Venom Vs. Metallica

Blasting-Zone.com recently conducted and in-depth interview with legendary Venom frontman Cronos. Several excerpts are as follows:

Blasting-Zone.com: How do you respond to the controversy surrounding the decision to name the album "Metal Black"? It would seem some people feel the title is simply a rip off of the "Black Metal" name?

Cronos: It's our name to rip off (laughs). At the end of the day, it's ours to do with what we want. I heard people say 'Fuckin' hell! Could you have thought of a better title?' There are fourteen songs on the album, ya know? We could have called the album 'A Good Day To Die'. We could have called the album 'Burn In Hell'. Of course we could have thought of a different fuckin' title. There's a reason why it's called 'Metal Black'. It's because it's in the style of 'Black Metal'. It's Venom returning back to our roots after twenty five years. People will always say there is no Venom like the 'Black Metal' Venom. But we could never do that same thing again. We've moved on as musicians and studio technology has changed? We can't make a muddy album, an album that sounds like crap. If people want that, they should take 'Metal Black', put it on the stereo, turn off all the treble, put all the bass on full and put their headphones in a bucket of water (laughs). Then it will sound like crap. Do they like it better like that? I think some people make comments about things without thinkin' about what they're sayin'. Nobody wants a crap-sounding album.

At this point in your career, what are your feelings on Satanism? Do you feel your beliefs have benefited your career?

I live my life kinda how people would imagine the Devil living his life. I make my own rules and choose to do with my life what I please. I don't follow no fuckin' church dogma about 'believe this, say that?jump when I say jump.' The whole point of Satanism is to have your own head. We've taken that through every aspect of our career. You need to be so fuckin' headstrong because people are gonna tell you, 'Oh, you're doin' it wrong. you gotta do it like this.' Everybody thinks they've got great ideas. Fuck them. The whole point of being a Satanist is not running a round attacking people and being an idiot. That's where the Norwegian guys got it all wrong. Burning churches has nothing to do with Satanism, really. One of the laws is responsibility to the responsible. That's so easy to understand. Walk down the street and bother nobody. If somebody stands in your way, tell them to move. If they don't move, destroy them. How easy it that to understand? People don't even believe in God anymore. The churches are being used as community centers for children who come from poor backgrounds. It's as if there's something wrong with you if you believe in God, ya know? The whole Satanic image is perfect for heavy metal. This is the Devil's music. I don't like all of these lame bands that call themselves metal like Saxon and Samson. Shoving stuff down your pants and putting lipstick on.

What is your overall opinion of the current state of the black metal genre?

Well, it's certainly gone in some weird directions. For me, I think the whole genre should have gotten a new tag anyway. I'm very humbled that Venom has gotten credited with being the influence behind it all. I really think a lot of these guys invented something of their own. For years, people have talked about how Venom has started this and Venom had started that. We don't necessarily look at it like that. We look at is as if we were more of a catalyst. It was going to happen anyway, we just came along and kicked it in first. We just kicked the door down and everybody ran it after that. Every scene has its peaks and its troughs. I don't think the scene has gone completely, I just think it's waning a bit. It's going to be up to the bands that are involved with it to either make something of it or roll over because shit happens and nothing last forever. Every extreme scene kinda loses its impact after a while. As soon as you show people how the magic trick works, it's no longer magic, is it? That's kinda how the death and black metal scenes are goin' at the minute. These bands haven't come up with anything new. It's just the same old, same old.

What are your current touring plans?

Quite a lot, actually. We've always believed that people didn't want see Venom if we didn't have the show. It just seems that so many people's opinions have changed because there are some many places where Venom has never been. Not all of our fans can travel a thousand fuckin' miles to come see us. It just seems so odd that after twenty five years, there a just so many places that we've never even been. It's time for us to open our ears and take in a little bit of what's going on around us. We've got a lot of festival dates lined up and of course we're gonna do all the pyro and the whole shebang, but I think we should also try to do some of these other concerts as well, just to see how it goes. Some kid who can barely afford the price of the ticket can't come a long way to come see us. We're gonna try to get the best of both worlds when it comes to playin' live. One of the things that has been getting' talked about is a tour of the States with Venom, Slayer and Exodus. How cool would that be? When people start talkin' about things like that, things they haven't seen in forever, we're just like, 'Get Slayer on the phone so we can set it up?'

I think that tour would do very, very well?

I do believe so. We could even see if Metallica wanted to open for us. Actually, we couldn't do that because they're crap (laughs). I think they need to take the word 'metal' out of the name.

Find the entire interview at Blasting-Zone.com.

Comments

[desimate]

well hes fairly upfront about hi views on metallica aint he.

A venom, slayer and exodus tour would be very kool

[mustiebalzak]

go satan guy!

[CKJLtallica]

Metallica Will Rule All...BLAH

-Dr€w

[Mistress_Ibanez]

well i don't think metallica are crap

[prsfloyd]

Who the hell is venom and why are they even mentioned in the same breath as Metallica

[Rune Playaz]

prsfloyd wrote:

Who the hell is venom and why are they even mentioned in the same breath as Metallica

amen

[roumen]

satanism is for idiots, if you wanna "shock" people and be anti-church just be an atheist, just say you dont believe in stuff like that
but its so immature to think if you take the opposite side it would be cool
people should refresh their memories and think about what Satan stands for, its not a stupid demon, its a CONCEPT, of everything wrong

im no believer i just think any kind of religion is something of the past

and btw, what he described as satanism shouldnt be even called that, as i said, the concept totally doesnt match what he's saying

[benjaminr]

this is just one of those things where someone is jealous of someone else being way better than them.

[King ofKumbucha]

Too bad Metallica is God or he would've come off sounding clever rather than a piece of shit (like Venom's music imo).

[shenanigans]

Too bad noone has heard or really even cares about Venom. I also have heard they are horrible at thier instruments, and a band that saw them play once couldnt watch them because they couldnt even play thier songs. You also should never talk bad about other bands in public interviews like this, especially one that is 99% more than you are.

[shenanigans]

*more succesful

[xxadamnxx]

this was a very misleading title for the article..

[masterofmuppets]

Excellent review

[satanisgod666]

venom! yeah! hoorgghh! all for black metal! anyway.. i think what he was referring to was not satanism at all. it's agnosticism or could be atheism. but what he said about being like that was indeed right. i say, agnostic rock n roll for that! haha!

[satanisgod666]

just as my id says.. it actually means neither of the two exist.. of course i dont believe in god.. i cant believe in satan too.

[bloke]

and btw, what he described as satanism shouldnt be even called that, as i said, the concept totally doesnt match what he's saying

actually i used to be quite into satanism, well i was into reading out about different religions etc. and what he said was nearer to what being satanic is really about.. people glorify it for being a red devil or against christianity, there are lots of cliched kids out there that think thats what its about, but from what i've read in the past he has quite a good general attitude to it, it is what it is you know, thats why satanism can be slightly appealing, you take from it what you want... its not a live by my law or **** off kindof thing..

[MetalPunch]

Metallica hasn't always been a big main stream band. I have been a die hard Metallica fan since Mustaine was still with them. And for anyone in a crap ass band like Venom to even make a referemce to Metallica is plain out just pointless. I know both those bands, and in a choice of concerts I am positive that anyone would rather go to see Metallica. Except for maybe gothic and satan worshiping anti-flag little inmature 12 year olds.

[i_am_iron_man09]

dude, who is venom? and are they really any good? i'm a metallica fan, and it's nothing against venom, but maybe once they've contributed as much to metal as metallica has, then they can make a semi-relevant claim such as this.

[wallyyfm]

na, he bashed them

[i_am_iron_man09]

i was trying not to exagerate (sp)

[Kirk Hammett55]

Metal is satans' music?! WHAT THE FUCK!? Just because you believe in God doesn't mean there aren't times in your life where you don't want to slit your wrists wide open, or beat the shit out of somebody, or get some aggression out, OR bang your head like a mad man. Which is what "Metal" is all about, last time I checked! \m/ Kickin' ass for Jesus!

[CannibalBirth]

To people who don't know Venom they not only created black metal, but thrash metal as well. They have influenced a lot of bands like Slayer, Megadeth, Anthrax, and even Metallica themselves. Metallica's biggest influence on Kill em All was basically Venom. Must be kind of weird having one of your influences calling you crap.

[Covin]

*agrees* There is some good Christian rock out there.

[Kirk Hammett55]

\/ Peace

[RHCP_FAN88]

roumen :
satanism is for idiots, if you wanna "shock" people and be anti-church just be an atheist, just say you dont believe in stuff like that
but its so immature to think if you take the opposite side it would be cool
people should refresh their memories and think about what Satan stands for, its not a stupid demon, its a CONCEPT, of everything wrong

im no believer i just think any kind of religion is something of the past

and btw, what he described as satanism shouldnt be even called that, as i said, the concept totally doesnt match what he's saying


buddy... that IS what Satanism is... I've read the Satanic Bible... not because I am, but because after I got into Metal I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. Satanism isn't about killing people and shit, the main principle is to fuel your ego and do what makes you feel good as long as it doesn't stop someone else from feeling good...

[i_am_iron_man09]

[quote]CannibalBirth wrote:

To people who don't know Venom they not only created black metal, but thrash metal as well. They have influenced a lot of bands like Slayer, Megadeth, Anthrax, and even Metallica themselves. Metallica's biggest influence on Kill em All was basically Venom. Must be kind of weird having one of your influences calling you crap.


especially when everybody knows that metallica isn't crap

[patduganz]

Did you know that Venom also influenced the end of communism, the election of the new Pope, the cancellation of the TV show 'Home Improvement' and many other wonderous things?

They tuned to c#, they didn't do much more than make their guitars sound like ass.

[Portuguese_boy]

Fuck those satanic *******s, they dont even deserve to say metallica. Fuck those ****heads anti-christ. God is up there, and hes gonna kik your satanic ass

[Daffodil Lament]

Cronos said 'A Good Day To Die'
The name of the song is actually 'A Fine Day To Die'
Just thought I'd point that out, I thought it was amusing.

[RockDragon]

Venom suck ass, as do all black/death/thrash/whatever the **** you wanna call it metal bands, but i gotta agree, metallica do suck ass. James Hetfield is the worse singer ever, kick him out, bring back Mustaine and you got yaselves a band.

[I-AM-NOT-GOD]

venom completly own metallica, their like david's baby son and goliaths harder brother there that much better the shitallica

[roumen]

to RHCP_FAN88:

what i meant to say is, the term 'satanism' is poorly chosen, if you look at the concept of satan by itself, how can you compare it to
"do what makes you feel good as long as it doesn't stop someone else from feeling good"

they shouldve chosen a different name, cause to me, it just seems they chose Satan cause of the shockvalue
--> people who feel insignificant and try to stand out by shocking, thus rejecting the accepted norms and values

[psykopoo]

Venom are absolutely dire shit, i mean, if his opinion as a person is that metallica are shit enough, but here its Venom vs Metallica, and theres no competition at all Metallica kick their ass. And as for that slayer exodus and venom tour, take venom off and im there.

[ALKoHoLiK]

I-AM-NOT-GOD wrote:

venom completly own metallica, their like david's baby son and goliaths harder brother there that much better the shitallica

Right.. and how so? Musically talented? Not even ****ing close..
Also who the **** is Venom? Been around 25 years, and I haven't even heard of those dumb****s.. I had a ton of friends that enjoyed Black Metal, and that name hasn't popped up once.. Venom at best is a mediocre band with mediocre talents trying to spread there name (just like everyone other ****ing newbie band) by bashing an amazing band.. wether it be Metallica, Black Sabbath, or Ozzy..

Venom needs to do what they do best, keep their mouths closed and continue to stay in the shadow of other bands that don't need to bash other bands to have their band in the bright lights for 5 mins

Sad..

[Portuguese_boy]

venom completly own metallica, their like david's baby son and goliaths harder brother there that much better the shitallica

HA HA HA HA all i can do is laught at you, how the **** is a shity band like Venom better then Metallica, dude they suck, james hetfield can kik their ass with his cool metal voice, kirk will own them with his solos, ulrich will put his drumsticks in their ass, and robert will make them eat their mom's shit with his bass lines

[PantsOnFire]

roumen :
to RHCP_FAN88:

what i meant to say is, the term 'satanism' is poorly chosen, if you look at the concept of satan by itself, how can you compare it to
"do what makes you feel good as long as it doesn't stop someone else from feeling good"

they shouldve chosen a different name, cause to me, it just seems they chose Satan cause of the shockvalue
--> people who feel insignificant and try to stand out by shocking, thus rejecting the accepted norms and values

the belief that they should do what feels good is the opposite of what christians believe, which is doing what God says is good. thats why they call themselves satanists, they are the opposite of christians.

[SoundInTime]

Metallica in their thrash days were untouchable,
now they suck satan's cock. Venom should be more respectful to a band that put out some of the greatest metal albums of all-time. (Even though they should take metal out of their name) NuMetallica

[nothingface187]

Portuguese_boy wrote:

Fuck those satanic *****s, they dont even deserve to say metallica. Fuck those ****heads anti-christ. God is up there, and hes gonna kik your satanic ass

dude you really need to open your mind, and watch the History Channel and the The Discovery Channel once and while, there you'll will learn about Satan, God and Jesus. So quit being so ****en close mind.

[wabusy33]

i agree with the guy, metallica isn't worthy enough of opening for venom.

[Grimme]

Big headed ****s, they may have "created" Black/Death metal, but they certainly don't own the genre.

[homerjaysimpson]

satan is boring

[i_am_iron_man09]

i don't see why music has to be about conflicting religions at all, really.

[Kaziglu Bey]

Metallica ****in suck!

They haven't been relevant in 15 years. They certainly aren't metal anymore, Cronos is right.


Venom/Slayer/Exodus tour would be like a ****in nuclear holocaust!!! Bring that tour on!!!

[thewiserafiki]

Venom is simply unlistenable to me, and i don't think they should be talking crap about metallica. But in their defense, no one can blame them for ripping off metallica with the album name because metallica copied "This is Spinal Tap"

[Scazzaman3000]

why exactly did he start dissin them in the first place?

[SoundInTime]

He needs publicity for the new album

[SumGreenNOFX182]

xxadamnxx wrote:

this was a very misleading title for the article..

Agreed.

[pitbull510]

Why could'nt he just be cool and all the Metal-Stars just get along and go on a wicked-ass tour and come to California? Even though some of Metallica's stuff is crap.

[pitbull510]

BTW, UG is exagerrating the whole venom vs. metallica, it's like their just trying to start a feud.(goddamn!)

[davidlp888]

"If someone doesn't get out of your way; destroy them!" HAHA! Maybe they are blocking his path to tell him that over-the-hill, middle-aged, balding Geordies who call themselves names such as 'Cronos' and wear dodgy skin tight leather with studs and try to throw criticism at bands who are FAR better than them should stay indoors to begin with. If Cronos goes around destroying too many people then sooner or later he wont have anyone to trick into buying his new album by starting fights with Metallica.

[mustiebalzak]

prsfloyd wrote:

Who the hell is venom and why are they even mentioned in the same breath as Metallica

Venom have been around longer than metallica.

[The Unforgiven]

SoundInTime wrote:

He needs publicity for the new album

Agreed.

[the_clairvoyant]

WHO IS VENOM?
saying metallica sucks is like saying u dont like metal.

[Crowleyson]

good to see metal still has some balls. i think its sweet that he called metallica out. they haven't made a good album in almost 16 years.

[Justice-For-All]

Venom suck my ass, LOL I didn't even know this joke of a band was still playing.

[SlashRules]

the_clairvoyant wrote:

WHO IS VENOM?
saying metallica sucks is like saying u dont like metal.

correction: saying OLD metallica sucks is like saying you don't like metal

new stuff: def. NOT metal

[colm c]

if you dont know who venom are you shouldnt be callin yourself a fan of metal!

[edibledevilboy]

Venom is ok. Nothing atall legendary, and certainly nothing compared to metallica - and i'm not a even a metallica fan really. Black Metal is in the dumps right now cos there's nothing in it, and never was. And this guy's got a HUGE ego for someone who's band has been entirely forgotten by any fans they once had.

AND if Venom researched into their own religion, they would know that Satan wants to torture them as well as anyone else for all eternity, they'd know if they actually wanted to know something of the topic, but instead it's all talk so they look as if they have balls

[Daredevil4714]

I'll bet Venom masturbates to MOP.

But seriously, he needs to shut the hell up.

misanthropy

spam deleted, no flaming members.

[roumen]

PantsOnFire wrote:

the belief that they should do what feels good is the opposite of what christians believe, which is doing what God says is good. thats why they call themselves satanists, they are the opposite of christians.

in fact its the same: it says "do what makes you feel good as long as it doesn't stop someone else from feeling good" --> this means you shouldn't just do whatever you feel, you should consider other people first, then do what you like
just like in christianity

all ideologies and religions contradict themselves, this aint no exception

[JonnyBhoy]

Idiots..who the hell are Venom and why are they calling Metallica crap?

[roumen]

btw, davidlp888, well said! made me laugh cos its true

RHCP_FAN88

spam deleted, no flaming members.

[geetarguy92]

wtf ar we talking about satanists on a guitar forum for???? and also who are vemon never heard of the guys n ther singer should pull his head out his ass n stop alkin so much ****

Portuguese_boy wrote:
so shut the **** up

*WARNING. stop spamming up the article.

SoundInTime

deleted. no flaming members.

[Grimme]

Because metal music is the music of the devil...
Lets be honest here, who has actually HEARD [listened to] Venom NOT heard of them, do any of us actually have a fair opionion on this matter.
I point you all to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venom_%28band%29,
seems like they did quite a lot, this part is especially interesting,
"Mayhem, Slayer, Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax, Testament, Hellhammer, Morbid Angel and even Slipknot cite Venom as a major influence."

[wingedgopher]

this guys a ****ing tool

[lykeorbzorkor]

in christianity, you've got a shepherd and you got a bunch of sheep. in satanism, everyone is a shepherd. that's really there is to it.

[KeptFresh]

This is a nice debate, but if anyone would like to state that Venom was a major influence on Metallica and Black Sabbath (laughing out loud)should do thier homework, since Venom's debut album "Black Metal" (1982) was was about 10 months shy of the release of Kill em' All (Metallica's debut). They also toured together in support of both thier debut albums.
The point being, if Venom was nearly as talented or musically inclined as Metallica, we would be speaking of Venom independently rather then in association with Metallica.

[phoenix_88]

sorry to post twice
but Grimme is right.

you can definately hear where some of Kill Em All came from in their music and a lot of Megadeth, especially in some of the vocal lines.

phoenix_88 wrote:

i don't know them either, don't go in Hot Topic, and don't listen to the radio

YAY STERE0OTYPING.
anyways.
never really listened to venom, from what i can tell, not crazy about them. But they shouldn't be bashing bands like that really.
whoopdeedoo
St. Anger was out of the norm. OH MY GOD. THEY CAN'T EXPERIMENT IN OTHER GENRES OHHH NO.

get over yourselves, get over Metallica, and enjoy the music.

It's Venom returning back to our roots after twenty five years. People will always say there is no Venom like the 'Black Metal' Venom.

to be honest..
listening to a lot of their recordings from the past

i don't see them slightly straying from their roots.

title is misleading.

post edited.

[cap'nkirk]

prsfloyd wrote:

Who the hell is venom and why are they even mentioned in the same breath as Metallica

You're kidding right? Venom is a pretty important band in the history of metal. I'm not down with the satanism thing, but Venom is one of the hardest bands to ever walk the planet. I don't know what he's deal toward Metallica is though, whatever. Cronos worked with Dave Grohl on Probot and I don't see how Dave is more metal than Metallica. Eeh, whatever... Venom's reign passed 20 years ago, mainly because of bands like Metallica, Megadeth and Slayer... actually that's probably the problem.

[cap'nkirk]

colm c wrote:

if you dont know who venom are you shouldnt be callin yourself a fan of metal!

amen brotha...

[glass_heart_LG]

I have not heard venoms muisic (tho i have heard of them), so im not guna dis them. However i feel that u cant just call metallica crap they have been a big influence to so many bands. And no guitarist can call metallica crap (listen to the one solo and ull know what i mean).

[dimebag7]

yeah **** them, metallica would tool them. THEY SHOULD BE THE FIRST SHOW OUTTA 6 OTHER BANDS

METAL BLACK
SOME BAND
BAND
I KNOW THEM BAND
THIS BAND IS GOOD
FUCKING RIGHGHT METALLICA!

[Y-y-yeah]

goddamn this dude says crap in the article a lot, takes crap to know crap, just kidding

[undead_bunny]

Bwhahaha, I love Cronos.

[Metallica708]

maybe he shouldn't have ripped off metallica then

Metallica - Black Album
Venom - Metal Black

See where i'm coming from?

[s0Lid $nAkE]

he shud say that they're crap to their face
james is gonna beat the holy shit out of him lol

[a real DEAD one]

Im a huge metalhead Ive NEVER heard of venom. i know all sorts of music ans bands and otehr artists but Ive never heard of them. That usually means that if they did something important it benefited shitty music.

[MetalPunch]

To put it simply, Venom sucks. Their music is crappy and annoying. Where as Metallica, even though, most people including myself didn't like the last couple of albums, they still have alot more talent than some shit little band like Venom. You can tell, even in their newer music, that the music and lyrical talent is still there. But for a band like Metallica, once you make an album like their first three, it is kind of hard to maintain the fire. I have seen Metallica live, not too long ago, and while I agree, their new music isn't all that great, they can still ****in keep up with their old shit, proving that if they could just get their shit together, they could have another Master of Puppets caliber album. To put this even more simple, as sucky as everyone claims Metallica has gotten, you ****ers still buy the albums and still listen. making Metallica alot more popular and more talented than the shit little band Venom.

[ToolBass_dude]

So a snide comment almost as an afterthought gains this post the title of "Venom vs. Metallica"?

Come On...

Although the thing about Satanistic beliefs was cool reading.

[ToolBass_dude]

Metallica708 wrote:

maybe he shouldn't have ripped off metallica then

Metallica - Black Album
Venom - Metal Black

See where i'm coming from?

remember that "The Black Album" wasn't the official name though- it was actually titled "Metallica", so not really ripping it off, seeing as they are black metal an' all...

[MetalPunch]

FUCKING AMEN! Kurtallica Metallica to the ****in end!

[?! the 2nd]

omg, just because venom hasnt sold millions of records or isnt on the radio doesent make them bad. im a big metallica fan but if any band can bash them venom can. like someone said before, kill'em all is influenced by venom. they are mostly responsible for all the extreme metal bands today.

[.:KrAmJaN:.]

Both Venom and Metallica are great bands IMO. But i don't think Venom should be bashing metallica after all they are thrying new things just like Venom.

[mick1681]

LOL Metallica opening for Venom? Thats a laugh. Maybe they could tour together though....Venom can get the drinks for Metallica :...you dont call Metallica crap...show some respect

[Rocker_16]

Yea i neva even heard of venom till this little thing so i cant really comment, but metallica rulez

[saucehead]

I like how all you dumbshits who know nothing about Venom or have never heard of them instantly pass judgement and say Metallica is better. I'm sure a number of you have never heard of Diamond Head, Saxon, or Sweet Savage either. These bands influenced Metallica and because they never sold millions of albums doesn't mean they are shit.

[rush4life]

I like both of them, but I just LOVE the blind Metallica defending in this thing. "I've never heard of Venom, so Metallica is WAY better!" Some people need to grow up and actually try to learn something about a band before they bash it.

[69.so.fine]

What a stuck-up *******.

[metalhead089]

i can believe how many ****ing people dont know about venom you cant say metallica its better than venom if you dont know them because on the cliff em all dvd they claim venom as a big influence. ignorant muther****ers whatever i like both bands

[Alucard II]

meant to say this above, but this could well be a case of sarcasm not coming across in an interview. if not...well, free speech.

[AcrosstheTracks]

Only UG would take the last small paragraph of an interview and create a provoking title for the whole article out of it. But I'm sure more people have looked at it as opposed to if it was "Interview with Cronos from Venom", if not only to defend their beloved Metallica. Sneaky journalism.

[Jimothy]

He's right about the Satanist thing, I was on the site a few months ago and one of the like '9 commandments' was "You must not harm little children". HAIL SATAN!!!

[ooblah]

Satanism is a desperate attempt to be different and unique when in reality its just a bunch of bullshit.

[Jimothy]

And another thing. If this next Metallica album is as bad as the last one, I'm just gonna lose faith completely.

[Jimothy]

Satanism is a desperate attempt to be different and unique when in reality its just a bunch of bullshit.

Yeah, I mean you can have your own head and still not label yourself a Satanist.

[joshjhasarrived]

1. Who the hell are Venom?
2. WTF! This article has NOTHING to do with Metallica!
3. Metallica is the greatest metal band ever.
4. OK what that guy is talking about is NOT Satanism, it's atheism!
5. If you're a "Satainst", I kinda feel bad for you.
6. HOW DARE YOU INSULT METALLICA?!
7. Ok I think thats about it...

[ollerom_mot]

Wow, I don't know many bands that would bash Saxon and Metallica in the same interview.
Ha, I don't really know Venom so I can't say anything about them, but I'm a fan of Saxon and "lica" so I guess maybe I wouldn't like them...
I like Exodus and Slayer too, though...

[MetallicAhead]

ive never heard of 'em but if he loves satan and dis respects possibly one of the greatist metal bands of all time then they must be realy cool * sarcasam*

[Voxel Mitosis]

Why do people say Metallica is one of the greatest metal bands ever? Because they were the most popular?

[thefinalcut]

Wait, wait, wait! Hold on and one minute here, one f*ckin' minute! On any other Metallica article, everyone on UG bashes them to bloody 'ell...I love how everyone suddenly did a 180 and jumps the bandwagon, and are Metallica's biggest fans.

Ever hears of the expression "bit the bullet"?

[Dirtydeeds468]

Ok. This is ****ing retarded. How many of us are actually bothering to talk about THE ARTICLE?!!

Fuck man, If I wanted to hear a bunch of guys arguing about Metallica, I'd go...outside.

Must I spell it out here?

Some people like Venom.
Some people like Metallica.

Everyone is different! Hooray for Non-Conformatism!

[Sixpounder]

What the **** i thought this was gonna be about Metallica, not fukin some gay band whos only pissed because they havent sold a quarter of the albums Metallica has sold. Metallica kicks any bands ass, new or old.

[coverpage]

Okay let me just say this some guy said that Venom created thrash metal, well they may have but they sounded like trash. Metallica took what they heard, which wasnt much, and made it their own. VENOM is not even in the same league as metallica, in terms of musicianship, band organization, and live performances. For venom to call Metallica crap, is like Jessica SImpson calling Albert Einstein an idiot. VENOM should just keep thier mouth's shut about Metallica. CAN YOU TELL I LIKE METALLICA?!

[HellrzngPinhead]

Is it my imagination or did he mention Samson? THIS ISNT FUCKING 1982 YOU ASSHOLE AND ACT YOUR FUCKING AGE YOU WERE LIKE 50 BACK THEN WHEN I WAS IN DIAPERS.

[nirvana4lf]

metallica kinda sucks now, but he shouldnt be going and dissing metallica, its just retarded and assholish

*spam deleted

[genresrforposer]

ummm.... is it 1983/marylin manson's mid 90s teen rebellion era again or am i the only 1 who thought the satanist fad ended a looooong time ago?

[WeirdMariachi]

Wait, wait, wait! Hold on and one minute here, one f*ckin' minute! On any other Metallica article, everyone on UG bashes them to bloody 'ell...I love how everyone suddenly did a 180 and jumps the bandwagon, and are Metallica's biggest fans.

Ever hears of the expression "bit the bullet"?

This guy took the words right out of my mouth, how funny that these are the same people making fun or Lars when he got pissed on, and now the same "fans" are defending metallica by saying they are the greatest band ???

Its obvious you guys are still in middle school.

[virtuosox86]

all good things must come to an end and thats how it for metallica but theyre the best metal band evr they sell a million albums a year venoms albums combined havent evn sold the amount black or and justice for all did

[Moldedwurm]

Cronos is a FOOL!!! He said that "The whole point of being a Satanist is not running a round attacking people and being an idiot." Then he's attacking Metallica with such an insult.. Fuck Cronos!!! Fuck Venom!!! Metallica Rules!!!

[Sliverjay]

who the hell are venom?????/

[genresrforposer]

WeirdMariachi wrote:

Wait, wait, wait! Hold on and one minute here, one f*ckin' minute! On any other Metallica article, everyone on UG bashes them to bloody 'ell...I love how everyone suddenly did a 180 and jumps the bandwagon, and are Metallica's biggest fans.

Ever hears of the expression "bit the bullet"?


This guy took the words right out of my mouth, how funny that these are the same people making fun or Lars when he got pissed on, and now the same "fans" are defending metallica by saying they are the greatest band ???

Its obvious you guys are still in middle school.

i hate lars. i love metallica's music. actually i don't have to explain myself since ive never bashed tallica's music but tha ppl who bash lars but praise tallica arent hypocrites since lars' personality n metallica's music r seperate issues.

n while i agree that there is much more support for tallica than there usually is on here, it probably has sumthing to do w/ tha fact theyre being compared to a lesser known band that isn't megadeth so it's much easier to take their side.

ps

while ive never heard venom's music i never heard that black metal influenced metallica. ive heard new wave of british metal n hardcore punk rock. ive never even heard the terms black metal or venom mentioned in a metallica biography, article, website etc.

bands that were mentioned: misfits, slayer, anthrax, motorhead, deep purple(lars' fave band)

n metallica have always noted motorhead as 1 of their biggest influences so i dought venom had that much impact

[Cliff_Hetfield]

I never heard of these Jackasses until three days ago. On this site! Anyways I wouldn't be talkin' about who's crap and who's not, specially when you're talkin' about one of the most successful bands.

[Powerhouse]

Black metal sucks.

[ReignInBlood666]

metallica used the guitar riff from venoms buried alive for one, so venom can say whatever the hell they want about craptallica

[hooligan354]

Y'know what's funny about this? The fact that Cronos(?) has to open his trap and verbally sling mud at the metallikats instead of letting the music speak...
oh, right....because the music doesn't speak
Damage Inc. forever!!!

[Sanitarium24]

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge Metallica fan, but most of you don't know just how influential Venom is with metal music, even on Metallica.

[a real DEAD one]

saucehead wrote:

I like how all you dumbshits who know nothing about Venom or have never heard of them instantly pass judgement and say Metallica is better. I'm sure a number of you have never heard of Diamond Head, Saxon, or Sweet Savage either. These bands influenced Metallica and because they never sold millions of albums doesn't mean they are shit.

your name is saucehead, you dont know what your talking about.

[xgrindcorex]

Metallica is terrible, get it through your thick, ignorant skulls. Talentwise, they are overrated. They make generic uninspired music that sounds terrible. Every member of the band is a comple jerk-off. And last, but not least, they are nowhere near being one of the best thrash metal bands, let alone alone one of the best metal bands. For christs sake, everything after kill em' all was barely thrash.

[oshkoshshred311]

Dudes honestly now.....Sabbath pioneered metal....Metallica reinvented and perfected it....no matter what they do now...it doesn't change what they have done.....tell cronos it takes a lot more than just his satanic anger and mediocre riffs to make good metal. Oh and by the way I'm catholic and I can tell ya straight up that God created the devil....so he sure as hell could kick his ass...how's that for metal.....cronos is the poser....not metallica.

[ddvdga]

Ok, im not the biggest venom fan, but I definatly know who they are. Anyone who says they suck is a retard, besides inventing black metal, they influenced so many other bands. As other people have said you can hear their influence in kill 'em all. And maybe the reason they never sold as many albums as Metallica is because they didnt sell out like money hungry *******s. Seriously, if you have never heard of Venom, you have no right to call yourself a metal head. Stop listening to slipknot and learn some real metal

[hooligan354]

another note....what has Venom done for metal - I don't know about you kats but the revolution started in the early '80's with Slayer, Metallica, Megadeth and to a lesser extent Testament.

That my friends, was the door opening to the world of metal.

[a real DEAD one]

oshkoshshred311 wrote:

Dudes honestly now.....Sabbath pioneered metal....Metallica reinvented and perfected it....no matter what they do now...it doesn't change what they have done.....tell cronos it takes a lot more than just his satanic anger and mediocre riffs to make good metal. Oh and by the way I'm catholic and I can tell ya straight up that God created the devil....so he sure as hell could kick his ass...how's that for metal.....cronos is the poser....not metallica.

you are the man

[adyingwish]

lay down your souls to the gods rock n rooo-ooo-ooolll arrrgh arghhhhh

[hooligan354]

Bullseye!!oshkosh

It's nice to see some people haven't forgot history

[a real DEAD one]

I just downloaded a few of their songs to make sure i wasnt being hypocritical and then I realized I wasnt. The riffs are poorly constructed, The vocals have no passion in then at all, and they lyrics suck cock. After listing to the first minute I wanted to cut my dick off and cauterize the wound with my moms iron. Nothing done by that band could possibly be influential to anyone but Nirvana or anotehr 3 riff shit band.

[Dotpunker89]

Venom can rot in hell they had lost all my rspect bastards.

[satanswing]

ummm....lemme think....metallica pretty much kicks any bands ass whether you ****in like it or not

[LeoKhenir]

I think there should be appointed an 18+ age limit for being a UG member. 14 year old kiddies who never have heard of Venom have, simply put, NOTHING to say in this debate. Venom created an entire genre by releasing "Black Metal" back in the days (guess what genre they created...) Anyways - It would have been Metallica taht had to open for Venom, not the other way around, because Venom have been around longer and made a lot more influence on the metal music than Metallica.

And let's get something straight on the satanism issue. There are two different kinds of views here, as I see.

The common one (and erroneus, I might add): Satanism is worshipping of the Devil, and Satanists want hell on Earth, with endless pain for all.

The correct one: Satanism is a religion that does the opposite of Christianity (Hence the name, since Satan is God's opponent). In Satanism, you are not told by some priests what you should do - instead, you are told to do what YOU want, as long as others are not hurt.

[newpurgatory]

wow, to consider metallica crap is pretty arrogant. even if you are better then them, nobody gives a flying **** if ur gonna brag about it. lots of ppl are better than metallica but not everyone brags they are. i hate ppl who brag about shit. guess what? this cronos fag isnt the best in the world, therefore he has no right to brag like hes all big shit. god, why doesnt he just suck satans dick he loves him so damn much. metallica rules all!

[hooligan354]

Dude, you're crazy. Yeah, venom may have influenced some 25 years ago but metallica continue to influence the "14 year old kiddies" as you so eloquently put it. And it's the "14 year old kiddie's" tha have grown up to kick our asses today BECAUSE of that influence. Wake up, Dude. Shadows fall, lamb of god, trivium, etc...

[oshkoshshred311]

Okay black metal wtf? Dude metal is metal...let me say it again BLACK SABBATH! they are the only band which can be created with inventing anything...and even that could be considered a stretch....metal is based off of rock...which is based off blues...which has roots in early jazz and ragtime....all the way back to classical..and so on. Oh and by the way the only reason why any of you think metallica sold out or hate lars is probably cause of the whole napster thing. Which doesn't make sense because someone stole metallica's music. That right, stole it. Then they're called posers on top of it because they try and expand musically. I'm sure Alex Skolnick... (legendary metal player from testament) who is considered now to be one of the most widely recognized jazz players is a poser too, because he's not playing metal anymore. It's just growth...not selling out. Some people find different music and some don't. Anyone who says different might want to start ditching they're I'm angry at my father syndrome.

[hooligan354]

Oshkosh - preach it, baby. Nice - pulling out Skolnick's evolution. Game, set and match.

[cleadus_134]

That was a very misleading title. Im a pretty big fan of Metallica, but ive never listened to Venom, so im not gonna get into an argument of whos better and such.

[genresrforposer]

LeoKhenir wrote:

I think there should be appointed an 18+ age limit for being a UG member. 14 year old kiddies who never have heard of Venom have, simply put, NOTHING to say in this debate. Venom created an entire genre by releasing "Black Metal" back in the days (guess what genre they created...) Anyways - It would have been Metallica taht had to open for Venom, not the other way around, because Venom have been around longer and made a lot more influence on the metal music than Metallica.

And let's get something straight on the satanism issue. There are two different kinds of views here, as I see.

The common one (and erroneus, I might add): Satanism is worshipping of the Devil, and Satanists want hell on Earth, with endless pain for all.

The correct one: Satanism is a religion that does the opposite of Christianity (Hence the name, since Satan is God's opponent). In Satanism, you are not told by some priests what you should do - instead, you are told to do what YOU want, as long as others are not hurt.

Look, Satan wants all humans to be destroyed as he believes God neglected angels wen he created them. it's in tha REAL bible.

And labeling yourself a satanist wen Agnostics hold the same ideals w/o the retarted "I hate God" crap?

Only two things can this ever b called:

A fake opinion for the purposes of shock value.

or

Just plain idiocy as the religion's title includes the name of someone who clearly isn't on your side.

[newpurgatory]

okay everyone knows metallica has sold out, ill be the first to admit it. but to call them crap. wow. i listened to some vemon and they aint got nothing on metallica. there solos were more boring then being at church and the singing ****ing got on my nerves fast. hello? dave mustaine? the kill em all album and some ride the lightning was his works and if your calling his shit bad then go **** yourself right now (whiplash, call of ktulu, ride the lightning). as for kirk, hes just as good, think sanitarium, puppets, blackened. metallica will bend venom over and skull **** them when it comes to talent. venoms just mad cuz there just sucks.

[oshkoshshred311]

I don't need to get nervous pal....I know where I stand. You've obviously found "something" in Venom's music...so hey that's yours....but anyone who doesn't consider Black Sabbath(which not one of you has insulted since my first comments...weird...seems to be no debate over that band) and metallica to be huge influences on metal really needs to seriously re-evaluate what they are saying.

*spam deleted.
maybe i should explain. u can comment on the article.
u can not call out another member, and call them a dic.
get it?

[newpurgatory]

and as for satanic ppl, no one cares your a satinist! your not impressing ppl. you say the point of being a satinist is doing whatever you want right? well i do the same damn thing but do i consider myself a satanist? no! cuz im not so hung up on labels, they think that just by calling themselves satinists, the'yr automatically metal, no your not, your just stupid.

[randy_roads]

What an idiot? If Metallica should take metal out of their name, Venom should never use the term Black Metal... And i dont care if they were the first ones to use it.

[hooligan354]

How the hell are we supposed to get nervous when we have metallica as amunition? Like it was said - you get yours from venom - the rest of us get it from Metallica. Nervous is a virgin on her wedding night.
We can sit and debate over who's better. ( Oh, yeah, my dad can beat up your dad) In the end, you go to the club that venom plays and I'll be at the stadium or arena that metallica plays headbanging my way to a headache.

[a real DEAD one]

This is a never ending argument....

When I listened to Venom for the first time I didnt feel musically fufilled, thier music didnt want me to pick of my guitar and play. AND THAT IS WHAT MAKES A BAND INFLUENTIAL!!!!! IF THEY MAKE YOU WANT TO PICK UP YOUR INSTRUMENT (or sit down and grab your drum sticks) AND PLAY THIER SONGS!!!!! thats how you can tell a band is good, and can influence future generations into continuing music

[SaLvAdOrOcK]

Ok, Ok, lets get some shit straight. First of all From whose ****ing full of crap head came the bloddy idea that venom is the first thrash band? come on they remotley influenced thrash, the first thrash bands were Overkill, Metal Church and Metallica.
All the people who defends blindly metallica, hear some venom, and the people who say bad stuff about metallica just because they are famous, get over it, yes they sell a lot but that doesn't means they are crap.
And at last i think that nevertheless they are the major influence in black metal they are not even close of being as influential ass metallica, not only in metal but on any kind of music. You don't belive me? there are thousands of countries where almost no band has been influenced by Venom but all of them have been by metallica, many important history books contain something about metallica, still today no Venom in any history book, all rock history books say something bout Metallica and just a few about venom. Metallica holds major records in many countries, here in mexico Black album is the best selling rock album, i haven't heard of venom having any record anywhere
So thats it they are both excelent bands but Venom is a thousand light years away from being as influential and legendary as metallica.

[hooligan354]

Is it your wedding night?

[oshkoshshred311]

Lol

[newpurgatory]

sweet

[hooligan354]

tell that to their millions of fans

[newpurgatory]

not trying to be a dick, but what bands do you listen to?

[srt4]

who the **** is venom?

[newpurgatory]

ive only heard of megadeath and dream theatre. but you cant possibly think metallica is crap. their first guitarist is now the guitarist for megadeath, dave mustaine. you gotta like them a little. im suprised to see no children of bodom, theye're a kick ass metal band too.

[thefinalcut]

Dirtydeeds468 wrote:
Must I spell it out here?
Some people like Venom.
Some people like Metallica.
Everyone is different!

1+ to this guy and WeirdMariachi

If you disagree with Cronos and/or don't like his band, ignore what he said.

[Kaziglu Bey]

Saying Metallica rules is like saying Slipknot are a good band. Fuck Metallica and hail ****ing Venom!!!!!

[JS30RR]

Fuck that. Saxon rules.

xgrindcorex wrote:

hooligan354 wrote:

Is it your wedding night?

metallica sucks.

xgrindcorex wrote:
I'm not even a semi-big venom fan, assclowns. I'm not defending them in anyway.

xgrindcorex wrote:
Me?

Spam.Spam.Spam. Warning.

[Vantage]

Metallica>Venom/Megadeth....Period

[Mad-Croc]

King ofKumbucha wrote:

Too bad Metallica is God or he would've come off sounding clever rather than a piece of shit (like Venom's music imo).

It's spelled "emo". Venom is no where near emo.

Metallica is great, but so is venom. They don't need any comments, they both influenced bands. i.e. Venom-mayhem, Metallica- many bands(including me). Baiscally what im getting at is

Dirtydeeds468 wrote:


Some people like Venom.
Some people like Metallica.

Everyone is different!

[toxgoboom]

Being a loyal Metallica fan for many years, this headline piqued my interest. I've heard of Venom before, but never heard their music. With an open mind I launched Napster to have a quick run-through of their most popular music.... which all turned out to be total effing shit. Hey, whatever gets you black/death/shit metal fans off, but Metallica is at least capable of writing music. Plus the dude can't sing. Hell, he can't even pass as a screamer. I've heard better sounding music come from Fran Dresher's hellspawn mouth than from this poser. Bottom line: Fvck Venom, Metallica is the shit.

xgrindcorex wrote:

See what I mean?

spam. deleted.

[genresrforposer]

mad-croc, imo is internet speak for in my opinion, he wasnt calling them emo.

altho no matter wat genre they r all i kno is venom's music is bloody boring.

[xgrindcorex]

genresrforposer wrote:

mad-croc, imo is internet speak for in my opinion, he wasnt calling them emo.

altho no matter wat genre they r all i kno is venom's music is bloody boring.

black/thrash metal

[genresrforposer]

xgrindcorex wrote:

genresrforposer wrote:

mad-croc, imo is internet speak for in my opinion, he wasnt calling them emo.

altho no matter wat genre they r all i kno is venom's music is bloody boring.
black/thrash metal

actually i already knew that i was saying i dont care wat genre they r.

[crzywhiteboy]

Metallica VS Venom
Ok think we all know where there is more talent,and even whos name is known more.

[J Lock]

Where do they mention Metallica?

I couldn't find it.
Is it in the actual article online?

[xgrindcorex]

crzywhiteboy wrote:

Metallica VS Venom
Ok think we all know where there is more talent,and even whos name is known more.

Whose name is known more, makes a band good or bad?
Backstreet Boys must've been incredible then.

[heartwarmingpie]

I find this hilarious, because if it wasn't for Metallica listing Venom as an influence on Kill Em' All, I wouldn't have listened/liked Venom. Venom is cool, but Metallica owns them.

[HavokStrife]

James Hetfield would kick this guy's ass...

[jimicrakcrn]

We could even see if Metallica wanted to open for us. Actually, we couldn't do that because they're crap (laughs). I think they need to take the word 'metal' out of the name.

I've never even heard of Venom until now...so I went and found some of their music...I honestly dont know what I was hearing...its complete and utter crap. So how did they have such a big influence on metal...if nobody seems to be citing them as influencial? As for Metallica...no they havent sold out!! So they stopped making metal for 15 year olds that hate everyone?SO WHAT? They started making metal that yes...wasnt as musicaly genious...but was still metal. You cannot deny Metallica's rightful place as the best metal band ever. They're old!!! what do you want? your an idiot to keep expecting stuff from the Puppets era. because there minds arent in that place anymore...its hard to hate everything when you have as much success as metallica has. i mean life doenst suck when your in metallica. And you phsyically and mentaly cant write that kind of music when your content with life. Yes blame Bob Rock for making st.anger a crappy album...but blame the psychiatrist for making them work out their problems!!! So please stop bashing metallica...I'm tired of all of the 'sellouts!!' and the 'metallica isnt metal!!!' its bullshit. so take it up the tailpipe.

[Dotpunker89]

Metallica is really a great band. Venom is just jealous because they didnt have the success MetallicA a band who was influenced byu venom back in the early days had. Bu t MetallicA had always had theyr unique style so Venom cans STFU. And I don ttalking shit here because I have listened to venom and bands like burzum,carcass,etc.. who were pioneers on death metal.

[dez_cole]

i like venom more and metallica was influenced by venom you can totally hear it in kill em all ride the lighting. Venom invented black metal and i would go to see venom over metallica any day hands down

[dez_cole]

metallica wasent even really good on puppets the best was the first two. i think they began sucking because there punk influence died(cliff) so they stoped the great thrash styal

xgrindcorex wrote:
I was going to call you an asshat or something like that, but this will just get deleted for spam anyways.

Flaming a member. Banned.

[ace5ja]

King ofKumbucha wrote:

Too bad Metallica is God or he would've come off sounding clever rather than a piece of shit (like Venom's music imo).


It's spelled "emo". Venom is no where near emo.

it was worth reading through the whole thread just for that comment

[societies_worm]

so what the **** metallica isnt metal anymore but then again metal isnt metal anymore. i mean is my favorite band, they first 5 albums kicked ****ing ass not all metal but they were brilliant, then the loads came out and what not i still liked them, the change was good for me. venom? never heard of them, so i cant say much about them, but at least show some ****ing respect for metallica man, possibly one of the greatest bands, in the 80's. they inspired me alot. what the hell, black metal, ohh i want to worship satan go against the system become henry VIII only not makiing a new church making a new genre black metal, yeah black metal, anything metal sucks but metal alone is good. metallica was great noe there ok, but they could still kick anyones ass out there...

[rattlehead999]

just because venom was one of metallicas influences doesnt mean that theyre better than metallica. metallicas pre black album material rips off venoms head and shits down its neck. and whoever sed that master of puppets isnt good is a f***ing idiot

[Voxel Mitosis]

metallicas old stuff is average thrash. nothing more.

[metallica6285]

I just think its kinda funny that Venom is one of Lars' influences, lol.

[Brayds]

What a cocky ******* how can he say that Metallica should open for him?
Metallica is definately not the heaviest band around but you cannot say they are crap.

[Brayds]

Hey you know what sucks is that the topic of this interview was not about how much he hated Metallica,
it was completely different to that and now they've started this whole Metallica and st. anger sucks bullshit again.

[The UG Squirrel]

the_clairvoyant wrote:

WHO IS VENOM?
saying metallica sucks is like saying u dont like metal.

No, its saying that you don't like Metallica, dumbarse.


Anyway, the title for this article is ****ed. All you achieve by having 'vs' in the title and mentioning Metallica is:
A) Lots of arguments
B) Lots of stupid n00bs

Anyway its good that Venom have improved technically since "Black Metal". I'll see what the album sounds like.

[oshkoshshred311]

I just have to say that to the guys who said metallica is just average thrash...Wow that's a pretty bold statement. Metallica although may have been influenced in some way by venom...is the band that opposite only motorhead before them pretty much came up with the ideals to play louder and faster than anyone else. Oh and for the record...in 1986 when puppets was released...there was no one...and I mean no one even in the same building as far as musical genious and versatility in the thrash genre.

[beau05]

ive never heard any of Venom's stuff. from venom fans, what would be 3 must-have albums?

he must have a right to say metallica is crap, seeing as though venom influenced metallica in some way. i dunno, i suppose everyone has their own opinions

[Lycanthropos]

HAHAHAHAHAhahahaOHHHAHAHA
HAHAOOOOOWEEEEEhahahaha

These comments have to be the funniest in the history of metal!!!!!

I had to register just to tell you all!

There are so many GRAND errors through this only 2 days old comment board I will attempt to show you fools the light (dark) and give you youngsters and outright idiots some tips (and facts).

Fact #1: Venom did nothing to invent black metal except for two things, one was coin the term (in a song with a lyric greater than any Metallica have ever wrote, LAY DOWN YOUR SOULS TO THE GODS ROCK AND ROLL). See fact 2 for the other thing they did for Black Metal. Note that they did not play black metal. Ever.

Fact #2: They invented thrash metal.(thrash metal of course gave birth to both death and black metal) Welcome to Hell was the first thrash album and it influenced every thrash band you know and every band you know of any worth (and even worthless garbage like Metallica). To sing Metallica's praises in 1986 and condemn Venom's indelible efforts and everlasting contributions, which if they did not happen when they did Metallica's debut would have been years delayed or they would have played an altogether different style I might add, is pure ****ing ignorance.

Fact #3: If you have been listening to metal for more than 10 years and openly admit to not having heard Venom's music you are a disgrace and shouldn't talk about metal, especially in a manner where you might think anybody should listen to you. You should talk about metal to learn if this is you. Ask questions, find out what is important in metal, learn a little history, because you don't have the first clue as it stands right now. Take it upon yourself to learn and rectify your metal offenses. If you have both not heard Venom's music and not even heard OF Venom and have been listening to metal for 10 years or more simply stop calling yourself a metal fan.

Fact #4: Venom is a great band. I know this is a guitar place (been playing for 15 years myself), so I know how you hold musicianship so dear. But it's a funny joke reading everyone who "just listened to them to comment." And a damn shame that you all miss what they deliver. No there is no technical aspect whatsoever. But there is that intangible that makes a musician great, or a band great nonetheless. Take another listen and remember nothing sounded like that then. (Motorhead maybe but compare the two you will see Venom takes it to another level) Look at all of thrash boom of the 80's (where Metallica = a metiocre act only I might add). Look what Venom gave birth too. Then consider this, it was very difficult for any band to match Venom at the time live in aggression and getting the adrenaline up in the crowds that lived for this kind of music. Venom aren't legends for their musical complexity. They are legends for playing so goddamn hard. There is no polished part anywhere, so don't go into a Venom listen with such expectations. They aren't gonna sound a thing like Metallica.

Fact #5: As anyone can see from these comments under the interview, Metallica's "contribution" is also a major hinderance. Some people think it's so great that they made accessable thrash that more of the majority could appreciate, and get their foot in the door of metal. But that kind of fanboy marking undermines the actual thrash genre. Metallica weren't bigger than thrash and there were many greats acts within the style. If you are going to talk about thrash because you know of Metallica, please don't and learn about thrash first. Talk about Metallica all you want but save your breath when sentences include the word "thrash."

Thank you for your time.

[toolazytofindan]

Hello there, Lycan. I couldn't resist the temptation to join too and try my artillery against this unbelievable display of ignorance. Alright, armed... Here we go:

Slayer, Possessed, Exodus, Kreator, Bathory, Sodom, Destruction, Metallica, Hirax, Heathen, Forbidden, Vio-lence, Anthrax, Bathory, Death Angel, Dark Angel, Testament, Hellhammer, Living Death, Celtic Frost. What do these bands (and many others) have in common?

That's right - they are directly influenced and absolutely WORSHIP or worshipped (in the 80s) Venom. Both literally and musically.

Does anyone of you have the slightest idea how delayed Thrash Metal's evolution would be if it weren't for Venom? Anyone? The SLIGHTEST idea?
In 1981, Venom released the first album that would be later universally admitted to have been the first Thrash Metal album of all time. That's "Welcome To Hell" for those of you keeping notes.

Metallica's Hetfield and I quote: "We would all go to the hills and blast Venom and tank and we'd be a happy family". Obviously, Venom was not only liked by these Thrashers, it was worshipped. Tom G. Warrior would fly all the way to England just to see Venom perform.

Listen to the opening riff of Warhead. What does it remind you off? That's right, "For Whom The Bell Tolls". Warhead has over 3 years on "For WHom The Bell Tolls". Remember - "For Whom The Bell Tolls" only came along in 1984. The Venom track dates back to 1981 if not earlier. I think it's from earlier demos, but I'll stick with 1981 just to be sure. It's an influence if not a direct rip off. Listen to the way
"The smell of death was near
It's presence ever near"
is sung in Venom's "One Thousand Days In Sodom". It's so similar to "Phantom Lord". And that's just Metallica songs I'm mentioning. I could mention similarities with other bands like the lyrical themes of Possessed, but it would take ages. Can you even comprehend how huge an influence Venom was in 80s Thrash now?

They have influenced MORE band than Metallica's Thrash has influenced. Times a hundred. There was NOTHING more extreme and out-there than Venom back in 1980. I isten to Witching Hour and I hear the birth of Thrash. I listen to Master Of Puppets and I hear it's COMMERCIALISATION. "Welcome To Hell" kids.

Besides Kill Em All, what did Metallica do to help Thrash progress and make it a more viable genre? Metallica was never a progressive force. The only member who has the ability to compose music that was ahead of its time was thrown out! And that was Dave Mustaine. Metallica just offered straight-out Bay Area Thrash in the beggining like so many others and was overtaken after the mid eighties by the Thrash scene itself.

Bands like HELLHAMMER were ahead of their time for 1983, pioneering a sound so awkwardly close to the first wave of Black Metal. Bands like POSSESSED were pioneering what you know today as Death Metal. Watchtower was pioneering tech-thrash. Motorhead was Pioneering Speed metal. Slayer was incorporating Black Metal song structures in albums like Hell Awaits. Sodom and Bathory can claim to have made authentic 100% Black Metal albums before the mid eigthies. What exactly was Metallica pioneering except from selling out?

It's Metallica ho isn't worth mentioning in the same breath with Venom, because popularity in the 90s and 00s put aside, they will never live up to Venom's legend and influence in the scene. A scene that they (Metallica) have betrayed time and time again I might add, by claiming that nobody needs the old schoolers now that they've made it big.

disclaimer: All my statements were aiming at educating and not offending. But if you have been offended, good.

WITCHING HOOOOUUUUURRRRR!!!!!

[sheppo]

Venom are awsome but to say "take metal out of their nae" well cronos go and get ****ed

[Lycanthropos]

They changed from metal to hard rock loooong ago. Having a band name Metallica and playing Hard Rock are quite contradictory no?

[toolazytofindan]

Why not? they have betrayed the Metal scene over and over again. Actually, Metallica OFFICIALLY aknowledges metal to be DEAD and they call themselves a ROCK band. They, themselves have dissociated their band from the metal scene. The statements were done around the time "Load" was released, but I doubt the majority here is old enough to recall something like that.

[KeptFresh]

There are so many GRAND errors through this only 2 days old comment board I will attempt to show you fools the light (dark) and give you youngsters and outright idiots some tips (and facts).

Fact #1: Venom did nothing to invent black metal except for two things, one was coin the term (in a song with a lyric greater than any Metallica have ever wrote, LAY DOWN YOUR SOULS TO THE GODS ROCK AND ROLL). See fact 2 for the other thing they did for Black Metal. Note that they did not play black metal. Ever.

Fact #2: They invented thrash metal.(thrash metal of course gave birth to both death and black metal) Welcome to Hell was the first thrash album and it influenced every thrash band you know and every band you know of any worth (and even worthless garbage like Metallica). To sing Metallica's praises in 1986 and condemn Venom's indelible efforts and everlasting contributions, which if they did not happen when they did Metallica's debut would have been years delayed or they would have played an altogether different style I might add, is pure ****ing ignorance.

Fact #3: If you have been listening to metal for more than 10 years and openly admit to not having heard Venom's music you are a disgrace and shouldn't talk about metal, especially in a manner where you might think anybody should listen to you. You should talk about metal to learn if this is you. Ask questions, find out what is important in metal, learn a little history, because you don't have the first clue as it stands right now. Take it upon yourself to learn and rectify your metal offenses. If you have both not heard Venom's music and not even heard OF Venom and have been listening to metal for 10 years or more simply stop calling yourself a metal fan.

Fact #4: Venom is a great band. I know this is a guitar place (been playing for 15 years myself), so I know how you hold musicianship so dear. But it's a funny joke reading everyone who "just listened to them to comment." And a damn shame that you all miss what they deliver. No there is no technical aspect whatsoever. But there is that intangible that makes a musician great, or a band great nonetheless. Take another listen and remember nothing sounded like that then. (Motorhead maybe but compare the two you will see Venom takes it to another level) Look at all of thrash boom of the 80's (where Metallica = a metiocre act only I might add). Look what Venom gave birth too. Then consider this, it was very difficult for any band to match Venom at the time live in aggression and getting the adrenaline up in the crowds that lived for this kind of music. Venom aren't legends for their musical complexity. They are legends for playing so goddamn hard. There is no polished part anywhere, so don't go into a Venom listen with such expectations. They aren't gonna sound a thing like Metallica.

Fact #5: As anyone can see from these comments under the interview, Metallica's "contribution" is also a major hinderance. Some people think it's so great that they made accessable thrash that more of the majority could appreciate, and get their foot in the door of metal. But that kind of fanboy marking undermines the actual thrash genre. Metallica weren't bigger than thrash and there were many greats acts within the style. If you are going to talk about thrash because you know of Metallica, please don't and learn about thrash first. Talk about Metallica all you want but save your breath when sentences include the word "thrash."

It was nice to read something that seemed to display some type of fact. I was half right. Opinion isn't fact. Most of your statements reflected your thoughts on each band therefore taking any credible possibility of "fact". Do I enjoy a band more then the other? Yes. I love Metallica. Why? Because I think a true, honest band should never be labeled into a certain genre. Metal is one genre that the members have enjoyed, and are proficiant at playing. But to limit yourself is creative death. That's great Venom are still doing what they do. I hope I'm still doing the exact same thing 25 years from now.....

[Lycanthropos]

Fact 3 was advice, but all the rest stand. Speaking of facts you had the year wrong for Venom's first release, it was 1981. Still right about Kill Em All though so 10 months is also off. However if you look at what happened after Venom came about, it very well could have been 10 months because of the intensity with whcih it grabbed those it grabbed, and how quickly everything started growing in those early years. It caught on real fast and grew to have a great hey day.

I do not understand what makes Metallica any more true and honest than any other band in your eyes. I find them uninspiring from Black on. But even more questionable is why a true and honest band can't be labelled into a certain genre. ?? Metallica for instance was thrash for 4 albums, and hard rock until St. Anger which was nu-metal. A band doesn't choose to switch or stay in a genre because a single genre is limited creatively. Have a look at all the genres. There's plenty to do in each. But selling out may limit a band by expecting them to produce a certain sound and paying them to do so. COUGHmetallicaCOUGH

PS You lost me on the bit about my credibility.

*spam deleted*

[newpurgatory]

Venom sucks, bottom line. metallica is way better. besides, labeling yourself a certain kind of metal is just retarded. metal is metal, be it screaming or regular singing, regardless what the lyrics or the riffs are. saying that your death metal is just retarded. your simply just metal. BODOM RULES BITCHES!

[newpurgatory]

all though i will admit metallica sold out from black album on out, there presence still remains from the early years.

[toolazytofindan]

newpurgatory wrote:

Venom sucks, bottom line. metallica is way better. besides, labeling yourself a certain kind of metal is just retarded. metal is metal, be it screaming or regular singing, regardless what the lyrics or the riffs are. saying that your death metal is just retarded. your simply just metal. BODOM RULES BITCHES!

That's like saying "well, why categorise apples and oranges as apples and oranges respectively, since thay are all fruit?"
IT MAKES SENSE to categorise because apples and oranges have differences that need to be aknowledged collectively. You can't reccomend Gamma Ray to a Darkthrone band because these two bands sound nothing alike.
Thanks to Judas Priest, Metal is the most diversified genre in the history of music. Power metal and Black Metal sound NOTHING alike, so it makes sense to categorise them as different subgenres.
People who do not want to categorise are those who DO NOT comprehend how this categorisation is done, mainly because they lack experience in the scene. Understanding who and what came from where is key to learning and understanding the history of metal and the contributions of each band. Motorhead pioneered Speed Metal, Bathory pioneered Black Metal. Had we not had split metal into these subgenres we wouldn't be able to properly appreciate Bathory's branching into the unknown, to create Black Metal. It's a sound that's different from Heavy Metal, and if we called everything Heavy Metal it would make it harder for people to appreciate bands for their contributions to the scene of Metal as a whole. Why can't people just understand this?
On top of all other things, it's also convenient. If you are listening to Forbidden and you want anotherthrash band, I could reccomend Vio-lence and you'd have something similar to the band you initially liked and we'd all be happy. Really, I don't see why this is so hard to comprehend.
And I really despise people who say "bottom line: band X is better than Y because I said so and that's it." On what grounds Mr? In terms of instrumentation and musicianship? Fine then, but this means that the more technical a band is, the better it is, which would make bands like Atheist, Cynic, Necrophagist, Pavor, Spiral Architect, later Death and Psycroptic 100 times better than Metallica because they are more technical. You are being subjective and absolute at the same time, which is saying something about your age and your ability to participate in a constructive debate.
Either back up your opinion with SOLID facts like I did in my first post, or stop arguing alltogether,because you are not contributing anything essential anyway. Just a mere unsupported, heavily biased and uneducated opinion and nobody is interested in something like that.

[toolazytofindan]

KeptFresh wrote:
It was nice to read something that seemed to display some type of fact. I was half right. Opinion isn't fact. Most of your statements reflected your thoughts on each band therefore taking any credible possibility of "fact". Do I enjoy a band more then the other? Yes. I love Metallica. Why? Because I think a true, honest band should never be labeled into a certain genre. Metal is one genre that the members have enjoyed, and are proficiant at playing. But to limit yourself is creative death. That's great Venom are still doing what they do. I hope I'm still doing the exact same thing 25 years from now.....

And Metallica fits the description of a true and honest band? The band that produced some of the most counter-productive LPs in the history of Metal and spat in he face of the scene that made them what they are are true and honest? If they are so true and honest why isn't there any credit given to Exodus for Trapped Under... IMPALER?
Oh, you didn't know that? Well, learn it now. Impaler was supposed to make Bonded By Blood but apparently it made it on Ride The Lightning first, and Hammet's to blame for that. When he came over from Exodus, he didn't only bring his axe you know. And if you have any doubts, Impaler is on the 2004 Exodus release "Tempo of the Damned". I's the closing track if my memory serves me correctly. If you know your thrash you'll probably recognise that the song was written in the 80s right away. Although it did undergo modification before release. Same with the main riff of Creeping Death. It has Tom Hunting written all over it. I could go on to point out Warhead, and Set The Stage Alight, but I think the point is made.
Ulrich himself said they didn't need the Old Schoolers now that they made it big. They have no consideration for the crowd that stood by them when they were still performing in the underground back in the early 80s. They have forsaken the scene taht made them what they are, and they claim that in their eyes, it's dead. How can you say this when Exodus releases tempo Of the Damned and Destruction releases "The Antichrist?"
When even deathThrash crawls on with "Impact" and the Old School is revitilised with "Sterilise and Exterminate" and "Thrash Assault"? When bands can still be Thrash and fun after 2001, with releases like "M-16"? And when sleeping giants are awaken with releases such as "Schizo Deluxe"?
The scene hasn't died yet. It's still clutching on to whatever the Old Schoolers have to give it and it's managing to support itself on all the Old School bands that refuse to go down, like pillars supporting a roof that symbolises the edge and vibe that this proud scene once had.

[oshkoshshred311]

Let me clarify one last time. People keep arguing that it's this metal or that metal. You are either metal or your not...there is no in between. The question is who stands out? Who seperated themselves? The answer is Metallica! They musically outdid any other thrash band. Why? Because they didn't do it for the "thrash" label. Music is music and they wanted to make it the best they could. When it comes down to it...really listen to an album like puppets...the dynamics....the lyrics....the musicianship...it's pure friggin' genious. Metal is not about distortion, and speed. It's about note selection and dynamics...only the object is to create that heavy feeling which so many people kill for. For instance. You think Venom is so brutal. Take a musical genious like bach or beethoven...those guys wrote some of the heaviest music of all time...long before any of these guys were even on the map. So please don't talk about influences. Everyone influences someone or gets it from somebody. It comes down to who can stand out. Musically in the thrash genre...or whatever label you people decide you want to put on it this week while jumping on another bandwagon, There is no band who even comes close to the level of epic music that metallica produced at that period. And as for Venom....yes they influenced bands like everyother band they were influenced by someone too. It's just they never seperated themselves...and of course they won't sell out or whatever...they play the same damn song 100 different ways. Same shit different pile. Instead of exploring the possibility that maybe there's a way to improve it. Then metallica is a sellout for trying something new...knowing that puppets can and never will be topped. Venom's the friggin sellouts...they're not even curageous enough to improve the genre and take it somewhere else. enough said.

[metalupyour_ass]

KeptFresh wrote:

This is a nice debate, but if anyone would like to state that Venom was a major influence on Metallica and Black Sabbath (laughing out loud)should do thier homework, since Venom's debut album "Black Metal" (1982) was was about 10 months shy of the release of Kill em' All (Metallica's debut). They also toured together in support of both thier debut albums.
The point being, if Venom was nearly as talented or musically inclined as Metallica, we would be speaking of Venom independently rather then in association with Metallica.

****ing right man!
and hemmm one guy said: James is the worst singer out there, bring back mustaine...
shit! mustaine is an old twat. he can't sing.

[toolazytofindan]

oshkoshshred311 wrote:

Let me clarify one last time. People keep arguing that it's this metal or that metal. You are either metal or your not...there is no in between. The question is who stands out? Who seperated themselves? The answer is Metallica! They musically outdid any other thrash band. Why? Because they didn't do it for the "thrash" label. Music is music and they wanted to make it the best they could. When it comes down to it...really listen to an album like puppets...the dynamics....the lyrics....the musicianship...it's pure friggin' genious. Metal is not about distortion, and speed. It's about note selection and dynamics...only the object is to create that heavy feeling which so many people kill for. For instance. You think Venom is so brutal. Take a musical genious like bach or beethoven...those guys wrote some of the heaviest music of all time...long before any of these guys were even on the map. So please don't talk about influences. Everyone influences someone or gets it from somebody. It comes down to who can stand out. Musically in the thrash genre...or whatever label you people decide you want to put on it this week while jumping on another bandwagon, There is no band who even comes close to the level of epic music that metallica produced at that period. And as for Venom....yes they influenced bands like everyother band they were influenced by someone too. It's just they never seperated themselves...and of course they won't sell out or whatever...they play the same damn song 100 different ways. Same shit different pile. Instead of exploring the possibility that maybe there's a way to improve it. Then metallica is a sellout for trying something new...knowing that puppets can and never will be topped. Venom's the friggin sellouts...they're not even curageous enough to improve the genre and take it somewhere else. enough said.

Metallica separated themselves from the massess and revolutionised Metal? Oh PLEASE, PLEASE don't make me laugh.

And the dynamics? Proper dynamics were so TOTALLY invented by 1986, thank you very much. If Sabotage didn't have them, then Sad Wings Of destiny certainly did. Master Of Puppets is sheer genious for 1986? No I'll tell you what's sheer genious for 1986:

Darkness Descends is sheer genious for 1986. THIS CITY IS GUILTY, THE CRIME IS LIFE, THE SENTENCE IS DEATH, DARKNESS DESCENDS!!!! Playing 53 riffs in a song and playing at 286 BPM is what's ahead of its time for 1986.

Let me hint you into something. Using crybaby acoustic interludes and Hetfield crying "Let me beeeee" is not what Thrash Metal is all about. It's about sheer ugliness, brutality and the bare essense of the riffs. It's not a pretty genre by any stretch of the imagination.

Pleasure To Kill is another album that stood from the crowd in 1986. Influencing tons of bands laters oh and.. AWAIT DETAH BY THE BLADE. RUN BEFORE ITS TOO LATE. AWAIT THE AXE IN YOUR BACK, AS THE RIPPING CORPSE ATTAAACKKSSSS

This is what true thrash is all about. Not about being unable to "kill the battery".

OBSESSED BY CRUELTY is sinister and dark and pretty ****ing-out-there in 1986. PRETENDERS TO THE THRONE!!!

MORBID VISIONS separates itself from the crowd
POWER FROM HELL...
BEYOND THE GATES...
REIGN In -****ing- BLOOD...


Nuclear Assualt makes me break things each time I hear their GAME OVER.

All of these in 1986. So much superior and absolutely more fun and Thrash and progressive than Master Of Puppets.

And who can forget PEACE SELLS?

INFERNAL OVERKILL, NIGHTMARE THEATRE, MALICIOUS INTENT, ZOMBIE ATTACK, STAY UGLY...

All these thrash albums.... Al these tharsh gems.. and you think Master Of Puppets is the staple of 1986 thrash? You induce my gag reflex. And you HAVE NOT HEARD enough Thrash. Not nearly enough. Only a total begginer to the genre would make such an absurd and ridiculous claim. How many of the albums I've listed have you heard? How many of these 1986 gems? I bet you haven't been listening to Thrash for more than 3 years. Hell, even ****ing Voivod had an interesting Thrash release in 1986.

You also do not know your 80s. If you think Master Of Puppets exemplifies proper dynamics.

Master Of Puppets cannot be topped? Are you EIGHT? Or Seven? It was topped before it was made. In 1985 for instance. With Morbid Tales and Bonded By Blood. It was rendered totally obsolete by 1986 with all the competition that smashed it to the ground. (See Pleasure To Kill, Reign In Blood, Darkness Descends, Peace Sells..etc)

"Master Of Puppets did NOTHING to make Thrash a better or more viable genre (as UltraBoris says)."
And he got that right.

You are also extremely delusional. Calling Venom Sellouts and holding Metallica in such a high esteem...
The definition of a sellout is someone who compromises their sound to sell more. Do you think that there was such glorifying of Metallica in the 80s? Not NEARLY. People could put things into perspective at the time and although there was a certain hype, it's nowhere near wh

[toolazytofindan]

So that my above post isn't misunderstood, I did not mean that Master Of Puppets came out in 1985, I meant it was topped even BEFORE it came out, notice "before".

Re-loads for second installment.

[toolazytofindan]

Well, OF COURSE everyone takes influences from someone. What is this, first grade philosophy class. Let's incorporate some higher thinking in this debate shall we.

Since the sphere of influence determines your impact upon a given scene at a specific period of time, then by definition the more influential a band is, the more significant it's impact and the more credit it should receive because it has consequently contributed more in defining the scene at that period of time and also in the years that were to follow. Therefore, the more lasting the influence and impact, the greater the accomplishment. It is a fact that THERE WERE MORE THRASH BANDS INFLUEBCED BY VENOM IN THE EIGHTIES THAN HEAVY METAL BANDS INFLUENCED BY BLACK SABBATH AT THAT PERIOD OF TIME. Can you even comprehend what that means? It is therefore logical to measure a band by its scale of influence and the time period for which this influence was still effecting the progression of the scene. Venom's lyrical themes in 1980 were influencing bands writing in the late 1980s.
However, NONE of the musical elements of Master Of puppets that you hold so dearly were taken as an influence because others had introduced all those elements in Thrash BEFORE Metallica and did it better too.
All the punkish elements can be witnessed in their full effect on "Game Over", all the sinister Black Metal tendacies on "In The Sign Of Evil", all the Death Metal tendacies on "Seven Churches". The scene was progressing month by month.
There were bands that were MEANER, FASTER, MORE TECHNICAL, MORE EFFECTIVE, MORE INFLUENTIAL AND MORE THRASHY THAN METALLICA. No matter which way you see it, they were not the gods you make them out to be. Watchtower was incorporating Jazz structures in their songs! hey actually played a Jazzy rendition of Thrash, with effective riffs and unexpected solos. THAT'S PROGRESSIVE.
Coroner found the perfect balance between techjnical riffing and melodiic guitar work while still adhering to a Thrash principle and not crossing over to the Speed metal spectrum.
Hellhammer had everyone who wanted to appear sick and twisted BEATEN TO THE GROUND, by 1983. Holy S*%t. Just listen to Triumph Of Death. Is that TOTALLY sinister and inverted or what? And the dynamics you mentioned.. they were perfected by Judas Priest and Black Sabbath in the seventies.
You want a Thrash band who is able to display talent by playing various renditions of Thrash. Try Kreator. Old School Thrash, influential to Death metal, then shifted more progressive rendition by 1987, perfected it by 1989, incorporated speed elemnts in the mix by 1990, went through an industrial and gothic era in the 90s... NOW THAT'S WHAT I CALL DIVERSITY.
As for Thrash stripped down to its bare essense. How about Infernal Overkill By Destruction and Darkness Descends by Dark Angel?

[toolazytofindan]

Again, so that there is no misunderstanding, I am, not implying that Master Of Puppets had Black Or Death Metal tendacies. That would be RIDICULOUS.

[oshkoshshred311]

Dude have you ever even heard the interlude in master of puppets....I know you probably dislike it because it's such a "cliche" now a days...but everything you just mentioned...not a one comes close....but hey that's just my opinion....I'm not gonna argue anymore...

[toolazytofindan]

Am I trying to take down a brick wall by throwing eggs at it here?
Have I heard the interlude? With all the respect, I heard it before you knew who Metallica were. Over and over again. I payed the album every ounch of respect it deserves. But nothing more than that as you can see.

And have you listened to "everything I just mentioned?" I highly doubt it. REALLY doubt it. Becasue had you really had listened to that material, your outlook on Thrash would have been really different.
I don't dislike thing because they are cliches. For example, if you dislike Destruction for signing up with Nuclear Blast for a couple of albums, (because hating Nuclear Blast is a cliche)well, you are just hopeless. If you own "The Antichrist" you'll know what I mean. .....THRASH 'TILL DEATH.

[oshkoshshred311]

think of what yur sayin' bro. Haven't heard of those bands? Dude you are completely wrong. First off I never said anything to bash even one of those other bands. But honestly Venom musically compared to metallica. Bro that and no other stands up to Metallica. Granted those other bands play faster and harder okay great. What though? That's it? So who cares. You obviously don't even realized Metallica was considered a thrash band and then evolved into something so different....many considered them not even to be thrash anymore. Your loyalties are obviously to the label of "Thrash" not to the music that is created. And honestly I don't know how anyone can even mention a friggin band like venom in the same breath as metallica. Slayer maybe....but please no band has put as big of scar on music (not "thrash") like metallica has. this conversation is over. just like half those bands.

*anti spam check

[toolazytofindan]

oshkoshshred311 wrote:

think of what yur sayin' bro. Haven't heard of those bands? Dude you are completely wrong. First off I never said anything to bash even one of those other bands. But honestly Venom musically compared to metallica. Bro that and no other stands up to Metallica. Granted those other bands play faster and harder okay great. What though? That's it? So who cares. You obviously don't even realized Metallica was considered a thrash band and then evolved into something so different....many considered them not even to be thrash anymore. Your loyalties are obviously to the label of "Thrash" not to the music that is created. And honestly I don't know how anyone can even mention a friggin band like venom in the same breath as metallica. Slayer maybe....but please no band has put as big of scar on music (not "thrash" like metallica has. this conversation is over. just like half those bands.

On the contrary. Some of those bands are still going strong and making solid additions to their discographies. This shows you are ignorant and not familiar with the bands I listed.

And bands like Kreator did more to change and redifine metal than Metallica could ever begin to comprehend. Just any old schooler who has actually been there to witness a lot of these events take place. I have invited a guy over. Let's see if he can find some time.

And for the last time, a lot of those bands are more technical than Metalliica, some, like Venom, are less technical. But technicality alone should not be a measure.

[KeptFresh]

Calling St. Anger "nu-metal" is the most absurd statement I've ever heard. If there is any album that St. Anger reflects in attitude, style, and aggression, it is Kill em' All. St. Anger reflects what Metallica has always stood for, regardless of what it sounds like to your ears or not.
Tuning your instruments a certain way does not catagorize your music.

Metallica are artists. This is not limited to music. Like a paintbrush is to a painter, a guitar is to a guitarist. It's a medium. A reflection of a person. To limit yourself into one genre of music (ie. Thrash) is setting up a brick wall in front of you as an artist. If a band wants to play rock, blues, metal,jazz, etc. then more power to them. YOUR (people bashing metallica) negative comments towards them come from thier music not meeting your standards, not how talented they are as artists.
I hope to god i'm not doing the same thing in 25 years that I am now. Maybe you do.

[oshkoshshred311]

thank you keptfresh. Oh and I said half the bands, I never said some weren't still goin. that's great they're making additions too. But what are they doing that's so revolutionary...nothing. If they were it would be making a lot more of a stir. And I'm not talking about popularity or any of that crap. I'm talking musically. A lot of music is relation. So tell Metallica's millions of fan's worldwide what your saying. seriously. I'm sure they believe that any of those bands could stand up to the music Metallica produced throughout the 80's.

[KeptFresh]

Music doesn't have to be revolutionary to be great. Any personal opinion you or I share about any type of music is simply that, opinion. And I think I speak for many Metallica fans when I say that its gratifying to be able to relate to a band because of who they are, not what they are trying to create for you. So in that case I stick by my previous statments.
And with regards to any of these other bands standing up to Metallica, in which way? Techincally? Probable if not very likely. Artistically? I HIGHLY doubt it. If music is about "relation" then Metallica is far superiour, based on status and following.

[KeptFresh]

OshKosh, I think I misinterpretated your meaning. My last following comments are more directed towards "tolazytofindan"

[Very_Hard]

Wow, most of you must be either 11-13 year olds or know NOTHING about metal, thrash metal being exact. Most of you have NEVER heard Venom nor any other ''thrash'' bands other than Metallica. Compared to other thrash bands, Metallica is worthless.

Do any of you really know Venom? Venom practically created Metallica! If you don't know anything on a subject, dont post on it. How can Metallica and Venom not be even ''breathe together'' or whatever, the nonsense I read on this thread if it weren't for Venom, Metallica wouldn't even be!

Go listen to some real thrash! Pick up a Slayer, Motorhead, or even an Exodus album since those are more popular thrash albums that can be found, than come say Metallica is soo great.

I can't believe you call yoursevles a "metalhead" when you haven't even heard of Venom, and you dare say "since I havent heard of them they must be bad"!What you have yet learned is that most underground bands, are WAYY better than the mainstream ones.

[rattlehead999]

you cant say metallica is "worthless" compared to other thrash metal just because it wasnt as influential. but yeah i completely agree with very_hard. whats with all you little kids and metallica? ohh i like metallica im a badass metalhead! yeah theyre a great thrash metal band, but seriously pick up some motorhead or metal church or exodus megadeth or slayer or anthrax or something besides metallica and actually learn something about thrash. i bet half the people who like metallica never heard of exodus and thats the band kirk hammet came from! pick up bonded by blood and see how similar its is too kill em all. so stop commenting on a subject that you dont know what your talking about. listen to these other bands and more then make your opinions

[toolazytofindan]

KeptFresh wrote:

Calling St. Anger "nu-metal" is the most absurd statement I've ever heard. If there is any album that St. Anger reflects in attitude, style, and aggression, it is Kill em' All. St. Anger reflects what Metallica has always stood for, regardless of what it sounds like to your ears or not.
Tuning your instruments a certain way does not catagorize your music.

Metallica are artists. This is not limited to music. Like a paintbrush is to a painter, a guitar is to a guitarist. It's a medium. A reflection of a person. To limit yourself into one genre of music (ie. Thrash) is setting up a brick wall in front of you as an artist. If a band wants to play rock, blues, metal,jazz, etc. then more power to them. YOUR (people bashing metallica) negative comments towards them come from thier music not meeting your standards, not how talented they are as artists.
I hope to god i'm not doing the same thing in 25 years that I am now. Maybe you do.

St Anger reflects the spirit of Kill Em ALl? Yeah, tell me another story granpa. "Invisible kid invisible kid, got stuck where he hid". Yeah, I can REALLY see the anger and aggresion blast forth.
For you to make such a statement means that you haven't heard enough post-2000 Thrash. Hell you haven't heard enough Thash in general. Listen to "Thrash Assault". THAT album brings forth the aggresion of the 80s, not "St Anger".
Why do you think it's unlikely for the tech-bands I mentioned to be more technical than Metallica? Pick up a Watchtower, Sadus or Coroner album. LISTEN FIRST, hear what I've heard, experience what I have experienced and THEN make comments.
And what makes you think that Metallica was so much more popular than the other Thrash bands in the 80s. You are only saying that because you see how much more popular they are today. But at the time the thrash scene was alive and kicking, trust me, the gap wasn't nearly as big as it is today. Not by ANY stretch of the imagination. ESPECIALLY before the mid-80s when they begun commercialising their sound.
And Very_hard and Rattlehead999, either post something NEW, or just don't post in this thread, because you've obvioulsy NOT read the comments and you are reitarating over things we have allready said.
To OshKosh: Why would I care what millions of deluded Metallica fanboys around the world today have to say about the scene in the 80s? They, like you do not ANYTHING, because they've only been in metal for 2 years and their only way to meet bands is through the internet which provides them with all sorts of twisted information. If you think that there are no Thrash albums that can destroy Metallica's work in the 80s, that's because you haven't heard enough Thrash to have heard those albums.

Back to Kept_Fresh: I can see that reading with comprehension is not your strong point. I never said that a band has to constantly adhere to the principles of a specific genre to be good. I said that they shouldn't COMPROMISE THEIR SOUND. Nothing more. They can play whateve they damn like, but turning from thrash to easy-to-digest rock just to sell more is selling out. In addition to that, I even mentioned that I admire Kreator for trascending the genres with such ease and excelling in everything they've attempted. You clearly cannot read with comprehension if you've missed that.
But I can see I'm not getting through to you, because you are simply NOT willing to learn. You immaturely insist not to retract and investigate the facts and material I've suggested. You keep on rambling without having anything essential to contribute because your lack of knowledge and experience is kicking you in the teeth.
Answer me this: How can you claim that St Anger reflects the Thrash spirit of Kill Em All, when the BAND ITSELF claims it's a rock album? huh?

[MOTOPSYCHO]

Well I'm pretty sure Metallica have the title of being the Greatest Metal band of all time, whats Venom got????

I'm pretty sure Hetfeild is known as the greatest rythmn guitarist of all time, whats Venom got???

Kirk Hammett is consistantly placed in top 10 metal guiatarist polls, whats Venom got???

Answer the questions above and youll see why Cronos has no write to insult them, just cause he's band can't make it as big, pussy.

[Lycanthropos]

MOTOPSYCHO:

hahahahahahaha

Bathory is the greatest metal band of all time.

Hetfield HAHAHAHA wait. . . LMFAO, ah, greatest HAHAHAHA oh no HAHAHAHAHA **RYTHYM** guitarist of hmmk!! all time? 1st NO and 2nd who cares a rythym guitarist? A riff-crunching monster I could give a shit about, but a rythym guitarist? Maybe that is a pussy enough honour to call Hetfield good at.

And believe your top ten polls all you want, Hammett isn't special. He's good but if I was Satriani I would be thinking, "oh man, I don't get it, all that stuff I taught him, it's like being a gourmet chef that and mentoring a guy who chooses his knowledge of how to order really good off the Wendy's menu over applying and pushing himself. . ." Hammett sucks if you compare him to actual great guitarists. He's good, but come on.

And if you haven't noticed from reading, Venom's got the right to call themselves the birthgivers of thrash. Venom are Metallica's ****ing thrash daddies. Venom's got the respect of every great metal band you know. Venom's got a special place in thier hearts. Venom's got anthems upon anthems that will kick the asses of fans of the real essence of metal for years and years, just like they kicked Metallica's asses and influenced them to make thrash metal themselves. Metallica's got a bunch of posers for fans that talk too much shit. Yeah, what's Venom got?

[Lycanthropos]

PS Bathory nudges out Judas Priest for the honour of being the summit of the mountain of metal. But I will respect you if you call it Priest. But metallica?

[toolazytofindan]

MOTOPSYCHO: Work on your basic comprehension skills too. Besides the points Lycan made, you have to understand that the beauty of Venom's music does not lie in its complexity. If that were the sole measure we used to judge music, then tech-death metal bands would own anything and everything.

*anti-spam check

[metallicarulz69]

What the ****? Venon isn't metallica's trash daddies. Metallica is the god thrash metal. Now don't get me wrong Venon is bettter tahn metallica in some assets such as: sucking ass, shity guitar and having a homosexual name.

[guitarboy112392]

i think these guys are just mad cause tallica rules there ****ing asses!

[toolazytofindan]

Thank you for effectively proving that the average age on this site is no more than 12 years of age.

I have tackled the points you two have put up in my previous posts. Go back and read.

[metalupyour_ass]

Lycanthropos wrote:

MOTOPSYCHO:

hahahahahahaha

Bathory is the greatest metal band of all time.

Hetfield HAHAHAHA wait. . . LMFAO, ah, greatest HAHAHAHA oh no HAHAHAHAHA **RYTHYM** guitarist of hmmk!! all time? 1st NO and 2nd who cares a rythym guitarist? A riff-crunching monster I could give a shit about, but a rythym guitarist? Maybe that is a pussy enough honour to call Hetfield good at.

And believe your top ten polls all you want, Hammett isn't special. He's good but if I was Satriani I would be thinking, "oh man, I don't get it, all that stuff I taught him, it's like being a gourmet chef that and mentoring a guy who chooses his knowledge of how to order really good off the Wendy's menu over applying and pushing himself. . ." Hammett sucks if you compare him to actual great guitarists. He's good, but come on.

And if you haven't noticed from reading, Venom's got the right to call themselves the birthgivers of thrash. Venom are Metallica's ****ing thrash daddies. Venom's got the respect of every great metal band you know. Venom's got a special place in thier hearts. Venom's got anthems upon anthems that will kick the asses of fans of the real essence of metal for years and years, just like they kicked Metallica's asses and influenced them to make thrash metal themselves. Metallica's got a bunch of posers for fans that talk too much shit. Yeah, what's Venom got?

what's wrong with rythm guitarist? some good lead guitar are pussies qhen it's time to do rythm. It's a total different guitar style. rythm will have some habilities very well developed that lead don't have. lead too have that rythm don't. James ****en play every riffs, singing at the same time. many lead guitarist aren't able to that when they do rythm. and its ok cause they are lead guitar. it's a totally different way of playing guitar. IMO
1982, wasn't the years of venoms fist release??? if so, how could they have influenced a band like metallica so much. I really think sabbath and motorhead influenced tallica more than venom

[MadMetalManiac]

CannibalBirth :
To people who don't know Venom they not only created black metal, but thrash metal as well. They have influenced a lot of bands like Slayer, Megadeth, Anthrax, and even Metallica themselves. Metallica's biggest influence on Kill em All was basically Venom. Must be kind of weird having one of your influences calling you crap.

I don't know about creating Thrash Metal but Black Metal, Yes.

It's funny, because I've seen a Kill em All Tour video were Dave Mustaine(Back when he was with Metallica) calls Venom one of their key influences and so did the rest of Metallica.

[MadMetalManiac]

CannibalBirth :To people who don't know Venom they not only created black metal, but thrash metal as well. They have influenced a lot of bands like Slayer, Megadeth, Anthrax, and even Metallica themselves. Metallica's biggest influence on Kill em All was basically Venom. Must be kind of weird having one of your influences calling you crap.

Probably didn't create Thrash Metal but Black Metal Yes.

It's funny, beacause i've seen a kill em All Tour video were Dave Mustaine(Back when he was with Metallica)saying that Venom was one of their key influences, and so did the rest of Metallica.

I would say Exodus created Thrash, Kirk Hammet was with Exodus way before Metallica had em. The only thing is that Metallica was a bit more recognized while Exodus was still more underground.

[MadMetalManiac]

CannibalBirth :
To people who don't know Venom they not only created black metal, but thrash metal as well. They have influenced a lot of bands like Slayer, Megadeth, Anthrax, and even Metallica themselves. Metallica's biggest influence on Kill em All was basically Venom. Must be kind of weird having one of your influences calling you crap.

Venom created Thrash Metal? NO
Venom creating Black Metal? Yes

I feel Exodus created Thrash Metal, Kirk Hammet was thrashing it up whith Exodus way before Metallica had em. Metallica was a bit more recognized than Exodus, while on the other hand, Exodus was still a bit more underground.Thats why Exodus doesn't get the recognition of creating thrash metal.(Which I feel they do)

It's funny, because i've seen a Kill em All tour video were Dave Mustaine(back when he was back with Metallica) said that one of his key influences was Venom and so did the rest of Metallica.

[MOTOPSYCHO]

Ok, neither Exodus or Venom created thrash metal, have any of you pussy's heard of a little old band called Accept, they are the inventors of thrash check em' out and see for yourself.

And by the way it is true that one of Metallica's first influences were Venom, so why does Cronos have to be such a ****head towards them, hes such a faggot, just because Metallica dont worship the devil and sacrifice goats n virgins dosnt mean they can't have a kick ass band. Like i said in a previous comment, maybe if Venom could compare to Metallicas height of success, Cronos wouldnt be such a fag, but that would never happen because Venom are shit.

Venoms pathetic and Cronos can suck my chubb stick.

[MOTOPSYCHO]

Lycanthropos wrote:

MOTOPSYCHO:

hahahahahahaha

Bathory is the greatest metal band of all time.

Hetfield HAHAHAHA wait. . . LMFAO, ah, greatest HAHAHAHA oh no HAHAHAHAHA **RYTHYM** guitarist of hmmk!! all time? 1st NO and 2nd who cares a rythym guitarist? A riff-crunching monster I could give a shit about, but a rythym guitarist? Maybe that is a pussy enough honour to call Hetfield good at.


And believe your top ten polls all you want, Hammett isn't special. He's good but if I was Satriani I would be thinking, "oh man, I don't get it, all that stuff I taught him, it's like being a gourmet chef that and mentoring a guy who chooses his knowledge of how to order really good off the Wendy's menu over applying and pushing himself. . ." Hammett sucks if you compare him to actual great guitarists. He's good, but come on.

And if you haven't noticed from reading, Venom's got the right to call themselves the birthgivers of thrash. Venom are Metallica's ****ing thrash daddies. Venom's got the respect of every great metal band you know. Venom's got a special place in thier hearts. Venom's got anthems upon anthems that will kick the asses of fans of the real essence of metal for years and years, just like they kicked Metallica's asses and influenced them to make thrash metal themselves. Metallica's got a bunch of posers for fans that talk too much shit. Yeah, what's Venom got?

Dude your a pussy and you clearly no nothing of music, Hetfeild is one the Greatest voices and rythmn guitarists in Metal, just because you like Venom better dosnt mean you cant admit that, so stop being a wanker. And would you prefer Kirk to have just used everything he learnt of Satch instead of creating his own style? pffffft, that would be fkn lame and he is good and he's ****en great! and i have compared him to other guitarists, im not even a huge Talica fan there probably not even in my top 10 fav bands but Kirk Hammett is a ****en awesome guitarist.

AND VENOM HAVE NO RIGHT IN FUCKING HELL TO CALL THEMSELVES THE CREATORS OF THRASH BECAUSE THAT TITLE BELONGS TO ACCEPT!!!!

Heres an appropriate title for Venom, "The Most Envious Black Metal Band Ever" and its funny because they envy a band who are influenced by them that just shows how shit they are, hahahahaha.

[WeirdMariachi]

.....guys can we please talk about something else, this whole METALLICA VS VENOM has been going on for days now and its not going nowhere.

But I have the remedy for you all, why don't we all just play some of porn hidden in that secret folder we all have and blast some metallica or venom while we see some blonde bimbo get her snootch pounded.

I hope my advice helps

[MadMetalManiac]

Ok, neither Exodus or Venom created thrash metal, have any of you pussy's heard of a little old band called Accept, they are the inventors of thrash check em' out and see for yourself.

If anything, Motorhead(since 1975)is the true creator of thrash.

Motorheads thrashy Ace Spades came out in 1980 before Accepts 1983 song "fast as a shark". Slayer's Show No Mercy and Metallica's Kill em all album was also in 1983 so Accept is eliminated.

[MadMetalManiac]

MOTOPSYCHO : Ok, neither Exodus or Venom created thrash metal, have any of you pussy's heard of a little old band called Accept, they are the inventors of thrash check em' out and see for yourself.

If anything Motorhead(since 1975)is the creator of Thrash Metal.

Motorhead's thrashy Ace of Spades came out in 1980, before Accepts 1983 song "fast as a shark".

Slayers and Metallica's first albums came out in 1983
so that eliminates Accept as being the creator of thrash.

[Lycanthropos]

Okay I'm done. You guys did it with this Accept shit.

You're retards, clearly. Accept are heavy metal. Judas Priest, heavy metal, Iron Maiden, heavy metal. Mercyful Fate, heavy metal. Heavy metal is a genre. WAKE UP.

Exodus formed early but didn't put anything out until 1985. Just like Overkill, another band heralded as creating thrash when they did not, who also began in 1980 and their first album took until 1985 as well to be released. Venom formed in 1978 and had the thrash sound out that BIRTHED the entire thrash explosion in 1981. 1981, not 1982 for the second time in this thread.

Venom black metal? Don't delude yourself. That's a common misconception and if you subscribe to it rather than have a working set of ears that tells you it's thrash that's fine. Fine for you who remaining thick on OTHER'S thoughts. Fine for your ears that don't have any hard work to do. Your education is hindered if you can hear all the other thrash greats and think, "hey this is thrash." But then when you hear Venom you're like "This black metal is weak." That makes you metally retarded if this is you.

And not having heard of Bathory!? If they're so great why haven't you heard of them? Because you live under a ****ing rock, don't have any friends from a real circle of metal, and you don't educate yourself, and don't look for the best music there is available for you to hear, and just plain aren't a real metalhead.

PS To hear what Venom would have sounded like if they played a black style listen to "The Return. . ." by Bathory. This should make it obvious that Venom was playing thrash, and Bathory had blackened it, not Venom. If this turns you off like Venom did (because real metal obviously doesn't run in your veins) then go be in awe of Nordland I and Nordland II. You won't believe it's the same one man that created both. (well most people would, BECAUSE THEY HAVE HEARD OF BATHORY BEFORE) We can arrange a transfusion, and get some metal in your veins, but it will take full cooperation and hard work on your parts, anyone who is willing.

You guys think Hetfield is good and coordinated. Good yes, but not great or the best. Watch Jari Maenpaa play and sing with 100 times more dificult riffs (and solos, and harmonies) with 20 times more intensity in his voice then come back and say that.

Bye, and thanks for the laughs. They really do just keep coming. No one listened when one of the very first things I said was please do not try from here on unless you can refute mine (and toolazy's as it turns out) points, or make some of your own. If you don't like Venom's music that's fine, but you still can't deny their major contribution. By saying Metallica did MORE for metal than Venom, you are undermining Venom's contribution because IT WAS the greater of the two. Fight it all you want, you can't win.

PS Seriously, you guys have no idea how funny.

[Lycanthropos]

MadMetalManiac:
Motorhead(since 1975)is the creator of Thrash Metal.

Motorhead's thrashy Ace of Spades came out in 1980, before Accepts 1983 song "fast as a shark".

Slayers and Metallica's first albums came out in 1983
so that eliminates Accept as being the creator of thrash.
(quote didn't work for me)
_____

Yes Motorhead was a prime influence for Venom and many thrash bands even. But Venom took the Motorhead sound to another level (or a few other levels). Motorhead is thrashy, but technically they invented thrash's counterpart Speed Metal, while Venom invented Thrash. That's a whole other discussion, and one that certainly doesn't belong HERE.

[MadMetalManiac]

I really don't feel Venom created Thrash metal. If you hear Venom's first album(1981)Welcome to Hell, all Venom did was play fast punk music with satanic lyrics. What they later called in their second album "Black Metal"(1982).

[Lycanthropos]

They weren't calling anything anything with that album title. It was just a title for an album and a song and dealt with their satanic stance. They were not naming their metal.

Also there is more metal in Venom than DRI or Cryptic Slaughter - bands that played crossover (a style that mixed punk and thrash, much more punky than thrash, but still not punk). It goes to show you Venom were inventing thrash. Thrash is punk made metal, well then it was Venom who made it metal.

How can DRI and Cryptic Slaughter not be punk music, but way more punk than Venom?

[MadMetalManiac]

Lycanthropos: They weren't calling anything anything with that album title. It was just a title for an album and a song and dealt with their satanic stance. They were not naming their metal.

Also there is more metal in Venom than DRI or Cryptic Slaughter - bands that played crossover (a style that mixed punk and thrash, much more punky than thrash, but still not punk). It goes to show you Venom were inventing thrash. Thrash is punk made metal, well then it was Venom who made it metal.

I actually have a quote that Venom said that gave them a head start in making them the first Black Metal band.

"Our music is Power Metal, Venom Metal, Black Metal, not Heavy Metal cos that's for the chicks"

Of course theirs more metal in Venom (it's Darker) than DRI, I never even mentioned DRI, but they do have a fast(way too fast compared to Venom)punky sound than a thrashy one(still not punk tho'). Like you said ("Venom was inventing thrash"), but they weren't playing it. Just as Motorhead was creating it with the whole speed thrashy metal sound in 1975.

[Lycanthropos]

sigh, you have a quote where they called something Venom Metal too. They accept their credit for black metal (they get a lot of it) but that's the whole misconception. They weren't actually playing black metal (again see the Bathory album The Ruturn I listed to confirm this as that's what Venom would be if black, but they weren't so don't bring the Venom played black metal argument). And the proof is they played thrash. What year was that quote from, this interview or before their was a word for thrash? Either way that's an example of something that would mislead you were you to believe it. Ever heard a Power Metal band, by the way? I brought in DRI and Cryptic Slaughter to make a point. If DRI and Cryptic Slaughter are too metal to be punk (which they are, hence crossover, a genre to clarify this), then how is Venom simply sped up Punk with Satanic lyrics (which would still be within the Punk genre because lyrics wouldn't matter enough if they actually played punk music)? Venom is more metal than DRI and Cryptic Slaughter. Too metal to be in crossover even, so they fit in thrash. And they are the first band too logically fit within the thrash genre.

[MOTOPSYCHO]

Ok guys im willing to admit that yes, there is hard evidence here that Accept may not have been the 1st thrash band, but i'll be ****en deead before i say that Venom had anything to do with the birth of thrash, because they didnt, i change my vote to Motorhead.

[MonsterOfRock]

Why are we having dis discussion??? What the fcuk's a Venom??? Does neone here not knw metallica??? Hello!!Reality Check!!! 100000 People in a concert VS 15 Drunk satanists in a Paddic??? Fcukin' Oath!!!!

[Lycanthropos]

Hello Reality check, both bands made livings off music for 25 and 23 years. Hello Reality check one played thrash the entire time while the other was formed in part because they loved the first one and their music was definitely formed as a direct result of the first band and they couldn't even play what they loved so much for more than 4 albums while Venom has made a living for 2 years longer and playing the same thrash for more than 7 years. 15 Satanists aren't gonna buy these guys gas and power in their homes so stfu AND READ. Metallica is succesful, but Venom had a more important influence and impact. Metallica fans include hard rock fans and people who work at Wal-Mart, Venom fans include aspiring metal musicians and fans of metal's fine history and last but not least, fans of estreme music and its history, people who can say they lived the entire experience and traded tapes of all the bands when they just had demos, and saw them live with their equals.
Fcukin' Oath!!!! (whatever that means)

[Lycanthropos]

**y and last but not least, fans of extreme music and its history, and of course people who can say they lived the entire experience and traded tapes of all the bands when they just had demos, and saw them live with their equals.

[MadMetalManiac]

Lycanthropos wrote:

sigh, you have a quote where they called something Venom Metal too. They accept their credit for black metal (they get a lot of it) but that's the whole misconception. They weren't actually playing black metal (again see the Bathory album The Ruturn I listed to confirm this as that's what Venom would be if black, but they weren't so don't bring the Venom played black metal argument). And the proof is they played thrash. What year was that quote from, this interview or before their was a word for thrash? Either way that's an example of something that would mislead you were you to believe it. Ever heard a Power Metal band, by the way? I brought in DRI and Cryptic Slaughter to make a point. If DRI and Cryptic Slaughter are too metal to be punk (which they are, hence crossover, a genre to clarify this), then how is Venom simply sped up Punk with Satanic lyrics (which would still be within the Punk genre because lyrics wouldn't matter enough if they actually played punk music)? Venom is more metal than DRI and Cryptic Slaughter. Too metal to be in crossover even, so they fit in thrash. And they are the first band too logically fit within the thrash genre.

"Our music is Power Metal, Venom Metal, Black Metal, not Heavy Metal cos that's for the chicks"

The quote was from their sencond album Black Metal in 1982.

They said that to make their Metal seem different than your typical Heavy Metal(which they were).

Which people took and gaved birth to Black Metal.(They do deserve the credit for Black Metal)

Of course I listened to a power metal band and it's nothing like Venom.

They did mention power metal, but the genre of Power Metal belonged to Helloween in 1982.

Which they couldn't have done without the influences of the glorious Maiden back in 1976.

[MadMetalManiac]

You'll find all of Black Metal's trademarks in Bathory, but Venom influenced and gaved Black Metal the name, therefore making Venom the creator of Black Metal. Besides Bathory's first album came out in 1984.

[MOTOPSYCHO]

Lycanthropos wrote:

Hello Reality check, both bands made livings off music for 25 and 23 years. Hello Reality check one played thrash the entire time while the other was formed in part because they loved the first one and their music was definitely formed as a direct result of the first band and they couldn't even play what they loved so much for more than 4 albums while Venom has made a living for 2 years longer and playing the same thrash for more than 7 years. 15 Satanists aren't gonna buy these guys gas and power in their homes so stfu AND READ. Metallica is succesful, but Venom had a more important influence and impact. Metallica fans include hard rock fans and people who work at Wal-Mart, Venom fans include aspiring metal musicians and fans of metal's fine history and last but not least, fans of estreme music and its history, people who can say they lived the entire experience and traded tapes of all the bands when they just had demos, and saw them live with their equals.
Fcukin' Oath!!!! (whatever that means)

VENOM ARE NOT FUCKING THRASH, STOP SLANDERING THE NAME THRASH BY INCORPERATING THIS PATHETIC EXCUSE OF A BAND INTO THAT GENRE!!!!

[Lycanthropos]

Are you looking at metalcore bands? because if you look at metal bands you will see the venom influence carries great weight, even Slipknot were smart enough to include them in their sphere of influence (well, the metalhead(s) that actually exist in the band). Plus Venom's influence *at their time of achievement* would have been double or five times Metallica's when the contributions they were making were new. Countless bands influenced, Megadeth, Metallica, Bathory, Celtic Frost, Sodom, Slayer, Possessed, Exodus, Kreator, Destruction, Hirax, Heathen, Forbidden, Vio-lence, Anthrax, Death Angel, Dark Angel, Hellhammer, Living Death but this has been pointed out before and you didn't get it then, should you now? Probably not but it applies just the same.

I don't know what's so hard to hear in Venom regarding thrash. Listen to the song, "At War With Satan." Come back and tell me it's not a great thrash song. Tell me this band didn't lay out countless of classic thrash patterns, tell me they weren't repsonsible for fleshing out these musicians once the sound hit their ears. They're not Gods of metal, but you don't realize their place and arguing and remaining in disbelief isn't going to change their place. If you don't accept it it is you who misses out, not Venom, or Venom fans, or bands influenced by Venom, and certainly not me. Deny all you like.

Again about how Venom is "shitty:" You really think Kirk Hammett could have made the riffs and sound the same way he did had Venom not come first? The Venom guitarist is good because he got together with his band and created something new that worked very well. Kirk's excellent, but comparing their guitar soloing skills undermines the creation Venom gave the world. Hammett wouldn't have made the songs he did within the same framework if it wasn't for Venom. Hammett may have done things with this framework but he learned it from Venom and learned it well (just like everyone else Venom influenced at the time, just like everyone that Venom made want to pick up a guitar and make music).

Now are you going to come back with something mature containing facts and points for refuting the stuff you disagree with me about? Or would you rather shit in your hand, fling it at me and then hide behind a piece of cheesecloth again?

[MOTOPSYCHO]

I'll finish this shit up by saying that you are very arrogant in your opinions and nothing I say whether it be 100% true or totally false, you will not agree with me, so until you open up your mind and stop living in a world of your own where everything you do/say is correct, so don't insult me with your close minded opinions, because thats all they are OPINIONS not FACT.

[MOTOPSYCHO]

BTW, after reading thru Cronos's veiws on Satanism, he's not a ****en Satanist, he's a ****en Anarchist and an Athiest, pfffft,and the only reason Metal is seen as the "Devil's Music" is because bands like Venom and Slayer give them all that kind of reputation, i mean for ****s sake have you seen Ozzy, he always wears crucifixes he has tatoo's of crucifixes he even has crucifixes hung in his home, and he is looked upon as one of the greatest evil's in metal. This whole "Metal Is The Devil's Music" image is bullshit, iv'e been christened and I still listen to metal, the way i see it is you satanic cock suckers can burn in hell with Crono's while i'm up stairs chilling with Hendrix and Dime.

[toolazytofindan]

MadMetalManiac wrote:

Lycanthropos wrote:

sigh, you have a quote where they called something Venom Metal too. They accept their credit for black metal (they get a lot of it) but that's the whole misconception. They weren't actually playing black metal (again see the Bathory album The Ruturn I listed to confirm this as that's what Venom would be if black, but they weren't so don't bring the Venom played black metal argument). And the proof is they played thrash. What year was that quote from, this interview or before their was a word for thrash? Either way that's an example of something that would mislead you were you to believe it. Ever heard a Power Metal band, by the way? I brought in DRI and Cryptic Slaughter to make a point. If DRI and Cryptic Slaughter are too metal to be punk (which they are, hence crossover, a genre to clarify this), then how is Venom simply sped up Punk with Satanic lyrics (which would still be within the Punk genre because lyrics wouldn't matter enough if they actually played punk music)? Venom is more metal than DRI and Cryptic Slaughter. Too metal to be in crossover even, so they fit in thrash. And they are the first band too logically fit within the thrash genre.

"Our music is Power Metal, Venom Metal, Black Metal, not Heavy Metal cos that's for the chicks"

The quote was from their sencond album Black Metal in 1982.

They said that to make their Metal seem different than your typical Heavy Metal(which they were).

Which people took and gaved birth to Black Metal.(They do deserve the credit for Black Metal)

Of course I listened to a power metal band and it's nothing like Venom.

They did mention power metal, but the genre of Power Metal belonged to Helloween in 1982.

Which they couldn't have done without the influences of the glorious Maiden back in 1976.

Oh, so you have a QUOTE? Oooohhhh... News flash: Your quote means NOTHING. I actually own those releases and gues what: THE QUOTE IS FROM 1982 AND AT THE TIME NONE OF THE GENRE NAMES WERE ESTABLISHED AND THOSE THAT DID, DID NOT HAVE THE SAME MEANING THEY HAVE TODAY.

Venom was hugely influential in the rise of Thrash but not of Black Metal.

Let me give you a RECENT quote from a band that's been playoing BLACK METAL for over a decade:

"[...] but Venom weren't black metal, they were a punk-thrash band with Satanic imagery, you know..." - DARKTHRONE

Now that we are through with your obsolete quotes from 1982, Motorhead was more instrumental in shaping Speed metal, not Thrash, but you obviously can't make the distinction.
Accept was Heavy Metal, not Thrash.

Lycanthropos is not giving opinions, he's giving facts.

And since you guys like quotes so much let me give you a quote from a band that's still relevant to the Metal scene today:

"Venom had that vibe where you could just go out and do things.." - Mille Petrozza talking about how Venominfluenced his band, Kreator.

And some others:

"Our firstmost influences were Venom and Exodus" - Mike T. of Possessed

"We'd all go on the hills and blast Venom and Tank and we'd be a happy family, you know" - Hetfield talking about how NWOBHM affected the shaping of Bay Area Thrash


And Motopsycho, you are clearly deluded for even thinking that Metallica had 1000th of the influence of Venom on the Thrash scene. The hype about Metallica came forth in the late 80s and onwards, but I can bet anything that you can't know that because you weren't relevant to the scene at the time. In the mid-eghties there's wasn't a large gap between metallica's popularity and Exodus's or Slayer's. NWOBHM bands were more popular. But you are using a 2000s metality and cannot put things into perspective because you think Metallica was always so much more popular. I'm telling you they were not, and especially up to the mid-eghties which were the genre defining years for Thrash, they weren't nowhere near as influential as Venom.

Your ignorance is kicking you in the teeth here. Either that, or as Lycanthropos pointed out, your DENIAL. Bands like Megadeth, Metallica, Bathory, Celtic Frost, Sodom, Slayer, Possessed, Exodus, Kreator, Destruction, Hirax, Heathen, Forbidden, Vio-lence, Anthrax, Death Angel, Dark Angel, Hellhammer, Living Death were all influenced by Venom and some were sometimes even cited as venom rip-offs. And as if that list is not long enough you can add Darkness, Assassin, Protector, Exumer, Verbal Abuse, Blind Illusion, The Legacy, Accuser, Nasty Savage, Onslaught and even bands who might not have been so heavily musically influenced, they still admired Venom for what they were doing for the scene and an example of such a band is Voivod.

I have listed THIRTY bands who cite Venom as a primary influence. WHY CAN'T YOU OPEN YOUR EYES AND REALISE WHAT I AND LYCANTHROPOS ARE TRYING TO TELL YOU?

[MadMetalManiac]

Motorhead started it(they gaved it speed),Venom(Darkened it)but both still didn't play Thrash.

If we were choosing who first played Thrash I would choose neither of them since both didn't play thrash, but if we were choosing who showed the first signs of thrash, it would be Motorhead then Venom.

Motorhead and Venom were a big influence to thrash(but didn't play it).

The real debate would be who played it, not influenced it.

Bands who actually played Thrash were Exodus(sure their album came out later, but they were actually playing thrash way before metallica was.

toolazytofindan :"but Venom weren't black metal, they were a punk-thrash band with Satanic imagery, you know..." - DARKTHRONE

That quote doesn't mean anything.
Plus, I never said Accept was Thrash. Someone in here said they were the 1st thrash band(that's funny) and I just had to say something.

[MOTOPSYCHO]

toolazytofindan wrote:

MadMetalManiac wrote:

Lycanthropos wrote:


And Motopsycho, you are clearly deluded for even thinking that Metallica had 1000th of the influence of Venom on the Thrash scene. The hype about Metallica came forth in the late 80s and onwards, but I can bet anything that you can't know that because you weren't relevant to the scene at the time. In the mid-eghties there's wasn't a large gap between metallica's popularity and Exodus's or Slayer's. NWOBHM bands were more popular. But you are using a 2000s metality and cannot put things into perspective because you think Metallica was always so much more popular. I'm telling you they were not, and especially up to the mid-eghties which were the genre defining years for Thrash, they weren't nowhere near as influential as Venom.

For ****s sake did i ver say that Metallica did more for the thrash scene, NO!, But for music in general they have done more then Venom could do in 3 lifetimes.

And what the **** is the point of stating that Venom were bigger than Metallica in the 80's, look at both bands now and where hey are, fair enough Metallica sold out big time at about 1990, but it dosnt change the fact the they are the band with greater success, They have done more for music then Venom ever have/will, they have sold way more albums then Venom ever have/will and they are nearly as big as Black Sabbath god dammit, and even though I despise anything Metallica released after the Justice album, and im sure the majority of people here would to, but you still cant deny those facts.

[Lycanthropos]

So following that logic, Green Day are the almighty rulers of Punk and the Sex Pistols are comparitively garbage. Plus you can't even string a sentence together without restraining your spaz, so obviously no one expects you to understand how meaningless mainstream success is. Your attention span and maturity seem to be linked. Mainstream success is the result of targeting 12-14 year olds as an audience, building everything as a result of this fact, and succeeding. Just because they sold out and had success means nothing. How can you make the point of their thrash albums being the only ones worth listening to (by you, "and most here") alongside the point that their successful albums (the sellout ones as you yourself allude to) cemented their legendary status. It's total ****ing hypocracy.

Say I try and tell you Cradle of Filth is legendary because lots of people bought their albums from "Cruelty" on. Even though they made their best music and contributions to metal during Dusk, Principle, and their death-metal demos. Every metalhead will tell you these are the better albums, but I am fine with the fact that they are renowned in popular culture for their sellout albums with catchy tunes they made especially for the complexities of a 13 year old mind. Nevermind how betrayed I felt by a band that showed some promise early in their career by their complete desertion of me as a fan in this successful change in direction. Do I sound logical? Sane, even?

[Lycanthropos]

the smiley is supposed to be a bracket

[MOTOPSYCHO]

Sellouts or not, whitch band has the greater success?

[toolazytofindan]

Commercial success doesn't make an aknowledged musician. With that logic, Britney Spears is a better musician than Vivaldi, no matter how much of a virtuoso Vivaldi was on his violin and how much "in touch" he was with the intangible aspects of music. But anyone who listens to Vivaldi and then Britney Spears and claims she is more accomplished as a musician does not understand what music is all about, as the pure form of art it emerged as. So, the fact that Metallica sold more than Venom (and I remind you that the difference mainly came in the late 80s) proves absolutely nothing. Actually, the largest consumer group, statistically, for rock-related music is 12-14 year olds. They buy the most music and commercial success depends on whether or not the music appeals to that age group. So, wow, you have just proven that Metallica appeals more to 13 year olds. I suppose this is the main requirement for becoming a metal god, eh?

[MOTOPSYCHO]

Dude wheteher your music apeals to 13 yr olds or 30 yr olds it still counts as a success and yes numerous people have stated that sarcastically "if selling out counts as success then Britney Spears and Greenday are the most talented things going round", but in reality success is success no matter how you claim it and even though Metallica did sell out to claim it they are extremely talented we all know that so stop fighting back with those comments.

Metallica may have sold out but they dont regret making Load and Re-Load, they probably assumed they would lose a vast majority of there Thrash fans but they did it for themselves for example, James was getting into Country western music at the time they were writing Re-Load, so he incorperated that into his music writing. And even though you and I both agree these "Different" albums are selling out, they were only servicing there own musical interests.

Ok then lets put aside the comercial success for a moment, in all honesty, is there one person in this forum that would choose any Venom album over Master Of Puppets or Ride The Lightning, because i would be very much intersted in finding out?

I find it disgusting that people in this forum can stand by and accept Cronos bad mouthing the band who wrote Fade To Black, Orion and Sanitarium.

*anti spam check. lets tone down the back and forth.

[toolazytofindan]

What's so great about a band who writes Orion? I am one of those thrashers that will tell you that Orion does nothing for me in comparison with instrumental mind****s like Arc-Lite or Nosferatu. That I don't even consider songs like Sanitarium to be Thrash essentials, let alone must-have masterpieces. Thrash is not about pseudo melodic fade-out solos. It's about raping the listener with a knife... It's not a pretty genre by any means. It's about the ugly bare essense of riffs, the blazing solos, the attitude the dirt and the filth. It's about the endless thrash**** of "Take Their Lives", about the insane drumming of "Undead" and the skills in "Energetic Disassembly". It's about the 28 second hawk screams in "The Marshall Arts" and the riffage of "Curse The Gods" and "Piranha". It's about "Perish In Flames". It's certainly NOT about being less over the top and more tuned down. It's NOT about being less than the best that you can be or setting the example that if you turn down to "2" and incorporate pseudo - melo passages in Master Of Puppets you can make it in this scene.

And no, the transition wasn't a ballsy move, it was a planned transition, which was carried out when they noticed how the sales go higher the less "thrash" you are, that's why The Black Album had been the highest selling album of their discography. It was a steady increase in sales from Master onwards (in the 80s).

What do you mean by success is success? No, its not. Selling more doesn't mean anything. ANYTHING. The point that more sales do not make you more talanted is unrefutable. Sales are not proportional to talent. Nothing you say can change that.

And why do you keep referring to the selling out? You keep dispersing from the topic. Whether or not you justify their selling out, it doesn't matter.

The bottom line is that Venom was more important to the Thrash scene than Metallica could ever hope to be. They influenced tons upon tons of bands, including Metallica themselves. The beauty of their sound did not rely on technical prowess. That is irrelevant, but still, I can name Thrash bands that can put Metallica to shame with their technicality any day of the week. Venom have more than the right to call Metallica anything they want or slander on any band in the scene that doesn't take their fancy. Venom was the most important band in making this scene what it was and what it is and if anyone has the right to slander Thrash bands, it's them.

[jimicrakcrn]

Venom do not have the right to just say what they please to Metallica. Metallica ISN'T a thrash band...Metallica WAS a thrash band in the begining. But they improved their sound so it would find its way into the headphones of a larger range of people. It doesnt matter if they arent as technical as venom...it doesnt matter if they werent as important as venom was on the thrash scene. Because Venom changed thrash...Metallica changed heavy music in general. They changed heavy music because they didnt rape the listener with a knife...because they didnt have blazing fast solo's that you cant hear a single note because its so fast...they made GOOD music that more people could enjoy regardless of what you listened to. EVERYONE can get into metallica...because that is how they are...they arent just out to gain metal junkies...they want everyone to be able to sit down and say 'this is some good sh*t' and start headbanging. RAP ARTISTS LISTEN TO METALLICA. How can one band ever be as influencial as metallica. Metallica changed...and they now appeal to more people. What is wrong with metal that appeals to more than just depressed pissed off teenagers? why cant metal appeal to preps...and punks...and little thugs on the corners of streets...why does it have to be so secluded. METAL IS GOOD and we all know this. so why does everyone get all bent out of shape when a metal band gets big...or gets the recognition they deserve...

[toolazytofindan]

Are you kidding me? No seriously. Was that a joke?

Soooo.. Metallica was a Thrash band at some point, eh? Well, you sure are knowledgable (end of sarcasm)

I have listed THIRTY bands that cite Venom as a primary influence, and all you've managed to come up are some basement philosophies?
Did you just make the claim that Metallica was the first bands to play with coherence and proper dynamics? Is it possible that you just made such a claim? Look here, kid, proper dynamics were perfected by Black Sabbath and Judas Priest before Metallica was a band. "Sabotage" anyone? "Sad Wings Of Destiny" anyone?
In case you were born yesterday, there were a lot of bands who played non-brutal accessible music before Metallica. Almost all Heavy Metal bands, from the first wave to the New Wave Of British Heavy Metal are a prime example of this. Your point was just destroyed. Because you have obviously forgotten that a genre called Heavy Metal also exists.
Rob Halford has performed ballads that put any Metallica attempt at melody to shame in 5 seconds. Shesh, the whole Hair Metal movement with its radio friendly principles has produced vocalist that can put Hetfield to shame in 2 seconds where orthodox singing is involved.
Melodic guitar playing was incorporated in all music long before Metallica arived, and it was far more prominent. Metallica was not a progressive band at any point in their career.

I never said that Metal can't appeal to whomever. If it does and they comprehend the mentality behind the genre, then good. But a band that compromises their sound to appeal to 13 year olds is an insult to the scene.

And.. "depressed, pissed off teenagers"? Wow, you are calling ME a depressed, pissed off teenager? Take another close look at the level of quality of my posts, compare it to 95% of the rest of the posts here and make an educated inference this time round. You have quite a nerve mister.
I never claimed Venom is more technical than Metallica. Being technical was never one of Venom's targets or principles. I said that there are loads of OTHER bands that are more technical than Metallica, but not Venom. But obviously, reading with comprehension is not one of your strong points.
"How can a band ever be as influential as Metallica?" Lol. You are so ignorant. Go back and re-read the bands I listed that Venom has influenced. Can Metallica make such a claim? No. SO there you go. THERE WERE MORE THRASH BANDS INFLUENCED BY VENOM IN THE EIGHTIES THAN HEAVY METAL BANDS INFLUENCED BY BLACK SABBATH IN THAT PERIOD. Can you even conceptualise what that means? Learn this two: THERE IS ALMOST NO IMPORTANT THRASH BAND IN THE 80s THAT CITES METALLICA AS A FIRSTMOST INFLUENCE.
And if you want melody in Thrash done right, why don't you make the transition to Speed and go with Annihilator? Or if you insist on Thrash Metal with a sense of Melody (without sounding like cry-babies), try Artillery.
Now that you've finished taking notes, get off the computer. I'm sure you have homework to do.

[MOTOPSYCHO]

toolazytofindan wrote:

What's so great about a band who writes Orion? I am one of those thrashers that will tell you that Orion does nothing for me in comparison with instrumental mind****s like Arc-Lite or Nosferatu. That I don't even consider songs like Sanitarium to be Thrash essentials, let alone must-have masterpieces. Thrash is not about pseudo melodic fade-out solos. It's about raping the listener with a knife... It's not a pretty genre by any means. It's about the ugly bare essense of riffs, the blazing solos, the attitude the dirt and the filth. It's about the endless thrash**** of "Take Their Lives", about the insane drumming of "Undead" and the skills in "Energetic Disassembly". It's about the 28 second hawk screams in "The Marshall Arts" and the riffage of "Curse The Gods" and "Piranha". It's about "Perish In Flames". It's certainly NOT about being less over the top and more tuned down. It's NOT about being less than the best that you can be or setting the example that if you turn down to "2" and incorporate pseudo - melo passages in Master Of Puppets you can make it in this scene.

And no, the transition wasn't a ballsy move, it was a planned transition, which was carried out when they noticed how the sales go higher the less "thrash" you are, that's why The Black Album had been the highest selling album of their discography. It was a steady increase in sales from Master onwards (in the 80s).

What do you mean by success is success? No, its not. Selling more doesn't mean anything. ANYTHING. The point that more sales do not make you more talanted is unrefutable. Sales are not proportional to talent. Nothing you say can change that.

And why do you keep referring to the selling out? You keep dispersing from the topic. Whether or not you justify their selling out, it doesn't matter.

The bottom line is that Venom was more important to the Thrash scene than Metallica could ever hope to be. They influenced tons upon tons of bands, including Metallica themselves. The beauty of their sound did not rely on technical prowess. That is irrelevant, but still, I can name Thrash bands that can put Metallica to shame with their technicality any day of the week. Venom have more than the right to call Metallica anything they want or slander on any band in the scene that doesn't take their fancy. Venom was the most important band in making this scene what it was and what it is and if anyone has the right to slander Thrash bands, it's them.

OMG for the 3rd time i never stated that Metallica were more important then Venom when it comes to Thrash, the only thing i said that came close to that statement is that Metallica have inspired and influenced many more musicans and bands then Venom could ever hope to do in 3 life times.
And im sorry that i cant write down the names and bands that are inspired by Metallica because i havnt got all ****ing day, but let me just put it to you like this, i guarantee every second guitarist and every second band you meet will have some form of Metallica influence in them, and lets just face it you show me a guitarist that cant play the riff to enter sandman, i'll show you an imaculately conceived child.

Maybe you ****s should open your minds and shut your mouths!

seekanddestroy wrote:
And toolazytofindan.... go **** a **** or something, ****ing ****

Flaming a member. Warning.

[jgk3]

You have failed to use any intellectual form of argument in your posts... You use Metallica is your only reference. You show no formal knowledge of musical theory, no decency to name bands other than Venom and Metallica in your posts even though toolazy and lycan listed at least 30 for you.

You are clearly the closedminded one. No, don't shut your mouth, but listen to your elders, because chances are, they know more than jack shit.

Metallica salvaged the riffs that they felt would bring them to fame and fortune... This was their success. They backstabbed the genre that they spawned from.

Obviously, you need to be a musician to write songs like them, but what makes them so accessible in the mainstream is the fact that they used their musicianship to conform their sound, so that it becomes pleasant to the ears of the average joe. What is so original about any of this? That interlude in Master of Puppets, pfft... That's not originality, that's just a push to appease the everyday listener with a nicely arranged melody... Tell me, do you think Metallica is the first to make a nicely arranged melody? If so, I won't refer you to 80s thrash bands, but to composers from the Classical Era way back in the mid 1700s!

The difference between what Metallica did and what all these bands that Lycan and Toolazy keep mentioning is that they said, "Fuck that shit, we're doing something new... We're gonna create something ugly, aggressive and at the same time, we're gonna let the feelings of this music possess us, seep into the souls of every fan and contributor to the genre...". I love thrash because this... It's openmindeded, it's raw and powerful. Once you feel it, you'll wish it never dies. Once you feel it, you will see this whole Venom and Metallica thing in perpective. I invite you to see it, to feel it. End your blasphemy now, go to your cd shop and try out these bands!

[jgk3]

note: I shouldn'tve said the Classical era thing, people have been arranging beautiful melodies since the dawn of music itself. anyway, nevermind that bit.

[MOTOPSYCHO]

You think i would say these harsh words towards Venom without hearing them with my own ears?, well your wrong i have heard Black Metal, my dad owns it, its really nothing spesh, fair enough for the era it was different and they were the genre starters of "black metal". I listen to so many forms of music it is not funny, I will list some of the bands that i listen to just so you can see my diversity in music, Fair enough i have my Megadeth, Iron Maiden, Pantera and Anthrax, but then i have Duran Duran, AC/DC, Deep Purple, Status Quo, Simple Minds, The Living End, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Creedence Clearwater Revival, The Beatles, The Who, Robert Johnson, Kiss, Fats Domino, Little Richard, Howlin Wolf, Nickleback, Jethro Tull, Run DMC, The Sex Pistols, Pennywise, Body Count, Nine Inch Nails and hell if i feel like a little African flute blues every now and then, so stick that shit up your close minded asses.

Here i'll list some bands/people metallica have influenced just for reference, Lamb Of God, Dave Bash, Trivium, NOFX, Sum 41, Fatality, Mick Thompson, Alice In Chains.

And not to mention the countless numbers of unknown aspiring heavy metal musicians.

[jimicrakcrn]

love thrash because this... It's openmindeded, it's raw and powerful. Once you feel it, you'll wish it never dies. Once you feel it, you will see this whole Venom and Metallica thing in perpective. I invite you to see it, to feel it. End your blasphemy now, go to your cd shop and try out these bands!

alright so I did my homework lazy...and this is what I came up with. maybe i can educate others as i've been educated

Black Sabbath wrote the first possible thrash riff...which was the intro riff to Symptom of the universe. Queen wrote stone cold crazy...that was heavy and fast for its time four years previous to symptom...but Sabbath made it metal.

Metallica did nothing for thrash...'hit the lights' was created by Hetfields former band Leather Charm. But Metallica did put metal on the charts...and on the radio. Yes some metal would occasionally be played but Metallica made it ok to play metal on the radio. Starting with their self titled album..and yes i know now that they sold out...not with the loads...but with their self titled... I was ignorant to say they didnt. Metallica's Self titled album has had every song on the entire album played on the radio...so why not make an album more radio friendly. Examples...load and reload. Metallica is simply just a good hard rock band. Metallica made good music and influenced alot of bands...but it doenst seeem to go any further.

The idea of thrash was brought by...Judas Priest...Sabbath and Motorheads overkill ep. And was later perfected by bands such as follows...

venom...
dark angel
slayer
sepultura
anthrax
and megadeth...there are others but these are the most recognizable.

My final point is Sabbath created metal...all aspects. Except for the washed up metal that is floating around today. They let it to bands like Venom to perfect certain aspects of it...thrash,death metal,and black metal which honestly...isnt all that different form the others but anyways. And they gave it to metallica to do with it as only metallica could. Metallica made metal that was edgy but would still get airplay...they shared metal with the world. So they didnt f*ck up totaly. They were and still are badasses...you cant deny them that. Best metal band ever? I'm starting to doubt but they're still a great band. So I took some notes...and this is what I came up with...all valid points.

Whether you hate metallica or not...you cant deny them the presence that they have in metal history. MOP was a masterpiece...and so was And justice for all...
and what metallica did is just what the bands of today are doing...salvaging riffs and making them better and up to todays standards. There is nothing left to salvage...because everything has been done before. So there needs to more pioneers...more people to say "F*ck that sh*t, we're doing something new." if metal is to survive and live on.

[MOTOPSYCHO]

jimicrakcrn wrote:

love thrash because this... It's openmindeded, it's raw and powerful. Once you feel it, you'll wish it never dies. Once you feel it, you will see this whole Venom and Metallica thing in perpective. I invite you to see it, to feel it. End your blasphemy now, go to your cd shop and try out these bands!

alright so I did my homework lazy...and this is what I came up with. maybe i can educate others as i've been educated

Black Sabbath wrote the first possible thrash riff...which was the intro riff to Symptom of the universe. Queen wrote stone cold crazy...that was heavy and fast for its time four years previous to symptom...but Sabbath made it metal.

Metallica did nothing for thrash...'hit the lights' was created by Hetfields former band Leather Charm. But Metallica did put metal on the charts...and on the radio. Yes some metal would occasionally be played but Metallica made it ok to play metal on the radio. Starting with their self titled album..and yes i know now that they sold out...not with the loads...but with their self titled... I was ignorant to say they didnt. Metallica's Self titled album has had every song on the entire album played on the radio...so why not make an album more radio friendly. Examples...load and reload. Metallica is simply just a good hard rock band. Metallica made good music and influenced alot of bands...but it doenst seeem to go any further.

The idea of thrash was brought by...Judas Priest...Sabbath and Motorheads overkill ep. And was later perfected by bands such as follows...

venom...
dark angel
slayer
sepultura
anthrax
and megadeth...there are others but these are the most recognizable.

My final point is Sabbath created metal...all aspects. Except for the washed up metal that is floating around today. They let it to bands like Venom to perfect certain aspects of it...thrash,death metal,and black metal which honestly...isnt all that different form the others but anyways. And they gave it to metallica to do with it as only metallica could. Metallica made metal that was edgy but would still get airplay...they shared metal with the world. So they didnt f*ck up totaly. They were and still are badasses...you cant deny them that. Best metal band ever? I'm starting to doubt but they're still a great band. So I took some notes...and this is what I came up with...all valid points.

Whether you hate metallica or not...you cant deny them the presence that they have in metal history. MOP was a masterpiece...and so was And justice for all...
and what metallica did is just what the bands of today are doing...salvaging riffs and making them better and up to todays standards. There is nothing left to salvage...because everything has been done before. So there needs to more pioneers...more people to say "F*ck that sh*t, we're doing something new." if metal is to survive and live on.

*HUGE APLAUSE*, you are the smartest person that has ever commented on this website, if i met you in person i would give you a slab of Australias greatest beer.

[toolazytofindan]

AHahahaha... Let me guess. You read the Wikipedia article? The one that says that the first thrash riff is the opening riff to Symptom Of The Universe?
Hahah, that is such an asinine arguement. So, one band writes a strong riff at some point in their career and that one random riff makes them the inventor of a whole genre?
Let me tell you something. I own the whole discographies of ALL THE BANDS you mentioned in your post above. So, let me start tackling your points one by one:

One riff doesn't constitute Black Sabbath the inventors of Thrash. If that was the case, I could journey to the 60s and start picking "The MC5" riffs, because they wrote PLENTY of riffs like that, BEFORE Black Sabbath. They laid down something like a protocol for those riffs. But guess what: I don't even consider "The MC5" to be the first Thrash band because a few riffs here and there don't make you Thrash. Keep in mind, "The MC5" wrote multiple Thrash riffs, before Sabbath. Since you are so willing to do homework now, go check and see that The MC5 predates Black Sabbath. (I'm genuinly proud that I got you looking things up, really - it shows I'm not TOTALLY wasting my time here)
Yes, The MC5 are obviously punk-ish but that's what Thrash is. The meeting of the sounds of punk and NWOBHM.

As about them being able to play rock on the radio, well big deal. Okay, so they became one of the most well - known metal bands of all time. And yes, they might have influenced several random bands when they started to play Hard Rock or country or whatever. Unfortunately the arrived too late for the Hard Rock scene, because its influences lie even earlier than those of Metal, thus making any Metallica influence on the scene pretty obsolete.

Your Thrash timeline is pathetic. Again, let me remind you taht I own all the releases from those bands, so let me go over them:


Judas Priest: I assume you en the pre-80s. So, no, not really. They had some ideas here and there, but Judas Priest and Motorhead were the primary influences to Speed Metal, not thrash. It's unrefutable that some Thrash bands had incorporated Motorhead and Judas Priest elements here and there (especially Motorhead elements), but neither Motorhead or Judas Priest had material thrashy enough credited as the first thrash bands. They were solid influences but so was Discharge and I don't see anyone crediting discharge as the first Thrash band. So, the title goes to Venom.

Venom: definately. Almost every Thrash band that emerged at that period were influenced by Venom.
Dark Angel: What the hell? You've jumped to 1985 allready? Killer band but in this case, irrelevant for the time period. The only bad release Dark Angel has is "Leave Scars" and bad for Dark Angel means average.

Slayer: SO, I see you're back to the early 80s. Good. Slayer, with their Venom influences did progress in terms of extreme sound at the time. Unfortunately Tom Warrior over in europe made them and anyone who made an attempt at extreme playing look like Maddona. Still, Slayer was incorporating Black Metal structures in their sound in Hell Awaits and were a large influence to Detah Metal with Reign In Blood.

Sepultura: Aha. Good band, Good Death - Thrash. Influential to Death Metal. They too were heavily influenced by Venom and Discharge. Igor Cavalera and I quote:

"We had a tape with Venom and Discharge and me and my brother would listen to it and it sounded like.. I don't know.. like an airplane landing in your head or something. And we were like: We gotta play... FAST!"

Anthrax: More american Thrash. Besides aiding in the emergence of Rap-metal though, they didn't do anything else for Metal.

Megadeth: Right. This band was progressive all throughout the 80s, as opposed to Metallica. Mustaine was perfecting his THrasg/Speed style until he perfected Speed in 1990. Great work.

So, your timeline although it contains some basic bands, it's haphazard and incomplete. You left out bands like Kreator and Hellhammer/Celtic Frost.. and tons of others. Perhaps you'd like to read our article on Thrash and see a complete timeline here (it's the first article after the introductory post):

http://forum.darklyrics.com/list.php?2

Sabbath did not create all aspects of Metal. Far from it. They aided in creating Heavy Metal and were an influence on doom and that's about it. It's stil a huge contribution but nowhere near creating all Metal. That's a huge statement and an impossible one too. Metal is, thanks to Judas Priest, one of the most diversified genres of music, if not THE MOST diversified.

And if you think that the different subgenres of metal don't differ, you need to check your hearing. Anyone who listens to Gamma Ray and Darkrthone and says they are similar.. well he's helpless.
So, no your points weren't valid as I just proved but good job on trying.
And finally, Metallica didn't pioneer anything except from compromising their sound to be played on the radio.

[toolazytofindan]

Damn, the link to our article didn't quite work. Anyway, follow the link I gave, click on "The Darklyrics Genres Project" and the articles are in there.

[toolazytofindan]

Oh and by the way, welcome jgk. What took you so long, man :P

[jgk3]

Thx toolazy.

What took me so long was reading all those blasphemous replies. :P

I think we've done a good job here. Now we need to build a DL military base here for peacekeeping.

[jgk3]

To Motopsycho, the list of bands you listen to are not suitable for providing an understanding of the thrash genre, but instead, for a basic understanding of rock. Now, if you are satisfied with this, then no problem, but I'll tell you something about Venom. I couldn't even properly appreciate it at first because I didn't listen to enough thrash bands that stemmed out of its influence. I wasn't in touch with Motorhead's music as much either, so there you go, I judged the music based on standards that had nothing to do with the genre. This is why I urge you to hear some of the acts that stemmed out from the original Venom influence.

If you weren't around to witness what Venom brought into the scene when it was still brand new, the next best thing (from my experience) that you can do is learn the timelines of the scene, see what came before, see what came after...

[jimicrakcrn]

meh...I did the best I could with my limited thrash knowledge...I did read your article though. Very interesting stuff... I stand corrected about black sabbath creating all metal. They didnt create it all...but the darkness and the lyrical style that people expect from metal...that defines metal...was brought by Sabbath. Metal is dark and edgy...it's music that was created to push the boundaries of society, am I right? They paved the way for bands like cannibal corpse...and slayer and countless others. Sabbath didnt create all metal...but the darkness that defines ALL branches of metal...originated with sabbath. If not...I'd like to know of who did. I dont remember Robert Plant claiming that he was the prince of darkness =P.

I still think that Metallica had a much stronger influence on todays musicians because they get tons of airplay. I was listening to the radio earlier and One was playing.. and that song could deffinetly inspire someone to pick up a guitar. It's melodic for most of the song...but the end is awesome stuff. The guitars with the double bass....It doesnt get much better than that. Todays bands were all influenced by Metallica in some way...the breakdown of 'one' has been re-defined by so many of todays bands that its almost boring now.

Listen to any band of today...and they will site Metallica as a big part of their influence. Trivium as stated earlier. Bullet For My Valentine, Shadows Fall, Ill nino,Unearth,In Flames are iffy...they cite playing with Metallica as a huge accomplishment and a big success...but they never come out and say it in their bio.36 Crazyfists. There are many others. They were influenced by Metallica because Metallica was played on the radio. These bands have talent. Metallica compromising their sound to fit radio standards...can be a good thing depending on how you look at it...because if it wasnt for Metallica...maybe we wouldnt have alot of the bands that we do today. Now like I said depending on how you look at it...maybe you view todays metal is crap.. I dont know. But by compromising their sound they were able to influence alot of bands that might not be around today without them.

what would happen to heavy music today if metallica hadnt been played on the radio. Because they dont play any thrash on any radio station ive heard. Metallica is as fast and thrashlike as it gets on the radio.`They were influencial not because of talent...or style...or anything like that. but because they were edgy and they got airplay. Metallica owes their popularity...and well their careers to the radio.Because Hetfield is good...but he's not great. Lars cant drum for crap... Rob is a good addition to the band but since bob rock wrote all of st.angers basslines...we havent seen what he will bring to metallica. and kirk is just...well kirks just kirk...he plays his solo's with alot of emotion. and he has made alot of good solo's...they used to be kind of badass..but they're old...and they've got kids...and they're all married...they just arent metal anymore i gues. i stand corrected on that as well. maybe their new album will be a huge comeback...

THe labels want something they can sell...so most bands today will sellout in some way. Trivium has cut most of their throaty vocals that seperated trivium from the rest of the nu-metal hogwash...and they're going to focus on his singing and growls, and not the screams that made up most of triviums sound. compromising already...i really liked matts screams to.

Metallica did nothing unless you listen to the mainstream bands of today. If you dont then metallica will always just be ok because you cant see the influence they have had on bands. Metallica started compromising...and today almost every band will compromise their sound to sell records. if you dont believe me...listen to staind...if anyone has ever soldout in this industry...its staind. Everything is business...nobody focuses on the music anymore. the ones that do...you never hear about. its sad

I'm going to give thrash a chance...not only becaue i pre-judged the genre but because i'm a guitarist...i want to be able to play anything and be good at it. so thanks to all the people that pissed me off...it opened up my eyes to something good that i know nothing about
you guys rock

[jimicrakcrn]

damnit that wasnt supposed to be red...

[jgk3]

heavy music does not need airplay to survive. Airplay just puts money in the pockets of businessmen. Music isn't about businessmen, it's a feeling and lifestyle. Sure, we need record companies to keep things in circulation, but we can do without HMV and MTV deciding what sells you know.

[jgk3]

anyhow, I'm glad to hear you're gonna give a shot for thrash

[jimicrakcrn]

true,it doesnt need airplay to survive. But at the time when heavy music was at its peak...there was no internet. and you couldnt just download the stuff like you can now

[jgk3]

I don't download my music. I like collecting my cds.

[Dlawso]

I dont understand these people that say that you must donwtune and play so fast it sounds like a ****ing mess, and the drummer must double tap the drums through the whole song... I think its ****ing corny, and when 40 year old men, stands on a stage doing that... Fuck off, man.

[Dlawso]

And by the way.... THRASH IS THE SHIT!!!!!

[Abby123456]

What a load of boll*x, Metallica F*cking rule way more than Venom!!! Metallica influence way more people than Venom!!They have their heads up there arses!

[jimicrakcrn]

Abby123456 wrote:

What a load of boll*x, Metallica F*cking rule way more than Venom!!! Metallica influence way more people than Venom!!They have their heads up there arses!

Read the back and forth man!!!
1.Metallica was in fact influenced by Venom
2.Metallica changed their sound, and everything to appeal to more people. therefore influencing all your bands.
3.Metallica was good...but they aren't what they used to be. They influenced people because they got played on the radio...
4.You wont hear anything about Venom because Venom has stayed true to what they do...and they're not in it for record sales or appeal. They make music simple as that.They wont compromise for anything...money or airplay

Metallica is talented...and no doubt they have influenced alot of people. But it was a choice...as stated earlier...they realized that the less thrash they were...the more their record sales went up and the bigger they became. There really isnt anything to say that hasnt been said...

[ozzisgod]

Metallica708 wrote:

maybe he shouldn't have ripped off metallica then

Metallica - Black Album
Venom - Metal Black

See where i'm coming from?

Metallica - Black Album (1991)
Venom - Black Metal (1982?)

see where i'm coming from? and alos venom has influenced the hundreds of shitty black metal bands out there . . . but also a lot of the kickest ass metal bands ever!

*anti spam check

[pinion18]

jimicrakcrn wrote:

meh...I did the best I could with my limited thrash knowledge...I did read your article though. Very interesting stuff... I stand corrected about black sabbath creating all metal. They didnt create it all...but the darkness and the lyrical style that people expect from metal...that defines metal...was brought by Sabbath. Metal is dark and edgy...it's music that was created to push the boundaries of society, am I right? They paved the way for bands like cannibal corpse...and slayer and countless others. Sabbath didnt create all metal...but the darkness that defines ALL branches of metal...originated with sabbath. If not...I'd like to know of who did. I dont remember Robert Plant claiming that he was the prince of darkness =P.

I still think that Metallica had a much stronger influence on todays musicians because they get tons of airplay. I was listening to the radio earlier and One was playing.. and that song could deffinetly inspire someone to pick up a guitar. It's melodic for most of the song...but the end is awesome stuff. The guitars with the double bass....It doesnt get much better than that. Todays bands were all influenced by Metallica in some way...the breakdown of 'one' has been re-defined by so many of todays bands that its almost boring now.

Listen to any band of today...and they will site Metallica as a big part of their influence. Trivium as stated earlier. Bullet For My Valentine, Shadows Fall, Ill nino,Unearth,In Flames are iffy...they cite playing with Metallica as a huge accomplishment and a big success...but they never come out and say it in their bio.36 Crazyfists. There are many others. They were influenced by Metallica because Metallica was played on the radio. These bands have talent. Metallica compromising their sound to fit radio standards...can be a good thing depending on how you look at it...because if it wasnt for Metallica...maybe we wouldnt have alot of the bands that we do today. Now like I said depending on how you look at it...maybe you view todays metal is crap.. I dont know. But by compromising their sound they were able to influence alot of bands that might not be around today without them.

what would happen to heavy music today if metallica hadnt been played on the radio. Because they dont play any thrash on any radio station ive heard. Metallica is as fast and thrashlike as it gets on the radio.`They were influencial not because of talent...or style...or anything like that. but because they were edgy and they got airplay. Metallica owes their popularity...and well their careers to the radio.Because Hetfield is good...but he's not great. Lars cant drum for crap... Rob is a good addition to the band but since bob rock wrote all of st.angers basslines...we havent seen what he will bring to metallica. and kirk is just...well kirks just kirk...he plays his solo's with alot of emotion. and he has made alot of good solo's...they used to be kind of badass..but they're old...and they've got kids...and they're all married...they just arent metal anymore i gues. i stand corrected on that as well. maybe their new album will be a huge comeback...

THe labels want something they can sell...so most bands today will sellout in some way. Trivium has cut most of their throaty vocals that seperated trivium from the rest of the nu-metal hogwash...and they're going to focus on his singing and growls, and not the screams that made up most of triviums sound. compromising already...i really liked matts screams to.

Metallica did nothing unless you listen to the mainstream bands of today. If you dont then metallica will always just be ok because you cant see the influence they have had on bands. Metallica started compromising...and today almost every band will compromise their sound to sell records. if you dont believe me...listen to staind...if anyone has ever soldout in this industry...its staind. Everything is business...nobody focuses on the music anymore. the ones that do...you never hear about. its sad

I'm going to give thrash a chance...not only becaue i pre-judged the genre but because i'm a guitarist...i want to be able to play anything and be good at it. so thanks to all the people that pissed me off...it opened up my eyes to something good that i know nothing about
you guys rock

Every band of today has been influenced by Metallica?
Your excessively long post might have been worth reading if you hadn't made that error.

[Lycanthropos]

Okay now that this appears to be over I will reveal an ace waiteing in hiding that never was used.

Cronos made 2 very credible (compared to the insults slung at Venom) albums in 1990 and 1993. He actually sings well. Guitar solos have technicality. Songs are well composed within a bare-bones Heavy Metal framework and maturely written. Certainly not the influential thrash from hell of Venom.

So this is just for the argument, "all they did was play the same shitty thrash." You're wrong because Cronos makes credible Heavy Metal too. There was a third album recorded but he went back into Venom before it was released.

I enjoy these two albums more than anything Metallica did from Black on. (of course that's just an opinion)

Anyways like I said in the very first post I made: You people need to learn more from others rather than argue with your supposed "knowledge." I mean even if you are 20. If you don't have your shit down don't act like it. There's quite a history and you can't half-ass it or not even know about it and then try and throw your weight around. It won't work because you don't weigh anything yet.

[jgk3]

I haven't heard any of those Lycan... Do you know where I can find em?

[BonhamIsGod]

Considering MetallicA has publicised this guys shitty band youd think he'd be more grateful, this Cronos fag may be able to sing like he's got a cock in his mouth but he has no room to talk of the all mighty MetallicA in such a way, KILL CRONOS!!!!

[jgk3]

Read the relevant replies that have been made here or take your homosexual thoughts elsewhere

[chriskelly]

venom sucks a$$ and to even compare them to metallica you got to me one messed up dude. u got one of if not the best metal bands of the the 80s and 90s(metallica) which almost everyone knows who they are and u got a frigggin band that sucks out loud and no1 knows who they are. U are one of the most stupidest people in the universe and i emphasise that because ur so messed up!!!!.....and no one cares about venom i think they are so horrible and u are a stupid stupid stupid man!!!!! or whatever u may be!

[jgk3]

ditto to my last past, minus the "take your homosexual thoughts elsewhere.

[ThyFukkingLord]

BonhamIsGod wrote:

Considering MetallicA has publicised this guys shitty band youd think he'd be more grateful, this Cronos fag may be able to sing like he's got a cock in his mouth but he has no room to talk of the all mighty MetallicA in such a way, KILL CRONOS!!!!

Dude, did you just purchase your first Metal album (which probably was a Metallica one) last week at Walmart or something? Metallica hasn't been relevant to Metal since 1991 roughly. And to some people that would be generous to acknowledge them that far even. Cronos nor Venom for that matter have to respect Metallica. Venom made the table that bands like Overkill, Metallica, Slayer.....etc. ate off of through the 80's in Thrash Metal. Cronos used to respect Metallica a lot back in the 80's, back when they were still relevant to Metal and didn't sell out. That's why Venom was more than happy to take them along on tours to open for them. But if you're going to hate Cronos for what he said about Metallica today, then I got news for you, start hating the Metal scene in general then. Mainly because whether you're aware of it or not, his opinion is a popular one on Metallica. They're old news, and never were the very best in Thrash Metal anyway. They just were great for a brief time.

[ThyFukkingLord]

chriskelly wrote:

venom sucks a$$ and to even compare them to metallica you got to me one messed up dude. u got one of if not the best metal bands of the the 80s and 90s(metallica) which almost everyone knows who they are and u got a frigggin band that sucks out loud and no1 knows who they are. U are one of the most stupidest people in the universe and i emphasise that because ur so messed up!!!!.....and no one cares about venom i think they are so horrible and u are a stupid stupid stupid man!!!!! or whatever u may be!

You're right, comparing Venom to Metallica is a waste of time. Venom influenced the genre to exist Metallica started off in. Venom is a much more covered and respected band to the progression of underground Metal than Metallica. And Venom never sold out Metal and turned their back on it like Metallica did. Yep, no comparison here at all. Just because people at your middle school may not know who Venom is because they're not on VH1/MTV or played on the radio, doesn't mean people don't know Venom is nor does it mean no one cares about them. Venom influenced Metal in ways bands like Metallica can only dream of. Venom is still a relevant band to extreme Metal today and where it's at. Venom may not be as technical as Metallica was in the studio. But then again, since when did playing Thrash Metal ever require one to be technical and super talented?

[UnDarkGuitar]

damn people... if you dont know who Venom is... and if you didnt know that Venom influenced Metalica... then something is wrong with you.

You cannot compare those 2 bands... because A. Metallica sold out. B. Venom is Black Metal/Thrash Metallica is not C. Metallica is more popular and EVERY one knows who they are even if they dont listen to them.

as for the comment on satanism, the thing that Cronos said... that was not satanism that was Luciferion. Satanism is the darker side of Luciferion which is pure evil. Luciferion is worshiping the fallen angel, not the beast.

-Jeff

[BonhamIsGod]

In interviews Lars has said he hates the term thrash metal and that it is not an adjective to be used with metallica, that was said in 85' when some of you people claim metallica were not sell outs. The term sell out is stupid and overused. So basically you guys sit at home on your computers, wait to see what band use to be "undergound" but now are well known and have sucess and then you try to put them down and say they sold out. If anyone or anybody are "sell outs" its you ****ers, you are so obsessed at making sure bands do you want them to do and what their doing wrong you forget the important thing, the music, yes St. Anger blows but to me it sounds no different than that Black metal shit by venom so maybe you should look at venom sucking instead of Metallica.

[Lycanthropos]

Actually, BonhamIsGod, compare "Metal Black" to St. Anger and you can see clearly that Metal Black is something like what Metallica wishes St. Anger was. A simple in-your-face slaughterfest, harsh but catchy, unrelenting asskicking by an old legendary band. Except Venom suceeded. And I'll take the production on Metal Black over St. Anger any day, year, or millenium.

PS No one who loves Venom is going to "look at them sucking." But thanks for your advice. You on the other hand could easily be converted were you to see Venom live say. And I wouldn't even hate you for liking Metallica. But one day you would go, "Hey Venom is Bigger."

[metallicarulz69]

this reminds of that time vemon fought a turtle dove

[Lycanthropos]

"this reminds me of that time venom fought a turtle dove"

yes Metallica is quite analogous to a turtle dove, but why would you say that when your name is MeTaLLiCaRuLz69OMG111!!!l
olzzors ?

[The antechrist]

Why the **** are you on a venom page if your just here to bash it go listen to you pussy fagotry like st anger metallica arent good anymore the new stuff sucks balls master of puppets, kill em all, ride the lightning, and justice for all were they're only good ones.

[ThyFukkingLord]

BonhamIsGod wrote:

In interviews Lars has said he hates the term thrash metal and that it is not an adjective to be used with metallica, that was said in 85' when some of you people claim metallica were not sell outs. The term sell out is stupid and overused. So basically you guys sit at home on your computers, wait to see what band use to be "undergound" but now are well known and have sucess and then you try to put them down and say they sold out. If anyone or anybody are "sell outs" its you ****ers, you are so obsessed at making sure bands do you want them to do and what their doing wrong you forget the important thing, the music, yes St. Anger blows but to me it sounds no different than that Black metal shit by venom so maybe you should look at venom sucking instead of Metallica.

BONHAMISGOD, first of all you don't know me. So stop sitting there trying to analyze my words like you know what I'm thinking and know where I'm coming from. Second of all, I have no issue with Metallica leaving Metal if they felt they could do no more with it. They didn't feel they could outdo themselves past "...And Justice For All" so they decided to re-invent themselves and their sound. Metallica made a mature decision to stop playing Metal for the right reasons. Reasons might I add, more Metal bands should consider more often instead of just existing and releasing albums no one really wants to hear. You can't be on top forever and keep out doing yourself. Also I don't give a *hit if Lars has a problem with the term "Thrash Metal" or not. How is that relevant to anything? It doesn't change the fact that in the early days of Metallica that is what Metallica played. If he had an issue with the band being called such a thing, then he should have strongly recommended that the band re-direct their course of making music in the studio. He could do that after all, since he was one of the two primary decisions makers in the band and founders of the band.

I didn't have an issue with Metallica up until they claimed Metal was dead after they changed their music and image. Basically saying, that if they don't play Metal there is no Metal at all. They had nuts like church bells to say something like that. I like a lot of material on "Load" and "Reload" personally. However, those albums do not personify Metallica. And judging them within the spectrum of what they are and offer, they're not bad if you can refrain from comparing it to old Metallica while listening to it. And comparing the endeavors Metallica did on "St. Anger" to what Venom did on "Black Metal" in any regard, even if it is a stupid analogy, is just that.....STUPID. There's nothing you can base a logical analogy on between the two of them nor realistically speaking.Venom has never played what's popular in Metal at the time, and they've always done what they wanted, when they wanted and how they wanted. At the end of the day I respect Venom a hell of a lot more than I respect Metallica. Metallica has more greed within them than any ten men need. I realized I lived too long when I saw Metallica cover "Little Drummer Boy."

[scottishmob]

Looking through this stuff was such a goddamn headache...

[ST-XeMo]

damn right it was lol

[minimanson]

BonhamIsGod wrote:

Considering MetallicA has publicised this guys shitty band youd think he'd be more grateful, this Cronos fag may be able to sing like he's got a cock in his mouth but he has no room to talk of the all mighty MetallicA in such a way, KILL CRONOS!!!!

you do infact realise that Metallica only exist becuase of Venom?

[metallica_1993]

"We could even see if Metallica wanted to open for us. Actually, we couldn't do that because they're crap (laughs). I think they need to take the word 'metal' out of the name."



U piece of useless shyt... metallica rulez and f u cant apreciate it, then if i see u on the streets of NYC... Ill whoop ur @$$!!!!!

[IbanezxXx]

u guys need 2 realize metallica came after venom and u ever think that they were influenced by em, and even if not venom had a major impact, so venom effected metallica, so respect em and stfu

[IbanezxXx]

and who cares if Cronos doesnt like metallica, he can have an have a taste in music, and it doesn't include metallica get over it

[BlackMagic666]

hey duechbags, i agree w/ ibanez, if it wasnt for venom you wouldnt be here jacking off to hammet, i hope you know metallica was only good untill their 5th album, after that their hair fell of and so did their talent. Its disgusting how you guys cast down venom, god fathers of all heavy metal, not just black metal, if it wasnt for venom, you wouldnt have metallica. And have any of you listened to them? their chords are ingenious, they are amazing at what they do, so stop listenen to simple plan and get a ****ing brain.

And wtf is with you ppl knowing shit about satanism...
www.churchofsatan.com i think thats the sight, actually look at something before you bash it. its about being free-willed, not saying RAW IM THE ANTI-CHRIST, cronos is a ****ing legend of rock, and if metallica heard what cronos said about them, they'd beleive him and release another ride the lightning, have you ppl listen to old metallica? or do you hear old and think load/reload?

[nickdude]

lol at you fags saying venom have been around longer than metallica, that just means metallica have more successful than them in a shorter period of time, they are most definitely not legendary, it doesnt count if everyone comes along and does a better job than you at what you started

[Jawshuwa]

What the **** is all of this "Metallica wouldn't exist if it weren't for Venom" bullshit ? Did you guys not read the article ? Cronos -- such an original name...cough, cough -- said Venom was a CATALYST for black metal, meaning he helped speed up its genesis. Black metal would've been done anyway without Venom, just possibly not on the same damn day. Some moron said Kill 'Em All was basically all Venom-influenced; really now...I hear more Diamond Head in Kill 'Em All than any other band. Let's not forget that Kill 'Em All was a good album, and Venom has yet to produce any worth mentioning.

All in all, Metallica would never open for this mediocre band; how long has it been since they were a support band anyway ?

[Jawshuwa]

Sorry for the double-post, but something caught my eye that made me giggle a little inside...

"hey duechbags, i agree w/ ibanez, if it wasnt for venom you wouldnt be here jacking off to hammet"

Love the spelling, by the way. Anywho -- if it weren't for Satriani, I probably wouldn't be jacking off to Hammett, whom I don't even think is all that impressive anyway. Pentatonics and the blues scale get a little repetitive, but hey, it's better than what Venom puts out.

[Ed Hunter]

Daffodil Lament wrote:

Cronos said 'A Good Day To Die'
The name of the song is actually 'A Fine Day To Die'
Just thought I'd point that out, I thought it was amusing.

'A Fine Day To Die' is by Bathory.

[ThyFukkingLord]

nickdude wrote:

lol at you fags saying venom have been around longer than metallica, that just means metallica have more successful than them in a shorter period of time, they are most definitely not legendary, it doesnt count if everyone comes along and does a better job than you at what you started

How exactly are we distinguishing who is better between Venom and Metallica? What are we basing that on? Quiet as it is kept Venom is a very wealthy band and along with other acts like Judas Priest, Motorhead and Iron Maiden for instance pioneered the whole arena Metal phenomenon. It took Metallica from the release of "Kill'em All" to the release of the black album, that's eight years by the way, to get the recognition of popularity Venom was a custom to for years. Also, comparing Venom and Metallica talent wise is as stupid as it is funny. Venom was one of the top five most influential bands to Metallica, but it never came out in the studio for anything they released. So Metallica didn't perfect anything Venom did first.

Venom still to this day continues to influence bands that want to play Thrash Metal. I guarantee you by the time it's all said and done and Metal is laid to rest, Venom will be remembered long over Metallica. Anyone that thinks Metallica's name is more legendary in the world of Metal over Venom's doesn't know what's going on.

[ThyFukkingLord]

Jawshuwa wrote:

What the **** is all of this "Metallica wouldn't exist if it weren't for Venom" bullshit ? Did you guys not read the article ? Cronos -- such an original name...cough, cough -- said Venom was a CATALYST for black metal, meaning he helped speed up its genesis. Black metal would've been done anyway without Venom, just possibly not on the same damn day. Some moron said Kill 'Em All was basically all Venom-influenced; really now...I hear more Diamond Head in Kill 'Em All than any other band. Let's not forget that Kill 'Em All was a good album, and Venom has yet to produce any worth mentioning.

All in all, Metallica would never open for this mediocre band; how long has it been since they were a support band anyway ?

Jawshuwa wrote:

What the **** is all of this "Metallica wouldn't exist if it weren't for Venom" bullshit ? Did you guys not read the article ? Cronos -- such an original name...cough, cough -- said Venom was a CATALYST for black metal, meaning he helped speed up its genesis. Black metal would've been done anyway without Venom, just possibly not on the same damn day. Some moron said Kill 'Em All was basically all Venom-influenced; really now...I hear more Diamond Head in Kill 'Em All than any other band. Let's not forget that Kill 'Em All was a good album, and Venom has yet to produce any worth mentioning.

All in all, Metallica would never open for this mediocre band; how long has it been since they were a support band anyway ?

Well, what we have here is a simple case of YOU merely favoring Metallica over Venom, so you're a little blind to the facts. But don't worry, I'm going to guide you to the light.

First of all, the only REAL legit reason Venom gets mentioned in a Black Metal conversation is because they coined the term. If they had never named an album and song "Black Metal" no one would mention them today in a Black Metal conversation, and Cronos wouldn't mention them in that breath either. I say this to make the point that Venom as the REAL ****ing world knows was way more influential to the Thrash Metal scene. There isn't a Thrash Metal band out there I assure you that didn't take something from Venom along the way. Venom was the first Thrash Metal band ever. "Welcome To Hell" got labeled many things years ago when it got first got released. It was called "Punk/Metal" and "Heavy Metal"....etc. but that's because there was no such thing as Thrash Metal yet. At the end of the day today, it's a Thrash Metal album obviously. "Kill'em All" musically and talent wise might be the greater album, but certainly not the more influential album compared to any of the first three Venom albums, especially "Welcome To Hell."

So just because "Welcome To Hell" did not appeal to you musically specifically, doesn't mean it's not worth acknowledging as a highly pivotal and influential album to where Metal is today. And if Venom went on a tour today with Metallica, I assure you Venom would headline. Who in their right mind would put Metallica over anyone on a bill that supports Metal when Metallica doesn't even play it anymore? Fact is Venom proved you don't have to be the most skilled musicians in the world to make it in Metal as legends and to make an immortal impact.

[Slayer_Guy]

everyone who reads this do me a favour and listen to "thyfukkinglord" he knows exactly what he's talking about

[napalm_scum]

Metallica708 wrote:

maybe he shouldn't have ripped off metallica then

Metallica - Black Album (1991)
Venom - Metal Black (2006)

See where i'm coming from?

Venom - Black Metal (1982)

[FireBallBoy]

Venom, it's an interesting one this, I mean Conrad 'Cronos' Lant (look 'Lant' up in the dictionary, it's stale urine) must surely be talking tongue-in-cheek when he refers to Metallica as 'crap'. If Cronos is a talented musician he will without doubt recognise that Metallica are not 'crap' in this respect, if he considers himself to be a talented song writer then surely he will recognise other talented song writers, and so he cannot be referring to Metallic as 'crap' in this respect either. No, it must have been tongue-in-cheek, otherwise it is akin to a ropey old painter and decorator putting down the brush work of Da Vinci, or Monet.

When I was a kid of about 12 I bought Black Metal 3 years after it was released, then I went out and bought Welcome to Hell (the first album) I loved them, but as I grew and became a musician myself I could hear that in truth the skill level was pretty. I then discovered that Venom got signed to the record company that Cronos was working for as a tape engineer, I lost all respect for Venom after that, I mean it stinks of rotten fish when a band gets signed to a label that one them is ****ing employed by.

Though having said that I haved always had an interest in Venom, and years later I bought 'Resurrection' and man, it wasn't bad, good production, songs were alright too. But why the hell did it take so long to get it sounding tight, powerful and extreme without sounding like the whole ****ing band were falling down a flight of stairs while playing at the same time.

Just heard Metal Black, and what a dire production, it could have been recorded on a 4 track portable studio. I have often thought Cronos was almost showing some promise as a Satanic lyricist, but most of the time his lyrics are pretty cringe-worthy, bordering on immature and amateurish. No, he has no right to refer to Metallica as 'crap'.

[FireBallBoy]

Venom, it's an interesting one this, I mean Conrad 'Cronos' Lant (look 'Lant' up in the dictionary, it's stale urine) must surely be talking tongue-in-cheek when he refers to Metallica as 'crap'. If Cronos is a talented musician he will without doubt recognise that Metallica are not 'crap' in this respect, if he considers himself to be a talented song writer then surely he will recognise other talented song writers, and so he cannot be referring to Metallic as 'crap' in this respect either. No, it must have been tongue-in-cheek, otherwise it is akin to a ropey old painter and decorator putting down the brush work of Da Vinci, or Monet.

When I was a kid of about 12 I bought Black Metal 3 years after it was released, then I went out and bought Welcome to Hell (the first album) I loved them, but as I grew and became a musician myself I could hear that in truth the skill level was pretty low. I then discovered that Venom got signed to the record company that Cronos was working for as a tape engineer, I lost all respect for Venom after that, I mean it stinks of rotten fish when a band gets signed to a label that one them is ****ing employed by.

Though having said that I haved always had an interest in Venom, and years later I bought 'Resurrection' and man, it wasn't bad, good production, songs were alright too. But why the hell did it take so long to get it sounding tight, powerful and extreme without sounding like the whole ****ing band were falling down a flight of stairs while playing at the same time.

Just heard Metal Black, and what a dire production, it could have been recorded on a 4 track portable studio. I have often thought Cronos was almost showing some promise as a Satanic lyricist, but most of the time his lyrics are pretty cringe-worthy, bordering on immature and amateurish. No, he has no right to refer to Metallica as 'crap'.

[ThyFukkingLord]

Fireballboy.....I presume you lack the ability to deduce the obvious. Cronos was not referring to Metallica as a whole always sucking since their first album. He was referring to the Metallica of today few and far between respect. Hence the reason he said they need to take the portion of their name that spells "Metal" out, because they're not Metal anymore and as a result they suck.

As for Venom's lyrical value. Well, every so often Venom could come up with a really good song that was a total package as good musically as it was insightful lyrically. But this occurence was not frequent. Venom were not people that actually lived the Satanic lifestyle. They just were really good at convincing people they did. Anything they know about Satanism, probably 90% of it was conjured up from watching old horror movies. Venom's lyrics were just shock value material for the most part, written by with a bit of assistance from a rhyme scheme volume I edition book. So if you're expecting Venom/Cronos to write lyrics as detailed from the standpoint of an outsider as opposed to someone that truly is a Satanist like Jon Nodtveidt of Dissection, well....all I can say is you got a better chance of meeting Amelia Earhart.

[FireBallBoy]

ThyFukkingLord, I still can't see how it's obvious that Cronos is talking about latter day Metallica alone, he just says 'they're crap', and his comment seems pretty general. Anyway, I like your reply. I agree with you about the lyrics, perhaps it's wise to not expect too much from ol' Cronos in this respect.

[extrememetal129]

First things first, I don't know whether venom invented thrash metal
or not, but they definitely coined the term black metal. I wouldn't
say that they perfectly invented black metal because Bathory are the
real inventors of black metal. I say this with taking nothing away
from venom coz they are one of the influential band in the metal world. I used to really like their early albums but as I became more
matured and looked at their lyrics I found nothing special. I began
to realize that they didn't even play true Black metal. Then I started listening to Bathory, Burzum, Mayhem, Darkthrone, Immortal, Gorgoroth, Lord Belial, etc. and I came to understand the fact that
the above bands were much more talented that venom. Yeah, they influenced many, many bands to pick up instruments and create brutal
metal so have many bands like Diamond head, Motorhead, Iron Maiden,
Slayer, Kreator, early Metallica, early Megadeth, early Sepultura,
so on and so on. It was songs like Metallica's Master of Puppets,
Salyer's Angel of death, Sepultura's Arise and Death's Scavenger of
human sorrow that made me pick up guitar and play ****ing metal.


And as far as metallica goes, I don't even consider them a thrash band even the early metallca I just refer to them as a metal band.
It's because they only produced one all out thrashy album Kill 'em all. Rest of their albums had some elements of thrash but they were
not completely thrash. Although they've become shit after n justice for all but you just can't say that they didn't have any impact on the genre. They opened the door for many bands to mainstream music. Had there not been metallica, would Slayer exist today?
because they were just a cover band who covered Judas Priest and
Iron Maiden. It was then when they saw metallica on stage and began
to make their own songs.
Don't bash MoP because it's a metal masterpiece. Just because the band has become shit doesn't mean that
it undermines the greatness of Mop. I saw that someone wrote that Mop
reminds him of comercialization. That's total bullshit. This album
came way before they sold out.
and st. anger was them trying to go to their thrash days. It was
horribly underproduced. Lyrics, guitar works, drumming were all shit.
They didn't put in any solos. Someone should have told them in thrash, solos are necessities. The only song I like was Unnamed feeling. But at least it was better that Load, Reload, because st. anger
was quite heavy.

[extrememetal129]

I would like to add something more. I saw the bands up and now I'm going to write about them.

Judas Priest: A great heavy/speed metal band. One of the greatest
metal band in the world. They and bands like Motorhead, Iron maiden,
Venom, Diamond head, etc. inspired kids to creat brutal and fast metal to destroy glam. Their disappointing album was Turbo. In my opinion they sold out with that album but nevertheless a great band to listen to especially their heavy stuff.

Venom: An influential metal band. It also was responsible in giving
birth to thrash metal and coined the term 'Black Metal'.
I, really, used to dig their early albums but their latter albums
disappointed me. Then I went to look after real black metal and
the Norwegian Black metal scene was my saviour. I think they are given too much credit just like Black Sabbath are given too
much credit for developing heavy metal.

Slayer: A band that has always stay true to their roots unlike Metallica and Megadeth. Their album "Reign in blood", single handedly
gave birth to death metal. The only bitter thing is that they haven't
produced a great album after Season in the abyss.

Sepultura: A Brazilian thrash metal band. Their "Bestial Devastation", "Morbid Vision" and "Beneath the remains" make me
wanna headbang. But they also sold out. You also forget to mention Motorhead, slayer and metallica as thier inspirers.

[extrememetal129]

Anthrax: Considered one of the big 4 of thrash, but they didn't influence more than other 3. Again their early records were beast. Like the guy said, they invented rap metal which I don't think is
the real metal.

Megadeth: They are a great band eventhough Mustaine is such a dick. Like most of the bands above, their early albums were masterpiece. But they also changed their sound. Risk has to be the lowest point in their career.

All my message to people over here who want to listen to real metal, go and listen to Burzum, Mayhem, Immortal, Darkthrone,
Bathory, etc. I bet you these bands are 5 times better than Venom.

And Cannibal corpse have also sold out. Listen to Carcass, Deicide, Suffocation, Hate Eternal, Nile,etc. for real death metal.

Rock on, all metalheads.