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Joel McIver Critiques 'Chinese Democracy'

artist: guns n roses date: 11/28/2008 category: press releases
rating: 0 / votes: 0 

British journalist / author Joel McIver, whose upcoming book length feature "The 100 Greatest Metal Guitarists" is scheduled for release during January 2009 through Jawbone Press, has penned a guest feature regarding Guns N' Roses' new album "Chinese Democracy" for Lucem Fero. The following is an excerpt:

"The problem here is that Axl has had too long to fool around in the studio, with no guiding hand to push him in the right direction. With a Rick Rubin or a Jim Steinman at the controls, Waxl might have found a coherent theme and a consistent sound across the songs: as it is, the album is unfocused and doesn't really know where it's going or what to do when it gets there. Axl has come up with some decent-ish songs (“Better” and the title track are the obvious examples) but there are too many tunes that try and fail to sound like "Appetite for Destruction"-era Guns for us to take them seriously.

"The power ballads that make up about a third of the album want so badly to be “November Rain” that it h urts -- and the sub-industrial guitar tone of many other tracks sounds a decade old. Finally, the arrogance of including a snatch of Martin Luther King's “I have a dream” speech as an audio sample is breathtaking, and not in a good way.

"Time to reform the "Appetite" line-up, tour the world and retire, Axl. "Chinese Democracy" is an embarrassment."

To access the entire feature, go to Lucemfero.com.

POSTED: 11/28/2008 - 08:54 am
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comments policy  40  comments posted, 2 removed | this article is 95% spam-free
     
aaciseric wrote on 11/28/2008 - 09:05 am / quote |
Wow, I managed to disagree with every point he made there.
     
ironBLSmaiden wrote on 11/28/2008 - 10:32 am / quote |
ouch
     
highwind5150 wrote on 11/28/2008 - 10:34 am / quote |
I managed to agree with almost every point. lol oh well. It's cool. I just don't think that this album would have gotten half the exposure it's getting if it was named something like Axl's band. Some of the ballads are good tho.
     
GuilT wrote on 11/28/2008 - 10:38 am / quote |
Axl did not set out to sound like Appetite, this guy is a complete douche. The brilliance of this album is it's versatility, it doesn't need direction, and it doesn't subscribe to a "theme", it's all over the place and that was the point. Axl experimented with all kinds of different soundscapes. People have such a problem with the album because it took so long to make, but if you forget all that and judge based on it's own merits without comparing it to Appetite, then this a very good effort by GNR. Nothing on this album comes close to what Appetite was, and it was never intented to.
     
GuilT wrote on 11/28/2008 - 10:50 am / quote |
You goddamn idiots compare it to Appetite, for years and years Axl wanted to bury Appetite, he wanted to get away from that album, that's where the Illusion discs come from. Chinese Democracy is a great album on it's own, and would have done just as good if it were an Axl solo album, and everyone knew it pretty much is yet it continues to sell big, go figure. It very much is a love, hate thing. Most people hate Axl and will never say anything good about what he does based on the pure simple fact that they just don't like him and what he's done to GNR. Then there are fans like me who look at this and see past how much a douche Axl is and recognize this guy is an incredible songwriter, and very accomplished musician. Usually when people critique Axl they hit below the belt, it's not "good" journalism, it's just Axl bashing. This album will be sucessful, just give it time and it will succeed on it's own merits, as being a good all around rock album.
     
Paul DB wrote on 11/28/2008 - 11:07 am / quote |
I think we all have to accept that this was a pretty disappointing album.
     
MXFNCK wrote on 11/28/2008 - 11:17 am / quote |
I just heard the record for the first time and I do kind of agree with the article, but perhaps I just have to listen to it some more.
     
Quicksand15 wrote on 11/28/2008 - 01:33 pm / quote |
Paul DB wrote:
I think we all have to accept that this was a pretty disappointing album.


im sorry, but i just had to laugh so hard^^
     
1sheldon wrote on 11/28/2008 - 02:12 pm / quote |
i loved the cd
     
Anjohl wrote on 11/28/2008 - 02:45 pm / quote |
I don't think anything on CD tries to sound like AFD at ALL.

BUT, I can only dream what an Axl/Rubin partnership would yield.....
     
pawnshopguitars wrote on 11/28/2008 - 03:10 pm / quote |
GuilT wrote:

Axl did not set out to sound like Appetite, this guy is a complete douche. The brilliance of this album is it's versatility, it doesn't need direction, and it doesn't subscribe to a "theme", it's all over the place and that was the point. Axl experimented with all kinds of different soundscapes. People have such a problem with the album because it took so long to make, but if you forget all that and judge based on it's own merits without comparing it to Appetite, then this a very good effort by GNR. Nothing on this album comes close to what Appetite was, and it was never intented to.


Exactly.
     
pootoob wrote on 11/28/2008 - 05:40 pm / quote |
I don't see why everyone thinks its arrongant to sample a Martin Luther King speech on a song... Like, actually. It's just a bunch of words that sound good together... "Whoa, Axl is liek totally trying to be MLK wit teh samples and shits!"
     
gnfnr4thewin wrote on 11/28/2008 - 06:30 pm / quote |
"Chinese Democracy is an embarrassment"?

Joel McIver should put out a better album then. It's so easy to criticize someone when you think the majority will agree with you. Well Mr. McIver, I've heard of Axl Rose, like his voice, and will purchase the new GNR album. I've never heard of you, already think your a complete moron, and will not purchase this book your releasing. Axl 1 - you 0
     
gnfnr4thewin wrote on 11/28/2008 - 07:06 pm / quote |
Paul DB wrote:

I think we all have to accept that this was a pretty disappointing album.


Nope, just you. Go listen to something mainstream.
     
SLASHer77 wrote on 11/28/2008 - 07:47 pm / quote |
I agree with gnfnr. he's only jealous. I think Axl did a great job on the entire album. I know that it's not Guns N' Roses, but it still sounds great. And everyone should judge it as what it is now, not what GnR used to sound like.
     
Firewind Raging wrote on 11/28/2008 - 07:58 pm / quote |
gnfnr4thewin wrote:

Nope, just you. Go listen to something mainstream.

Er, Guns 'N' Roses are a mainstream band...
     
gnfnr4thewin wrote on 11/28/2008 - 08:13 pm / quote |
Firewind Raging wrote:

gnfnr4thewin wrote:

Nope, just you. Go listen to something mainstream.
Er, Guns 'N' Roses are a mainstream band...


oh... well if you don't like an album that someone has put creative effort into, than perhaps you'd prefer the new Brittany Spears Album...I hear it's coming out soon
     
maidenitalia wrote on 11/28/2008 - 08:14 pm / quote |
So Axl takes a year or two to write "appetite" a great album that goes platinum amazingly fast, yet when he has 7 times the amount of time he had then, he writes crap. F*** Axl "Drama Queen" Rose
     
 aig91   m   wrote on 11/28/2008 - 08:36 pm / quote |
Checked
     
gnfnr4thewin wrote on 11/28/2008 - 10:42 pm / quote |
maidenitalia wrote:

So Axl takes a year or two to write "appetite" a great album that goes platinum amazingly fast, yet when he has 7 times the amount of time he had then, he writes crap. F*** Axl "Drama Queen" Rose


Dude, Axl didn't care how "Appetite" turned out. Furthermore his creative input was not as large as it is on the Chinese Democracy album. Lastly, when Izzy and Slash were on smack, they could put anything together in a heartbeat.
     
sum1udunno wrote on 11/28/2008 - 11:53 pm / quote |
Axl was never trying to recreate Appetite. I personally think that Chinese Democracy is a combination of the raw aggressiveness of Appetite with the grandiosity of the Use Your Illusion albums.
     
Nigzy wrote on 11/29/2008 - 04:22 am / quote |
People need to take it for what it is..If it was an upcoming band people would think it was a good record but becuase of Axl and the cost/time factor..its criticised..
     
mystile_armor wrote on 11/29/2008 - 10:20 am / quote |
The fact so many people like this album is the same reason Britney Spears and all that garbage sells well; So many people with a horrible taste in music!
If you seriously think this is a good album, by any standards, you're nuts.
Compared to the old GnR albums, this one is just complete shite. Think of it as something completely seperate from GnR.
That said, even if Axl had changed the name to "Axl & The Roses" it would've still sucked. From left to right there is no decent song structure in any of the songs, they all sound like half structurized demo's to me. There are guitar solo's left and right, no structure to anything you hear. Yes, the guitar parts are sometimes very accomplished, but it's what I call the Steve Vai syndrome. Very good guitar playing but 0,0 output as far as songs go.
The only half decent song is Shackler's Revenge, but it sounds more like Axl listened to a bit too much Rob Zombie, with a ridiculous Nintendo intro and the feeling Fred Durst is going to make a guest appearance any minute.
That's just my 2 cents.

Oh and most people hate the album, not cause of Axl, not cause it's not the original GNR.
BUT BECAUSE IT IS A CRAPPY ALBUM!
     
thbeekk wrote on 11/29/2008 - 11:33 am / quote |
Paul DB wrote:

I think we all have to accept that this was a pretty disappointing album.


I actually don't agree with that at all. I really enjoy the album. That is quite arrogant that you believe you can speak for "all"
     
euan_soad wrote on 11/29/2008 - 12:36 pm / quote |
gnfnr4thewin wrote:

Paul DB wrote:

I think we all have to accept that this was a pretty disappointing album.

Nope, just you. Go listen to something mainstream.


LOL! Yeah Guns n Roses are a kvlt underground band.
Axl_Explosion wrote:

Whatever, this guy is a British journalist. Everybody knows that the british haven't done anything good since, like, the 70's. And yeah, I've never even heard of this guy, but he sounds like a complete idiot. He has no clue what he's talking about. Nothing on here sounded at all like it was trying to be Appetite. He's a teeth-sucking british douchebag.


Apparently you've not heard Iron Maiden
     
prattle128 wrote on 11/29/2008 - 01:00 pm / quote |
euan_soad wrote:

gnfnr4thewin wrote:

Paul DB wrote:

I think we all have to accept that this was a pretty disappointing album.

Nope, just you. Go listen to something mainstream.

LOL! Yeah Guns n Roses are a kvlt underground band.Axl_Explosion wrote:

Whatever, this guy is a British journalist. Everybody knows that the british haven't done anything good since, like, the 70's. And yeah, I've never even heard of this guy, but he sounds like a complete idiot. He has no clue what he's talking about. Nothing on here sounded at all like it was trying to be Appetite. He's a teeth-sucking british douchebag.

Apparently you've not heard Iron Maiden


QFT
     
life_247 wrote on 11/29/2008 - 01:32 pm / quote |
None of this sounds classic rock-ish at all!

And who gives a **** if industrial is dated.
     
CrowLord wrote on 11/29/2008 - 02:54 pm / quote |
Woah, all you GnR fanboys are getting very up in arms about someone giving this album a negative review. Lets all take a step back and remember this is someone's opinion, which he is very much entitled to. This album has had quite a few negative reviews, what are you going to do? Just coz this guy doesnt like the album, doesnt mean you can't

And I think all the "OMG what does this british guy know, what a douche" type stuff is pretty stupid. There are plenty of Americans who have panned this record too, you going to insult their and most probably your country of origin too. Didnt think so.

And this record will be compared to Appetite, as you always compare a bands latest release with their best. Appetite is easily their best work. Just coz it is a "different sound" doesnt mean it doesnt get compared. live with it. Its all just opinion after all, and I think some of you guys have taken this way too personally
     
mate_jebate wrote on 11/29/2008 - 03:37 pm / quote |
aaciseric wrote:

Wow, I managed to disagree with every point he made there.


i agree. first: "Axl has had too long to fool around in the studio, with no guiding hand to push him in the right direction", axl is in music business for 20 years and he made so many great songs and after all that he needs to be pushed in the right direction. i ask myself how axl missed that direction and this guy noticed this (who basicly isnt musican at all.
second: "the album is unfocused and doesn't really know where it's going or what to do when it gets there", how could it know what to do "there" when it doesnt know where its going? i dont realy know what he ment with this, but i think that he means that there isnt specific subject on this album. well it is not a book it is a music album, than appetite is also unfocused and he didnt get anywhere.
third: "but there are too many tunes that try and fail to sound like "Appetite for Destruction"-era ". this is a lie.
forth: "The power ballads that make up about a third of the album want so badly to be “November Rain”". another lie. these songs are not based on piano as november rain, there is piano in these songs but so deferent and less than in novmber rain. i dont even wanna talk about guitars in these songs that are not close to november rain. these ballads are so deferent than november rain they are closer to dont cry.
and finally: "and the sub-industrial guitar tone". how can anybody sound like an appetite with a sub-industrial guitar tone.
not that im angry that someone is giving this album a negative review, couse this album is realy an average album, not even close to appetite, not even close to UYI I&II, and this record has so many thigs that can be criticized but this guy is talking nonsense.
     
 uhh_me?   m   wrote on 11/29/2008 - 05:04 pm / quote |
checked.
     
generalpita wrote on 11/30/2008 - 02:06 am / quote |
Don't cling to the past like his douche in the article! Appetite was one of the greatest rock albums of al time, its like saying to Led Zeppelin "Presence sucked, why couldn't you release something like Physical Grafitti!" We all need to enjoy this album for what it is, not what it isn't!
     
Paul DB wrote on 11/30/2008 - 08:51 am / quote |
euan_soad wrote:

gnfnr4thewin wrote:

Paul DB wrote:

I think we all have to accept that this was a pretty disappointing album.

Nope, just you. Go listen to something mainstream.

LOL! Yeah Guns n Roses are a kvlt underground band.Axl_Explosion wrote:

Whatever, this guy is a British journalist. Everybody knows that the british haven't done anything good since, like, the 70's. And yeah, I've never even heard of this guy, but he sounds like a complete idiot. He has no clue what he's talking about. Nothing on here sounded at all like it was trying to be Appetite. He's a teeth-sucking british douchebag.

Apparently you've not heard Iron Maiden


All I'm saying is 15-odd years and $10million? Not worth it.
     
therealbendavis wrote on 11/30/2008 - 12:44 pm / quote |
Man I'm a huge Guns n' Roses fan, and don't understand the people that make the Axl's band comments and say things like "It shouldn't be called Gn'R
. Bands change and so do people, this album was pretty dang good if you ask me. It showcases each member's individual talent and some great lyricism. I know it's not the original Gn'R, but who cares the sound is great and diverse. If the original Gn'R got back together, I think it would be awesome, and I'd go see them, but the new line-up is great too. I saw them live and have not had a night as good since. I dunno just give it alll a chance.
     
xzxw wrote on 12/01/2008 - 11:16 am / quote |
GuilT wrote:

You goddamn idiots compare it to Appetite, for years and years Axl wanted to bury Appetite, he wanted to get away from that album, that's where the Illusion discs come from. Chinese Democracy is a great album on it's own, and would have done just as good if it were an Axl solo album, and everyone knew it pretty much is yet it continues to sell big, go figure. It very much is a love, hate thing. Most people hate Axl and will never say anything good about what he does based on the pure simple fact that they just don't like him and what he's done to GNR. Then there are fans like me who look at this and see past how much a douche Axl is and recognize this guy is an incredible songwriter, and very accomplished musician. Usually when people critique Axl they hit below the belt, it's not "good" journalism, it's just Axl bashing. This album will be sucessful, just give it time and it will succeed on it's own merits, as being a good all around rock album.

Why the hell would he want to bury Appetite? It was their breakthrough album.
     
killing_inc wrote on 12/01/2008 - 06:41 pm / quote |
Was he listening to the same record I was? As much as I would love an old Gn'R reunion, Chinese Democracy was actually pretty good. Opinions are like ass holes...
     
Destihado wrote on 12/02/2008 - 08:13 am / quote |
Paul DB wrote:

I think we all have to accept that this was a pretty disappointing album.

Speak for your ****ing self *******!
     
wheelz wrote on 12/02/2008 - 08:48 am / quote |
GuilT wrote:

You goddamn idiots compare it to Appetite, for years and years Axl wanted to bury Appetite, he wanted to get away from that album, that's where the Illusion discs come from. Chinese Democracy is a great album on it's own, and would have done just as good if it were an Axl solo album, and everyone knew it pretty much is yet it continues to sell big, go figure. It very much is a love, hate thing. Most people hate Axl and will never say anything good about what he does based on the pure simple fact that they just don't like him and what he's done to GNR. Then there are fans like me who look at this and see past how much a douche Axl is and recognize this guy is an incredible songwriter, and very accomplished musician. Usually when people critique Axl they hit below the belt, it's not "good" journalism, it's just Axl bashing. This album will be sucessful, just give it time and it will succeed on it's own merits, as being a good all around rock album.


I couldn't agree more. Also, every new Guns N Roses song has always taken a few listens to digest. Chinese Democracy is a brilliant album, it gets better and better every time you hear it. Axl has always had a knack for writing music that continually grows on you. Give this album some time, it will continue to sell.
     
wheelz wrote on 12/02/2008 - 08:51 am / quote |
xzxw wrote:

Why the hell would he want to bury Appetite? It was their breakthrough album.


Axl has always been vocal about wanting to bury Appetite. He is sick of it and has always wanted to go above and beyond.
     
slash=king wrote on 12/03/2008 - 05:34 am / quote |
gnfnr4thewin wrote:

"Chinese Democracy is an embarrassment"?

Joel McIver should put out a better album then. It's so easy to criticize someone when you think the majority will agree with you. Well Mr. McIver, I've heard of Axl Rose, like his voice, and will purchase the new GNR album. I've never heard of you, already think your a complete moron, and will not purchase this book your releasing. Axl 1 - you 0


hahaha good call
     
nick_kcin wrote on 12/03/2008 - 05:56 am / quote |
yes that was a good call. So many people were just waiting to jump on him, true the album wasn't perfect but heres the thing - NOTHING IN THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF EVERYTHING HAS EVER BEEN FUCKING PERFECT! god damn. not a word about the last couple minutes of there was a time giving you chills mother****ing bone and making the end of november rain seem like some lethargic indie rock song in comparison. Nothing about the sound of buckethead freaking his way through the album giving it a whole new dimension that could never have been expected of a gunners album. Nothing about how he wrote a bunch of songs with similar intentions in a way that hes done before (the long drawn out epics) yet still managing not to have 2 tracks that sound even close to being the same thing rehashed. I wont bother to go on
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