jesus=dinosaur
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Join date: Aug 2010
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#1
Alright iv done some research on what i want and i think iv got a pretty good idea, but I know it would be a good idea to check with people more knowledgable than me. I want to get an interface and mic so i can do basic recordings at home and jams and stuff. I have a budget of around 400$ for everything but can go more if i need to. What im looking at now is a shure sm57 because it seems pretty recommended and is pretty good for what i understand, and a tascam dp 02cf interface. Its an 8 track, digital and has a cd burner so from what i understand i could make some alright sounding demos, obviously nothing really high quality, but good enough for what im trying to get and in my price rang.
What im asking you guys is is this an alright beginners setup and is it good for in my price range, or is there something better i should be looking at?
Id rather not get software or things to plug into my computer because my computer sucks, but i would like to be able to plug in my interface and download what i recorded onto my computer so i can post stuff online.
thanks!
GaryBillington
Last of a Dyin' Breed
Join date: Nov 2001
238 IQ
#2
Yes, that's not a bad setup to get going with - should last you until you start needing more tracks.

The SM57 is one of the "industry standard" mics so that will last you a lifetime, and Tascam's multitrack DAWs are among the best out there. The one you've chosen is their more basic model, but if you're only interested in being able to record yourself as opposed to getting into recording as a separate hobby then it will be more than enough.

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GaryBillington
Last of a Dyin' Breed
Join date: Nov 2001
238 IQ
#4
There will be - although I'm not from the US so I don't know how prices will translate.

The Tascam 2488NEO costs around £650 here in the UK new, but regularly sells for around £3-400 used - less for the earlier versions. However, as that is being replaced by the DP-24, prices are likely to drop on it so you could possibly find a real bargain.

Then there's the Zoom R series - either the R16 or R24. Both have 8 inputs and the 24 includes a drum machine. Although they can be used as a standalone DAW, they are designed to be used in conjunction with a PC based system so may not meet all your requirements but both will probably be within your budget.

Also check out Boss, but they are likely to be out of reach for what you need. Their basic model (BR-80) is an excellent piece of kit for what it is, but it doesn't have the extra capacity you're looking for. Their larger units are often double the price of other manufacturers, so you're unlikely to find anything by them.

As you're on a fairly low budget, I'd recommend surfing around eBay to find used kit. There are always loads of used multitrackers on there so you can find some real bargains.

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#5
NO don't do it ,.. I had a Zoom and before that a tascam 8 track tape before a yamaha 4track

GO COMPUTER all the way plus another 10 miles !!

get Reaper FREE version or $60 and get a 8 input USB interface for $200 ( or just get a 2 input for less then a $70 after you record the song with a open mic you will re-record singly anyway)

you have far FAR more power with the computer in recording, song writing, recorded tone, mixing, mastering etc etc etc..
those all in one machines are SHIT ( bouncing tracks, getting good sound, NO plugins, NO real midi control, the only useful thing is being able to connect them to a computer and being used as a control interface by sonar/protools etc )

that don't even compare to a full reaper/protools/sonar/live computer system.

once you get a good i5 intel ( i7 better ) $400 maybe $500 you will never look back

you will progress and buy more gear and software over time But you should start now learn evolve and grow with each level.
Last edited by T4D at Nov 28, 2012,
GaryBillington
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238 IQ
#6
^ Despite claiming to have owned one, this guy obviously doesn't know much about multitrackers. For the average person who just wants to record himself, they can do everything that software can, and because they are designed to do the job you'll actually be getting a whole lot more for your money unless you really started buying the higher end interfaces etc.

If you want to get into recording & mixing as a serious thing, potentially even a career, then obviously a PC based solution is the answer, but if you just want a hassle free solution that will be easy to use with minimal impact on your current guitar time then a multitracker is the way to go.

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#7
Quote by GaryBillington
^ Despite claiming to have owned one, this guy obviously doesn't know much about multitrackers. For the average person who just wants to record himself, they can do everything that software can, and because they are designed to do the job you'll actually be getting a whole lot more for your money unless you really started buying the higher end interfaces etc.

If you want to get into recording & mixing as a serious thing, potentially even a career, then obviously a PC based solution is the answer, but if you just want a hassle free solution that will be easy to use with minimal impact on your current guitar time then a multitracker is the way to go.


I sold my Zoom hd16 when I got Reason working on my old PC..
you say I'm wrong then you confirm what I say by admitting a PC setup has more power and options..

Despite sounding like a know it all,.. YOU clearly have not used Reaper or setup a computer to record,. if you think it's complicated or "too serious" ?

maybe you should try window 7 and reaper ? check the reaper forums alot more support there then trying to get zoom support ... and maybe check youtube for tutorials if it get all too complicated or "too serious"

if you want to record seriously get a computer if you just want just demo buy a mic for your iphone better that then waste money on any of the Zoom R series ..

You can't uses a zoom/Tascam as a song writing tool,
You can't uses a zoom/Tascam as a mastering tool,
You can not rearrange a song or test different tracks over each other or shift tracks over the timeline easily and accurately.
You can not interactive change your virtual mic placement or amp setting. ( you have NO plugins like line 6 or amplitube or professional reverbs, compression etc etc )
You can not bring in samples in easily
You have no good virtual instruments or real midi control ( not that important at first but you do use midi more, the more you see what it can do )
You have no drum track library to copy paste rough out timings.
You have no multiply takes management ( record the same solo over and over then pick which the best notes bring to the final solo ) also great for vocals
You have no pitch correction ( melodyne etc )
You have NO WORKFLOW options only what ZOOM gives you.( big wall around you )

so it's learn the zoom/Tascam way,. OR learn the way the reason of the world records and writes music....

YEAH zoom/Tascam/all in one recorders are "simpler",. but so is a guitar with only one string....
Last edited by T4D at Nov 28, 2012,
GaryBillington
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Join date: Nov 2001
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#8
Actually, I use a Tascam, not a Zoom. If you think only Zoom make multitrackers, you've already proved your ignorance

I've looked at Reaper when I last upgraded my multitracker and it doesn't offer me anything that I don't get from a hardware based solution. To respond to your points one at a time (obviously replacing 'Zoom' with 'Tascam' in my case, but I know that Zoom's equipment has similar functionality):

You can't uses a zoom as a song writing tool,
Of course you can! I use it all the time. All you are saying here is that you work in a different way, and that is a purely subjective statement. My Tascam works perfectly for me, allowing me to record multiple takes & experiment with different ideas before selecting my favourite.

You can't uses a zoom as a mastering tool,
I'm not sure how you figured this out, I've used a number of different multitrackers and they all prove your statement wrong.

You can not rearrange a song or test different tracks over each other or shift tracks over the timeline easily and accurately.
Rearranging, (assuming you mean moving a chorus to later in the song etc) is possible simply by copying & pasting that section of a track to where you want it. Admittedly you have to do it one track at a time so if you're comparing it to the ability to rearrange a whole song at once you can't do it, but it is possible. Testing different tracks over each other is achieved simply by having more than one track recorded and listening to how they work together. When I shift tracks to another part of the timeline it can be done to the nearest thousandth of a second. That's quite accurate.

You can not interactive change your virtual mic placement or amp setting. ( you have NO plugins like line 6 or amplitube or professional reverbs, compression etc etc )
I don't use virtual mics. I have real mics

You can not bring in samples in easily
I don't use samples - I play my instruments

You have no good virtual instruments or real midi control ( not that important at first but you do use midi more, the more you see what it can do )
See above - I play real instruments, no virtuality is required.

You have no drum track library to copy paste rough out timings.
I have a drum machine for this - it serves my needs perfectly. This is also the statement that proves what I said about you not knowing much about multitrackers & their capabilities. You claim to have owned a Zoom HD16 - that includes a pretty good drum machine which is fully programmable, yet you're saying you can't even do rough timings? You obviously didn't read very much of the manual.

You have no multiply takes management ( record the same solo over and over then pick which the best notes bring to the final solo ) also great for vocals
I can do as many takes as I want - I don't know how many my Tascam can store, but I've never run out of them. Maybe I don't have the ability to edit the different tracks together note by note (don't know about this, I've never tried), but I can pick the best played version of the solo & I'd much rather spend a couple of hours playing my guitar to get it right instead of spending a day patching together different notes from different tracks using software. I play my instruments, I don't programme them using a PC.

You have no pitch correction ( melodyne etc )
Talented people don't need it.

You have NO WORKFLOW options only what ZOOM gives you.( big wall around you )
I have more than enough options for what I need - I've never found any of my kit limiting in any way.


I've had this debate a few times with some very knowledgable people in these forums, and every point they've put forward about the advantages of software can be matched by the advantages you get from a purpose built hardware solution for a typical hobbyist. With the exception of autotune & VSTs, everything that has been said to me about things that aren't possible with multitrackers was incorrect.

I'm not under any illusion that the work I produce is of studio quality, but then I don't expect it to be - I'm not a professional. If I wanted to create a professional recording, I'd get a professional to do it. My hobby is playing guitar, not recording. Recording is just something I do to supplement my main hobby. Recording for me is kind of like the salad you get with a steak dinner - my guitar & amp are the meat & potatoes, recording is just there to full up the plate.

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Last edited by GaryBillington at Nov 28, 2012,
T4D
30 guitars and counting..
Join date: Apr 2005
190 IQ
#9
I'm not under any illusion that the work I produce is of studio quality, but then I don't expect it to be - I'm not a professional. If I wanted to create a professional recording


good for you then tiger

but again .. your attitude to recording is like play guitar with one string.

I'm not a profession guitarist so why should I use all 6 strings ??

YES you can record a song using a Tascam, BUT you can also record a song with your iPhone ? your not profession so why do you care ??

it's 2012 ,. software is EASY to use, computers have past any issues 5 or more years ago.

I've had this debate a few times with some very knowledgable people in these forums, and every point they've put forward about the advantages of software can be matched by the advantages you get from a purpose built hardware solution. With the exception of autotune & VSTs,


clearly you have no idea what autotune is used for OR how BIG the world of what audio plugins is in 2012..

everything that has been said to me about things that aren't possible with multitrackers was incorrect.


clearly you did not even read you own replies to my points ? your missing ALOT !!

your idea of a song writing tool is like writing on a piece of paper ,.

you don't even understand what mastering a track is ??

you do not know that different microphones,. well sound different !! AND are cheaper when Virtual, and how are you moving the mic to find the best placement when your playing ?? do you know the mic placement changes the sound ALOT ?

But it's good that you only play the instruments you own. but I personal can not afford Slashs Marshall ( he will not give it to me ) or the piano at Abbey road studio. can you ?

you think midi is ONLY to control the notes a Virtual instrument plays ..?? really ?

and to beat all that your a pitch perfect singer !!.. but for some reason do not want professional recordings ??

you are too far from even understanding the options and workflow advantages of software bases recording


Clearly by your own admission you've had this debate afew times and you are still too thick-headed and stubborn to open you eyes and see this thing your using RIGHT NOW to type your flavour of dumbness into the internet CAN be used to record music..

I salute you sir,.. you have a truly amazing attitude.. keep on rock'n tiger
Last edited by T4D at Nov 28, 2012,
GaryBillington
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Join date: Nov 2001
238 IQ
#10
Like I said, I've had this discussion before with some people who presented a far more intelligent argument than you are presenting. They were also intelligent enough to realise that I (and lots of other people) approach recording from a different perspective, a perspective from which using a multitracker makes perfect sense. However, if you really want to go there…..
good for you then tiger but again .. your attitude to recording is like play guitar with one string. I'm not a profession guitarist so why should I use all 6 strings ??
My attitude to recording is exactly what I said it was in the last post. It's merely an additional part of my guitar playing hobby, it's not a hobby in it's own right. If I wanted to get into recording as a completely separate thing, then I'd switch to software, as it is I just want something that can provide similar functionality with minimal effort and with minimal impact on my time. A multitracker works perfectly for that.

YES you can record a song using a Tascam, BUT you can also record a song with your iPhone ? your not profession so why do you care ?? it's 2012 ,. software is EASY to use, computers have past any issues 5 or more years ago.
I know software is easy to use - I manage software development projects so I'm fully aware of what can be done with it. I CHOOSE not to use it. So do lots of other people. We are not wrong, and neither are you. For some people a multitracker is the better option, for others software is the better option. The original post even said he'd looked into using software and decided it wasn't for him. That's his opinion, it matches my opinion which is why I replied with some advice. Just because it doesn't match your opinion doesn't make it wrong.

clearly you have no idea what autotune is used for OR how BIG the world of what audio plugins is in 2012..
The only things I plug in when I'm playing are my instruments. If I can't play it, I don't record it. My recordings are an accurate representation of what I could achieve in a live environment with a standard 5 piece band (2 guitars, bass, drums and vocals). I don't need any plugins to recreate that.

clearly you did not even read you own replies to my points ? your missing ALOT !!
I know exactly what I said. The bits I am missing are things I have no interest in.

your idea of a song writing tool is like writing on a piece of paper
My main songwriting tool is my acoustic guitar for the music, and yes, I do use a piece of paper for writing lyrics on. I simply use my multitracker to store the recording in the same way I use MS Word to store the final version of the lyrics.

you don't even understand what mastering a track is ??
You obviously don't understand what mastering capabilities are built into the equipment that is designed to do this sort of thing.

you do not know that different microphones,. well sound different !! AND are cheaper when Virtual, and how are you moving the mic to find the best placement when your playing ?? do you know the mic placement changes the sound ALOT ?
I use a selection of mics - 2 dynamic mics (an SM58 & a clone of an SM57), an SDC and an LDC. When recording I experiment with the different mics & different positions and pick what sounds best at the time. I do things for real, no virtuality is required.

But it's good that you only play the instruments you own. but I personal can not afford Slashs Marshall ( he will not give it to me ) or the piano at Abbey road studio. can you ?
Why would I want to? I want to sound like ME, not like someone else. To sound like me, I need my instruments & my amps.

you think midi is ONLY to control the notes a Virtual instrument plays ..?? really ?
Midi has lots of capabilities, none of them have any impact on how I play my guitar.

and to beat all that your a pitch perfect singer !!.. but for some reason do not want professional recordings ??
I didn't say that - I'm an OK singer, but not brilliant. I'm good enough to stay in tune most of the time, that’s all that is required. Like I said before, if I wanted professional recordings I'd get a professional to do them. My recordings are of a high enough quality that they sound good in my car & when I play them to friends. Until I'm in a band releasing a professional album, that is more than enough for me - and I have no intention of being the singer in a band, singing for me is kind of like recording, just something I have to do to support my guitar playing.

you are too far from even understanding the options and workflow advantages of software bases recording
And you sir, are too far from understanding the options and workflow advantages of a purpose built hardware DAW.


Clearly by your own admission you've had this debate afew times and you are still too thick-headed and stubborn to open you eyes and see this thing your using RIGHT NOW to type your flavour of dumbness into the internet CAN be used to record music..
I can see it. I CHOOSE to work in a different way. I spend all day at work sat at a PC, I don't want to spend all my weekends sat at one as well. My multitracker offers all the functionality I require and allows me to create finished recordings extremely easily and quickly - that is all I'm looking for. I've occasionally looked into switching to a software based solution, but so far each time I've upgraded my equipment I've chosen to stick with purpose build kit that offers all the functionality I need.

I salute you sir,.. you have a truly amazing attitude.. keep on rock'n tiger

Me =

You =

I'll keep rocking, you keep doing what you do

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#11
agree with most each to there own record to your style

But the point I wanted to make was...


Quote by GaryBillington
If I wanted to get into recording as a completely separate thing, then I'd switch to software, as it is I just want something that can provide similar functionality with minimal effort and with minimal impact on my time. A multitracker works perfectly for that.


Software is NOT in the way In fact I feel Software is MORE direct and has less impact and open more options then a multitracker..

visually you can see and edit everything in a most clear simpler interface.

Also have more options, musically, adding and editing

AND quality you can bring thing up to a profession level with alot less effort.

one last thing ..

your term "Mastering" your knowledge of mastering has me confused ..do you think mastering is just bouncing the final mix though a compressor ?
have you seen This , This or This ??
Last edited by T4D at Nov 28, 2012,
GaryBillington
Last of a Dyin' Breed
Join date: Nov 2001
238 IQ
#12
Of course I understand that Mastering is more than just compression. I also understand that I could use the products you listed & spend hours correcting every last imperfection, or I could spend a few minutes applying a few presets from my Tascam & choosing my favourite.

In my job as a software project manager, almost every project has a point where I have to make the decision that what is developed is good enough to be put into use. That is very rarely when it achieves perfection. We could keep developing & tweaking functionality forever, but I have to decide where to draw the line. Most of the extra functionality wouldn't get used by the majority of our customers, so there is no point developing it.

The same goes for recording - I could delve into the world of software and all the extra plugins etc it could offer me, but what would I actually gain? I still wouldn't have any interest in spending hours perfecting and tweaking a final mix, I'd get to to the point where I decide it's good enough and stop there. That point would be exactly where I get to with my current set up - having all the extras you think are vital would merely get in my way.

As for the effort required, check out the cover of Caroline on my profile (link in sig). I'd never claim it's perfect, but the drums were programmed in about 30 minutes, recording the guitars, bass & vocals took about 2 hours, and I spent about 20-30 minutes getting the final mix to where it is now. Add that up - about 3 hours for a completed song that sounds perfectly acceptable on all of my sound systems. It may not be professional quality, but it's good enough for what I need and that's all that matters.

I challenge you to complete a song from start to finish in that time using software.

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190 IQ
#13
Quote by GaryBillington

I challenge you to complete a song from start to finish in that time using software.


DONE the challenge is on, this Thursday night ( I finish work Thursday )
3 hours no problem,. I'll do a song and and have afew beers at the same time

By the way...
I done THIS in a weekend First night Done the song next day done the video clip.. ( the video clip did take longer then recording the song )
Last edited by T4D at Nov 28, 2012,
GaryBillington
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#14
3 hours, utilising all the VSTs & plugins you were talking about? I'll look forward to it

TS - apologies, your thread got a bit hijacked there. My original point stands, your choice of equipment is good considering the expectations you say you're going into it with, but hopefully today's discussion has made you a bit more informed about the other potential options should you decide to expand in the future.

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ChemicalFire
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441 IQ
#15
All the regs will side with GB on this one. He knows his Multitrackers.

Also if T4D can get an amazing sounding mix in only 3 hours I will be amazed.


Though just a word for wise T4D, you're coming across a douche, as with everything recording method is subjective. You may like Software but Multitracking is a perfectly valid recording method.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
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Last edited by ChemicalFire at Nov 28, 2012,
lockwolf
Recording's AdBot/Dick
Join date: Jun 2007
100 IQ
#16
Quote by ChemicalFire
Also if T4D can get an amazing sounding mix in only 3 hours I will personally figuratively eat my hat.


I'll jump in this and say I'll attempt to suck my own dick & film it. The only person I know that can do an amazing mix in 3 hours is Chris Lord-Alge but thats why he makes the big $$$$$.

As for the whole Multi-Track Vs Software & DAW, T4D is on crack. Mainly, I'm going to address this:


You can't uses a zoom/Tascam as a song writing tool,
You can't uses a zoom/Tascam as a mastering tool,
You can not rearrange a song or test different tracks over each other or shift tracks over the timeline easily and accurately.
You can not interactive change your virtual mic placement or amp setting. ( you have NO plugins like line 6 or amplitube or professional reverbs, compression etc etc )
You can not bring in samples in easily
You have no good virtual instruments or real midi control ( not that important at first but you do use midi more, the more you see what it can do )
You have no drum track library to copy paste rough out timings.
You have no multiply takes management ( record the same solo over and over then pick which the best notes bring to the final solo ) also great for vocals
You have no pitch correction ( melodyne etc )
You have NO WORKFLOW options only what ZOOM gives you.( big wall around you )


The first 2 just made me laugh as many smaller band have used Multi-Tracks to produce albums. Sure, they aren't as fancy, crisp & produced as a Pro Album but thats like racing a Honda Civic versus a Ferrari & expecting the Civic to beat the Ferrari by a mile.

As for moving tracks in and out, its not that hard, especially if you know your unit. I started on a Roland VS-880 Multitrack unit. Sure, its not as easy as a few clicks but once you know your unit, you can work just as fast as in a DAW.

My VS-880 has built in effects, even a few amp simulators so that point has no weight. Sure, the amp sims on it aren't as good as what we have nowadays but the thing was made in ****ing 1996, probably about 10 years before modeling started to get good.

Once again, bringing in samples isn't that hard if you know your unit.

Virtual Instruments & Drum Machines are relative to if you need them or not. Even then, I believe a good chunk of Multi-Tracks have some MIDI support (Gary, feel free to correct me here)

I had Multiple Take Management with my VS-880 so that point is thrown out the window.

Pitch Correction doesn't matter if you've got a good singer. If you need Pitch Correction, you or whoever is singing probably sucks ass at singing.

I'm trying to understand what you mean by workflow. Are you talking about going from your source into your DAW? Thats pretty much the same no matter how you go about it.

So, at the end of it, most of your bitching comes down to not knowing how to use your unit & just general bias about using a computer over a multi-track. I'd say spend 6 months using a multi-track then come back and re-evaluate that list, I'd say the only advantage you get with a computer is Virtual Instruments.
Derpy Derp Derp Herp Derp
Last edited by lockwolf at Nov 28, 2012,
GaryBillington
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#17
My work here is done

Quote by lockwolf
Virtual Instruments & Drum Machines are relative to if you need them or not. Even then, I believe a good chunk of Multi-Tracks have some MIDI support (Gary, feel free to correct me here)

I know my Tascam 2488MkII has a whole MIDI control function that I've not needed to delve into - I have no idea how comprehensive it is. I don't remember about my older kit, but I know they had the MIDI in/out sockets, so they must have done something!

This was actually one of my favourite parts of the debate - when he said they don't offer any drum capability, even though he used to have a Zoom HD16 which includes a pretty good drum machine!

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#18
funny you guys when you talk about your multi trackers say things like

"Sure, they aren't as fancy, crisp & produced as a Pro Album"
( why not just use what the pro's uses ? )

"Sure, its not as easy as a few clicks but once you know your unit."
( why not just uses afew clicks ? )

"even a few amp simulators so that point has no weight. Sure, the amp sims on it aren't as good as what we have nowadays"
( Why not just uses something with GOOD amp sims ? )

"bringing in samples isn't that hard if you know your unit"
( Why isn't it just easy ? )

"I believe a good chunk of Multi-Tracks have some MIDI support "
( Why don't you know ??? havn't you seen the advantages of using midi to change your Guitar patches as you record OR attach your wah to the tempo of the song ? )

"If you need Pitch Correction, you or whoever is singing probably sucks ass at singing."
( people used to say if you need a click track you have no rhythm..)


"I'm trying to understand what you mean by workflow"
( it's something you find when you don't have to work in a linear restrictive work environment )

"at the end of it, most of your bitching comes down to not knowing how to use your unit"

this is a classic ,. Change the word unit for software and it sound like this Dude ..

at the end of it, most of your bitching comes down to not knowing how to use your software..."


Quote by GaryBillington

I'm not under any illusion that the work I produce is of studio quality, but then I don't expect it to be - I'm not a professional. If I wanted to create a professional recording, I'd get a professional to do it. My hobby is playing guitar, not recording. Recording is just something I do to supplement my main hobby. Recording for me is kind of like the salad you get with a steak dinner - my guitar & amp are the meat & potatoes, recording is just there to full up the plate.



Quote by lockwolf
I'll jump in this and say I'll attempt to suck my own dick & film it. The only person I know that can do an amazing mix in 3 hours is Chris Lord-Alge but thats why he makes the big $$$$$..


this seem like a one side Judging panel .

GB does NOT have to sound profession Yet i have to be equal to Chris Lord-Alge ?

I still up for it if you know your software things work,. just like if you know you Multi tracker You will have no problem ,. I think Reaper has more support learning material and users then ALL the multi trackers combined.. so IMO learning would be easier for a newbie.

You all sound very much like Multi trackers without much knowledge of what protools etc has.. ( have you heard of templates ?)

And I never Said Multi tracking is a NOT valid recording method ? IMO it's had it's day and software is easier to use in 2012, more flexible, gives more options and higher quality.


I'll return here in 24 hours to start my project and finish in 3 hours ,. I will be using protools 10 it's my fav.
Last edited by T4D at Nov 28, 2012,
ChemicalFire
King of Bacon Pancakes
Join date: Oct 2007
441 IQ
#19
^Well yeah... GB isn't promising studio quality. He's promising acceptable quality.

Which has kinda been the point you've been missing the entire time.

And a lot of the regulars are probably far better sound producers than you so I'd watch who you say has little knowledge of things (not myself included, I'm pretty average at mixing)
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
Last edited by ChemicalFire at Nov 28, 2012,
crazysam23_Atax
Feuergesicht
Join date: Oct 2009
490 IQ
#20
So, all I've gotten out of this was that T4D likes using PC-based recording and GaryBillington likes MultiTrackers. I'm actually disappointed. I came in here hoping there'd be a few tips that might help my personal situation. All I got was an argument; you guys are really letting TS down.

Edit: Although, it sounds like GB was correct this whole time. It still really didn't help me or, I'm sure, the TS for you two to be arguing. That said, it sounds like T4D just didn't like the MultiTracker he bought and did like using a PC-based recording system. So, he ditched the MultiTracker and went with ProTools or whatever. (Ugh, even I groan about ProTools though.) Anyway...let's move on...

Anyway, I'm going to be running Reaper with a few VSTs. My recording chain will be:
Guitar -> Guitar Link Interface (give me $200, and I'll get something better; for now, it's what I can afford) -> PC -> Reaper.

Any advice on that setup or on using Reaper itself?
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Nov 28, 2012,
ChemicalFire
King of Bacon Pancakes
Join date: Oct 2007
441 IQ
#21
Good point.

On topic:

"The SM57 is the best" thing is mostly thrown around by people who don't know much about recording, it's the best for micing guitar cabs and snare drums... and that's about it. Really it depends on what you're going to be recording, with an acoustic guitar a nice matched stereo pair or an LDC is great, vocals is the LDC again.

I mean sure the SM57 will work on vocals, but it'll sound pretty flat... then again as you said you don't mind the quality then it could be okay.

Seriously T4D just get over yourself. TS stated why he didn't want to use software, who are you to tell him he's wrong in a such a subjective matter. He isn't looking to record the next Foo Fighters album, calm down.


It'd be like hiring an entire building crew to put up a garden shed instead of just using a hammer. Sure one will do it perfectly... but the results with a hammer will be perfectly fit for purpose.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



Quote by DisarmGoliath
You can be the deputy llamma of the recordings forum!
Last edited by ChemicalFire at Nov 28, 2012,
lockwolf
Recording's AdBot/Dick
Join date: Jun 2007
100 IQ
#22
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
So, all I've gotten out of this was that T4D likes using PC-based recording and GaryBillington likes MultiTrackers. I'm actually disappointed. I came in here hoping there'd be a few tips that might help my personal situation. All I got was an argument; you guys are really letting TS down.

Edit: Although, it sounds like GB was correct this whole time. It still really didn't help me or, I'm sure, the TS for you two to be arguing. That said, it sounds like T4D just didn't like the MultiTracker he bought and did like using a PC-based recording system. So, he ditched the MultiTracker and went with ProTools or whatever. (Ugh, even I groan about ProTools though.) Anyway...let's move on...

Anyway, I'm going to be running Reaper with a few VSTs. My recording chain will be:
Guitar -> Guitar Link Interface (give me $200, and I'll get something better; for now, it's what I can afford) -> PC -> Reaper.

Any advice on that setup or on using Reaper itself?


Welcome to the UG Recording Forums, where a simple question can bring out the essay writing in all of us.

Anyways, on topic (or at least to reply to your question), obviously you know the main hangup in your signal chain is the guitar link cable. Once you get the money to upgrade to a good interface like a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4, you'll notice the difference.

As far as using Reaper, start with watching a few basic "How To Use Reaper" videos. I'm not sure of any good ones to suggest (Pro Tools user here) but I'm sure if people stop fighting for a minute, someone can point you in the right direction.

^HINT HINT!^

After learning how to use it and getting a song tracked, I'd dive into a few videos on mixing. There are thousands since it seems like everyone with a DAW and a desktop capture program has 30 videos on how to mix. I personally like The Recording Revolution but like I said, there are thousands of videos so take your pick.
Derpy Derp Derp Herp Derp
T4D
30 guitars and counting..
Join date: Apr 2005
190 IQ
#23
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Anyway, I'm going to be running Reaper with a few VSTs. My recording chain will be:
Guitar -> Guitar Link Interface (give me $200, and I'll get something better; for now, it's what I can afford) -> PC -> Reaper.

Any advice on that setup or on using Reaper itself?


your right on all counts,. sorry about the Protools comment But I do enjoy it

all said and done there is NO wrong answer recording is a art form and what you choose to uses is well your artist decision. like what you hear GREAT if not keep searching.

First just get the cheapest usb interface you can from a well know brand ,nothing more then 2 or 3 years old ( make sure it's USB 2 NOT 1 ) and make sure it has drivers for Windows 7 or 8 ( this shows the drivers get updated around $50 it will work and best start before you line up for a pro interface before you know your workflow ,..it's very flexiable using software to record so you may develop your own special needs

maybe 4 output and only 2 inputs?
maybe need 4 of each or 10 ? ,.
maybe only need one input and use a standard sound card ?
maybe need mic preamps in the interface ?
maybe not and you go straight and mix in the software
maybe you are driving midi gear and need midi ports
maybe you want to use your effect pedal and gear inside reaper
maybe you want to connect digital drums into reaper

there ALOT of option best start cheap knock out afew songs and get a better idea how you want to work and get the gear that fits that workflow.

(I got something way over my needs a m-audio Delta 10/10 i never use all the ports all looking back i could have gotten something more well suited to my needs )

check the free amp sims and go hard in reaper

another option,. I have not got this BUT looking back a Line 6 guitar port ( very cheap also gives you amp farm for free.

I have used an X3 abit better then the Port ,. the X3 records 2 channels at once one straight, one with your effects very handy for editing later.

just go and get into reaper it's very good and the forums are alive and kicking


once you start you can keep it simple OR you can become the next Chris Lord-Alge the fact is you do control how far you want to go.
Last edited by T4D at Nov 28, 2012,
jesus=dinosaur
UG's gayest heterosexual
Join date: Aug 2010
10 IQ
#24
Well from what im understanding if i get an interface that can save what im recording on to something like a memory card or something, couldnt i just plug that in with what i recorded saved on it into my computer and then use software like reaper to use some of the things like reorganizing parts and using samples? If i enjoy working on things like this i definitly plan on getting better stuff like software, this is sort of to test the waters and be able to record demos
crazysam23_Atax
Feuergesicht
Join date: Oct 2009
490 IQ
#25
Quote by jesus=dinosaur
Well from what im understanding if i get an interface that can save what im recording on to something like a memory card or something, couldnt i just plug that in with what i recorded saved on it into my computer and then use software like reaper to use some of the things like reorganizing parts and using samples? If i enjoy working on things like this i definitly plan on getting better stuff like software, this is sort of to test the waters and be able to record demos

You could do that, but why not just get a Direct Input (DI) interface or use a mic and then use Reaper for recording, editing, etc.? Reaper is fully capable of doing the whole thing.
But honestly, if you're going to use Reaper, then the evaluation license never runs out (so, it's free until you decide to pay $60 for an actual license and the free version does everything the paid version does). Compare that to paying for a MultiTracker. You will, obviously, have to buy some sort of DI interface (see here) or a mic (Shure m57 is the standard for mic'ing amps/cabs), unless you already have one.

Tip: Don't just use any old mic, the recording will probably sound like garbage, if your mic isn't designed for mic'ing amps/cabs. I'm learning a LOT about what is likely to sound like crap lately.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Nov 28, 2012,
jesus=dinosaur
UG's gayest heterosexual
Join date: Aug 2010
10 IQ
#26
The tascam interface im looking at has a usb out for transferring everything, I just looked if it had a direct out because i didnt think of that before you guys mentioned it. It doesnt say direct out but isnt it pretty much the same thing?
GaryBillington
Last of a Dyin' Breed
Join date: Nov 2001
238 IQ
#27
The USB out on the Tascam you're looking at is for transferring the tracks you've recorded to your PC, so it will work for that if you choose to switch to software in the future.

The dp02 isn't actually an interface though - interfaces are designed for you to record direct to your PC. As you said in the first post, you want to start out with a standalone unit, that's what it is. If you want a multitracker that can also act as an interface to hook up directly to a software based DAW, I'd recommend the Zoom R16 which can work both ways.

The dp02 is a good enough unit to get you started and and like I said originally, it will last you until you outgrow the number of tracks it has (that's the only reason I got rid of my old 8 track that I'd been using for about 10 years and upgraded to a 24 track).

Even if you do switch to software in the future, a multitracker like that is a good thing to have lying around as it's far more portable, you can take it to band practices, jam sessions etc. without needing to pack up your whole PC.

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diabolical
Registered User
Join date: Apr 2005
40 IQ
#28
Why not just settle the argument and get the Zoom? The R16 or R24 both can be used as standalone or as audio interface so you can decide which way works better for you.

As a recording engineer I can tell you that hardware almost always trumps software in dependability. Some of these hardware recorders can go on forever if you don't abuse them/knock them around/spill beverages, etc. Software will give you more choices and be cheaper.