Members of a female high-school rock band in India have been forced into hiding after an online hate campaign.
The band Pragaash, which means First Light, were labelled "prostitues" by the online backlash, where people accused them of "Western-style cultural waywardness."
They soon disbanded, but then decided to quit playing instruments altogether when a senior government cleric called them "indecent" and issues a Fatwa.
Their music teacher said: "First, the girls had decided to quit live performance due to an online hate campaign and concentrate on making an album. But after an edict by the government's own cleric, these girls are saying goodbye to music."
In their defence, one of the government's top officials wrote on "the talented teenagers should not let themselves be silenced by a handful of morons."
Their first plug gig was in December, where they came third in a Battle Of The Bands competition, but a debate soon erupted on social networks on whether it was appropriate for a female band to play in a Muslim region.
Many were supportive of the band, but some were abusive and called to ban them from the region.
Honestly for them it is the right solution. We aren't talking about a bunch of internet trolls here, we are talking religious extremists who would happily go to prison or be executed just to stone these girls to death.
It's the right solution for their safety and even then they will probably never be safe again.
It is and i have. I am a muslim dude and the people who taught me my religion even say that these people are wrong. I think it really is horrible what goes on in the middle east, but I know enough about the religion. Maybe you should read it.
I have, and got a totally different reading. I don't want to get into a religious debate but if you look at most of the most intolerant countries in the world they are islamic based, and I don't think it's pure coincidence.
I'd rather not get into a religious debate as well, but if you have time, please do some research. Sadly it's a religion with A LOT of misconceptions, and a lot of corrupt people claiming to follow it, but i promise that's not how Muslims are supposed to be or act. Hope you have a good day.
And just remember, about a fifth of the whole world is Muslim. For every "death threats = peace" fanatic, there's thousands of perfectly normal people who just believe something different.
I can see your pain. Belonging to a religion that is peaceful and having the extremist buttholes ruining your name. I have done the research and I know exactly what you are talking about. I had heard that most of the extremists don't even have a chance to decide because they are taught that way from birth. So many bungholes in the world ruining lives.
it's easy for someone that is not from that part of the world and culture, read a text and have a liberal, happiness and joy view on holy book just to be tolerant. Too much tolerance isn't good. People today are too open minded and accepting of things that aren't even good just so they can be "tolerant"
Tolerance should be judged by the Jefferson standard:
"The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
Simplified: If you don't have to pay for it and it doesn't trample your rights, chill.
Noreee -- Every group has it's douche bags man. Each religion, political party, neighborhood, etc.
Hell, here in the states we have the Westboro Baptist haters. That doesn't make all Christians bad, nor do these haters in Kashmir make all Muslims bad.
Long as a person's behavior doesn't cost me, nor trample my rights they're welcome to do as they please.
you are obviously brainwashed cause if you read the Koran you would see how much hate is actually in it just like other religious texts. There is reason all of our people in the middle east are oppressed and executed and backwards. Islam. Period.
India isn't an Islamic country. However, Kashmir, which is at the north most part of India and shares a border with Pakistan, does have a pretty heavy Muslim population. My family (I'm Indian, by the way) tell me that it's a really beautiful place but that it's politically/religiously pretty backwards. This kind of leaves a stain on India and women's rights and shadows the fact that women have been making progress far longer than most western countries. Heck, women in Indian even made it into politics before women in the US (First women prime minister of India was in 1966). There's definitely room for improvement, though, just like any other country. It does remain sad, however, that many women regardless of country or religion still can't find freedom and equality.
"This kind of leaves a stain on India and women's rights and shadows the fact that women have been making progress far longer than most western countries."
There we go again. Please just stop with this *Apu accent* "India is beautiful, we are biggest demaaacracy, our women so empowered they dance in endless fields in Bollywood". The world recently saw women's rights in India in multiple cases of gang rape on public transport. You have the highest female infanticide rates in the world. This kind of appalling behavior goes exists throughout Asian/Middle Eastern societies regardless of religion, I think it has to more with the cultural upbringing and a skewed sense of 'honor'. Stop brushing your problems under the carpet and hiding behind the religion argument, you can only address and improve your faults by admitting them first.
Bro, for me yea. I'd keep playing but I'd stop my girls. I'll risk my life for music but I won't let my teenage girls risk theirs.
Gotta find a way to spread liberty. I think we forget that personal liberty allows us and our kids to make music in our own way. (In my case it's poorly played rock but hey, Hendrix I'll never be.)
Here's hoping these ladies find their freedom soon.
wow dude really? u think they should stop all together just because someones going to use force against them? Your what I would consider a toxic waste of life, no one should ever give up on their goals no matter what the cost. Live Free or Die!
yeah... I'd maybe consider re-reading your statement and having a long hard think. What you've said is ignorant and moronic.
I agree it's f*cked up that not all of us in the world share equal freedoms but the way you describe they should deal with the issue comes from pure ignorant fantasy.
Yeah I'll listen to your point of view when you go and live in an Islamic Country and play rock music there over a long period with no security whatsoever to prove you are so "live free or die"
People who claim this sort of dumb shit have never been truly faced with death it's the equivalent of YOLO. Morons thinking life is about doing dumb dangerous shit to prove they have some point in existing. When you have actually come close to dying come back and tell me how live free or die is working for you.
A waste of life would be giving up 40-60 years of life to play a in a high school rock band. When one day they may be able to emigrate to a country where they will let them play allthe music they want.
I can see your message is already paying off with your inability to spell. You're what I would consider an extreme waste of life and honestly I wish one of these girls was fortunate enough to take your place in society, they would make much better use of it than trying to live by motto's that don't even apply to them.
The people who came up with Live Free or Die actually had a chance at changing something, these girls don't. This isn't some inspirational movie where the actions of one high school rock band change the view of religious extremists. This is real life where their actions will get them killed and do nothing.
Live Free or Die being the motto of New Hampshire U.S meant as a memorial to John Stark's toast and to those who actually fought and gave their life so you could be free to apparently not learn anything in school and then post that inane bullshit online for the world to see. Something tells me that if they had met you they wouldn't have thought it was a sacrifice worth making and I highly doubt John Stark would have given the toast it originates from in the first place.
Learn what it truly means to Live free or Die before spreading the incorrect meaning. It does not mean waste your life for nothing like you seem to think it does.
I always wondered what that "Live Free or Die" motto meant whenever I seen New Hampshire license plates. Thanks for the insight! (I'm a Canadian, haha)
Someone from a Cun-try that cant even hold on to its own colony or defend itself against nazi germany without our help souldent criticize the sentiments of our people. You sound like a spineless coward, you dont even know me and you assume iv never dealt with death? go drink a cup of tea.
Congratulations, you are the creator of the two dumbest posts I've ever seen on UG. You see a lot of people trying to be funny with drunk threads and strange stories, but you have successfully written the two most pathetic attempts at a serious comment I've ever seen.
People like you give Americans a bad name, and then you wonder why?
Kettle, meet pot. Now YOU'RE being a toxic waste of ignorance... First of all people can have opinions, even if theyre wrong or disagree with you, that doesn't mean your any smarter or better than them.
Second, if John Stark heard what you said about this person he'd hate YOU, not the ignorant kid. I'm sure he'd be smart enough to present his side of the story without blowing up like some pseudo-intellect, I'm sure people like John Stark understood the importantance of sticking together as a civilization and would educate an 'ignorant' mind, not scold them for having an opinion.
Third, "Morons thinking life is about doing dumb dangerous shit to prove they have some point in existing."... Well then O great fountain of knowledge, who knows the answers to the questions humans can never answer, please enlighten us on what life is actually about then? YOU'RE also a moron...
"I'm sure he'd be smart enough to present his side of the story without blowing up like some pseudo-intellect, I'm sure people like John Stark understood the importantance of sticking together as a civilization and would educate an 'ignorant' mind, not scold them for having an opinion."
"First of all people can have opinions, even if theyre wrong or disagree with you, that doesn't mean your any smarter or better than them."
"YOU'RE also a moron..."
1. I like how you attempt to scold me for insulting someone else about their opinion and then you go and the exact same yourself, "blowing up like some psuedo-intellect" with a holier than thou attitude and insulting me for my opinion with the exact words that one of your points was against, since they imply you think you're "smarter or better" than me (or at least that is what you seem to think they imply based on your comment and reaction to them) At least I wasn't being a hypocrite.
2. How does one be a toxic waste of ignorance, Is there such thing as a good use of ignorance?
3. I wouldn't care if John Stark hated me, it wasn't me or the freedom of my country that he and his men fought and gave their lives for. I'm not an American nor do I mis-use his toast to try and encourage people to waste their life for nothing.
4. I don't know what life is about(obviously) but if someone is going to assume it's fine to tell three people to waste their's and possibly those of their friends and family for the sake of being in a high school rock band, then yeah I am going to assume that person is dumb. Does that make me intelligent? No.
5. The person I wrote the comment to proved my point when they responded with a comment not aimed at the original criticism of their own comment but at where in the world I live while missing the point that I was criticizing their mis-use of a sentiment and not the original sentiment itself. Invoking some good old stereotyping, xenophobia and skewed history while doing so.
"Someone from a Cun-try that cant even hold on to its own colony or defend itself against nazi germany without our help souldent criticize the sentiments of our people. You sound like a spineless coward, you dont even know me and you assume iv never dealt with death? go drink a cup of tea."
6. I don't care about Sprike, he/she is a lost cause, way past the point of no return. You can't educate people like that(not through an internet comment anyhow) you can educate others who see that comment by criticizing it though. I'd rather have not had to insult he/she to get the point across but unfortunately it can be a bit of a weakness of mine at times.
"please enlighten us on what life is actually about then?"
I'll take a shot at that. Corny as it sounds, life is about love.
The patriots who came up with the motto so loved their families that they were willing to give their lives to ensure the freedom of their children. It was a vastly different circumstance than in Kashmir. They had allies ,were well armed and had neighbors who either shared their ideals or were willing to supply/hide them.
Also, they were not teenage girls. Contrary to some folks ideas, men in their prime generally excel at warfare over women.
NOTE: No way in hell if they were my kids I'd let them keep playing. Least not till I smuggled them to a more moderate area. Love my kids too much to let them risk their lives.
it must be terrible for them. not just the fact of their safety, but also the impossibility of peacefully sharing your thoughts because of a bunch of religious bastards
No, the right choice would be not to be a coward. You see, pussys like you never get anything done in life. Think about it, even if they died, spreading rock music, equality, and womens rights to a backwards part of the world that desperately needs it, they would forever be legends and would have done this world a great service. The bullies are just muslims, stay away from rocks because most of them can't read or write, let alone use a real weapon. All muslims are people who are still cavemen, morons by today's standards and cowards who hide behind their false religion. Every day I hear about a drone strike killing a muslim is a good day for the planet earth, and every one of these news articles proves me right.
Not officially no, but it does have a large following there and is still a massive threat to these girls.
To clarify my comment wasn't saying go to India and play rock music. Just go to any country where Islam has a large following with a fair few extremists and try it especially while being Muslim yourself. Bad wording on my part, sorry.
dayum they're so bad I can see why there waS a fatwa issued lol, but on serious note if these girls wanna make noise without problems unfortunately they will have to move to a more friendly environment to play whether fun or serious.
If they can get the makers of southpark to not air an episode in the US they can probably get these girls to stop playing in india, And to anyone talking about how hateful Islam can be take a look at america's version of Christianity, here the party that claims to want to get back to christian values is against providing healthcare for the poor, and has social policy that hurts the most vulnerable among us (the amount of damage the war on drug has inflicted on the inner city with only richer organized crime to show for is unjustifiable). Just look at Paul Ryan, his philosophy is so based on Ayn Rand that he made atlas shrugged mandatory reading in his office, yet when it came to the election he had to say he didn't support her philosophy because it is by design meant to be the antithesis of traditional Christian values. There is a huge divide between how well people claim to present there religion and how they actually present there religion no matter where you go. It's just that while there it takes the form of bombings, demonizing women and christians, and acid in schools girls faces, here it the form of... um, occasional bombings... demonizing the poor, women, and muslims... we'll at least where not throwing acid in school girls faces.
India didn't get south park to not air an episode, you're thinking of Islamic countries, India is Hindi.
Nice hateful book comment you wrote there. It's like a read a conspiracy theory, every other sentence you wrote is about something completely different and the text isn't even cohesive or coherent.
You know, all your favourite artists were once on the same level as them at performing. They really can't be that bad, they are PLAYING instruments! It's a rarity in this day and age, i tell you! Everybody's generating songs on computers... these girls know what music is, and they are making it themselves.
We need more of this, it's always nice to see international bands pop-up. Not everything should be western born "artists" -- if you can call one direction and bieber artists that is.
Where have you been since the arrival of cher? The past decade or so has been dominated by robot singers. Lady GaGa, Rihanna, are two examples. They have no talent. It's boring, and mainstream music is over-run by this rubbish.
If you read my comment properly, you'd understand the point i was trying to make. These indian girls are playing instruments... that is something that should be respected, it doesn't matter how good you are, the ability to make actual music is a great thing. Personally i'd like to see kids picking up a guitar, bass, or a drum set. Doesn't matter what kind of music they are playing, as long as it's music they are PLAYING. Robot dancers and autotuned machinima rolemodels are past their sell by date.
That's what I thought as well, pretty ridiculous how different they are treated on here.
Personally I think no band or artist (including these guys AND stump) deserve treatment like this, and it's always super sad to see fellow musicians lose their spark for music.
Now that was just rude and uncalled for, but I think I can understand what you mean. The majority here are sex depraved lunatics.
And by "time will fix things", I mean that the 'new' generation; post 1990, is actually good, and once they are the driving force in society, things will change. For the better, I hope
Those who red arrowed my second comment are clearly Marxist liberals who harbour ideals of a multiculturalist utopia where everyone gets along. Ain't gonna happen on Our watch. 1488, baby.
Well I guess I'm a delusional marxist. The thing is I agree with you on the principal that it is your right to not extend help to those in need, as I also believe it is the right of everyone else to judge you as a close minded ***** for how you said it. I'm a bleeding heart liberal at heart and just based on your first comment I would have just taken you as someone pointing out an unpleasant reality people don't like to be reminded of, but the way you responded to people downvoting your comment shows a great deal of ignorance and hardened prejudice, and if your refering to how we wiped out most of the natives by coming here all your doing is pointing out the exact reason we need to reform the way we deal with the world, you can't expect a sociopathic serial abuser to put a straight jacket on to prevent themselves from screwing people over. As much as we'd like to pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist we all are connected and need to work together better than ever to keep the highly interdependent machine that is human society running well.
People often forget that universal freedom means that anyone can do what they want and just not themselves, anyone who's had any functional relationship with someone of another belief system knows that everyone involved has to respect the others interest's or else it becomes an unworkable hellhole pretty quickly.
And then they wonder why Islam is seen in a bad light. Sexist, homophobic and intolerance are the topics most associated with Islam today, and I blame it on the silent majority of Muslims who let their faith be hijacked by whoever can scream over the other the loudest. Shame.
It's just sad because I know a lot of Muslims who are great people, yet those who can scream over them are what we as Americans see. Everyone sees the word "Muslim" and thinks "Osama bin Laden".
People make very similar statements about every religion. It's ridiculous when you think about it. I guess I'm spoiled as an American because Natural Rights are something that should be universal, but sadly, are not.
The same could be said about Christianity or really any religion. I have a friend in college from Pakistan and he's actually fairly liberal. He doesn't care if someone's gay and he certainly isn't sexist. I think it has to do with the black and white way that many religious conservatives think. If they were less rigid about their thoughts, they would be much more tolerant.
You know, if you took your post and replaced "Islam" with "Christianity" and "Muslims" with "Christians", it would still be true. Just throwing that out there.
That is what someone would call a very large generalization. Quite a few countries look at us and think we are backwards considering our gun laws, etc. A few extremists do not define a country.
The government never called anyone anything. It's the clerics/hardline Muslims who are saying this; the clerics seem to think that, by way of fatwas, they wield the power to control whatever any Muslim chooses to do.
Most major religions feature intolerant views, this is not news. The difference is; in the west, the populace have learned to ignore the ramblings of extremist religious leaders, and substitute a diluted version of whatever faith they belong to, in order to conform with the, now prevalent, social norms.
America is still very much a God Fearing country, George Bush went to war with Iraq because he claims God told him to. Presidents are still sworn in under God while using bibles. Most judicial systems in Christian countries make you swear an oath on a Bible to tell the truth. If you are not religious it is highly unlikely you will make it anywhere within American politics and even less likely you will ever be President.
Sure the west don't take it to the extremes of some Eastern countries but we aren't exactly free from religion. Christians still hold a large sway over what the country does and what laws are passed and this is the same for most Christian nations, Christianity is just much more "covert" about trying to control things. There are even highly religion orientated news outlets who edit their news for the forwarding of religious goals. I.e how after Sandy Hook Fox News focused nearly solely on the fact that the killer played Video Games which has been a target of the more extreme sides of Christianity for a while and almost completely neglected that the man used Guns to shoot those children. Now those with intelligence can see that for what it is, propaganda, but those without it don't see it so clearly and use outlets like that as a guide for living as God wanted them to. There is no disclaimer to tell them what they just heard isn't exactly true or highly skewed to favor a viewpoint etc. This holds sway on who gets elected and what laws are passed as well.
And no I'm not saying all Christians or Muslims are crazy and dumb, just pointing out that we in the west aren't as free from religion as people like to claim. There is such a thing as intelligent Christians and Muslims they tend to stay away from the "Big business" side of religion though and don't let their views get skewed by people with ulterior motives, unfortunately these people tend to be in the minority and are often silent.
It's actually a shame that they quit because of this.
Who the hack would make a hate campain for musicians?
There missing the whole perpose of music: expressing yourself. It doesn't matter how they play or who they are, but if they get in danger because of their music it should be considered as a crime, because it limits their freedom of speech.
But that's exactly WHY it's a problem. It's common in that area for women to have extremely truncated rights, and freedom of speech isn't as widespread as it is in the Western world.
That doesn't make it right, but I hope it helps you understand some of the struggles in that area.
I'm a muslim, and I am against forbidden or hating on a band in the name of Islam where Islam never really banned music! I live in Islamic city and the music scene is doing great, this is just bullshit, it is not about Islam it is about some backward culture using Islam as an argument for their ignorance!
On a side note, in this particular case this campaign probably was for the best XD
lol like a previous commenter said, its only labeled haram by the radical extremists whereas regular Muslims don't mind music that much. I am a muslim and live in a country with almost 90% of muslim population. The music scene is booming here with a huge underground scene and popular mainstream rock bands as well.
And this is what happens when your Country is run and ruled by a religion even the government is chiming in on it.
Christian run nations are insane enough of as it is, Islamic nations just take it to a whole new level though. It's like the two are having a pissing contest to see who is craziest.
Any intelligent individual who follows Islam would get shocked by this act. Its only the rural minded, fanatical and overly religious extremist who propagates such hate.
I dislike muslims altogether because even the moderate muslims (those great people someone described) do not acknowledge or raise their voices against the hate their religion spreads.
This isn't like speaking out against Christianity, where the Christians would just attempt to make your life miserable. Islamic extremists would kill you, it might even be your own family that kill you as an honor killing.
Would you be willing to put your own life and possibly that of your family and friends on the line to speak out against Islamic extremists which would do very little?
They don't rule from word you know, Islamic Extremists have armies of people happy to die for their cause at their command. They rule through power, anyone speaking out against them just becomes cannon fodder.
freedom of speech is the biggest cornerstone for true democracy. if we stop fighting for it, it will fade away. just two days ago a guy here in Denmark was almost shot in the head for speaking up against muslims. and antoher(who drew the muhammed drawings for in the newspaper jyllandsposten) is living under constant police protection. point is, they have no regrets.
I really don't see why this guy is being downvoted, what he is saying is true. We have had similar problems in sweden and although I don't want to label muslims as fanatics I think that the majority of the deeply religious ones would go apeshit crazy if you showed them a degrading photo of their profet. Maybe even resort to violence. Just search "Lars Vilks" on youtube and you should find videos of muslims going crazy for no reason. Again I am not saying that all muslims act like this and i don't want to offend anyone, I just think that everyone should be free to write or say or OT play whatever they want.
Fear of being killed is not an excuse. If the moderate muslims want to sit back as Islam assassinates people all over the world for imaginary crimes, then they will be held accountable with all other muslims. One day, one of these kids whose parent was murdered from some muslim is going to grow up and rule a country/army. And when they invade the muslim countries, burn the crops, salt the land, rape the women, and genocide everyone, the world will not be there to help them. We will stand there laughing with a smug look, thinking "You deserve this you evil dirty muslim bastards, you look at us with contempt, this is your fate". I can't wait for some genocide, start with their brainwashed children.
As a Roman Catholic I can whole-heartedly say that Catholicism is very guilty of the same thing. Don't hate an entire group of people because the media sheds a certain light on them. That being said, this country is corrupt to the core and these poor girls deserve the right to write music
Couple of centuries back the devil's tritone was forbidden in music. Now bands like Sabbath and Slayer redefined it. These countries are way behind in thinking.
It was in use by the Baroque era by many composers, Bach especially, as part of harmonic sequences. Many famous classical pieces since then also have contained it, such as Mars; Bringer of War, by Gustav Holst. (20th century composer, but still counts).
This is the most disgusting thing I've heard. Music changed my life, and I couldn't imagine being forced out of music because of a misogynistic bunch of c**ts! How dare they label them because they want to express themselves. They're the ones that should be silenced, and not be allowed to express their ignorant, narrow minded religious zealotry.
I think I see the problem here... Islam. Not allowing women play music... But it's OK, give it 400 years and they'll all calm dawn and attempt to become a peaceful religion instead of slaying infadels for being right... Oh sorry, disagreeing with Islam.
I find it amazing that they managed to offend somebody - they're not behaving or dressing inappropriately, the song is totally mellow, and the band's name isn't blasphemous. I can't grasp what's causing the backlash. But there are 2 sides here - on one hand, yes its sad and ****ed that these girls feel they need to quit music because of this, but at the same time we all know what fundamentalists (of all religions, not just Islam)are capable of and no one should be placed in position where playing music puts your life in danger. I just hope that later in life these girls get another opportunity
its a place in INDIA plagued with a muslim country nd i m from india and there are thousands of bandss consisting femaless i've seen many of em live even played with them too this is just an xceptional case!!! people stop mocking india!!
One of the problems in this country is that its people refuse to believe that there is any problem with their "culture". Baby girls get killed and people act nonchalant, raise the price of petrol and there is national bandh. Yeah, there are bands with women in it, but stopping even one band from performing is a failure of your so-called democracy. This band didnt deserve what it got, nor did MF Hussain or Kamal Hassan. You know what I am talking about. Artists get no respect in India, unless you are doing safe Bollywood movies.
"In their defence, one of the government's top officials wrote on "the talented teenagers should not let themselves be silenced by a handful of morons.""
This is grotesque. This should never happen to anyone, no matter what region of the world you live in. Music is bigger than petty hate. I hope they soon realize to keep going on and making music.
India? Are you sure it wasn't Pakistan UG? India is a Hindu country, not Muslim, and while traditional female values there differ to our own, they aren't as extreme as right wing extremist Islam.
India and Pakistan are the same culturally though Indians like to think they are different. India just has more money and its politics is pseudo secular, but fundamentally both peoples act the same.
Hopefully they can get out of the country sometime in the future and actually pursue their dreams...until then, the human race once again proves that we're ****ed up **** ups.
hell i'd give em a medal for even trying. changing peoples views is hard but music is something that has made my life worthwhile and for these poor guys being forced to give up by extremest dicks is disgusting.
Islam is the most disgusting religion on the planet. I have read the koran, and it is the biggest piece of garbage. Perhaps even worse than the bible. The fact that people are so stupid is the only reason any religion is around anymore. We have the science and the facts to prove or disprove everything the bible/koran says. Anyone who sees otherwise is either very dumb or very weak. Religion should only be for weak **** ups (drug addicts, alcoholics, crazy people)
Not to get into a religious debate or anything but a lot of scientific information is in the Quran and it explains things such as the big bang and planetary motion and hoe embryos develop inside the womb and muslims have a religious duty to improve science to better the human race and make life easier. I hope you take this into consideration.
a thing about rock/metal is that it has a reocurring message.....**** censorship and what people think about you. so i hope theese girls keep living their dream and (i cant believe im actually going to say this....) fuk da hatrs!
I'm not racist or anything, I seriously do not have anything against any race or religion, but seriously people come one. Muslims wonder why people see them as such barbaric inhumane devolved people...it's because you ****ing act like it. This is the 21st century people if we cant simply see that man and women are created equally humanity is bound to fail hopelessly just like the dinosaurs. Utterly disgusting that anyone would try to control people so much, kind of makes me understand why they are so willing to blow them selves up, pretty much a peaceful liberation for them, so sad.
i very much agree. the burden is on the honorable representatives of religions such as this one to prove to the world that it is good, and to denounce actions such as these. if they can't do that, they should expect no respect as a collective.
I see your point, and I agree with it. That being said you have to understand that these people have basically come straight from the middle ages and have been thrust into modern society by the technological revolution. They're just not coping with the radical change in thinking. It's like western society going from the spanish inquisition, skipping 600 years, and then being dropped into the modern world. The period of adjustment is going to take a while. A lot of these people were literally living in huts with no electricity not more than 40 years ago.
Chances are they would receive just about the same level of hate in the US. Imagine if they toured texas or alabama. It would be like visiting the stone age for them.
We can say that "they should keep playing music" but the fact of the matter is that they could be killed by the radicals in their country. I don't blame them for wanting to live. Islam is truly the DEVIL incarnate...
Muslims are despicable swine - their entire religion is founded by a 'prophet' who raped a child. Utterly sickening. Islam should be eradicated from the earth.
Nice generalisation Hitler. I know some really great people who happen to be Muslim. The actions of a few doesn't transpose to the many. Also the child rape story has very little basis in fact, it was propegated by an ex-muslim female with a grudge against the religion.
I agree with someone above who said we are not totally free from religion in the West. Thing is though we seem to have taken it out of the way we do things more than much of the Eastern World. I work with a 40 something year old Indian man who left India after college. It blew my mind to hear his stories about wealthy children (young men) of high ranking people in society would VERY often rape women. Afterwords they would threaten to "expose" them as no longer being a virgin and being a *****. Could have been lying, but for some reason I bought it. It's truly unbelievable how women in much of the Eastern world are treated - India is not as bad as many. I mean, look at the laws in Iran - WHO STONES SOMEONE ANYMORE??? Honestly, how can you throw rocks at someone until they die without being completely sick in the head? Very glad I live in Canada - sure were not perfect, but we don't kill people with rocks for adultery or have any large enough demographic of horrible people to make enough noise about a female rock band to actually have them fearing for their safety.* shakes head in sadness *
til I looked at the draft ov $7328, I accept that my best friend was like they say actualy receiving money part-time on their computer.. there aunts neighbour haz done this for only nineteen months and just repayed the dept on there villa and got a new Volkswagen Golf GTI. go to, Great70dotcom
Being a muslim it frustrates me to end to see extremist idiots stop the progress of their nation and subjugate women for no reason which is not supposed to happen at all. I just hope future generations can break the cycle of tyranny and be free from extremism. God help them.
Religion is evil. Until people understand that you can have a God without having to follow something written thousands of years ago and instead follow basic human morality, we're ****ed.
I was gonna post a comment about how it's ridiculous to talk about a periphery nation like India using developed world standards and ideologies. I probably would have tossed something about us looking just as ridiculous and backwards in our beliefs [godless heathens, where is our moral foundation and theocratic social constitution?]....and then I realized this is the country that believes cows are not meant to be eaten. Logic and reasoning cannot be implied in any standard.
What makes you think that cows are meant to be eaten?The food industry?using a lazy view like that will get you nowhere, no animal is meant to be eaten, people do it because they believe it is normal and have become used to it.If it becomes normal to take a shit and then dance in it, I guess you'll become a Billy Elliot mother****er..."Logic and reasoning cannot be implied in any standard"...you are a product of believing everything you watch on tv to be normal...open your eyes slave
First and foremost, the actual reason for the band quitting, rather than the 'internet hate campaign', was a fatwa issued by the 'grand mufti' of Kashmir. The bassist did an interview/press conference where, visibly distressed and broken by the situation, she said that the band wouldn't go against the fatwa.
Regarding the 'India is not a Muslim country debate', here's the clarification: the fatwa, which was the PRIMARY reason for this band's break up, was issued by a Muslim mufti. These girls are from Kashmir which is a Muslim majority region. The girls are Muslims themselves and risk serious backlash if they dare violate the fatwa. I'm not calling out Muslims in any way, just those fundamentalists who think they can do whatever they darned well feel like, veiling exhibitions of their power over the Muslim community in the garb of enforcing discipline. These fatwas are, sadly, commonplace in India today.
You might be puzzled: if these whimsical fatwas are so commonplace, why doesn't the government do anything? Why isn't action being taken against those issuing these, frankly, unconstitutional decrees? Here's the reason which is something that many of you might not know or realize: India, for the past 9 years, has been ruled by a coalition of political parties which are 'secular' to a point where they are invariably biased in favor of minority communities, especially the Muslims. Taking concrete action against leaders of such a community puts the government at risk of getting into the bad books of many Muslims and the vote bank politics comes in, etc. Typical evils of a democratic society.
So yes, while India is by and large a Hindu nation, the political scenario is such that events like this end up occurring - rather, are allowed to occur, I should say - which give the situation an almost hardline Islamist appearance.
I agree with champbassist. But it's not just the current government that is biased. Both the ruling and opposition are equally biased in their own way. The opposition got one of India's best known painters to leave the country, not to mention the contempt they have for minorities in general. Both look to keep their vote banks which belong to ignorant, backward, stuck in the medieval ages pricks. That's why you still have lhaps and fatwas in a "democratic" country. When will the secularists hold protests against such things? Only then can this country (or any other country for that matter) move ahead. Simply having money will not do.
Sadly, as wrong as it may sound, the 'backward' folk comment is definitely true. Then again, it's not like these 'backward' people have a choice: rural folk (who make up a majority of 'backward' people, I'd suppose) vote myopically. Their votes go to the person that promises them a better chance of barely staying alive for the next 5 years. Given how the current government won 2 back to back elections, you have to say that they're doing a good job of cashing in on their vote bank and flipping the rest of the nation the bird . Your observation on the opposition parties rings true as well, IMO. Evils inherent to a democracy.
The bottom line is that issues such as fatwas (and khaps as well, in a similar vein) could've and should've been dealt with by our government(s) before the situation got this ugly.
Coming to the current issue, the futility lies in the fact that no matter how many protests take place, this government won't dare take action against a Mufti. In the same vein, as you say, if the guys sitting in the opposition today come to power tomorrow, you wouldn't expect them to offend their religious vote bank either.
"This kind of leaves a stain on India and women's rights and shadows the fact that women have been making progress far longer than most western countries."
There we go again. Please just stop with this *Apu accent* "India is beautiful, we are biggest demaaacracy, our women so empowered they dance in endless fields in Bollywood". The world recently saw women's rights in India in multiple cases of gang rape on public transport. You have the highest female infanticide rates in the world. This kind of appalling behavior goes exists throughout Asian/Middle Eastern societies regardless of religion, I think it has to more with the cultural upbringing and a skewed sense of 'honor'. Stop brushing your problems under the carpet and hiding behind the religion argument, you can only address and improve your faults by admitting them first.
I have to admit that the anti-female evils have been ingrained in our culture for generations now, but these issues are getting dealt with, big time.
At the same time, though, you are showing the typical 'Americuh' brand of ignorance by clubbing together Indian and Middle Eastern societies. The horrible stories of gang rape that got to your ears did so only because our nation has a very healthy, active media scene, which brings forth such issues, which is why, as I said, this is something that is being dealt with, firmly (note that I'm speaking of women's issues right now, which are NOT, as you assume, the same as religious issues). The media presence I speak of is totally absent in Middle Eastern nations. I'd bet my bottom rupee that the situation of women's rights is worse in the Middle East than in India.
FWIW, the average metropolitan Indian community is already pretty much gender-equal and awareness regarding these issues within the youth, even in non-metropolitan areas, is very promising. Nobody can deny that our culture has this tendency of an anti-female haughtiness, but we're not sitting on our butts doing nothing. BTW, 'our culture', in India, refers to the culture of the Hindu religion. Anti-female issues among the Muslims, though somewhat similar, aren't the exactly same by any stretch of the imagination, as this fatwa shows: there've been plenty of all-girl acts in India, and no Hindu leader has ever condemned them in such a damning manner. Again, no disrespect to the Muslim religion (Hindus, for sure, have their own problems with fundamentalism), but I'm trying to make a point as to how this more a religion issue than it is an anti-girl issue.
It may surprise you to know that I myself am a Brit.
