everyone is weak and in need 'guidance' from christianity. He's able to make decisions in his life on his own and I respect him immensely for that. Not many people have control over their lives anymore. They need other people to tell them how to do shit. I think Christians need to turn their guidance on their own priests before they go out and guide others. Clearly, the people closest to the religion are having a hard time following the path of God.
I love how you can judge someone as being "EXTREMELY misguided". Maybe it's time for you to figure yourself out instead of judging others.
Way to go, Mr. Darski. Keep freedom of expression alive!
I'm pretty sure Mao Xedung or Stalin killed more people than the Catholic church ever did.
In a given period of time, sure. The Church has been around far longer than both of them combined; there's no way those 2 killed more people in their lives than the Catholic Church has in roughly 2000 years
"Place your right hand on the bible. Do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?"
"Well this is kind of ironic"
I always wondered how that would apply to an Atheist.
I think everyone here should actually read the bible. Even just Genesis and Leviticus, then you'll understand why people say it's a book of lies. Reading the bible only cemented the view I had of organized religion being an abhorrent concept.
It's their usual live act. Behemoth have always put on intense shows, and when I saw them in Montreal Nergal did the same. Who in their right mind is going to attend one of Behemoth's performances and be surprised by the ripping of a bible?
What's always bothered me about these bible destroyers is how, exactly, do they procure their supply of bibles? Do they buy them or ask for donated copies?
I'm pretty sure Mao Xedung or Stalin killed more people than the Catholic church ever did.
*cough* crusades *cough*
You need to read up on your Crusades history to find out the source of all of the violence apparently. And for the fellow who commented on cults, please explain how Stalin and Chairman Mao didn't essentially procure cults themselves? And they were also atheist, so tell me how legitimate it is to state that religion alone is the violent cult?
On an unrelated note, the sick bastard still has every right to be a sick bastard in this case. Shudder.
uh, NO ONE said christianity was the ONLY violent cult out there or anything, the point was that it's not a bad thing to stand up to one of these 'murderous cults' and speak your mind about their actions... it's easy to judge someone, not so easy to listen to them apparently...
I'm fine with Christians being able to call me a damned, sinful, heathen, which they're legally able to do. Isn't it a bit of a double standard if I can't do the same back? Not that I want to promote hate, but it's fine to deride atheism and offensive to promote it. How is that fair? If I strongly don't believe something is right, as long as I'm not hurting anyone or depriving someone of their rights, I should be able to say so.
well he got the attention he wanted. Of course, he realises he's provoking an easy target, just like everyone else. If you really want to be outrageous, try tearing the Koran or shitting on a Buddha. No, thought you wouldn't have the balls to do that.
No, but seriously this is just ****in' ridiculous.
Problem, freedom of speech?
Poland has anti-blasphemy laws. Retarded? Yeah.
Religion is cancer, and anyone who thinks otherwise is just deluding themselves. It teaches people to hate, it teaches people to feel shame, to feel guilty, to shame others and judge others. It teaches people to satisfy themselves not knowing the world, to believe in fairy tales. Fuck. That.
I'm sick of all the ****ing comments "well, he shouldn't have done that, he should have known this would happen!" - **** you. This is how history gets rewritten, social norms get challenged and society progresses as a whole. Allen Ginsberg's "Howl" got charged as being obscene at the time of its release (it talked about sex, homo and hetero, among other things the "moral majority" loves to parrot about in between fantasizing about white Jesus) in America and went all the way to the highest court - where would we be if they had ruled against him?
Everyone claiming that he shouldn't have done this is no better than the ****ing mullahs in Iran issuing fatwas against Salman Rushdie for criticizing their illogical, irrational, pedophilic, slave religion. Whoops...am I just talking about Islam or all of the Abrahamic religions...seems I've forgotten. Ideas are not above criticism. Ideas do not intrinsically deserve respect. They EARN respect. Religion has done nothing to earn my respect.
you lot gotta stop saying all this book of lies... and murderous cult stuff... belief in what you want to but don't start saying whats wrong or right...
im glad to here he got other cancer... but then again why would you do something to offend others ??? hes obviously got a screw loose or something ...
That is bullsh*t. Anyone can say what they want. It is a book of lies and it is a very dangerous cult, every "holy book" is and every religion is. Why doesn't anyone have problems with criticizing anything, but when it comes to religions, it's like "no dude, you can't say that about religion". Religions are abomination of the human mind and this world.
I'm pretty sure Mao Xedung or Stalin killed more people than the Catholic church ever did.
*cough* crusades *cough*
You need to read up on your Crusades history to find out the source of all of the violence apparently. And for the fellow who commented on cults, please explain how Stalin and Chairman Mao didn't essentially procure cults themselves? And they were also atheist, so tell me how legitimate it is to state that religion alone is the violent cult?
On an unrelated note, the sick bastard still has every right to be a sick bastard in this case. Shudder.
uh, NO ONE said christianity was the ONLY violent cult out there or anything, the point was that it's not a bad thing to stand up to one of these 'murderous cults' and speak your mind about their actions... it's easy to judge someone, not so easy to listen to them apparently...
But why rip up a book full of parables which teach good morals? Why not confront the Church themselves?
No, but seriously this is just ****in' ridiculous.
Problem, freedom of speech?
Poland has anti-blasphemy laws. Retarded? Yeah.
Religion is cancer, and anyone who thinks otherwise is just deluding themselves. It teaches people to hate, it teaches people to feel shame, to feel guilty, to shame others and judge others. It teaches people to satisfy themselves not knowing the world, to believe in fairy tales. Fuck. That.
I agree with you about the anti-blasphemy laws. Freedom of religion FTW.
As for the religion hate, puh-leeze. Cancer? Come on, it's really not like that. Hate, shame, guilt, and judgement are the opposites of what is being taught at most churches. Most teach nothing but love and forgiveness, and encourage people to abstain from judgments of others.
The parts of the Bible that teach hate are considered very archaic, and not the word of God at all by most Christians. The Catholics and Evangelicals don't represent all Christians, by any means.
Religion's done nothing to earn your respect? Based on the messages you think are prominently taught by religions, it doesn't sound like you know enough about religion for it to have earned your disrespect either.
No, but seriously this is just ****in' ridiculous.
Problem, freedom of speech?
Religion is cancer, and anyone who thinks otherwise is just deluding themselves. It teaches people to hate, it teaches people to feel shame, to feel guilty, to shame others and judge others.
Roman 13:9
"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. " Do not to others what thou wouldn't not wish be done to thyself: Forgive injuries. Forgive thy enemy, be reconciled to him, give him assistance, invoke God in his behalf."
Matthew 7:1 (if memory serves me correctly)
"Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: / Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again."
I had no idea you could be charged for this, let alone taken to court!?! This is the dumbest ****ing thing I've ever heard. I don't even like Behemoth but I hope the dude gets out okay.
In the United States you can not be charged for such a thing. It would be considered symbolic speech of a political idea and thus protected under the first amendment. However, other countries can prosecute for such things as ridiculous as it is. Not that I like this band or anything but the guy didn't do anything worthy of legal ramification.
Well that's what happens when some old farts got too much time on their hands. For those of you who don't know Poland can be easily divided into two groups of people. Hardcore catholics who lack proper education and and still act as if it's the communistic 80's, and decent smart people who are tired of all that fanatical bullshit. So this 'battle' will rage on for at least the next 30 years until the dinosaurs die out.
I don't know about Poland's laws, but it seems like he should be allowed to do that... but at the same time, I can't see why he has to. They're a band. Play music. I don't go to concerts to hear about some guys views on religion, I go to hear music.
maybe if he just made an intelligent argument stating the downfalls of relgion instead of ripping up the bible like some kind of 14 year-old that thinks he's being super sweet he wouldnt be in court.
seriously, stupid shit like this is just so dumb and overly extreme it makes me laugh
i live in Holland, and a couple of months ago it was discoverd that thousands of children were raped by catholic priests. And now not even 1 percent of those priests had to go to court FOR RAPING CHILDREN!!! (i dont like behemoth's music, but when i think about these things i start listening to them)
totally agree men, i live in holland to and heard pretty much about it. for me it's okay if someone believes in things, but don't try to sell it to me or thinking they are above the law
i am a christian, (making sure not to be confused with a catholic) but i dont think he deserves to go to court at all, the book itself is just a book, who cares if he destroys one, the courts need to get the sticks out of their arses
We are human,we like arguments,many of us like wars,many like raping children,many like singing about raping virgins and riping out their eyes.That is just the way we roll Behemoth has some nice albums
And humans are full of sh*t my friends,ful of sh*t..Ive actualy noticed some realy smart comments in my opinion but those people are again stupid for getting into this fight and taking it for real...nothing is just black or just white and with that i rest my hands becouse someone will also think what i have said is a complete f***** BS
i live in Holland, and a couple of months ago it was discoverd that thousands of children were raped by catholic priests. And now not even 1 percent of those priests had to go to court FOR RAPING CHILDREN!!! (i dont like behemoth's music, but when i think about these things i start listening to them)
totally agree men, i live in holland to and heard pretty much about it. for me it's okay if someone believes in things, but don't try to sell it to me or thinking they are above the law
it's okay for someone to believe in things. freedom of speech is good as long as it it not violent, cuz it might hurt people and lead to a lot of problems
Yep, I live in Poland and freedom of speech regarding religion here is purely theoretical. Practically... you see what happens. I like my country but this is one of the things I dislike VERY much.
ITS JUST A BOOK , its no more important than the chronicles of narni
If it based on belief then how come i can walk into a public place and tear up a picture of santa claus or the tooth fairy and get away with it? some children believe in them.
Im fed up with people and bands confusing catholics and Christians, two different faiths. Don't blame Christianity for what catholics have done. And idiots like him calling the Bible a book of lies shows how much he actually knows about the Bible!
Wow. I sat in church every week for the first 16 years of my life and they openly condemn gays, non-believers, and whatever the hell else they choose. Now they get mad because one dude openly disagrees with them? pathetic.
i am a christian, (making sure not to be confused with a catholic) but i dont think he deserves to go to court at all, the book itself is just a book, who cares if he destroys one, the courts need to get the sticks out of their arses
If someone did this to a quran then they would definately go to court!! And dude if you are a Christian like me then you should definately know that it is alot more than just a book
The guy obviously did it to get a reaction, he got just what he was looking for. You can express your disapproval of a religion in so many perfectly reaosnable ways, ripping up the bible is pretty provocative and he can't honestly expect for it not to kick up a fuss.
Don't get me wrong, the reaction to it is pretty bad too, but come on. I don't care if he's just got over an illness, the guy acted like a complete idiot. His behaviour was deliberately insulting to a large demographic of people, he can't expect nothing to come of it.
Just feeling the need to mention that I'm an Atheist, because I know I'm opening myself up to lots of kiddy flaming here. I just know the right way to express my beliefs, as I'm sure lots of other people do.
Sorry to tell you, Catholics are christians. Do they not believe in man named Jesus who was their christ? They fit the criteria of being christian. Not to mention they were the one of only two groups of christians for 1500 years.
"A curse on him who is lax in doing the LORD's work! A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed!" Jeremiah 48:10.
You want more verses about christians killing people just respond
Anyways back to the article. Adam Darski should have the right to express himself. Only cowards would try to silence someone because they disagree with that person.
The guy obviously did it to get a reaction, he got just what he was looking for. You can express your disapproval of a religion in so many perfectly reaosnable ways, ripping up the bible is pretty provocative and he can't honestly expect for it not to kick up a fuss.
Don't get me wrong, the reaction to it is pretty bad too, but come on. I don't care if he's just got over an illness, the guy acted like a complete idiot. His behaviour was deliberately insulting to a large demographic of people, he can't expect nothing to come of it.
Just feeling the need to mention that I'm an Atheist, because I know I'm opening myself up to lots of kiddy flaming here. I just know the right way to express my beliefs, as I'm sure lots of other people do.
Or maybe he was trying to make a point? Catholics around the world are getting away with molesting little boys and are hidden by the church.
And also, just because you offend a large group of people you should be prosecuted by the government and silenced? Just by saying you're an atheist offends people. Do you think they should be able to silence you too?
I'm pretty sure Mao Xedung or Stalin killed more people than the Catholic church ever did.
Pretty wrong, aren't you?
I think you'll find that he's right. Check out this link http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html. Bear in mind that the information available isn't perfect and its probable that the death tolls are far higher. Also if you include indirect deaths like starvation cause by Stalin's policies (He used starvation as a state policy) then the figure rises higher.
I'm pretty sure Mao Xedung or Stalin killed more people than the Catholic church ever did.
Pretty wrong, aren't you?
I think you'll find that he's right. Check out this link http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html. Bear in mind that the information available isn't perfect and its probable that the death tolls are far higher. Also if you include indirect deaths like starvation cause by Stalin's policies (He used starvation as a state policy) then the figure rises higher.
The link that provided does not work.
Theres no possible way even under the rule mao (off memory i think he killed upwards of 50 million of his own people) the catholic church killed more. The catholic church really had a strangle hold over almost all of europe for 1500 years. They discourged medical pratice in favor of prayer killing millions. All the crusades killing people. All the holy wars in europe killing people. All the witch and hersey trails killing people. Even today discourging the use of condoms in Africa which spreads AIDs killing thousands.
I'm pretty sure Mao Xedung or Stalin killed more people than the Catholic church ever did.
Pretty wrong, aren't you?
I think you'll find that he's right. Check out this link http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html. Bear in mind that the information available isn't perfect and its probable that the death tolls are far higher. Also if you include indirect deaths like starvation cause by Stalin's policies (He used starvation as a state policy) then the figure rises higher.
The link that provided does not work.
Theres no possible way even under the rule mao (off memory i think he killed upwards of 50 million of his own people) the catholic church killed more. The catholic church really had a strangle hold over almost all of europe for 1500 years. They discourged medical pratice in favor of prayer killing millions. All the crusades killing people. All the holy wars in europe killing people. All the witch and hersey trails killing people. Even today discourging the use of condoms in Africa which spreads AIDs killing thousands.
Oh come on. The Catholic church had 1500 to rack up a body count. Mao did nearly as much in not even a tenth of that time.
Sorry to tell you, Catholics are christians. Do they not believe in man named Jesus who was their christ? They fit the criteria of being christian. Not to mention they were the one of only two groups of christians for 1500 years.
"A curse on him who is lax in doing the LORD's work! A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed!" Jeremiah 48:10.
You want more verses about christians killing people just respond
Anyways back to the article. Adam Darski should have the right to express himself. Only cowards would try to silence someone because they disagree with that person.
Dude the muslims believe in Jesus, but its what Christians and the Bible calls "a different Jesus", (2 Corinthians 11:14) In other words its false religion. A true Christian can see that catholism is the most blasphemous and idolatrous religion on the planet. If your a catholic then the Lord of your life is the pope, and you pray to Mary. If you are a Christian you have one saviour, one Lord, and one God, and his name is Jesus Christ
The guy obviously did it to get a reaction, he got just what he was looking for. You can express your disapproval of a religion in so many perfectly reaosnable ways, ripping up the bible is pretty provocative and he can't honestly expect for it not to kick up a fuss.
Don't get me wrong, the reaction to it is pretty bad too, but come on. I don't care if he's just got over an illness, the guy acted like a complete idiot. His behaviour was deliberately insulting to a large demographic of people, he can't expect nothing to come of it.
Just feeling the need to mention that I'm an Atheist, because I know I'm opening myself up to lots of kiddy flaming here. I just know the right way to express my beliefs, as I'm sure lots of other people do.
Or maybe he was trying to make a point? Catholics around the world are getting away with molesting little boys and are hidden by the church.
And also, just because you offend a large group of people you should be prosecuted by the government and silenced? Just by saying you're an atheist offends people. Do you think they should be able to silence you too?
Don't you think that's a generalization? Really, for the most part.. the only Catholics that got in heat for that were the priests in the church.. To say "Catholics all around the world are molesting children.." is petty, vulgar and extremely ill informed.
Also, if you get offended by someone saying they're an Atheist.. you're a little soft skinned. Again, I think you're over generalizing.
Sorry to tell you, Catholics are christians. Do they not believe in man named Jesus who was their christ? They fit the criteria of being christian. Not to mention they were the one of only two groups of christians for 1500 years.
"A curse on him who is lax in doing the LORD's work! A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed!" Jeremiah 48:10.
You want more verses about christians killing people just respond
Anyways back to the article. Adam Darski should have the right to express himself. Only cowards would try to silence someone because they disagree with that person. Dude the muslims believe in Jesus, but its what Christians and the Bible calls "a different Jesus", (2 Corinthians 11:14) In other words its false religion. A true Christian can see that catholism is the most blasphemous and idolatrous religion on the planet. If your a catholic then the Lord of your life is the pope, and you pray to Mary. If you are a Christian you have one saviour, one Lord, and one God, and his name is Jesus Christ
That, and if you've ever read the Apocrypha you would know and realize the different ideologies behind Catholicism and the other branches of Christianity. Saying Catholics are exactly the same as all other Christians is like saying Thrash Metal is the same as Drone Metal. It's nonsense.
I don't know about Poland's laws, but it seems like he should be allowed to do that... but at the same time, I can't see why he has to. They're a band. Play music. I don't go to concerts to hear about some guys views on religion, I go to hear music.
This anti-religion stuff from Nergal is one of the reasons behind making this music! So this message comes along with the music anyhow.
im christian but REALLY!??! im mean the bible was still written by man...
Dude if you really think this then you either know nothing about the Bible or you are just not a Christian. If you knew the slightest thing about the Bible then you would know full well that it is humanly impossible for man to have written this book. Read the following passages:
Sorry to tell you, Catholics are christians. Do they not believe in man named Jesus who was their christ? They fit the criteria of being christian. Not to mention they were the one of only two groups of christians for 1500 years.
"A curse on him who is lax in doing the LORD's work! A curse on him who keeps his sword from bloodshed!" Jeremiah 48:10.
You want more verses about christians killing people just respond
Anyways back to the article. Adam Darski should have the right to express himself. Only cowards would try to silence someone because they disagree with that person.
Dude the muslims believe in Jesus, but its what Christians and the Bible calls "a different Jesus", (2 Corinthians 11:14) In other words its false religion. A true Christian can see that catholism is the most blasphemous and idolatrous religion on the planet. If your a catholic then the Lord of your life is the pope, and you pray to Mary. If you are a Christian you have one saviour, one Lord, and one God, and his name is Jesus Christ
Muslims do not believe in Jesus's divinity. In no way do muslims believe jesus is christ.
If you're catholic you believe you do not have a direct line of commnication to God but "holy" men like the pope and priests do, there for you must talk through them to talk to god and tell him your sins. Mary and the pope are not gods to catholics.
The belief that the bible (which is written by man) is the ultimate authority was not common well into the 16th and 17th century.
This is just weak. The fact that the Catholic Church has nothing better to do is sad. What happened to world hunger and poverty and all that other stuff. But instead they want to use their time to attempt to trample the rights of a man who is differant then them. If there is a god he probly hates most Catholics today. I for one am no stranger to the fact that people exclude those who are differant purely on the basis that they believe if your differant your wrong. Lol wtf were the guys that wrote the bible thinking is all I can say.
Im fed up with people and bands confusing catholics and Christians, two different faiths. Don't blame Christianity for what catholics have done. And idiots like him calling the Bible a book of lies shows how much he actually knows about the Bible!
Lol, you must be from America?
Catholics áre true Christians. The rest are just split off groups. Know your (Late Roman-Renaissance) history dude.
First of all, Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights should apply.
Secondly, NO LAW should be created that FORCES any individual to respect that which they find deserves no respect.
Being from the US, I'll use US references, but should anyone be FORCED, especially by law, to respect the likes of Fred Phelps and his hate group that bases their beliefs on religion? Should we be forced to respect the likes of Eric Rudolph, who used his religion to commit various murders? There are many specific individuals of the Muslim faith, again SPECIFIC, much as in other religions, that commit violent acts, even murder and torture, based on their religion. Including the likes of Osama Bin Laudin and his followers. Or various religious nations that execute individuals for certain acts, such as naming teddy bears or using the name of a religious icon in a manner other than what the religion allows?
In the US, a few years ago, a bill was introduced in the North Carolina government to deal with abuse, specifically a type taking place in school call "bullying". Religious groups stepped forward and claimed that such laws violated their First Amendment Right to verbally, mentally, physically, and/or sexually abuse others, including children, because their religion was the foundation of that abuse. The bill stalled, but eventually passed. Should ANYONE be FORCED to respect those religions who actually believe that abuse of ANY kind is "moral"?
And there are plenty of other examples, both in and out of the US.
I'm guessing that the organization, "The All-Polish Committee for Defense Against Sects", is a private organization and not some division within the actual government? Either way, though, this organization seems smack in the business of violating Human and Civil Rights, much in the same way the individuals and organizations I previously mentioned are want to do.
If anyone deserves to face legal reprocussions, especially criminal charges, it would be that organization, even more if the organization is tied to the government. Charges that, at the least, should stem from the Human and Civil Rights recognized by such documents as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
The guy obviously did it to get a reaction, he got just what he was looking for. You can express your disapproval of a religion in so many perfectly reaosnable ways, ripping up the bible is pretty provocative and he can't honestly expect for it not to kick up a fuss.
Don't get me wrong, the reaction to it is pretty bad too, but come on. I don't care if he's just got over an illness, the guy acted like a complete idiot. His behaviour was deliberately insulting to a large demographic of people, he can't expect nothing to come of it.
Just feeling the need to mention that I'm an Atheist, because I know I'm opening myself up to lots of kiddy flaming here. I just know the right way to express my beliefs, as I'm sure lots of other people do.
Or maybe he was trying to make a point? Catholics around the world are getting away with molesting little boys and are hidden by the church.
And also, just because you offend a large group of people you should be prosecuted by the government and silenced? Just by saying you're an atheist offends people. Do you think they should be able to silence you too?
Don't you think that's a generalization? Really, for the most part.. the only Catholics that got in heat for that were the priests in the church.. To say "Catholics all around the world are molesting children.." is petty, vulgar and extremely ill informed.
Also, if you get offended by someone saying they're an Atheist.. you're a little soft skinned. Again, I think you're over generalizing.
Its been shown and proven that the very high ups in the Catholic church are shuffling around preists and taking no steps to achieve justice when they ignore the law of the country they are in. They are just as guilty as the ones molesting the children for letting it happen.
nobadnews wrote:
Its been shown and proven that the very high ups in the Catholic church are shuffling around preists and taking no steps to achieve justice when they ignore the law of the country they are in. They are just as guilty as the ones molesting the children for letting it happen.
Alrighty. But burden of proof is on you, and I expect some sort of documented proof about the higher ups took NO steps for justice. Even though when the highly publicize slew of molestations was happening in the late 1990s, those priests were punished ... mainly fired.
Again, I don't see how that makes ALL Catholics accountable for what the few are doing.
@bloodtrocuted93 lol i see your point and not to turn this into a debate forum but my experience with the Catholic church has been nothing but hypocracy. My catholic teachers called me a nazi because i was quiet in class. A NAZI lol wth. And to top that off the chapter we were reading in theology was titled Catholic:Open and respectful to all. But by all they mean only those who agree with them.
If you're catholic you believe you do not have a direct line of commnication to God but "holy" men like the pope and priests do, there for you must talk through them to talk to god and tell him your sins. Mary and the pope are not gods to catholics.
The belief that the bible (which is written by man) is the ultimate authority was not common well into the 16th and 17th century. [/quote] This does not come from the Bible at all, this is more false teaching that the catholics participate in. What the Bible says is that once you accept Christ as your Lord and saviour you are sinnles and you are fully reconciled to God.
I never said muslims believe Jesus is God, thats why i said they believe in "a different Jesus" just like the Bible says. And if you knew the true ins and outs of the Bible then you wouldnt be saying that it is written by man
nobadnews wrote:
Its been shown and proven that the very high ups in the Catholic church are shuffling around preists and taking no steps to achieve justice when they ignore the law of the country they are in. They are just as guilty as the ones molesting the children for letting it happen.
Alrighty. But burden of proof is on you, and I expect some sort of documented proof about the higher ups took NO steps for justice. Even though when the highly publicize slew of molestations was happening in the late 1990s, those priests were punished ... mainly fired.
Again, I don't see how that makes ALL Catholics accountable for what the few are doing.
You could use the arguement that all catholics are accountable because they give money to the church and the church uses this money to hid priests. I don't believe all catholics are responsible just the church itself because i think that people have good intentions about sending their money to the church and don't expect it to be used in this manner.
Here is a link to news story about a letter written by then future pope stalling a trail for a child molestor. I could find more but this is all the time i have to spend on the computer today and i have to go back to work. Bye
meh hes pathetic and stupid...hjust trying to get some ar=ttentio by offending millions pf people
That's EXACTLY what I thought. So many people on here believed organized religion is a terrible thing. It can be a good thing when what they do things right. But ripping a Bible in public like that?? Kudos to Poland for standing up for their beliefs!
but hes still an ******* to do it...im not muslim or jew but i dont burn their teachings...the guys a total freak, just look at him. sure the catholic church isnt perfect (far from it, i personally disagree with many of its teachings) ut to do something like that is basically to insult millions of people. its one thing considering freedom of speech but fact is its not ok to do actions like that its descrimination.
people tend to forget that its not only an act against the church its an act against all of its memeber, people that have nothing to do with the running of it
Im fed up with people and bands confusing catholics and Christians, two different faiths. Don't blame Christianity for what catholics have done. And idiots like him calling the Bible a book of lies shows how much he actually knows about the Bible!
Lol, you must be from America?
Catholics áre true Christians. The rest are just split off groups. Know your (Late Roman-Renaissance) history dude.
What makes u think im from America. Im from England. Catholics are not true Christians because they believe in false teachings that are not from the Bible and they do not have any real love for Jesus in their hearts. If they do then that makes them a Christian, but you cannot be both. Jesus said in the Bible "You are either with me or against me" (Matthew 12:30)
What makes u think im from America. Im from England. Catholics are not true Christians because they believe in false teachings that are not from the Bible and they do not have any real love for Jesus in their hearts. If they do then that makes them a Christian, but you cannot be both. Jesus said in the Bible "You are either with me or against me" (Matthew 12:30)
You realize Catholicism was first right? And also, Anglican is just reformed Catholicism...
whats wrong with promoting satan? i mean, he's not the idea role model, but whos to say that i cant idealize who i want to? it's not a "good" thing to do, ripping up a bible, but why should it be against the law? he's not hurting anyone. also, if you're offended by this, you probably shouldn't be at/watching a Behemoth show, right?
I'm pretty sure Mao Xedung or Stalin killed more people than the Catholic church ever did.
*cough* crusades *cough*
You need to read up on your Crusades history to find out the source of all of the violence apparently. And for the fellow who commented on cults, please explain how Stalin and Chairman Mao didn't essentially procure cults themselves? And they were also atheist, so tell me how legitimate it is to state that religion alone is the violent cult?
On an unrelated note, the sick bastard still has every right to be a sick bastard in this case. Shudder.
uh, NO ONE said christianity was the ONLY violent cult out there or anything, the point was that it's not a bad thing to stand up to one of these 'murderous cults' and speak your mind about their actions... it's easy to judge someone, not so easy to listen to them apparently...
But why rip up a book full of parables which teach good morals? Why not confront the Church themselves?
He wanted the churches attention, and he got it! I'm glad people are finally starting to wake up. GOD IS LIFE, YOU WORSHIP THE SUN FOR CHRIST SAKES, jesus is just a rehashed story from, older religions.. probably dating all the way back to cavemen worshiping the sun. Catholics/Christians go look up Horus, an Egyptian God, and tell me if you notice ANY similarities...
nobadnews wrote:
Its been shown and proven that the very high ups in the Catholic church are shuffling around preists and taking no steps to achieve justice when they ignore the law of the country they are in. They are just as guilty as the ones molesting the children for letting it happen.
Alrighty. But burden of proof is on you, and I expect some sort of documented proof about the higher ups took NO steps for justice. Even though when the highly publicize slew of molestations was happening in the late 1990s, those priests were punished ... mainly fired.
Again, I don't see how that makes ALL Catholics accountable for what the few are doing.
You could use the arguement that all catholics are accountable because they give money to the church and the church uses this money to hid priests. I don't believe all catholics are responsible just the church itself because i think that people have good intentions about sending their money to the church and don't expect it to be used in this manner.
Here is a link to news story about a letter written by then future pope stalling a trail for a child molestor. I could find more but this is all the time i have to spend on the computer today and i have to go back to work. Bye
LOL! Huffington post. I was hoping for something ...credible, but if you actually read the article it simply said Ratzinger wanted to be judiciary about it and look over the facts first. He still gave the priest probation, and as soon as the probation was over... defrocked him. I see no shuffling here.
And if you want to use that backwards ass logic, you would blame the millions of Catholics halfway across the world that gave to THEIR churches.. also halfway around the world from the offending church... for the indiscretion of the few? Puh-lease.
Even if I weren't Christian, I would find your logic to be abhorrent.
I'm pretty sure Mao Xedung or Stalin killed more people than the Catholic church ever did.
*cough* crusades *cough*
You need to read up on your Crusades history to find out the source of all of the violence apparently. And for the fellow who commented on cults, please explain how Stalin and Chairman Mao didn't essentially procure cults themselves? And they were also atheist, so tell me how legitimate it is to state that religion alone is the violent cult?
On an unrelated note, the sick bastard still has every right to be a sick bastard in this case. Shudder.
uh, NO ONE said christianity was the ONLY violent cult out there or anything, the point was that it's not a bad thing to stand up to one of these 'murderous cults' and speak your mind about their actions... it's easy to judge someone, not so easy to listen to them apparently...
But why rip up a book full of parables which teach good morals? Why not confront the Church themselves?
He wanted the churches attention, and he got it! I'm glad people are finally starting to wake up. GOD IS LIFE, YOU WORSHIP THE SUN FOR CHRIST SAKES, jesus is just a rehashed story from, older religions.. probably dating all the way back to cavemen worshiping the sun. Catholics/Christians go look up Horus, an Egyptian God, and tell me if you notice ANY similarities...
Uhm. I think you're very confused. Jesus never had a boat race with anyone. That, and the savior in the Egyptian mythologies was Shed, not Horus.. and even then, Shed's story is actually completely different from Jesus'. The story of Jesus is actually one of the few things in the Bible that WASN'T taken from other mythologies.
Well, except for the Savior aspect. But sure, you can pick at semantics and argue Noah's Ark was simply a re-telling of an old Greek mythos about when Zeus flooded the Earth from Olympus. But that's just it. The Bible, to me, is a book of parables... tales to inspire and teach morals. Much like the works of Vigil and Homer.
I'm pretty sure Mao Xedung or Stalin killed more people than the Catholic church ever did.
/Facepalm @ seeing this argument over and over again.
Being free of religion does not make someone rational.
Being rational makes someone free of religion. If anything, the type of authoritarian dogma used to justify these political ideologies is virtually indistinguishable from religion.
Anyways, this whole case is ludicrous. Assuming he bought or obtained the Bible through legal means, it's his piece of property and he can do whatever he wants with it.
Being free of religion does not make someone rational.
Being rational makes someone free of religion. If anything, the type of authoritarian dogma used to justify these political ideologies is virtually indistinguishable from religion.
I don't see how being religious makes one a prisoner. There are such things as enlightenment. And people CAN get it through religion and faith.
No, but seriously this is just ****in' ridiculous.
Problem, freedom of speech?
Religion is cancer, and anyone who thinks otherwise is just deluding themselves. It teaches people to hate, it teaches people to feel shame, to feel guilty, to shame others and judge others.
Roman 13:9
"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. " Do not to others what thou wouldn't not wish be done to thyself: Forgive injuries. Forgive thy enemy, be reconciled to him, give him assistance, invoke God in his behalf."
Matthew 7:1 (if memory serves me correctly)
"Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: / Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again."
....cut right through your bullshit, eh?
Just to use this particular quote cuz...
Okay, in the end, its just your crap verses our crap, so its all crap, Nergal doesn't even need to rip a bible up for anyone to realise it. STOP FIGHTING OVER WHO'S ANSWER TO THE UNIVERSE BEATS WHOS, IT DOES NOT MATTER, IF THEY ARE BOTH MADE BY HUMANS, THEN THEY ARE BOTH EQUALLY FLAWED, STUPID, BELLIGERENT AND POINTLESS.
The dude just got over cancer, at least have some restraint.
Well, he's right; the Catholic Church is the most murderous cult to ever have existed on the planet. I wouldn't call the bible a book of lies though. It's a story book and some people can take something positive from those stories.
Regardless of weather he's right or not there's a basic human right called freedom of speech and it should definately cover this. This case is a joke and it's insulting to the tax payers of Poland to be paying to protect a religion that gets offended waaay too easily.
Do you ever stop to think before you speak, or do you just regurgitate liberal propaganda automatically? Catholic church is the most murderous? Have you heard of Islam? Have you heard of Atheism? Paganism? Try reading history. You may also want to think about the fact that the Catholic Church virtually single-handedly preserved western culture after the fall of the Roman Empire. You can thank them for the little things like knowledge of the ancient world, writing, architecture, engineering, etc. All of which would have been lost without the church.
Second, never mind the Catholic church, I love the hypocrisy of these "freedom fighters" it's such nonsense. Explain to me how you reconcile all of the demonic imagery, all things evil, etc., that these bands use and then they point the finger at the Catholic Church. I'm confused? Are you really bad-ass satan worshipers? Or are you using occult imagery as a gimmick. Are you truly hypocrites in that you worship evil forces and then turn around and act like you're standing up for rights? Here's the more likely scenario: you still have a juvenile sense of dark imagery as "cool" so you don the silly makeup and spikes in an effort to look intimidating. Meanwhile you don't even realize that every aspect of your image and persona is borrowed from the Judeo-Christian mythos, which you claim to be rallying against. Seems to me you're just another example of an uneducated moron. Otherwise you might realize that even the name of your band originated within the book you recently tore up on stage. To mock it, is to mock yourself. It's no different than hypocrisy of pro-life zealots killing abortion doctors.
Being free of religion does not make someone rational.
Being rational makes someone free of religion. If anything, the type of authoritarian dogma used to justify these political ideologies is virtually indistinguishable from religion.
I don't see how being religious makes one a prisoner. There are such things as enlightenment. And people CAN get it through religion and faith.
Well, 1.) It depends how you define "religion". Personally, I think the only really clear and practical definition of religion is either faith-based philosophy(which in my opinion is tantamount to nothing more than an abstraction, i.e. believing in something without having reason to believe in it) OR it can be defined loosely as following a set of rules, which is by no means a bad thing. No matter what you believe in, there are always rules. Some kind of order is inescapable, unless you're completely insane, or something of that sort.
2.) "Freedom" is kind of a relative thing in this sense. It's really just a case of giving up one thing for another. I think for many people, religion is a band-aid that they put on a wound, to cope with the pain of being human. People have such an immense tendency to think the grass is always greener on the other side of the hill, which is why it's such a prominent, stereotypical thing for people who have lived full lives, who are in their 40-50s to look back on all the debauchery in their lives, alcoholism, promiscuity, abortions, etc. and feel such a strong psychological compulsion to try to wipe the slate clean, and to they will cling to the first ideology they feel can justify forgetting, even denying and covering up their own pasts. The downside of that is that, as someone who spent 15 years in private religious institutions can tell you, many of these people become very reactionary, and tend to resort to authoritarian ways of governing, parenting, administrating, etc. that are far from conducive to critical thinking and intellectual honesty. And essentially, the people who are raised into the furthest extreme of this way of thinking(which is way more than you know), are basically taught that there is no point in understanding anything, because at the end of the day, it's all just magic, as well as the questionable view that all human beings deserve to burn in hell for eternity...
But I digress. I'm really not here to convince you that religion is bad. You can go on thinking as you like
My point was merely that the argument he made is fallacious, because the position of atheists/rationalists is that religion is a form of irrationalism, not that it is the only form of irrationalism.
What makes u think im from America. Im from England. Catholics are not true Christians because they believe in false teachings that are not from the Bible and they do not have any real love for Jesus in their hearts. If they do then that makes them a Christian, but you cannot be both. Jesus said in the Bible "You are either with me or against me" (Matthew 12:30)
You realize Catholicism was first right? And also, Anglican is just reformed Catholicism...
Dunno where you've heard that dude but the catholic teachings came hundreds of years after the days of Jesus. Catholism is nothing more than false Christianity so how can the false version come along before the real thing. And I am not anglican, a true Christian has no denomination, I am just a disciple of Jesus Christ. There is alot of false Christians going to be hearing a certain verse one day from Jesus: "They will say, Lord Lord, didn't we do wonderful things all in your name? And Jesus replies:" I never knew you!! get away from me!" (Matthew 7:22-23) These are the ones who dont have any true love for Jesus in their hearts and who turn to false idols (for example; the pope)
what I don't get is if this really part of their live act, then was he really ripping up a bible? or just some random stack of paper?
Now onto more serious matters, if he just survived cancer then thats because god has a plan for him! (well no..but) So maybe his plan was for him to rip up the bible and make everyone aware of the BS that is the bible.
I admite I am not the most informed person when it comes to religion, but how can so many people believe a book who people say is the word of god, when the whole thing is "according to" someone else?
Also, the whole concept of "political correctness" just falls apart in this context. Who is going to be "offended" by him ripping up a Bible? Are there any Christians going to some Behemoth show in Poland, and if so, why? I imagine the majority of people there must share a somewhat similar mindset to the band. Isn't the idea that they shouldn't be allowed to tear up a Bible "offensive" to the majority of the people there? Stupid logic is stupid.
They are being sued from that? lol whats the actual charge? Yeah the world is going down the drain faster and faster. Maybe he should rape some little boy that wouldnt be so shocking to them.
They'd probably make him an honorary priest.
Phantasmasaurus wrote:
Anyways, this whole case is ludicrous. Assuming he bought or obtained the Bible through legal means, it's his piece of property and he can do whatever he wants with it.
He did it because he wanted a reaction, and he knew he would get one by doing something extreme like this. Why is everyone here surprised that he got a major reaction
He shouldn't get imprisoned for it though, especially under the charge of "promoting satanism". That's a straw man if I ever saw one.
I'm pretty sure Mao Xedung or Stalin killed more people than the Catholic church ever did.
*cough* crusades *cough*
You need to read up on your Crusades history to find out the source of all of the violence apparently. And for the fellow who commented on cults, please explain how Stalin and Chairman Mao didn't essentially procure cults themselves? And they were also atheist, so tell me how legitimate it is to state that religion alone is the violent cult?
On an unrelated note, the sick bastard still has every right to be a sick bastard in this case. Shudder.
uh, NO ONE said christianity was the ONLY violent cult out there or anything, the point was that it's not a bad thing to stand up to one of these 'murderous cults' and speak your mind about their actions... it's easy to judge someone, not so easy to listen to them apparently...
But why rip up a book full of parables which teach good morals? Why not confront the Church themselves?
He wanted the churches attention, and he got it! I'm glad people are finally starting to wake up. GOD IS LIFE, YOU WORSHIP THE SUN FOR CHRIST SAKES, jesus is just a rehashed story from, older religions.. probably dating all the way back to cavemen worshiping the sun. Catholics/Christians go look up Horus, an Egyptian God, and tell me if you notice ANY similarities...
Uhm. I think you're very confused. Jesus never had a boat race with anyone. That, and the savior in the Egyptian mythologies was Shed, not Horus.. and even then, Shed's story is actually completely different from Jesus'. The story of Jesus is actually one of the few things in the Bible that WASN'T taken from other mythologies.
Well, except for the Savior aspect. But sure, you can pick at semantics and argue Noah's Ark was simply a re-telling of an old Greek mythos about when Zeus flooded the Earth from Olympus. But that's just it. The Bible, to me, is a book of parables... tales to inspire and teach morals. Much like the works of Vigil and Homer.
way to ignore what i said, no im talking about horus not shed, http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5b.htm, that's not my original reference, just one random result of many google search results. in either case, your religion teaches tolerance and freedom no? then why would you persecute another person for expressing themselves? religion has too much contradiction to be taken seriously in my eyes...
My point was merely that the argument he made is fallacious, because the position of atheists/rationalists is that religion is a form of irrationalism, not that it is the only form of irrationalism.
Ah, so it's opinion. That's what that wall of text chalks up to. Cool.
I'm pretty sure Mao Xedung or Stalin killed more people than the Catholic church ever did.
*cough* crusades *cough*
You need to read up on your Crusades history to find out the source of all of the violence apparently. And for the fellow who commented on cults, please explain how Stalin and Chairman Mao didn't essentially procure cults themselves? And they were also atheist, so tell me how legitimate it is to state that religion alone is the violent cult?
On an unrelated note, the sick bastard still has every right to be a sick bastard in this case. Shudder.
uh, NO ONE said christianity was the ONLY violent cult out there or anything, the point was that it's not a bad thing to stand up to one of these 'murderous cults' and speak your mind about their actions... it's easy to judge someone, not so easy to listen to them apparently...
But why rip up a book full of parables which teach good morals? Why not confront the Church themselves?
He wanted the churches attention, and he got it! I'm glad people are finally starting to wake up. GOD IS LIFE, YOU WORSHIP THE SUN FOR CHRIST SAKES, jesus is just a rehashed story from, older religions.. probably dating all the way back to cavemen worshiping the sun. Catholics/Christians go look up Horus, an Egyptian God, and tell me if you notice ANY similarities...
Uhm. I think you're very confused. Jesus never had a boat race with anyone. That, and the savior in the Egyptian mythologies was Shed, not Horus.. and even then, Shed's story is actually completely different from Jesus'. The story of Jesus is actually one of the few things in the Bible that WASN'T taken from other mythologies.
Well, except for the Savior aspect. But sure, you can pick at semantics and argue Noah's Ark was simply a re-telling of an old Greek mythos about when Zeus flooded the Earth from Olympus. But that's just it. The Bible, to me, is a book of parables... tales to inspire and teach morals. Much like the works of Vigil and Homer.
way to ignore what i said, no im talking about horus not shed, http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5b.htm, that's not my original reference, just one random result of many google search results. in either case, your religion teaches tolerance and freedom no? then why would you persecute another person for expressing themselves? religion has too much contradiction to be taken seriously in my eyes...
I've never personally persecuted someone for their beliefs. Sounds like you're doing enough of that for the both of us.
Also, details of one's life can be altered. It wasn't until the 18th century that people actually started creating the mythology behind Horus (again)..which was "reimagined" by Roman Catholics to make it more accessible for the proselytizing masses.. I didn't ignore what you said, I'm simply stating that the things Jesus stood for.. and the things he did are infinitely different from Horus. Hence why I made the joke about the boat race. Horus' motivations for doing what he did were completely different from that of Jesus.
And I brought up Shed because he was more like Jesus than Horus. Being the whole Savior backstory with the both of them. Shed was considered their "messiah" ..not Horus.
No, but seriously this is just ****in' ridiculous.
Problem, freedom of speech?
Religion is cancer, and anyone who thinks otherwise is just deluding themselves. It teaches people to hate, it teaches people to feel shame, to feel guilty, to shame others and judge others.
Roman 13:9
"Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. " Do not to others what thou wouldn't not wish be done to thyself: Forgive injuries. Forgive thy enemy, be reconciled to him, give him assistance, invoke God in his behalf."
Matthew 7:1 (if memory serves me correctly)
"Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: / Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again."
....cut right through your bullshit, eh?
Just to use this particular quote cuz...
Okay, in the end, its just your crap verses our crap, so its all crap, Nergal doesn't even need to rip a bible up for anyone to realise it. STOP FIGHTING OVER WHO'S ANSWER TO THE UNIVERSE BEATS WHOS, IT DOES NOT MATTER, IF THEY ARE BOTH MADE BY HUMANS, THEN THEY ARE BOTH EQUALLY FLAWED, STUPID, BELLIGERENT AND POINTLESS.
The dude just got over cancer, at least have some restraint.
I was just pointing out in the flaw in his argument. Claiming the bible promotes people "to hate, it teaches people to feel shame, to feel guilty, to shame others and judge others." ..
And I don't care if Nergal had cancer. If he's well enough to rip apart a book, then he's well enough to take a few people commenting about him on the intrawebz.
My only problem with this, is the fact he ripped a bible. Not because I think it's a holy object.. but because it perplexes me. Why a bible? Why not ACTUALLY do something proactive? Like actually confronting a church? Perhaps trying to have civilized debate with a priest? Anything less childish than ripping up some paper on stage.
My point was merely that the argument he made is fallacious, because the position of atheists/rationalists is that religion is a form of irrationalism, not that it is the only form of irrationalism.
Ah, so it's opinion. That's what that wall of text chalks up to. Cool.
False. There's no way that "it's opinion" is equivocal with that statement.
Organised religion is a hypocritical pox on the face of humanity, using weak minded and willed people some empty "hope" of salvation. Most are inherently full of contradictions and lies and all are responsible for acts of genocide, hatred, torture, suffering, bigotry and subterfuge. Why should any (mass) printed material be treated as more sacred or deserving of it's own rule than any other?
Face it, the Yellow Pages is more useful to most people than any overly long story book that has been interpreted by malevolent forces to extract the meanings they want to suit their own ends.
The Catholic church is one of the ricshest organisations in Europe, if not the world. Yet weekly they insist on handing out a plate to receive donations...
If any conviction is passed because of this then it is a travesty of justice, a mockery of law and potentially orchestrated (and financed) by the church. Ridiculous.
I've never personally persecuted someone for their beliefs. Sounds like you're doing enough of that for the both of us.
Also, details of one's life can be altered. It wasn't until the 18th century that people actually started creating the mythology behind Horus (again)..which was "reimagined" by Roman Catholics to make it more accessible for the proselytizing masses.. I didn't ignore what you said, I'm simply stating that the things Jesus stood for.. and the things he did are infinitely different from Horus. Hence why I made the joke about the boat race. Horus' motivations for doing what he did were completely different from that of Jesus.
And I brought up Shed because he was more like Jesus than Horus. Being the whole Savior backstory with the both of them. Shed was considered their "messiah" ..not Horus.
But do you see all the conflict because of religion? Why have something when it's just another label to divide us? I know it's just a matter of different people make up the world and all, but religion is easily exploited unless the individual person is to make up their own philosohpy as opposed to choosing a religion formed by another person. I'm just trying to encourage people to develop their thought process. Fun fact: Jesus would've been histories first anarchist because he spread the idea of not using using force on your fellow man
People aren't raging over this because it's the Bible, but because it's the holy instrument of the said religion. Honestly, Americans would ABSOLUTELY RAGE if someone burned the American flag, so why rip the Bible? Why would you tear the pages of what someone else believes to be holy and then go on to say it's "artistic"?
How do you even say it's not intended to hurt people after you called it a book of lies and tore it apart?
I hope you guys realize that most, if not all people (even the religious ones), would agree that what Catholics used to do to people who weren't with their point of view was WRONG. For some reason those against religion love to point it out but I really don't know why.
People aren't raging over this because it's the Bible, but because it's the holy instrument of the said religion. Honestly, Americans would ABSOLUTELY RAGE if someone burned the American flag, so why rip the Bible? Why would you tear the pages of what someone else believes to be holy and then go on to say it's "artistic"?
How do you even say it's not intended to hurt people after you called it a book of lies and tore it apart?
I hope you guys realize that most, if not all people (even the religious ones), would agree that what Catholics used to do to people who weren't with their point of view was WRONG. For some reason those against religion love to point it out but I really don't know why.
To one person, a baseball cap might be just as "sacred" as the Bible is to another. Don't you see a problem here? People can start religions and cults and claim that whatever they want is sacred, and that whatever they want is offensive. Why should we make exceptions for some groups and not others? Don't you realize that the very idea that people should have their own personal liberty to do what they want with their own property restricted is in itself offensive to some people? Sure, it might be insulting, but don't you realize how convoluted the law system would be if insulting people was made illegal? People need to learn that they don't have the freedom to not be offended, they only have the freedom to be mature enough to not be offended. I don't go around trying to prosecute Christians for ripping Sam Harris books. If you own something, you do with it what you want.
No need to hate christianity. I'm a Christian, and while I am a little offended someone would do that, it certainly isn't grounds for a trial. Believe what you want as long as you dont preach hatred against others
Protip: the laws that are in america aren't the same everywhere in the world. Poland is extremely catholic, with over 90% of the population being catholic. So seeing how the majority is that big for just one religion, it would be hard to imagine that it would have no influence on their laws over there
he ripped the bible at a concert, where like minded fans came to see his band, so i dont think it should be an issue.if he ripped it in public that wouldnt be ok
No, but seriously this is just ****in' ridiculous.
Problem, freedom of speech?
Poland has anti-blasphemy laws. Retarded? Yeah.
Religion is cancer, and anyone who thinks otherwise is just deluding themselves. It teaches people to hate, it teaches people to feel shame, to feel guilty, to shame others and judge others. It teaches people to satisfy themselves not knowing the world, to believe in fairy tales. Fuck. That.
I'm sick of all the ****ing comments "well, he shouldn't have done that, he should have known this would happen!" - **** you. This is how history gets rewritten, social norms get challenged and society progresses as a whole. Allen Ginsberg's "Howl" got charged as being obscene at the time of its release (it talked about sex, homo and hetero, among other things the "moral majority" loves to parrot about in between fantasizing about white Jesus) in America and went all the way to the highest court - where would we be if they had ruled against him?
Everyone claiming that he shouldn't have done this is no better than the ****ing mullahs in Iran issuing fatwas against Salman Rushdie for criticizing their illogical, irrational, pedophilic, slave religion. Whoops...am I just talking about Islam or all of the Abrahamic religions...seems I've forgotten. Ideas are not above criticism. Ideas do not intrinsically deserve respect. They EARN respect. Religion has done nothing to earn my respect.
Quoting because it was completely ignored.
Also, ATHEISM is NOT A RELIGION.
Stalin and Mao did not kill in the name of a religion, but they followed an extremely dogmatic set of values.
They were basically cults of personality.
And to those quoting bible verses, you are cherry picking the few parts that don't give permission to stone and kill people.
to everyone defending the bible you do realize that throughout centuries popes,kings,queens,scribes,cardinals etc.have made changes to fit what they think not to mention lots of it have undoutably been lost in translation after translation so even if athiests and everyone aside from jesus are wrong your not defending what the original authors had intended.
i live in Holland, and a couple of months ago it was discoverd that thousands of children were raped by catholic priests. And now not even 1 percent of those priests had to go to court FOR RAPING CHILDREN!!! (i dont like behemoth's music, but when i think about these things i start listening to them)
Stalin and Mao did not kill in the name of a religion, but they followed an extremely dogmatic set of values.
They were basically cults of personality.
And to those quoting bible verses, you are cherry picking the few parts that don't give permission to stone and kill people.
"If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her." (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
I wonder who was at the concert that ratted them out. Then again I could see some Holiness preacher here in America that would go to a metal show just to pick out everything that God would hate about this band so he could brand all metal as devil worshipers. Too bad God already condemned ALL of mankind after Adam ate the apple.
Why should anything come of this... he didn't do it on live television or some kind of religious gathering. He did it a Behemoth concert. If anybody was that much of a religious nut, to the point of being offended by this act, they wouldn't be listening to Behemoth anyway.
No, but seriously this is just ****in' ridiculous.
Problem, freedom of speech?
Poland has anti-blasphemy laws. Retarded? Yeah.
Religion is cancer, and anyone who thinks otherwise is just deluding themselves. It teaches people to hate, it teaches people to feel shame, to feel guilty, to shame others and judge others. It teaches people to satisfy themselves not knowing the world, to believe in fairy tales. Fuck. That.
I'm sick of all the ****ing comments "well, he shouldn't have done that, he should have known this would happen!" - **** you. This is how history gets rewritten, social norms get challenged and society progresses as a whole. Allen Ginsberg's "Howl" got charged as being obscene at the time of its release (it talked about sex, homo and hetero, among other things the "moral majority" loves to parrot about in between fantasizing about white Jesus) in America and went all the way to the highest court - where would we be if they had ruled against him?
Everyone claiming that he shouldn't have done this is no better than the ****ing mullahs in Iran issuing fatwas against Salman Rushdie for criticizing their illogical, irrational, pedophilic, slave religion. Whoops...am I just talking about Islam or all of the Abrahamic religions...seems I've forgotten. Ideas are not above criticism. Ideas do not intrinsically deserve respect. They EARN respect. Religion has done nothing to earn my respect.
Fantastic. Best post here, easily. What Nergal has done is by no means new, but assuming he is genuine in his conviction, expressing his view should, in a perfect world, remain without reprimand from the court or some political body. In a perfect world. - The ones on the other end are welcome to disagree, sure. But the other point commonly made yet unheeded, is that the symbols and institutions of the major religions such as Christianity or Islam - cause far more offence to a person who disagrees with those systems, because they're integrated into our everyday culture and widely accepted - so you're forced to contend with them. Which would be fine if you didn't get murdered or sued for criticizing them. -
Nergal, as a citizen of Poland and - assuming - a thoughtful individual with developed critical thinking - has every right to express his distaste with what he disagrees with. Furthermore, seeing as it was a performance, a theatrical presentation of those views is the most direct way of demonstrating his views on the issue. Whether Polish legislation agrees or not, is irrelevant.
ur all going about this the wrong way. im a christian but i believe that if he bought it then it is his possession and he has every right to burn it or do anything else to it that he wants. i believe that the bible is true but whether u believe it is true or not or whether u believe all of it or not u can stil learn from it. u can learn a lot from other sacred books too. thats why whenever i have kids i wil teach them every religion. then they can choose for themselves. and they will also have a better tolerance of other people. thats something we all need to do a better job of. accept who other people are and move on.
This is what happens when bands start to believe they are more important than they are. Shut the @%$# up and play music. You don't like the bible? Fine. tear it up at home.
No need to hate christianity. I'm a Christian, and while I am a little offended someone would do that, it certainly isn't grounds for a trial. Believe what you want as long as you dont preach hatred against others
Yeah, at least this guy ain't a westboro baptist member! I don't like Behemoth, but I believe that he just voiced an opinion and that nobody has the right to persecute him for his beliefs!
Ripping up the Bible on stage is a silly stunt, not a carefully crafted theological argument. People do that sort of crap deliberately to piss of the religious types and it works like clockwork for the most part. And so it's illegal to do that in Poland? Whatever, maybe he ought to rip up a copy of the Polish penal code on stage, but first maybe read a page or two. If you don't like the law, maybe you should write your legislator about it, otherwise perhaps you can come up with some legal publicity stunt. Or maybe act like an adult, say you don't like the Bible, sing your ****ing song, and be done with it.
And that leads us to this... what we get is a comment page full of the religious generally going into a tizzy and the nonreligious blowharding about the Crusades.
Doesn't everyone know how to look shit up on Wikipedia... The Crusades was about theology about as much as Space Balls is about general relativity.
but hes still an ***** to do it...im not muslim or jew but i dont burn their teachings...the guys a total freak, just look at him. sure the catholic church isnt perfect (far from it, i personally disagree with many of its teachings) ut to do something like that is basically to insult millions of people. its one thing considering freedom of speech but fact is its not ok to do actions like that its descrimination.
people tend to forget that its not only an act against the church its an act against all of its memeber, people that have nothing to do with the running of it
but hes still an ***** to do it...im not muslim or jew but i dont burn their teachings...the guys a total freak, just look at him. sure the catholic church isnt perfect (far from it, i personally disagree with many of its teachings) ut to do something like that is basically to insult millions of people. its one thing considering freedom of speech but fact is its not ok to do actions like that its descrimination.
people tend to forget that its not only an act against the church its an act against all of its memeber, people that have nothing to do with the running of it
That's the dumbest thing i've heard all week! This guy should be able to voice his opinion without getting hated on!
Eirien :
Well, he's right; the Catholic Church is the most murderous cult to ever have existed on the planet. I wouldn't call the bible a book of lies though. It's a story book and some people can take something positive from those stories.
Regardless of weather he's right or not there's a basic human right called freedom of speech and it should definately cover this. This case is a joke and it's insulting to the tax payers of Poland to be paying to protect a religion that gets offended waaay too easily.
"Place your right hand on the bible. Do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?"
"Well this is kind of ironic"
lmao
1000 points!
Too bad they don't mean anything.
That's right, just like free speech in Poland, the points don't mean a thing.
Ripping up the Bible on stage is a silly stunt, not a carefully crafted theological argument. People do that sort of crap deliberately to piss of the religious types and it works like clockwork for the most part. And so it's illegal to do that in Poland? Whatever, maybe he ought to rip up a copy of the Polish penal code on stage, but first maybe read a page or two. If you don't like the law, maybe you should write your legislator about it, otherwise perhaps you can come up with some legal publicity stunt. Or maybe act like an adult, say you don't like the Bible, sing your ****ing song, and be done with it.
And that leads us to this... what we get is a comment page full of the religious generally going into a tizzy and the nonreligious blowharding about the Crusades.
Doesn't everyone know how to look shit up on Wikipedia... The Crusades was about theology about as much as Space Balls is about general relativity.
Great points. Totally agree. None of this has anything to do with religion or belief systems or hate or love or anything. It's about power. People who have power will keep it by all means available. The Catholic Church during the Dark Ages terrorized the populous. Mao killed millions not because he believed in the moronic philosophy of socialism. He killed to keep power. People speak their minds to gain power. That's okay, so long as they don't attempt to gain power over other beings.
Ripping up the Bible on stage is a silly stunt, not a carefully crafted theological argument. People do that sort of crap deliberately to piss of the religious types and it works like clockwork for the most part. And so it's illegal to do that in Poland? Whatever, maybe he ought to rip up a copy of the Polish penal code on stage, but first maybe read a page or two. If you don't like the law, maybe you should write your legislator about it, otherwise perhaps you can come up with some legal publicity stunt. Or maybe act like an adult, say you don't like the Bible, sing your ****ing song, and be done with it.
And that leads us to this... what we get is a comment page full of the religious generally going into a tizzy and the nonreligious blowharding about the Crusades.
Doesn't everyone know how to look shit up on Wikipedia... The Crusades was about theology about as much as Space Balls is about general relativity.
Great points. Totally agree. None of this has anything to do with religion or belief systems or hate or love or anything. It's about power. People who have power will keep it by all means available. The Catholic Church during the Dark Ages terrorized the populous. Mao killed millions not because he believed in the moronic philosophy of socialism. He killed to keep power. People speak their minds to gain power. That's okay, so long as they don't attempt to gain power over other beings.
Most of the world is not free. If you have the right to speak your mind, like we are doing now, you should be thankful. This stunt, even though it was silly, needs to be allowed. To choose less freedom is to choose more tyranny. I would suppose that most of you hate religion because you feel that it takes away your freedom, but you also have to be careful not to stifle the speech of those who disagree with you.
you lot gotta stop saying all this book of lies... and murderous cult stuff... belief in what you want to but don't start saying whats wrong or right...
im glad to here he got other cancer... but then again why would you do something to offend others ??? hes obviously got a screw loose or something ...
That is bullsh*t. Anyone can say what they want. It is a book of lies and it is a very dangerous cult, every "holy book" is and every religion is. Why doesn't anyone have problems with criticizing anything, but when it comes to religions, it's like "no dude, you can't say that about religion". Religions are abomination of the human mind and this world.
This guy just got over cancer, doesnt he realize there are better things to do with his remaining time then making a hate speech about a dying religion?
I'm pretty sure Mao Xedung or Stalin killed more people than the Catholic church ever did.
True, but it doesn't negate the fact that he committed no crime whatsoever. I've seen Marilyn Manson wipe his ass with an American flag before with no court case involved. Patriots are evidently less sensitive than Religious folk.
I'm pretty sure Mao Xedung or Stalin killed more people than the Catholic church ever did.
Really? Ever heard of the Crusades?
You do realize that the Church lost all but one of the Crusades right? It was more of a Christian slaughter than anything really, and a waste of time and resources.
People always say things like "Only islam can take so much offense from destroying a Quran. Christians wouldn't even care if the Bible was destroyed in public"...well, guess they were wrong.
My band found ourselves in an awkward situation about a week ago when the gig we're playing tonight was advertized as "Midsommarrocken" (midsummer rock). As a JOKE we had an emo kid crucified to a maypole on our posters. It's a ****ing drawing. And someone labeled it "indecent" and tore down every ****ing poster in the city the gig was at. -.- Again, not only muslims can't take a joke when it comes to pictures.
I'm pretty sure Mao Xedung or Stalin killed more people than the Catholic church ever did.
and you'd be wrong.
" Although I do not publicly recognize the principles outlined in the Bible or the Ten Commandments, that does not mean that I am not a decent and useful human being."
The fact that there are still countries in the world where this kind of statement is necessary is extremely sad.
"Place your right hand on the bible. Do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?"
"Well this is kind of ironic"
In Poland you are only informed that telling lies on course is against our laws. God isn't involved, although we have crosses hanged in almost all government buildings etc. :x
I'm pretty sure Mao Xedung or Stalin killed more people than the Catholic church ever did.
Really? Ever heard of the Crusades?
Stalin killed about 50 million of his own people.
Mao killed about 70 million of his own people.
All the Crusades combined totaled less than 10 million.
However, the Crusades were a response to the invasion of Islam in Europe. A chief goal of the Crusades was to return Jerusalem to the Jews. The Crusades were NOT about imposing Communism on a nation.
To be fair, the Spanish Inquisition caused the death of possibly 250,000. But that is, by far, the largest estimate. Many historians suggest the total was really more like 10,000.
While you probably don't understand it, the Bible is actually the most remarkable puzzle ever written. Part of the proof of its divine inspiration is prophecy. (Isaiah 46:9,10)
The 11th and 12th chapters of Daniel actually foretold the rising of Xerxes, Alexander the Great, the Ptolemy and Seleucid empires, the outcome of the wars they fought and foretells details about the future rulers of that era until the end of time.
In case you can't tell, a person must be diligent in their study of world history to understand.
In the near future the ruler of Egypt will attack Iraq or possibly Iran. The king of the south is Egypt (the remnant of Ptolemy's empire). The king of the north is the Seleucid empire, traditionally known as Babylon. That land mass was Iraq and probably included much of Iran, as well.
The Seleucid empire will win, and that leader will be identified as "the beast." Many people refer to him as the "anti-christ." However, that term is not accurate. Anti-christ is actually the spiritual force behind the beast.
My best guess is somewhere between 2017 and 2021. Those calculations are based on a variety of sources, and observations of current world political events. After this war, the ruler of the northern empire will go to Jerusalem and erect an image of himself in the New Temple that is about to be built on the Temple Mount. This act is the time he will declare himself to be God, and the Great Tribulation will begin.
If you are not ready, good luck.
This Nergal character, of whom I know nothing, has the right to do anything he wants. But, he is choosing ignorance. That is foolish.
I'm pretty sure Mao Xedung or Stalin killed more people than the Catholic church ever did.
Really? Ever heard of the Crusades?
Stalin killed about 50 million of his own people.
Mao killed about 70 million of his own people.
All the Crusades combined totaled less than 10 million.
However, the Crusades were a response to the invasion of Islam in Europe. A chief goal of the Crusades was to return Jerusalem to the Jews. The Crusades were NOT about imposing Communism on a nation.
To be fair, the Spanish Inquisition caused the death of possibly 250,000. But that is, by far, the largest estimate. Many historians suggest the total was really more like 10,000.
While you probably don't understand it, the Bible is actually the most remarkable puzzle ever written. Part of the proof of its divine inspiration is prophecy. (Isaiah 46:9,10)
The 11th and 12th chapters of Daniel actually foretold the rising of Xerxes, Alexander the Great, the Ptolemy and Seleucid empires, the outcome of the wars they fought and foretells details about the future rulers of that era until the end of time.
In case you can't tell, a person must be diligent in their study of world history to understand.
In the near future the ruler of Egypt will attack Iraq or possibly Iran. The king of the south is Egypt (the remnant of Ptolemy's empire). The king of the north is the Seleucid empire, traditionally known as Babylon. That land mass was Iraq and probably included much of Iran, as well.
The Seleucid empire will win, and that leader will be identified as "the beast." Many people refer to him as the "anti-christ." However, that term is not accurate. Anti-christ is actually the spiritual force behind the beast.
My best guess is somewhere between 2017 and 2021. Those calculations are based on a variety of sources, and observations of current world political events. After this war, the ruler of the northern empire will go to Jerusalem and erect an image of himself in the New Temple that is about to be built on the Temple Mount. This act is the time he will declare himself to be God, and the Great Tribulation will begin.
If you are not ready, good luck.
This Nergal character, of whom I know nothing, has the right to do anything he wants. But, he is choosing ignorance. That is foolish.
You know thatin the bible they say that in Mesopotamia they worship sin. Still doesnt make it true, or real for that matter. (for that matter "Naram-Sin, the mesopotamian moon good was the one refered and misled by the bible).
Still, a piece of fiction written by several people, then debated which parts to keep and which one to leave out on several councils arround 500 years after the "facts" that was then re edited and modified countles times through ages can hardly be a holy book.
What i want to say is that ignorant or not, everyone can voice their opinion, and everyone can burn, shed, defecate, urinate, or eat on a bible. It doesnt hurt anybody not even in the slightless way.
Furthermore, you are in a concert with those guys and you werent expecting something like this??
da.benson8r wrote:
True statement. I'm a Christian myself, and a strong one at that, but I still believe organized religion is bullshit, pretty much an excuse to kill and steal money. It's probably the most corrupt thing on the planet next to government, which is pretty pathetic if you ask me.
This is even worse than organized religion.
"I BELIEVE IN GAWD BUT I DON'T GO TO CHURCH~" You're still as stupid as the rest of them for believing it out-dated beliefs.
"Place your right hand on the bible. Do you swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?"
"Well this is kind of ironic"
lmao
1000 points!
Too bad they don't mean anything.
That's right, just like free speech in Poland, the points don't mean a thing.
Hahaha! Awesome to see I'm not the only Whose Liner on UG!
Not a Christian, but I do find it offensive (but not enough to sue someone).
Why? because by destroying something sacred to many good people in the world, you prove nothing. Only will get you a couple of "hell yea!" from the crowd.
Kids in UG will disagree, but Christianity along with many other religions has saved many people from path of wrongdoings. Whether those ideologies are wrong or right, is for individuals to figure out. Pointing the middle finger hasn't helped anyone and never will.
IMO, trying to understand our existence is very important. Its also very important to shut the **** up about these things.
This is stupid. Poland's had these laws for many years along with others like you can't drink beer or any alcohol or you get fined. You can't jay walk either. If you know something's the law and you do it then expect to have problems. Smoking weed's illegal and some people claim it should be legal but you'd still get in shit for smoking it.
I live in Poland and the vast majority of the elderly are strongly Catholic. My girlfriend's Catholic and so are her parents and I've never had any problems from them for not being a Catholic or a Christian. I don't disrespect their beliefs so they don't disrespect mine.
I find this tastless in terms of lack of respect. Being verbal about something is fine but if you don't like your neighbour that doesn't mean you should set his car on fire.
People say that someone person in history killed this amount of people or some religion killed this amount of people. I swear no one actually gives a shit if they did they would care about abortions. Each year around 46 million abortions are performed. You can't say they aren't alive or shit because everyone has been a faetus or however it's spelt.
Not to be one of those people that are like OMG ABORTION IS BAD DUN DO EET etc.
That's just my rant.
And on topic, it doesn't really matter that he ripped the Bible up.
Abortion seems more like euthanasia to me really, the fetus is alive but it is not conscious, it doesn't give a shit if it dies and it will never be sad about it.
Anyway.. Ripping the bible in public can take you to court? Really? The christian believers who actually care about this should just remember that some objects they think are sacred, is not so to everyone else.. Even if a friend of mine keeps reading Harry Potter for enlightement it's still just a book to me.
Wow that's lame.
It's just a book...
A story book where almost nothing can be proven to be true, and laws and commands that involve death as punishment if you don't follow them.
I don't mide them tearing it up at all.
Religion does not cause wars. Ignorance and greed does that.
This man is stupid. If he's against the Bible, fine. He's entitled to not agree with any religion, but leave it there. He does not have to publicly rip a bible to shreds to prove his point.
It's not exactly a huge protest anyway and probably just wanted a gimmick so his band would get some mainstream publicity as their music doesn't warrant that alone. He's succeeded in that regard, but he's made himself look a prat.
not a behemoth fan but i must admit that this case is a joke. no one got hurt and no damage was done except to ONE bible. i'm catholic and was raised to adhere to the bible (though i don't agree with everything it states) however i DO beleive in freedom of speech. so long as no one is physically hurt and there are no property damages then i personally don't see a problem with what nergal did.
I'm a Christian and even I don't care if he did that. I don't think even Christ would have wanted him to go on trial for that. He was against taking people to court.
I'm a Christian and even I don't care if he did that. I don't think even Christ would have wanted him to go on trial for that. He was against taking people to court.
Don't judge lest you be judged or something like that. It isn't as literal as you put it but it's close enough.
Except you are forgetting one big BIG truth: Christ isn't the man/god/prophet he was/is/is supposed to have been. Christ is what the people who claim to follow him make him to be. It's unfortunate, but that's why the catholic church is the absolute humongous farce it is. Behemoth, as crappy as they are, are calling them out on that. That's a good thing in my book. They go to court because of that because Poland is a rural third world country of deeply religious people that work the land all day and go to church on sunday by chariot.
Although, maybe they're not like that, but that's what they're made out to be by these clowns.
Religion does not cause wars. Ignorance and greed does that.
This man is stupid. If he's against the Bible, fine. He's entitled to not agree with any religion, but leave it there. He does not have to publicly rip a bible to shreds to prove his point.
It's not exactly a huge protest anyway and probably just wanted a gimmick so his band would get some mainstream publicity as their music doesn't warrant that alone. He's succeeded in that regard, but he's made himself look a prat.
I don't think anyone is questioning how much of a prat he is XD
The thing is, he didn't insult christianism, he insulted the chatolic church, who is, for all means and purposes, a sect of the christian religion. It's something very different. Someone who publicly disses satanism (which is a religion, not a sect) is way more of a prat (particularly if you consider that there's a 99,9% chance he won't have a clue about what satanism is). Lol.
Nobodys considering the fact that this happened during a live show. He did to get the audience fired up. And besides, has anyone ever been to a GWAR show?! Not too many people agree what they do either.
i love how they say he promoting Satanism when in a way we all do. Satanism isnt worshiping Satan, its about self enlightenment and worshiping yourself. These people are the reason why i have never gone to church and never will
I had no idea you could be charged for this, let alone taken to court!?! This is the dumbest ****ing thing I've ever heard. I don't even like Behemoth but I hope the dude gets out okay.
Well, this didn't happen in the United States. Here, they can't legally charge you with anything. But keep in mind, this happened over in Poland. They may have different laws regarding the freedom of speech than what we in the United States are used to.
They have laws against blasphemy. Poland is not considered a secular state like the US or Canada. Nergal's ex, Doda, was charges for the same thing a while back.
I'm pretty sure Mao Xedung or Stalin killed more people than the Catholic church ever did.
Lets try to apply this logic to the Presidents of the USA:
Almost every (?) President was Cristian, so all People that died in every war the USA ever fought died because of Christianity.
Pegadeth: A pretty impressive number? Actually not really when you apply this logic to the dictators and rulers who were agnostic or atheist: Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Khan, Tojo, Castro... It doesn't matter. These groups didn't kill to further their beliefs in religion or non-religion. They did it to enhance their own power over other people.
FYI. The bible isn't being changed all the times, nor has it been changed by leaders throughout history. We actually have much of the original Greek and Hebrew that it was written in. The different interpretations are based on opinion of religious and non-religious as to what the words mean. Three words. Dead Sea Scrolls.
What a bunch of bullshit. Anyone going to a Behemoth show better expect just that kinda of thing to happen, unless their a complete retard. Shouldn't matter if people are offended or not. I think it's offensive when Christians today molest children, and abuse them with indoctrination. Religion is like a penis. It's nice to have, but please don't try to shove it down people's throat. Religion can be equally offensive it's self, and it is. It's offensive to the human race to see that some of these morons actually believe what the bible says when it does not offer LOGIC or CREDIBILITY when those two tend be credible for a thing called proof.
Religion does not cause wars. Ignorance and greed does that.
This man is stupid. If he's against the Bible, fine. He's entitled to not agree with any religion, but leave it there. He does not have to publicly rip a bible to shreds to prove his point.
It's not exactly a huge protest anyway and probably just wanted a gimmick so his band would get some mainstream publicity as their music doesn't warrant that alone. He's succeeded in that regard, but he's made himself look a prat.
It's just a book and one man expressing his beliefs. Who gives a shit. I guess it's the same thing when a priest molests a child. But apparently that's not as bad for some reason. =/
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Behemoth has some nice albums 
"Well this is kind of ironic"