Poll: refer to thread title
Poll Options
View poll results: refer to thread title
Yes, I would get married.
135 72%
No, I wouldn't bother.
53 28%
Voters: 188.
Page 4 of 4
TooktheAtrain
Banned
Join date: May 2012
184 IQ
#121
Quote by WCPhils
How is he supposed to source that?

That is probably the same definition that many many married people would give you. Just because it's not something written into law doesn't mean it's not true to a lot of people.


Etymology.

Anyway, what people think it is is not equivalent to what it actually is. Many people may marry for reasons of love or commitment, but that doesn't mean ALL marriage is just symbolic of that love/commitment, because that's demonstrably false.

It's obvious to anyone that marriage constitutes a legal contract, and if not that, a social contract.
Dreadnought
Oceanic Mountainman
Join date: Sep 2002
5,226 IQ
#122
Marriage constitutes a lot of things. Quit trying to shove it into a box to fit your views. Same goes to SlackerBabbath.
But we little know until tried how much of the uncontrollable there is in us, urging across glaciers and torrents, and up dangerous heights, let the judgment forbid as it may.
TooktheAtrain
Banned
Join date: May 2012
184 IQ
#123
Quote by Dreadnought
Marriage constitutes a lot of things. Quit trying to shove it into a box to fit your views. Same goes to SlackerBabbath.


That's what I'm arguing for.

I'm not. mind telling me how I am?
Thrashtastic15
socialist cuz bernie xd
Join date: Mar 2009
697 IQ
#124
Quote by Dreadnought
Marriage constitutes a lot of things. Quit trying to shove it into a box to fit your views. Same goes to SlackerBabbath.

You can interpret it in a relevant manner for yourself, people just need to realise that their interpretations relevance ends when they try to extend it beyond their relationship.

a legal contract such as marriage is a commitment you dunderhead.
crazysam23_Atax
Feuergesicht
Join date: Oct 2009
5,710 IQ
#125
Quote by TooktheAtrain
That's what I'm arguing for.

I'm not. mind telling me how I am?

Because you're going, "It fits for this couple" and "Not for that one". You're also bringing up the point that not all marriages are for love (which is an unfortunate truth), despite the fact that most marriages in the Western World are.

Quote by Thrashtastic15
A legal contract such as marriage is a commitment you dunderhead.

Well put.


...

Holy shit, this is odd. I actually agreed with you. It's like...shit, the world might implode now. *waits* Nah, we're good.

Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Jan 17, 2013,
TooktheAtrain
Banned
Join date: May 2012
184 IQ
#126
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Because you're going, "It fits for this couple" and "Not for that one".(1) You're also bringing up the point that not all marriages are for love (which is an unfortunate truth), despite the fact that most marriages in the Western World are.

1. Please could you clarify? I haven't the foggiest what you're talking about here.

As to the rest, I'm not denying that love is the primary motivation for getting married. That is not in dispute. I am not disputing it. I am not saying that it isn't the case. etc etc.

what I AM saying is that although love may be the motivation, that is not what constitutes marriage. What does constitute marriage is a legal contract. Marriage does not have love as a prerequisite, therefore love is not by necessity a part of marriage. Therefore your previous assertion that 'love is marriage maaan.' or something to that effect is false.
Last edited by TooktheAtrain at Jan 17, 2013,
Dreaminmusic
The Juicer
Join date: Apr 2009
216 IQ
#127
Quote by Thrashtastic15
Are you getting married in the past or in areas where marriage still is like that? No? Heh, thought so. That's about as relevant as mentioning that back in medieval times Europeans used to throw their shit out the window into the streets below in a discussion about walking to the store.


Um...you realize not everybody is from exactly where you are from? I personally have 2 friends that are a part of arranged marriages. One of them is from the northern Los Angeles area, and another from San Francisco, so while you may not live in those areas, plenty of people do. Maybe not all marriages are like that and I know personal experience means nothing but I can't be the only individual who observes marriages that fit exactly into the archetypical "medieval" model. My point was not to compare personal friend lists and experience though but rather to show that everybody gets married for different reasons at different times in history, and saying marriage stands for one singular idealistic quality is just as folly as saying Europeans used to throw their shit out the windows into the streets in a discussion about walking to the store [which is a slightly more unified action in its interpretation than marriage].
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Thrashtastic15
socialist cuz bernie xd
Join date: Mar 2009
697 IQ
#128
Quote by Dreaminmusic
Um...you realize not everybody is from exactly where you are from? I personally have 2 friends that are a part of arranged marriages. One of them is from the northern Los Angeles area, and another from San Francisco, so while you may not live in those areas, plenty of people do.

and plenty of people in those areas are not being forced into arranged marriages. my god man get a clue.
Dreaminmusic
The Juicer
Join date: Apr 2009
216 IQ
#129
Quote by Thrashtastic15
and plenty of people in those areas are not being forced into arranged marriages. my god man get a clue.


Once again, the point of mentioning those points was not for statistics but to show its different for everybody. Obviously those are 2 cases of extremes but it seemed easier to do that than list all plausible reasons one can possibly have for being married and all the reasons one could have for being forced to be married. I'm not trying to argue we live in some archaic society where everyone is getting arranged, I'm just stating that a lot of people act like marriage happens for love, or at least mainly for love, and I don't think that's an accurate statement anyone can make across the board. Maybe this is a more common example that could bring up a more statistical representation as a reason people don't get married for love: when a guy accidentally knocks a girl up. To reaffirm, my point is that marriage is not inherently based upon any romanticized ideal and in my opinion it should not be thought or treated as such. Not a necessarily good or bad thing, just how I view it.
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Last edited by Dreaminmusic at Jan 17, 2013,
Thrashtastic15
socialist cuz bernie xd
Join date: Mar 2009
697 IQ
#130
Wow look at that you've restated in a very bad way the point I made a page ago congratulations. The vast majority of people marry for love and our society interprets marriage mostly in that sense regardless.
Dreaminmusic
The Juicer
Join date: Apr 2009
216 IQ
#131
That's why I was confused I thought we were simply supporting part of the same point on that page. I guess the disconnect comes from the fact I just don't think a majority of people marry for love and that's how it is interpreted. I would say that could be accurate among older generations, but among younger peoples it is more of a contractual obligation. Especially how the media spins divorces and relationship scandals. I guess it could have to do with our background though, every woman in my extended family has been divorced at least once and my aunts are the age where they're just trying to settle down with a wealthy older man. Combine that with going to a University where I have friends that are girls that regularly talk about how they just wanna date a senior with a good job lined up and get married and friends that are guys that only would get married if the girl pushed for it because they have no inclination and you could see why I'd have trouble viewing it in a more unified sense of "mostly."
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crazysam23_Atax
Feuergesicht
Join date: Oct 2009
5,710 IQ
#132
^
Just because your family's history with marriage isn't so good, that doesn't mean people don't marry for love. The majority of people today do marry for love. Don't let your family background jade your viewpoint on marriage or marrying for love.
Rust_in_Peace34
Pancakes are my business
Join date: Dec 2005
76 IQ
#133
People stay together 'cause they love each other. People get married cause it's a cultural norm and provides 'legal benefits.'

The truth is your commitment to your partner doesn't need to be announced and given a title. It's your and your partner's personal business. It just seems a lot of the time getting married means waving a huge banner to your friends and family that says "LOOK HOW HAPPY WE ARE, YOU SEE?" It isn't necessary.

That said, I most likely will be getting married since my family will give me no peace if I don't.
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fail
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Join date: Jan 2008
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#134
Actually, I might avoid marriage simply cause I hate the words "husband" and "wife".
Quote by Ian_the_fox
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Dreadnought
Oceanic Mountainman
Join date: Sep 2002
5,226 IQ
#135
Quote by fail
Actually, I might avoid marriage simply cause I hate the words "husband" and "wife".


You're lame as hell
But we little know until tried how much of the uncontrollable there is in us, urging across glaciers and torrents, and up dangerous heights, let the judgment forbid as it may.
fail
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Join date: Jan 2008
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#136
Quote by Dreadnought
You're lame as hell


They tend to devolve into "hubby" or "wifey". That is lame as hell.
Quote by Ian_the_fox
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GodofCheesecake
Master of the Machines
Join date: Apr 2006
1,404 IQ
#137
Having read through the whole thread, all the pro-marriage posts are having about the same effect on me as the idea of Christmas spirit. "You should have it, just because it's nice and that's how everyone was brought up." Once again, I'm not attacking marriage, as some people seem to think is the case if one simply asks why it's necessary. I see now that I probably should have added a third poll option along the lines of "I would get married if my partner wanted to in order to make them happy, but am otherwise indifferent."
My band, Escher
My progressive rock project, Mosaic

Quote by Lappo
clearly, the goal is to convert every thread into a discussion about BTBAM

BTBAM IS ALWAYS RELEVANT
Thrashtastic15
socialist cuz bernie xd
Join date: Mar 2009
697 IQ
#138
Nobody has said you should have anything. You should either go back to reddit or pick up a bit more reading comprehension.
Moonlit101
Moonlit101
Join date: Feb 2008
13 IQ
#139
I'd still get married just because that shows that the person wants to be with me until either of us die, which seems to be rare now a days
eGraham
Rattle That Lock
Join date: Oct 2008
1,539 IQ
#140
I honestly didn't expect such a divide to come from this thread lol.

But I guess that just proves that marriage is important to some people.
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The Madcap
Classical Guitarist
Join date: May 2007
9,780 IQ
#141
Quote by GodofCheesecake
Having read through the whole thread, all the pro-marriage posts are having about the same effect on me as the idea of Christmas spirit. "You should have it, just because it's nice and that's how everyone was brought up." Once again, I'm not attacking marriage, as some people seem to think is the case if one simply asks why it's necessary. I see now that I probably should have added a third poll option along the lines of "I would get married if my partner wanted to in order to make them happy, but am otherwise indifferent."
I think you're labeling the pro-marriagers as a bit too aggressive. I can't speak for everyone, but I don't think everyone should want to get married, nor do I think it's necessary. To me, that side was the defensive side against the idea that marriage is inane and silly.

Basically it's just that whole "different strokes for different folks" idea.
GodofCheesecake
Master of the Machines
Join date: Apr 2006
1,404 IQ
#142
Quote by Thrashtastic15
Nobody has said you should have anything. You should either go back to reddit or pick up a bit more reading comprehension.

That's weird because I don't go on Reddit at all.
Quote by The Madcap
I think you're labeling the pro-marriagers as a bit too aggressive.

Not really in general, just one or two of them. I didn't really expect to be made to feel like an asshole for not seeing the point of marriage, but I guess that ties in with the Christmas analogy. I made the thread because I was genuinely curious, not because I wanted to tout my new-age, superintellectual viewpoints or whatever it is people are suspicious I'm doing.
My band, Escher
My progressive rock project, Mosaic

Quote by Lappo
clearly, the goal is to convert every thread into a discussion about BTBAM

BTBAM IS ALWAYS RELEVANT
SlackerBabbath
Est. 1966.
Join date: Apr 2007
264 IQ
#143
Quote by bradulator
Quote by WCPhils

lol, who thinks about it this way?

I would guarantee that every person that I've seen get married would have gotten married even if there was no legal benefits.
Forreal. I think Slacker is being overly cynical and wrong in his assessment of why people get married today.

I know why people get married today, they get married for all sorts of different reasons, some people get married for security or because of the legal and financial benefits that marriage brings, some are arranged marriages, but most people today apparently get married because they love each other and wish to be together for the rest of their lives. The point I'm making is that a 'legal marriage contract' is completely unecessary to those couples who 'genuinely' love each other and just want to be together for the rest of their lives, the only people that a legal contract is necessary to is those that are unsure about the love they have for each other and a have certain level of distrust for each other, who, in my opinion, shouldn't really be comitting to each other in the first place.
Quote by Thrashtastic15
I don't think it would at all. The whole point of the legal contract involved is that it adds another dimension of significant commitment towards your significant other and your relationship. It doesn't have to be interpreted in such a toxic and, to be quite frank, unhealthy manner. The language itself is neutral towards the sentiments both of us are deriving from it. The difference is that you are trying to assert that yours is inherent to the institution when that's just ridiculous. You're fine to hold such opinions, more power to you. But know where the limit of their worth is.

Historicaly, marriage started out as a business contract between two families in which their offspring were used as assets that were given a financial value in an 'arranged' marriage. It was nothing to do with love, marriage back then was more to do with business and family honour. That is what a marriage contract is, it's just some archaic leftover from a time when marriage was just a business agreement made between the heads of two households in which their offspring were bought and sold like property and used for producing more offspring who could legaly keep the family name and business going.

I have no problem with wedding ceremonies and people publicly committing to each other and considering themselves as 'man and wife' from then on, but I find the legaly binding contract itself to be distasteful in something that today is supposed to be all about the love that two people feel for each other.
If two people genuinely love each other, a legaly binding contract shouldn't be needed, if they don't genuinely love each other, then what's the point in them getting married in the first place?

I also find it distasteful that any legal or financial benefits to being contractualy 'married' should exist. Why should the signing of a marriage contract mean that you pay less taxes anyway? To me, that's just discrimination towards un(legaly)married couples, especialy those that have started families, who's relationship should be taken just as seriously as a legaly married couple.

Marriage should be about people feeling an obligation to one another out of love, it should be about people who want to feel obligated to one another, not about a 'legal' contract that forces people to have an obligation towards one another. All that does is influence people who really don't love each other any more into staying together, getting on each others nerves, possibly even cheating on each other, rather than risking the legal fallout from splitting up and getting on with the rest of their lives.

It's a pretty ridiculous situation when you think about it..
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Jan 18, 2013,
SlackerBabbath
Est. 1966.
Join date: Apr 2007
264 IQ
#145
Quote by Random3
I wasn't aware that getting married had any legal benefits.
In America, there are approximately 1,400 state and federal rights, privileges, benefits, responsibilities and protections that have been associated with marriage.
These include:
Status as next-of-kin for hospital visits and medical decisions where one partner is too ill to be competent.
Joint insurance policies for home, auto and health.
Dissolution and divorce protections such as community property and child support.
Immigration and residency for partners from other countries.
Inheritance automatically in the absence of a will.
Joint leases with automatic renewal rights in the event one partner dies or leaves the house or apartment.
Inheritance of jointly-owned real and personal property through the right of survivorship (which avoids the time and expense and taxes in probate).
Benefits such as annuities, pension plans, Social Security, and Medicare.
Spousal exemptions to property tax increases upon the death of one partner who is a co-owner of the home.
Veterans' discounts on medical care, education, and home loans; joint filing of tax returns.
Joint filing of customs claims when traveling.
Wrongful death benefits for a surviving partner and children.
Bereavement or sick leave to care for a partner or child.
Decision-making power with respect to whether a deceased partner will be cremated or not and where to bury him or her.
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Jan 19, 2013,
BlueAltitudes
The Virtuoso's Brother.
Join date: May 2008
491 IQ
#147
I would definitely be more inclined to marry that's for sure. One of the big reasons I despise marriage is for the legalities of it.
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willT08
Banned
Join date: Jul 2009
2,923 IQ
#150
Quote by Tsar66
i can't get married anyway, & never want to, even with the legal benefits

...what the hell are you talking about? Why can't you? I'm guessing you're gay or something. But didn't Scotland just legalize gay marriage?
Tsar66
untitled
Join date: May 2010
92 IQ
#151
Quote by willT08
...what the hell are you talking about? Why can't you? I'm guessing you're gay or something. But didn't Scotland just legalize gay marriage?

yeah i'm gay. & not yet, but they're meant to do it soon or something
ThrashUnleashed
stealing human bones
Join date: Apr 2011
443 IQ
#152
Yeah I definitely would.
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milfhunter
Join date: Nov 2008
466 IQ
#154
when a girl is of the same social class, the so called benefits are very small. it would only matter if you mary a celebrity that makes alot of money.

reminds me of the song golddigger by kanye west, "she takes my money...."
JokerGrin
Banned
Join date: Dec 2012
10 IQ
#155
If the reason for marriage is something other than love, it shouldn't go ahead.
eGraham
Rattle That Lock
Join date: Oct 2008
1,539 IQ
#156
Quote by SlackerBabbath
I know why people get married today, they get married for all sorts of different reasons, some people get married for security or because of the legal and financial benefits that marriage brings, some are arranged marriages, but most people today apparently get married because they love each other and wish to be together for the rest of their lives. The point I'm making is that a 'legal marriage contract' is completely unecessary to those couples who 'genuinely' love each other and just want to be together for the rest of their lives, the only people that a legal contract is necessary to is those that are unsure about the love they have for each other and a have certain level of distrust for each other, who, in my opinion, shouldn't really be comitting to each other in the first place.

Yes, especially the bolded part.
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whywefight
~I'm not fuckin around~
Join date: Dec 2010
1,725 IQ
#157
Just because the legality isn't necessary for two people to be together doesn't mean that I still wouldn't want it.
crazysam23_Atax
Feuergesicht
Join date: Oct 2009
5,710 IQ
#158
Quote by SlackerBabbath
I know why people get married today, they get married for all sorts of different reasons, some people get married for security or because of the legal and financial benefits that marriage brings, some are arranged marriages, but most people today apparently get married because they love each other and wish to be together for the rest of their lives. The point I'm making is that a 'legal marriage contract' is completely unnecessary to those couples who 'genuinely' love each other and just want to be together for the rest of their lives, the only people that a legal contract is necessary to is those that are unsure about the love they have for each other and a have certain level of distrust for each other, who, in my opinion, shouldn't really be committing to each other in the first place.

This bolded part is true, but there's still no reason why having a ceremony & such isn't a wonderful thing for many couples. Do they need it? No. But it's a nice thing, for them, to publicly declare their love and commitment and share that day with friends and family.

Honestly, I've never heard a couple (that wedded for genuine love, or even for other reasons) say that the best part of their wedding was "signing the marriage license" (or whatever legal documents they have in other countries). Nonetheless, the law requires that, so couples do that.
JustRooster
Internet Bully
Join date: Jan 2005
7,165 IQ
#159
I probably won't get married, even with the legal benefits.

Quote by EyeNon15
Thats too bad, I was under the impression I was arguing something profound

SlackerBabbath
Est. 1966.
Join date: Apr 2007
264 IQ
#160
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
This bolded part is true, but there's still no reason why having a ceremony & such isn't a wonderful thing for many couples.

I completely agree, as I said earlier, I have no problem with wedding ceremonies and people publicly committing to each other and considering themselves as 'man and wife' from then on, but I find the legaly binding contract itself to be distasteful in something that is supposed to be all about the love that two people feel for each other.
If two people genuinely love each other, a legaly binding contract shouldn't be needed, if they don't genuinely love each other, then what's the point in them getting married in the first place?
Quote by crazysam23_Atax

Nonetheless, the law requires that, so couples do that.

But why does the law require that? Why does the law consider that married couples, people who have signed a legaly binding marriage contract, should get advantages over non-married couples? What makes a contract between people who, it would seem, don't entirely trust each other more important to the government than the love shared by two people who don't feel the need to get 'legally' married