Page 3 of 3
#81
Quote by :-D
^It's not really an argument, I'm just pointing out that a power chord is not a chord by itself.

Judging by the length of the semi-regular threads on the issue, some do see it as an argument.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#83
If you want some inspiration on how learning harmony will help your lead playing, watch this. Marty Friedman is a strange one, he is no theory expert but has a great ear and sense of melody, and understands the importance of harmony/chords.

If you are going to learn theory, there are a few articles on this site that are good to learn from, eg this or these. This site is often recommended for it's lessons and exercises.
And learn the chord progressions of some songs, if you find metal too hard to understand then learn some rock or pop or soul or blues or anything.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Jul 23, 2012,
#84
Quote by vampirelazarus
TS, do you happen to have any gp5 files of stuff you've written? I would like to use your own material to teach you. I think that your ear knows all this stuff, but you don't have a clue. And that's perfectly fine, but you want to learn, and that makes this easy for us.

If you don't have any of your stuff written down (seriously, you could even just link to a picture from a notebook if you had to), then can you give an example of a song you like?

I don't have any files or notes on the songs that I have created. 2 out of the 3 songs I have created were improvisational solos, and the 3rd one was a song that I created riffs with but I didn't write them down, I just remembered the order of the riffs I practiced when I played them over drum beats from EZ drummer and then improvised the solo at the end. So all in all, when I create a solo song it's improvisational, a song with riffs is remembered and played when recording. They're on YouTube if you want to hear the simplicity of my playing.

Quote by Hydra150
^He did link to a song in his last post. The chords in it seem fairly clear (particularly in the second half)apart from the metallica-esque chord-riffs, typical power metal stuff I geuss. I like the Mario music rip-off half way through it.

lol what, I have not noticed this... what time to be exact? Also "metallica-esque" is an insult. These guys are better than them.

Okay so no chords in that song... should I post another one from a different band that I think might have chords in it?

Quote by Sean0913
By the way did you get my catalog I emailed you over the weekend?


Yes I did thank you, it's a nice brochure but what am I supposed to do with it? Follow the titles as steps in guitar playing?

Quote by Hydra150
If you want some inspiration on how learning harmony will help your lead playing, watch this. Marty Friedman is a strange one, he is no theory expert but has a great ear and sense of melody, and understands the importance of harmony/chords.


Haha I've seen some clips of this video on YouTube, he is strange in a funny way.
Last edited by Who Sh0t Ya HxO at Jul 23, 2012,
#85
I assure you that there are chords in that song. I just haven't had time to look at it.
Understand nothing, in order to learn everything.

Quote by liampje
I can write a coherent tune ... But 3/4? I play rock, not polka.
#86
Quote by Who Sh0t Ya HxO

lol what, I have not noticed this... what time to be exact?


2m34 seconds into that live video sounds like a rip off of this theme which was released a few years earlier, the melodies have the same rhythm, contour and exotic Egyptian flavour/theme, although a couple notes may be different.

Also "metallica-esque" is an insult. These guys are better than them.


Those riffs sound like they could be Metallica to me. I'm no thrash historian, but Metallica were creating that style of riff a decade before that record was made, I'd say 'Metallica-esque' is fairly accurate. Also, don't start comparing bands here, the fact that one is your favourite and another you hate with a fiery passion is irrelevant to this discussion.

Okay so no chords in that song... should I post another one from a different band that I think might have chords in it?

Post another song if you like, but I assure you there are chord progressions in that song. Imma wait to see if vampirelazarus demonstrates, because I cant be bothered. But for example, I notice that the chorus (starting 3:05) is;

[:Ebm ///| Ebm ///| Db ///| Ebm ///:] (x2)

Yes I did thank you, it's a nice brochure but what am I supposed to do with it? Follow the titles as steps in guitar playing?

What do you normally do with a brochure? Take a look at what they're sellin, and, if interested, buy the shit. You were lookin to shell out a ton of money for Tom Hess lessons earlier and, while I cant compare their methods as I have never been a student of either, Sean comes off as a much nicer chap with a passion for helping people who want to learn (and I assume people have spelled out the common complaints about Hess earlier in this thread - if not, searchbar his name, there are a few fun threads about him).

Haha I've seen some clips of this video on YouTube, he is strange in a funny way.

The man's a genius, and there's a lot to be learned about melody and working with the chords from him.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Jul 23, 2012,
#87
Quote by Hydra150
2m34 seconds into that live video sounds like a rip off of this theme which was released a few years earlier, the melodies have the same rhythm, contour and exotic Egyptian flavour/theme, although a couple notes may be different.


Those riffs sound like they could be Metallica to me. I'm no thrash historian, but Metallica were creating that style of riff a decade before that record was made, I'd say 'Metallica-esque' is fairly accurate. Also, don't start comparing bands here, the fact that one is your favourite and another you hate with a fiery passion is irrelevant to this discussion.

Post another song if you like, but I assure you there are chord progressions in that song. Imma wait to see if vampirelazarus demonstrates, because I cant be bothered. But for example, I notice that the chorus (starting 3:05) is;

[:Ebm ///| Ebm ///| Db ///| Ebm ///:] (x2)

What do you normally do with a brochure? Take a look at what they're sellin, and, if interested, buy the shit. You were lookin to shell out a ton of money for Tom Hess lessons earlier and, while I cant compare their methods as I have never been a student of either, Sean comes off as a much nicer chap with a passion for helping people who want to learn.

The man's a genius, and there's a lot to be learned about melody and working with the chords from him.

Haha I've never heard that mario music before... it definitely sounds almost the same. That's the phyrigian style ain't it?

I get that all songs have chord progressions, but it doesn't seem they were actually playing chords, more just play the sound of the chord or the key I guess.

Don't get me wrong I like Metallica, it's just like everyone else, they saddened me after the black album.
Last edited by Who Sh0t Ya HxO at Jul 23, 2012,
#88
Do you disagree with the chords I wrote out for the chorus?
Grab an acoustic guitar and strum along;



Not only the chorus but the whole section starting at 4:41 up until the chorus at 5:30 is simply alternating those two chords. Tell me that you can hear that?

If you were to try and play an Eb major chord and a Db minor chord instead, it would sound like crap, even though the guitarists in the song are only using fifth/powerchords (actually I think one of em is using thirds, in which ase they together are playing full triad/chords), the harmony is there even if they arent playing the full thing all the time.

Edit: Also, in another of their songs, check out the rhythm guitarist playing chords, clearly visible at 1:30.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Jul 23, 2012,
#89
Quote by Who Sh0t Ya HxO
I get that all songs have chord progressions, but it doesn't seem they were actually playing chords, more just play the sound of the chord or the key I guess.

Quote by :-D
chords = harmony and harmony is present in pretty much anything you'll ever hear, regardless of whether it has parts comprised of individual notes or chords. Learning how chords are constructed and work together gives you one of the fundamental tools toward understanding how music functions, and when you're trying to come up with something on your own, it won't be a process of guess and check; you'll know exactly how to get the sound you're looking for.

This still holds true.
#91
Quote by Hydra150
Do you disagree with the chords I wrote out for the chorus?
Grab an acoustic guitar and strum along;



Not only the chorus but the whole section starting at 4:41 up until the chorus at 5:30 is simply alternating those two chords. Tell me that you can hear that?

If you were to try and play an Eb major chord and a Db minor chord instead, it would sound like crap, even though the guitarists in the song are only using fifth/powerchords (actually I think one of em is using thirds, in which ase they together are playing full triad/chords), the harmony is there even if they arent playing the full thing all the time.

Edit: Also, in another of their songs, check out the rhythm guitarist playing chords, clearly visible at 1:30.


At first I disagreed because it didn't sound right, and then I forgot or realized that the chord pictures were meant to be in standard tuning, and Iced Earth plays in Eb tuning so that's why it wasn't making sense. So when I brought the chords up a half step, then it made harmony with what they were playing, yes I agree.

But like I said before, I get that chord progressions are throughout every song that I hear but I don't see them playing the chords, they play notes that sound good with the chord that could be behind it but no one is actually playing it. So what's the purpose of learning that chord if no one is going to play it?

Idk what you mean by thirds but if it's like reverse power chords but with 2 strings then yes the rhythm guitarist is doing that. Like where he puts his ring finger on 7th fret Ab string, and index finger on 5th fret Db string? and then it goes ring finger 5th fret, Ab string, index finger 4th fret, Db string. Which by the way those two riffs right there are what is making those Ebm and Db chord sounds thus removing the need for those two chords anyway since they are being made but in a different way.


Also gotta say that the song you posted of him playing a chord is their best song and if you could point out more chords on that song that's cool, but what is the chord he is playing at that time you posted? I just seen them as random single notes that sounded good together. Didn't think he was picking out a chord.

Quote by :-D
Learning how chords are constructed and work together gives you one of the fundamental tools toward understanding how music functions, and when you're trying to come up with something on your own, it won't be a process of guess and check; you'll know exactly how to get the sound you're looking for.


This is great news because I always wondered how musicians created great music just by doing what I do, which is guess and check... I'm sick of playing around seeing what sounds good together, I always thought that other musicians did the same thing. So grasping this knowledge will allow me to unlock the creativity that has been built up for so long? being able to play what I hear in my head?
Last edited by Who Sh0t Ya HxO at Jul 24, 2012,
#92
Generally, the reason those two notes sound good together is because they are chord tones, meaning they are notes from the chords.

You also got the thirds thing down pretty good.


Also, during the intro of the song you posted, Im hearing pretty much what Hydra posted, but.... I also think their is an F in there somewhere. My ear isnt the greatest though. Looks and sounds like they are just playing an Eb with some chord tones, then repeating on the new chord....
Understand nothing, in order to learn everything.

Quote by liampje
I can write a coherent tune ... But 3/4? I play rock, not polka.
#93
Please learn your intervals for what they are. I'm no theory buff in the slightest but even I cringed when you described thirds as being "reverse powerchords on two strings". Learn the fretboard, and so learn WHY they are thirds.

Also, how the hell can dyads not be considered chords?

I've come to the conclusion theory is a lot like philosophy. You come here with the goal of learning WHY stuff happens but then you have to bitch with other people about it forever.
#94
Quote by Who Sh0t Ya HxO
This is great news because I always wondered how musicians created great music just by doing what I do, which is guess and check... I'm sick of playing around seeing what sounds good together, I always thought that other musicians did the same thing. So grasping this knowledge will allow me to unlock the creativity that has been built up for so long? being able to play what I hear in my head?

If you train your ears properly as you do this, yes. There are two main components to this: one, you learn the theory behind chords and harmony so that you essentially know what's going on in the music. To complement that, you play around with certain examples and pay attention to how certain progressions, arpeggios and whatnot sound so that you're able to more easily identify them by ear.
Quote by Spaztikko
Also, how the hell can dyads not be considered chords?

I didn't say that. I said power chords are not chords. I generally wouldn't consider a dyad a chord either, but there's a stronger argument to be made for certain dyads than for power chords.
#95
Doesnt a dyad = two notes and therefore a power chord, containing only the R and P5 make it a dyad, and as a chord is simply a grouping of notes is a powerchord not a chord?
#96
Quote by Spaztikko
Doesnt a dyad = two notes and therefore a power chord, containing only the R and P5 make it a dyad, and as a chord is simply a grouping of notes is a powerchord not a chord?

All power chords are dyads, not all dyads are power chords - that's what I was getting at.

Some people define a chord as any grouping of notes, myself and many others don't. It's just common modern practice vs. classical definition though, that's all.
#97
I feel like I'm understanding more about chords just talking about them through this thread... thanks a lot guys for the help, all this talk has given me more motivation to learn about chords, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to struggle still.
#99
Just keep at it man, it'll all come together. At least that's one of the cool things about guitar, you'll never lack anything new to learn. Guitar's a tough instrument to learn, but if it wasn't, then everybody would be Steve Vai. And that'd be no fun.
#100
Check this out;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5ms7jXIfrk
It's you.
The chords for that track are;
[: Dm ///| Bb ///| C ///| Dm ///:]
[Dm ///| Bb ///| C /// | A7 / Bb C ] - middle section variation
Were you aware of those chords? Did you play the backing or is that a track you got from someplace? How did you come up with the progression?
Being aware of the harmony and targeting chord tones in your solos will make your playing much more sophisticated sounding.

Btw I hear a lot of Maiden and Yngwie influence in there
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Jul 25, 2012,
#101
Quote by Hydra150
Check this out;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5ms7jXIfrk
It's you.
The chords for that track are;
[: Dm ///| Bb ///| C ///| Dm ///:]
[Dm ///| Bb ///| C /// | A7 / Bb C ] - middle section variation
Were you aware of those chords? Did you play the backing or is that a track you got from someplace? How did you come up with the progression?
Being aware of the harmony and targeting chord tones in your solos will make your playing much more sophisticated sounding.

Btw I hear a lot of Maiden and Yngwie influence in there

Haha I'm flattered you would go out of your way to find the chords in one of my songs.

I didn't play any of those chords though, it was just the Ab and Db strings on frets 7,9 then 3, 5, and then 5,7 if you get what I mean. They make the sound that those chords would make sure, but I'm not placing my fingers in the shapes that would be considered a Dm chord or Bb chord, etc. Or are you saying, that if chords were played with those riffs, it would be those chords you have posted, that would be played behind the riffing in order to make harmony?

I did play the backing track myself. Every thing I do in a song is from me, except the drums which are from EZ drummer. I just wanted a simple backing track so that I could solo over it. I didn't plan out a progression or anything, it's just what sounded good at the time, "guess and check" if you will.. Also good to hear the Maiden and Yngwie influence comment, but I don't fully get what people mean by influence though. Does that mean people think I TRY to play like them on purpose? or is it like a "you've listened to them a lot and so it has filled your brain with these type of melodic ideas that would be in a Maiden and Yngwie style"?
Last edited by Who Sh0t Ya HxO at Jul 25, 2012,
#102
Its not a bad thing to be influenced, so don't worry about it. Its when you blatantly knock off riverine that you should start worrying.

In another note, I couldn't help but notice you described power chords using fret numbers.
1. You should learn the notes on the fretboard. It will help more then anything right now.
2. You should take that knowledge, and learn how to use it to create power chords, and major/minor scales. Then chords, if you get passed this anti chord thing you've got going in.
Understand nothing, in order to learn everything.

Quote by liampje
I can write a coherent tune ... But 3/4? I play rock, not polka.
#103
Quote by vampirelazarus

1. You should learn the notes on the fretboard. It will help more then anything right now.
2. You should take that knowledge, and learn how to use it to create power chords, and major/minor scales. Then chords, if you get passed this anti chord thing you've got going in.


Yep.

You said that you basically came about that progression using geusswork/trial and error - if you knew theory you would be able to deduce which chords would sound good with each other, and why. Learning the basics of your instrument would take away the geusswork. If you learned about the chords you would be able to improvise better.
And yes, you may have been playing D5, Bb5 and C5 powerchords but the progression and the soloing implied the harmony of Dm, Bb and C, you were just one string/note away from playing full chords.

And you're supposed to take the 'influence' thing as a complement. If I say you sound like you were influenced by a the sound of bag of cats being emptied onto an out-of-tune banjo, then you can take it as an insult.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
Last edited by Hydra150 at Jul 26, 2012,
#104
Quote by Who Sh0t Ya HxO
Haha I'm flattered you would go out of your way to find the chords in one of my songs.

I didn't play any of those chords though, it was just the Ab and Db strings on frets 7,9 then 3, 5, and then 5,7 if you get what I mean. They make the sound that those chords would make sure, but I'm not placing my fingers in the shapes that would be considered a Dm chord or Bb chord, etc. Or are you saying, that if chords were played with those riffs, it would be those chords you have posted, that would be played behind the riffing in order to make harmony?

I did play the backing track myself. Every thing I do in a song is from me, except the drums which are from EZ drummer. I just wanted a simple backing track so that I could solo over it. I didn't plan out a progression or anything, it's just what sounded good at the time, "guess and check" if you will.. Also good to hear the Maiden and Yngwie influence comment, but I don't fully get what people mean by influence though. Does that mean people think I TRY to play like them on purpose? or is it like a "you've listened to them a lot and so it has filled your brain with these type of melodic ideas that would be in a Maiden and Yngwie style"?

Try this them, play the chords Hydra gave you over your own track - don't just strum them in open positions though play around and experiment with them. See if you can find a way of using them that really compliments what you've already done and hear how those extra chord tones work with what you've already done.

My suggestion is this - you've already got the lower end of the register covered with your power chords so play around with the higher notes, for example you can fret a full chord shape but just play the top three strings, or try and find some voicings higher up the neck, or even past the 12th. Remember chords aren't defined by shapes, just the notes they contain and in turn the sound they produce. SO it doesn't matter where you decided to put your fingers, if you've got the right notes you've got a chord, implied or itherwise.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#105
Quote by Hydra150

What do you normally do with a brochure? Take a look at what they're sellin, and, if interested, buy the shit. You were lookin to shell out a ton of money for Tom Hess lessons earlier and, while I cant compare their methods as I have never been a student of either, Sean comes off as a much nicer chap with a passion for helping people who want to learn (and I assume people have spelled out the common complaints about Hess earlier in this thread - if not, searchbar his name, there are a few fun threads about him).


Yeah I'm a recent ex-student of Hess's and my view is that he's a bell-end. I asked "What is music" with a view to opening up a nice thread on how people look at music, what they think of different kinds of music, &c. Tom's advice was:

"I simply advise you all to ask a higher quality question which has a greater chance to bring value to yourself as a musician ..."

Any guitar teacher or musician that doesn't consider that question to add value to what they're doing is a bloody fool. Or someone who believes speed is more important than musicality. Tom might be lightning fast on the guitar but endless scalar passages in the style of Classical music? It was done to ****ing death. By Ritchie Blackmore. Over 30 years ago. It's dead. Just let it be. Dear God, please won't you stop flogging that poor, decomposing horse?

On top of that his constant management-speak bullshit pissed me off. Cutting the word 'luck' out of the dictionary and flushing it down the toilet because "you make your own luck" is one of the worst ideas I have ever heard. You don't choose your parents, you don't choose where you grow up or what kind of environment you live in. Sure you have to work hard but to deny that luck just doesn't exist is ****ing stupid and you'd have to be a real knucklehead to ruin your dictionary just because your teacher had some kinda brainstorm today. Sure positive thinking can help - ain't nothing wrong with that - but there comes a point when it's just delusional. You can think positive all you like - if you look like Quasimodo you're not going to be in Destiny's Child.

Finally - there's a culture on Tom's forum where everything Tom says is great and you've not allowed to disagree. Well **** that. Any teacher who is unable to deal with doubt or questioning without a dogmatic response just doesn't have what it takes to be a real teacher, IMO. Real teachers aren't afraid of being wrong because they're still learning themselves.

Tom might might be a fast player, and some of his advice might be right but he doesn't tell you anything you can't find out elsewhere: Be organised, have goals, know stuff about music, practice your instrument - it's not exactly rocket science. Just because he's right sometimes doesn't mean he's not the hundredth idiot.
Last edited by Sleepy__Head at Aug 20, 2012,
#106
Not to not to mention that if I cut 'Luck' out of my dictionary I would lose the words 'low' and 'lower' on the opposite side of that page.
But boys will be boys and girls have those eyes
that'll cut you to ribbons, sometimes
and all you can do is just wait by the moon
and bleed if it's what she says you ought to do
#107
Quote by Hydra150
Not to not to mention that if I cut 'Luck' out of my dictionary I would lose the words 'low' and 'lower' on the opposite side of that page.


Indeed. And also have a ruined dictionary. And feel a bit stupid. And have a bit of paper with the word 'Luck' on it stuck to the inside of your bog.
#108
I strongly advice ALL of you to not even go near this scam-artist.
You won't learn anything useful but loose a lot of money on material that you easily can find for free!
#110
^^^ Ordinarily I would, but having an established Tom Hess thread has his followers some place to go rather than creating new threads.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#111
at least this was just a guy agreeing with us. i hate those hess-kids who google this dumb thread to bump it
Quote by theogonia777
Hail killed MT

Quote by jongtr
I want to be Hail when I grow up.
#112
Hail you're just jealous because I paid $16,000 for Tom Hess's ultimate sweep frenzy part.2 and can play ultra-advanced 3-string sweeps better than you.
#113
^^^^ Guys what would you know?? Are you famous? Nough said.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
Soundcloud
#114
Holy shit.


Where did this come from?
Understand nothing, in order to learn everything.

Quote by liampje
I can write a coherent tune ... But 3/4? I play rock, not polka.
#115
From the lowest circle of musical hell.

Tom Hess sucks. He's not even famous. And he's a jerk.
Quote by Hail
oh shut up with that /mu/ bullshit. fidget house shouldn't even be a genre, why in the world would it deserve its own subgenres you twat
#116
Quote by Hydra150
Not to not to mention that if I cut 'Luck' out of my dictionary I would lose the words 'low' and 'lower' on the opposite side of that page.


Tom might reply that you don't need 'low' and 'lower' in your dictionary either. Think 'HIGH' and 'HIGHER'!
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