Page 7 of 7
#241
Quote by Philip_pepper
See, these flamboyant gays, I wonder if they act like that because they feel that they have to overdo it because society looks down on them? As a sort of "fuck you" to the norm? And maybe those who aren't flamboyant are also the ones most likely to stay in the closet longer.

Flamboyant men are the true revolutionaries.
#242
Quote by Philip_pepper
Even in places where homosexuality is legal there is still violence towards this group of people. Be it bullying or a physical attack.

Right, I understand that some, if not most, religions have a problems with gays, but is this the only place where core gay hate comes from?



Abrahamic religion is pretty much where it starts, infact, most religions don't particularly have a problem with homosexuality itself but rather with any form of sex outside of marriage, which homosexuality is (usualy) considered a part of.

Infact, we can pretty much trace the majority of modern hatred of homosexuality down to one man, Moses.
Moses is attributed as the author of the Biblical Book of Leviticus, and this is where we find the first mentioning of anti-homosexual sentiment in the scripture of a mainstream religion.
"A man shall not lie with another man as he would with a woman, it is an abomination."(Leviticus 18:22)

Y'see, Moses is considered as leading the Hebrew slaves away from Egypt and into the wilderness where they survived as nomads for 40 years before building their own nation in Israel. Leviticus is actualy an instructional book for how a group of people can survive a nomadic existence in the wilderness for a while and, once somewhere perminant to live has been found, settle down, breed and eventualy build a nation. It's rules generaly revolve around not wasting anything. For example;
Lev 19:19:
“Do not mate two different kinds of animals. Do not plant your field with two different kinds of seed. Do not wear clothing woven from two different kinds of thread."
The two different kinds of animals here are goats and sheep. They are pretty much self sustaining, they eat whatever vegitation that is around and they make more goats and sheep. Mating them together makes hybrids and hybrids are often infertile, which is pretty useless to an agricultural community.
Same goes for plants, planting two crops together can cause hybridisation, which can cause all sorts of unexpected developments in the plants. The resulting hybrids could have less seed, meaning less to grow next season, or the could be smaller or have less fruit growing on them. Of course, hybridisation may be advantagious, a new strain may be developed that results in bumper harvests, but nomadic people cannot afford to be messing around with already proven species of crops. They have to grow something that they know they can rely on in as short a period of time as possible before harvesting it and moving on. Seeds are considered as a valuable resource, they can be eaten and they can be used to grow more food so sowing two different types of seeds together is seen as wasting valuable resources.

The two different threads mentioned here actualy refers to wool and cotton, (because those are the only threads they had) which when weaved together in a single cloth will often cause the cloth to distort with washing because these two particular different threads will shrink and expand at different rates. In essence, you would be wasting much needed resources on clothing made from such a cloth because it would be useless after the first time it has been washed.

A homosexual union does not bare children, and having lots of children is paramount if you are planning on starting a nation and expanding its population into something big enough to be able to defend itself against other nations or raiders, as Moses appeared to be planning when we read the rest of Leviticus. It's all a part of this nomadic notion of not wasting valuable resorces, but in this case the valuable resorce is a man's sperm. Remember, there's a lot of agriculturalist thinking that's gone into the writing of the Book of Leviticus, so a man's sperm or 'seed' is thought of in a very similar way to any other seed, it musn't be wasted. Every person is expected to do their bit in this great plan that Moses had for the Hebrews, and 'doing their bit' would naturaly include pro-creation so Moses included the anti-homosexual part in his rules in Leviticus.
This notion of purposely multiplying to build large populations would seem to be an important theme to the decendants of those nomadic wanderers who founded Judaism and actualy compiled the Hebrew Bible that we take these quotes from. In the Hebrew Bible, God apparently told Adam and Eve, "Be fruitful, and multiply" (Genesis 1:22) and also said pretty much the exact same thing to Noah (Genesis 9:1) so we can consider that the leader of their ancestors, Moses, the guy who wrote the rules, considered anyone who carried out acts of homosexuality as going against his plans, and if this guy was raised as an Egyptian royal, as the legends say he was, he'd be used to belonging to a hirarchy that made the rules and where those who didn't do as they were told suffered extreme consequences. The Egyptians were also well known for the notion of enforcing law with religion. 'Do as you're told or the gods will be angry with you and punish you.' sort of thing, in fact the earliest version of the 10 Commandments is found in the Egyptian 'Book of the Dead', which was kind of an instructional text that everyone learned for how to successfully make it to the afterlife after one has died. In chapter 125 these early versions of the Commandments take the form of 'negative confessions' that the dead person has to recite to various gods when he descends to the hall of the 'Two Truths'.
For example;
"Hail, Neha-hau who comes from Re-stau, I have not killed man or woman." (You shall not murder)
"Hail, serpent Amenti who comes from the house of slaughter, I have not defiled the wife of a man." (You shall not commit adultery.)
"Hail, Shade-Eater who comes from the caverns which produce the Nile, I have not committed theft." (You shall not steal.)
"Hail, Aati who comes from Heliopolis, I have not foolishly set my mouth in motion against another man." (You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.)

There were basicaly 42 Egyptian commandments, (split up into 3 classifications of sins. Transgressions against Mankind, sins against gods and personal transgressions) each of which the person wishing to enter the afterlife had to announce to 42 different gods or 'judges' that they were not guilty of. If they failed to tell the truth, which was decided by the god Anubis weighing the heart of the person against a feather, their soul was eaten by a creature called 'Ammut' who was part crocodile, part lion, and part hippopotamus, basicaly a demon. Interestingly, Ammut was also sometimes said to stand by a 'lake of fire', an image that Christianity later adopted in it's depiction of Hell.

Anyway, I digress.
Fast forward a few hundred years after Moses and the first Kingdom of Israel is well and truly established. Leviticus, including it's line on homosexuality, had become a part of the Torah (first five books of the 'Hebrew Bible' or 'Tanakh') which is central the religion of Judaism which developed alongside the Kingdom of Israel, fast forward a little further and the Hebrew Bible is then considered as the Old Testament, scripture that is regarded as sacred to both Christianity and Islam, so as Judaism grew and developed into these different forms of Abrahamic religion, this anti-homosexuality sentiment was passed on. Abrahamic religion eventualy became world-wide with Christianity and Islam becoming to two biggest religions on the planet and the anti-homosexuality sentiment that originated in Leviticus was culturaly passed on to the majority of the earth's population via them so that even people who are not religious today can still have a 'cultural' hatred of homosexuality that has been passed down from their ancestors.
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Jan 7, 2013,
#244
People are ****ing morons.

Homophobia and Racism normally go hand in hand and I don't see a huge difference between these two types of ignorance.

Discrimination is a blight whatever type.

Besides, Jesus seemed more concerned with adultery. Homosexuality isn't mentioned as much as preachers like to tell us, whereas adultery is ****ing all over the Bible.
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Last edited by Mephaphil at Jan 7, 2013,
#246
ignorance and predetermined social ideas being passed on.
Knowledge is power
#247
All I've got from Slacker's post is that if Greece had done over Rome people would still be bumming away for days.
#248
All I do with all of Slacker's posts is scroll past it and think "Yeah, there's probably some good stuff in there."
#249
I usually don't end up agreeing or disagreeing with what he said. I'm always just in awe that he knows all this stuff.
___

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she was saying things like... do you want to netflix and chill but just the chill part...too bad she'll never know that I only like the Netflix part...
#250
Slacker killing mofos as usual. Thread is complete in my eyes.
Knowledge is power
#251
I have a friend at my school who is openly gay, meaning he'd say he's gay if somebody asked him if he was. Anyway, one night I was chilling with him in our hall's lounge and this girl we knew came over and started talking with us, and then just started asking us our opinions on big political issues, etc.

She flat out said to him that gay marriage is wrong. Like right to his face. Fun fact, she's a Republican. I had to tell her that religion shouldn't dictate the law in a secular country (or supposedly secular) and she got mad and my friend gave me a fist bump.

People just need to combat ignorance depending on the situation. If you can be calm about it to make them look like a raving lunatic, do that preferably, but if you have to get loud, go for it.
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You've clearly never read any Confuscius.

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On a different day
#252
Quote by Mephaphil


Besides, Jesus seemed more concerned with adultery. Homosexuality isn't mentioned as much as preachers like to tell us, whereas adultery is ****ing all over the Bible.
True.
The only time that homosexuality is mentioned in the New Testament is when Paul the Apostle (who never met Jesus personaly) criticises it by quoting the Old Testament rule. Jesus himself isn't recorded as having an opinion on it, although we can consider from his lessons of not judging others that he possibly had a 'live and let live' attitude about such things.

It's interesting to note that although adultry is frowned upon in the Bible, the notion of a man having several wives is not considered as immoral, especially in the Old Testament.

Quote by willT08
All I've got from Slacker's post is that if Greece had done over Rome people would still be bumming away for days.


That's pretty much it in a nutshell though. Hatred towards homosexuality is generaly a cultural thing, one that we can possibly trace to a source. If history had happened in any other way than it did, who knows what cultural attitudes could exist today?
#253
I'm baffled by it as well, despite understanding the power of cultural conditioning.

My family was watching television tonight, and from another room I heard them all groan. The kind of groan you'd make if you saw someone eating their own puke or if the other team scored a point. I actually thought they were watching some sport event for that reason, but when I went to see it was just a man kissing another man's hand. And they were recoiling in horror at this.

I think I'm more baffled by people's disgust than their moral qualms, however connected the two may be.

I'm disturbed by their reaction. Afterwards my little sister who's in elementary school was saying how the show was stupid because of two guys kissing, and I said "Why does that bother you? They're not hurting anyone." And she said "It hurts my soul!" She intentionally worded it cheesily but she totally meant it. It sucks that these horrible ideas are still going to be passed on to future generations.
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#254
Quote by fail
I'm baffled by it as well, despite understanding the power of cultural conditioning.

My family was watching television tonight, and from another room I heard them all groan. The kind of groan you'd make if you saw someone eating their own puke or if the other team scored a point. I actually thought they were watching some sport event for that reason, but when I went to see it was just a man kissing another man's hand. And they were recoiling in horror at this.

I think I'm more baffled by people's disgust than their moral qualms, however connected the two may be.

I'm disturbed by their reaction. Afterwards my little sister who's in elementary school was saying how the show was stupid because of two guys kissing, and I said "Why does that bother you? They're not hurting anyone." And she said "It hurts my soul!" She intentionally worded it cheesily but she totally meant it. It sucks that these horrible ideas are still going to be passed on to future generations.


That reminds me of Brokeback Mountain. I thought that movie would shift some people's ideas, but I guess not.
#255
Quote by fail
I'm baffled by it as well, despite understanding the power of cultural conditioning.

My family was watching television tonight, and from another room I heard them all groan. The kind of groan you'd make if you saw someone eating their own puke or if the other team scored a point. I actually thought they were watching some sport event for that reason, but when I went to see it was just a man kissing another man's hand. And they were recoiling in horror at this.

I think I'm more baffled by people's disgust than their moral qualms, however connected the two may be.

I'm disturbed by their reaction. Afterwards my little sister who's in elementary school was saying how the show was stupid because of two guys kissing, and I said "Why does that bother you? They're not hurting anyone." And she said "It hurts my soul!" She intentionally worded it cheesily but she totally meant it. It sucks that these horrible ideas are still going to be passed on to future generations.


That pretty much highlights the point that it doesn't necessarily take people blatantly being openly anti-homosexual for homophobia to culturaly continue. All it needs is for kids to see their parents reaction of discomfort when confronted by homosexuality.

I know a guy who owns an art gallery. He's got a wide variation of friends and also several kids, who are often in the gallery. The other day I was in there and this transvestite friend of his walked in wearing a big flowery dress, not one of his kids batted an eyelid while some of the adults who were there looked a bit uncomfortable. It actualy did me good to see that.
#256
I think its because its not "normal". I mean "normal" in a sense, its not how the vast majority of people experience sexuality. And humans are pretty much wired not to like things that arent "normal" for them. And then there is also the religious aspect, since religions tend to frown on this kind of thing. Thats basicly the reson i think.

However, it is really sad that in this day and age, some people still can't accept it. I'm fortunate enough to have parents that taught me that there is nothig wrong with that, as well as teachers that never judged homosexuality. Its nice to see that most of my comunity is open and not really judgmental of homosexuality.
Joža je kul. On ma sirove z dodatki pa hambije.
#257
You've got half the world saying theres nothing wrong with gays and gay marriage. Then youve got a 1/4th saying there's nothing wrong with gays but marriage is sacred blah shit ****...then you've got a select fourth of assholes who are scared of gays cuz they're different. The simple solution is grow up. Marriage is for two people who love each other and want to show their love in the form of a peculiar ceramony and ring. If you think gays are ruinig your marriage then you'be obviously got some problems to work out on your own.
#258
Also there's a wired cultural world psychiatric level of global consciousness that constructed the overall theme of homosexual distrust.back in the old frodo if the mates and myself sat in the theatre and projected after the cinematic feature concluded that the film was of gay nature we would collectively gather that the film was happy and of joyfull thoughts. Now, if that movie was ****ing gay it was a piece of shit, sucked. Until us humans cease to utter gay as if it were bad we would believe gay to be good on hitherlands.
#259
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers
Also there's a wired cultural world psychiatric level of global consciousness.

These words, they don't mean anything.
#260
Quote by jrcsgtpeppers
You've got half the world saying theres nothing wrong with gays and gay marriage. Then youve got a 1/4th saying there's nothing wrong with gays but marriage is sacred blah shit ****...then you've got a select fourth of assholes who are scared of gays cuz they're different. The simple solution is grow up. Marriage is for two people who love each other and want to show their love in the form of a peculiar ceramony and ring. If you think gays are ruinig your marriage then you'be obviously got some problems to work out on your own.


That's the part which really baffles me. According to Christians, marriage is a union of two people in the eyes of God (I don't know the exact wording, but I'm pretty sure it's similar). How does anyone else (regardless of gender) affect or devalue marriage?

At this point it seems like it's not even religion which is a cause of homophobia, just ignorant people misinterpreting it.

Forza Juve


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#261
I hate hearing people saying things like "Oh, I have nothing against gays, I just don't like homosexuality" or, in a variation of that, "God doesn't hate gays because they are gay, He just doesn't like homosexuality".

Like, oh, you actually asked Him and He told you that, did he?
#262
my favorite is "people can be gay if they want to, but i just don't agree with homosexuality."

Quote by bradulator
I still think you underestimate how much more conservative and closed off it is elsewhere, especially given that you don't live far away from an escape to something new and more liberal. At best i'd have to drive like 8 hours to experience something like that. People question things, sure, but many of them don't leave this place, or they leave and come back. I know this Christian dude who went to some Bible college in California for 4 years and now that he's back he is just amazed at how sheltered and non-exposed 80% of people here are. He's still a Christian, but he's fairly liberal now as a result of that exposure. Most people do not take it upon themselves to be exposed to such stuff, but while it is their fault, it is also a result of the environment, to a level that many parts of the country cannot understand.

I also have a friend who claimed to be really liberal and really was by the standards of where we are. She went to Sarah Lawrence in NY and came back and said how conservative she was compared to the people up there. I am super liberal compared to how the majority of people here are, but by the standards of UG even i'm not THAT liberal. When the Aurora shooting happened, the local theater announced on facebook that they were putting up signs prohibiting bringing guns into their theater and you wouldn't believe how many people said "**** you i'm never visiting your theater again" and other similar things in the comments section. It genuinely is a cultural thing that you can't understand unless you've experienced it. Judge if you must, but I still think you're wrong if you judge them in such a simplistic manner.

not treating lgbtq people as second class citizens isn't a conservative or liberal thing though. it's a human decency thing.
Last edited by due 07 at Jan 8, 2013,
#263
I really don't give a crap about them nor anyone's sexuality really.

I do find it a bit weird though how people can associate themselves so damn much with what hole they prefer to put their dick in. I can't for my life comprehend how that can more or less create an entire personality/lifestyle different from one of a straight one. It doesn't bother me. I just find it extremely weird and it must be extremely tiring/demanding to have that kind of feeling/need.

I wouldn't say (maybe I'm delusional to actually believe I'm not) I'm such a big straight stereotype and nor do I walk around and relate to whatever I do to my sexuality and the fact that I like to have sex with women. I really don't have that thought around me all the time but maybe it's just an instinct that comes through in whatever I do.
sometimes I see us in a cymbal splash or in the sound of a car crash
Last edited by JohnnyGenzale at Jan 8, 2013,
#264
Quote by solo_freak
That's the part which really baffles me. According to Christians, marriage is a union of two people in the eyes of God

And yet according to the scripture they follow, polygamy appears to be perfectly acceptable, especially in the Old Testament, so according to Christian scripture, marriage can actualy be a union of several more than just two people in the eyes of God.

The tradition of monogamy in Christianity was actualy introduced by the Romans, who, under the emperor Constantine the Great, adopted Christianity and took over it's running from the Jewish Christians. Under Roman law polygamy was illegal and had been since before the Romans adopted Christianity, so we can actualy consider monogamy as something that was originaly introduced by pagans.

Martin Luther once wrote: "I confess that I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the Scripture. If a man wishes to marry more than one wife he should be asked whether he is satisfied in his conscience that he may do so in accordance with the word of God. In such a case the civil authority has nothing to do in the matter."
#265
Quote by SlackerBabbath
And yet according to the scripture they follow, polygamy appears to be perfectly acceptable, especially in the Old Testament, so according to Christian scripture, marriage can actualy be a union of several more than just two people in the eyes of God.

The tradition of monogamy in Christianity was actualy introduced by the Romans, who, under the emperor Constantine the Great, adopted Christianity and took over it's running from the Jewish Christians. Under Roman law polygamy was illegal and had been since before the Romans adopted Christianity, so we can actualy consider monogamy as something that was originaly introduced by pagans.

Martin Luther once wrote: "I confess that I cannot forbid a person to marry several wives, for it does not contradict the Scripture. If a man wishes to marry more than one wife he should be asked whether he is satisfied in his conscience that he may do so in accordance with the word of God. In such a case the civil authority has nothing to do in the matter."



I was just going by what I knew off the top of my head I always learn something new in these threads
This still doesn't solve the mystery of why people are so easily offended by something as inconsequential (to them) as two people of the same sex getting married.

Forza Juve


'e voglia 'e mettere rum, chi nasce strunz' nun po' addiventà babbà
#266
I didn't read the op.


I just felt like saying hi
It's over simplified, So what!

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#267
Quote by solo_freak
I was just going by what I knew off the top of my head I always learn something new in these threads
This still doesn't solve the mystery of why people are so easily offended by something as inconsequential (to them) as two people of the same sex getting married.


I agree. It really shouldn't be an issue in countries that are not theocracies based upon an Abrahamic religion. Homophobia starts with a ruling made by Moses in Abrahamic religion and continued as a cultural tradition after that, but secular governments really shouldn't have a say in who people wish to marry, so long as both parties are willing parties.

What is marriage after all? It's simply a contract, a business arrangement. Marriage contracts actualy started off as an agreement between two families who had arranged a marriage between their offspring. In such arrangements, money changed hands in the form of a 'bride price' which was paid by the groom or his family to the parents of a woman upon the marriage of their daughter to the groom. The promises made during a wedding ceremony are made under the understanding that financial restitution will be expected from the other party if any party reneges upon the promises made. Marriage contracts are actualy more about money than love.

A marriage shouldn't be subject to the ruling that it should only be made between a man and a woman any more than any other business arrangement should only be made between a man and a woman.
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Jan 9, 2013,
#268
Idfk It's sad Like who gives a ****. I'll **** you I want to ****, you **** who you want to ****. How is this ever a problem? (other than rape lol. oh shit did i just put an "lol" after "rape"? yup. oh well. i've gone too far t press backspace now)