RoCk KeATeS
Tranquility
Join date: Jun 2005
499 IQ
#1
I just had a thought,

Say I start with a C chord, then F and then G. And I play through that a few times. Could i then switch from the G to C and D because they are the 4th an 5th starting from G. And then could i go from the D to G and then an A? Does it work like that? Or it cant because it changes the key?
20Tigers
1
Join date: Jun 2008
640 IQ
#2
yeah you can do that.

All that matters is you are pleased with how it sounds.
Si
AeolianWolf
Tonal Vigilante
Join date: Jul 2009
186 IQ
#3
Quote by 20Tigers
yeah you can do that.


and you probably will.

Quote by 20Tigers
All that matters is you are pleased with how it sounds.


and you probably won't be.

try it out, see what you think. whether you like it or not, it's more experience - you learn just as much from what not to do as you would from what to do.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
Sleepy__Head
A cornucopia of trivia
Join date: Jul 2011
54 IQ
#4
Um?

Well look - it's music and music is an artform so you can do what you like. If Ligeti can write a piece for 100 metronomes then you can certainly use whatever chords you like to express yourself.

Honestly not sure what you're asking though? Are you wanting help with changing keys or something like that?
Quote by Hail
oh shut up with that /mu/ bullshit. fidget house shouldn't even be a genre, why in the world would it deserve its own subgenres you twat
aerosmithfan95
Tab Contributor
Join date: Jul 2008
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#5
You can do that as long as it sounds pleasing to your ears. And I think I should state this "Music theory is NOT a set of rules, it just describes the sounds you make."
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AlanHB
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#6
Also Roman numerals are lower case for minor, upper case for major. I came in here ready to school you about your I iv you have there but then realised it wasn't relevant to the question.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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seljer
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Join date: Apr 2005
1,381 IQ
#7
There are quite a few songs which do the 'lets take a ride around the entire circle of fifths' thing, for example Hendrix's Hey Joe where it goes C -> G -> D -> A -> E
Sleepy__Head
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#8
And then there's always backcycling to consider.
Quote by Hail
oh shut up with that /mu/ bullshit. fidget house shouldn't even be a genre, why in the world would it deserve its own subgenres you twat
AeolianWolf
Tonal Vigilante
Join date: Jul 2009
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#10
Quote by RoCk KeATeS
im not asking if you HAVE to do this i just know that if i was jaming on c f and g and i wanted to change the chords for a diffferent sound, by using the 1, 4th and 5th chord method that means G C and D chords come next and it should still sound ok, right?


frankly, i'm surprised that you've been waiting on our opinions for 16 hours and it hasn't occurred to you to try it yet. it's exactly like i told you in the first post - you should absolutely do it, and you probably will not like the sound.

just go do it and stop theorizing.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
Sleepy__Head
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#11
Quote by RoCk KeATeS
im not asking if you HAVE to do this i just know that if i was jaming on c f and g and i wanted to change the chords for a diffferent sound, by using the 1, 4th and 5th chord method that means G C and D chords come next and it should still sound ok, right?


If you want to change to a different key
and you want that key to be G
and you want to keep the I IV V progression
then the chords you'll need are G C and D.
Quote by Hail
oh shut up with that /mu/ bullshit. fidget house shouldn't even be a genre, why in the world would it deserve its own subgenres you twat
HotspurJr
Registered User
Join date: Jul 2011
191 IQ
#12
Quote by AlanHB
Also Roman numerals are lower case for minor, upper case for major. I came in here ready to school you about your I iv you have there but then realised it wasn't relevant to the question.


wot? u mean capital letter matter? wtf, dude! lol!
RoCk KeATeS
Tranquility
Join date: Jun 2005
499 IQ
#13
Quote by AeolianWolf
frankly, i'm surprised that you've been waiting on our opinions for 16 hours and it hasn't occurred to you to try it yet. it's exactly like i told you in the first post - you should absolutely do it, and you probably will not like the sound.

just go do it and stop theorizing.


omg dude get off my back, i havnt waited for 16 hours for anything i tried this before i even posted the thread. And your right I didnt like it, im trying to wrap my head around theory. And no i havnt been playing for 7 years i shattered my left wrist which means i was in physio for 3 years.
AeolianWolf
Tonal Vigilante
Join date: Jul 2009
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#14
Quote by RoCk KeATeS
omg dude get off my back, i havnt waited for 16 hours for anything i tried this before i even posted the thread. And your right I didnt like it, im trying to wrap my head around theory. And no i havnt been playing for 7 years i shattered my left wrist which means i was in physio for 3 years.


so if you tried it and didn't like it, why are you wasting our time asking whether "it should sound okay"? if you did it before you even posted the thread, why did you even make the thread? your logic just doesn't make sense. not to mention i don't see anything in this thread that relates to you having played for 7 years -- which just leads me to believe you're looking for an outlet to make excuses. even if that were the case that someone had brought up the length of time you've been playing, and you shattered your wrist, leaving you in a 3-year hiatus, why did you not use that time to wrap your head around the theory?

if i give you the answer you need and you're telling me to "get off your back", then, combined with your brand of logic, your choice to make excuses, and your tendency to waste time, it should be evident to you why your results have been so minimal.

you need to drop the attitude and start thinking for yourself if you want to improve.
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
Sleepy__Head
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Join date: Jul 2011
54 IQ
#15
Quote by HotspurJr
wot? u mean capital letter matter? wtf, dude! lol!


Yeah, really.

I = Tonic Major
i = Tonic Minor

I IV V = Tonic Major, Subdominant Major, Dominant (Major)
i iv V = Tonic Minor, Subdominant Minor, Dominant (Major)

I say Dominant (Major) because v (a minor chord built on the dominant) doesn't function as a Dominant chord. And that's because the 3rd of a minor chord built on the Dominant note is a flattened leading note, is a tone away from the tonic, and so doesn't have as great a pull towards it. Try it and you'll see what I mean:

C F G C
C F g C

The second progression doesn't sound as emphatic as the first.

Not that that means "You shouldn't use this". It's more a case of "If you want that sound use that progression, otherwise don't".
Quote by Hail
oh shut up with that /mu/ bullshit. fidget house shouldn't even be a genre, why in the world would it deserve its own subgenres you twat
AlanHB
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#16
Quote by Sleepy__Head

C F G C
C F g C

The second progression doesn't sound as emphatic as the first.


I'm not sure about "empathetic", but it's pretty likely that the first progression is in C major and the second in F major. Of course the function of the chords will change.

What I was pointing out about the I - iv is that it is much more likely to be an I - v, arguably the strongest cadence there is.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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Sleepy__Head
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#17
Quote by AlanHB
I'm not sure about "empathetic", but it's pretty likely that the first progression is in C major and the second in F major. Of course the function of the chords will change.

What I was pointing out about the I - iv is that it is much more likely to be an I - v, arguably the strongest cadence there is.


Ah, but the point I was making is that I V is strong, while I v is weaker. One way of demonstating that is to play a I IV V I progression, and then play a I IV v I progression and notice the difference the minor chord makes to the sense of "arrival" (or emphasis, or conclusion, or some other word that tends to get used to indicate whatever it is one feels / thinks / understands when one hears a progression that finishes on the tonic).

Yeah it's more likely that I IV v I is going to sound like V I ii V in the subdominant, but that's kinda what I'm driving at. Replace V with v and it sounds much weaker.
Quote by Hail
oh shut up with that /mu/ bullshit. fidget house shouldn't even be a genre, why in the world would it deserve its own subgenres you twat
jazz_rock_feel
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Join date: Jun 2006
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#18
Interestingly an equally valid system to uppercase major, lower case minor is all uppercase.

So instead of: I ii iii IV V vi vii
You get: I II III IV V VI VII

(Of course context and purpose would dictate which you use. Obviously the latter is useless without notation.)

And now...
AlanHB
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#19
Quote by Sleepy Head

Yeah it's more likely that I IV v I is going to sound like V I ii V in the subdominant, but that's kinda what I'm driving at. Replace V with v and it sounds much weaker.


I'm not talking about "sounding like" anything, I'm talking about an actual shift of tonic. Just look at the second progression. It's a V - I cadence followed by ii - V standard jazz ending thing (technical name escapes me now).
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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Sleepy__Head
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#20
Quote by AlanHB
I'm not talking about "sounding like" anything, I'm talking about an actual shift of tonic. Just look at the second progression. It's a V - I cadence followed by ii - V standard jazz ending thing (technical name escapes me now).


*headdesk*

Yes, I can see that. Clearly I'm not explaining myself very well. The progression's isn't important in the context of the point I'm making. The point I'm making is that a minor chord built on the dominant tone doesn't function as a Dominant chord.

Do you have anything to say about the point that a minor chord built on the dominant tone doesn't function as a Dominant chord?
Quote by Hail
oh shut up with that /mu/ bullshit. fidget house shouldn't even be a genre, why in the world would it deserve its own subgenres you twat
Last edited by Sleepy__Head at Nov 9, 2012,
Sleepy__Head
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#21
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
Interestingly an equally valid system to uppercase major, lower case minor is all uppercase.


Indeed. Personally I prefer the upper / lower / major / minor system because it adds a bit more detail, but there's nothing wrong with using all upper / all lower / a mixture as long as it's clear what's going on.
Quote by Hail
oh shut up with that /mu/ bullshit. fidget house shouldn't even be a genre, why in the world would it deserve its own subgenres you twat
AlanHB
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#22
Quote by Sleepy__Head
Do you have anything to say about the point that a minor chord built on the dominant tone doesn't function as a Dominant chord?


Sure do. If the dominant tone is not in fact the dominant tone due to the tonic not being where you think it is, the argument is moot.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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Sleepy__Head
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#23
And if the tonic is where you think it is, and the dominant tone is definitely the dominant tone?
Quote by Hail
oh shut up with that /mu/ bullshit. fidget house shouldn't even be a genre, why in the world would it deserve its own subgenres you twat
AlanHB
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#24
Quote by Sleepy__Head
And if the tonic is where you think it is, and the dominant tone is definitely the dominant tone?


Sure. But this is not the case in your examples.

If you must have a minor chord built off the dominant , I'm under the impression this could only occur in a minor key. And that's about all I have to say about that
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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Sleepy__Head
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#25
Quote by AlanHB
Sure. But this is not the case in your examples.

If you must have a minor chord built off the dominant , I'm under the impression this could only occur in a minor key. And that's about all I have to say about that


Yes I accept that it's not the case in the example I gave, but I didn't really want to get snarled up in that particular example - it was the general thrust of the "v-isn't-a-dominant chord" thing I was aiming at.

Ah well, I got snarled up anyway.

I'm going to go bang my head against the wall now.
Quote by Hail
oh shut up with that /mu/ bullshit. fidget house shouldn't even be a genre, why in the world would it deserve its own subgenres you twat
mdc
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#26
Quote by AlanHB
SAnd that's about all I have to say about that

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