Why is sexism and racism okay to joke about, but mental disabilities are not?

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koalabacon
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#81
Quote by element4433
Since when is everybody cool with racist and sexist jokes?


Since Family Guy became one of the most popular and well received shows on television.
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adamgur96
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#82
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They can all be funny


Pretty much this.
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StewieSwan
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#83
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No, because we are not pack animals now. Specialisation is what allows for an advanced society.



Specialization is also still a new concept in homo history. And anyway, so what? There's still the possibility of a 'holdover' trait, like wisdom teeth or shroom dicks.
666atheist666
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#84
Third page, so this threads probably long been de-railed and about something else entirely, but I'm gonna answer the title question.


Sexism and racism are okay to joke about because they are issues in which all of society had made decisions to treat these people this way, which is totally wrong. When sexist or racist jokes are told, it's not because the one telling the joke supports these issues, but that they're given comedic value because of how asinine and utterly stupid a practice these things were, and they were common principles. The funniest jokes are about the issues that people build walls up against. Sexism and racism are massively stupid things to practice.

Mental retardation isn't controlled by society, and it's the result of something horrible gone wrong in the child, the mother who beared the child, or both. It's not their fault they're born that way, and you shouldn't treat them as a sexist would a woman, or as a racist would a black man, that's completely wrong.

My two cents.
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TooktheAtrain
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#85
Quote by StewieSwan
Specialization is also still a new concept in homo history. And anyway, so what? There's still the possibility of a 'holdover' trait, like wisdom teeth or shroom dicks.


So you're saying it's an outdated tendency that we acquired evolutionarily?

What I found offensive about that comment is the implication that bullying the mentally ill is in the interests of society in modern society. If he meant it's something we acquired and have no use for now, I'd agree. If he meant it's something he thinks is good for society now, I'd vehemently disagree.
StewieSwan
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#86
Quote by TooktheAtrain
So you're saying it's an outdated tendency that we acquired evolutionarily?



I'm saying it's a possibility that we can't just discard because the thought makes us uncomfortable. That's all.
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TooktheAtrain
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#87
Quote by StewieSwan
I'm saying it's a possibility that we can't just discard because the thought makes us uncomfortable. That's all.


Yeah, I'd agree with that view. There is a form of misguided social darwinism advocated by those who want to justify their bullying though.
koalabacon
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#88
Quote by JayT44
Third page, so this threads probably long been de-railed and about something else entirely, but I'm gonna answer the title question.


Sexism and racism are okay to joke about because they are issues in which all of society had made decisions to treat these people this way, which is totally wrong. When sexist or racist jokes are told, it's not because the one telling the joke supports these issues, but that they're given comedic value because of how asinine and utterly stupid a practice these things were, and they were common principles. The funniest jokes are about the issues that people build walls up against. Sexism and racism are massively stupid things to practice.

Mental retardation isn't controlled by society, and it's the result of something horrible gone wrong in the child, the mother who beared the child, or both. It's not their fault they're born that way, and you shouldn't treat them as a sexist would a woman, or as a racist would a black man, that's completely wrong.

My two cents.


I work for a social justice hall at my college. I'm going to share this idea.

I've always had this problem - I enjoy crude humor but I know too many people who believe because I enjoy it, therefore I must be racist/sexist/etc.

thanks for sharing!
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StewieSwan
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#89
Quote by TooktheAtrain
Yeah, I'd agree with that view. There is a form of misguided social darwinism advocated by those who want to justify their bullying though.



Definitely.


I don't think that's what the poster was trying to suggest, though.
666atheist666
TooktheAtrain
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#90
Tempoe, sorry if I got you wrong, I'm a bit touchy about this subject.

Cheers stewie for being patient and reasonable
JayT44
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#91
Quote by koalabacon
I work for a social justice hall at my college. I'm going to share this idea.

I've always had this problem - I enjoy crude humor but I know too many people who believe because I enjoy it, therefore I must be racist/sexist/etc.

thanks for sharing!

daytripper75

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JohnnyGenzale
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#92
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best first reply in quite a while, gj tom.
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20Tigers
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#93
Didn't read all five pages.

Inclusion is important.

Humour that involves race, gender, or disability is okay if it is done in the right way. I can't quite put into words but I'll try and no doubt it will come across all wrong...

If you can intelligently highlight differences between certain people in a way that treats them like equals then it can be okay. What you can't do is put them down and laugh about it. You also have to have a certain element of fairness in that you are just as willing to absolutely humiliate yourself.

People will always be offended by these kinds of jokes but if you tweet about a disabled guy there is a difference between making a joke and treating him like a joke. If you don't understand the difference you shouldn't be doing either.

As an example South Park use all sorts of things to make humour. They have Token Black, they also have Jimmy and Timmy. But if you watch the programme although it finds ways to use the unique attributes of each kid to elicit humur, the underlying message if you watch the programme is that these are just kids like all the other kids. The rest of the South Park kids never treat them as outcasts but as valued individuals just as they treat every other kid.

As a parent of a highly dependant child with special needs I see the difference between this kind of thing and when some teenager pulls spastic faces when he sees my daughter. Hopefully he sees the difference too after I leave him with two black eyes.

It's like when you rip on your friends. You should be able to rip on anyone but ONLY if you see them as your equal and as being a unique person worthy of your respect and time. This requires intelligence and understanding and it will come through in the kind of humour you use.

Chances are you were just being a disrespectful douchebag in your tweet.
Si
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#94
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#95
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#96
^This thread is for the discussion of specific kinds of humour. It is not an excuse to spread bad racial jokes, or any other kind of bad taste jokes about minorities.
Si
jrcsgtpeppers
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#97
Your question is wrong. Your question is the answer itself. You obviously don't think its right to talk about racism and sexism but you are knowingly bringing up a different idea all together, mental illness, and asking why its not okay to make fun of the mentally ill? You're a troll breh.

To continue my comment mentally ill people aren't something you want to be, where as race and sex are things that anyone can equally be. Normal things. It's normal to be black but it isnt normal to have downs syndrome. Your question is so obvious why bother making this thread? You're that bored? Maybe that's cuz you aren't interesting and think about facebook all day.
Skynyrd890
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#98
Quote by 20Tigers
Didn't read all five pages.

Inclusion is important.

Humour that involves race, gender, or disability is okay if it is done in the right way. I can't quite put into words but I'll try and no doubt it will come across all wrong...

If you can intelligently highlight differences between certain people in a way that treats them like equals then it can be okay. What you can't do is put them down and laugh about it. You also have to have a certain element of fairness in that you are just as willing to absolutely humiliate yourself.

People will always be offended by these kinds of jokes but if you tweet about a disabled guy there is a difference between making a joke and treating him like a joke. If you don't understand the difference you shouldn't be doing either.

As an example South Park use all sorts of things to make humour. They have Token Black, they also have Jimmy and Timmy. But if you watch the programme although it finds ways to use the unique attributes of each kid to elicit humur, the underlying message if you watch the programme is that these are just kids like all the other kids. The rest of the South Park kids never treat them as outcasts but as valued individuals just as they treat every other kid.

As a parent of a highly dependant child with special needs I see the difference between this kind of thing and when some teenager pulls spastic faces when he sees my daughter. Hopefully he sees the difference too after I leave him with two black eyes.

It's like when you rip on your friends. You should be able to rip on anyone but ONLY if you see them as your equal and as being a unique person worthy of your respect and time. This requires intelligence and understanding and it will come through in the kind of humour you use.

Chances are you were just being a disrespectful douchebag in your tweet.


I do agree.
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#99
Quote by 20Tigers
Humour that involves race, gender, or disability is okay if it is done in the right way. I can't quite put into words but I'll try and no doubt it will come across all wrong...

People will always be offended by these kinds of jokes but if you tweet about a disabled guy there is a difference between making a joke and treating him like a joke. If you don't understand the difference you shouldn't be doing either.


This is probably the best way to look at it.
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macashmack
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#100
I think it comes down to the idea that people think they have a right not to be offended.
treborillusion
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#101
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ali.guitarkid7
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#102
It is perfectly okay to take something that is bad and joke about it. It's okay to make jokes about racism, sexism and mental disabilities. In fact, I would say that I prefer people to make those jokes, because taking something bad, pointing at it and showing everyone the funny side is incredibly fulfilling and it is a state we should strive for. I don't want humor to be inoffensive, I want it to be honest, and if those topics are things you are familiar/deal with and want to joke about, all the more power to you. However, there is a clear distinction between someone who doesn't understand why prejudice is bad, and is making jokes about them, and someone who does understand and makes jokes about them - the latter is actually funny, the former are just embarrassing themselves.

I know, I totally think I'm edgy for liking "offensive jokes", I can't wait to see everyone reply with "hurr so brave durr".
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TooktheAtrain
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#103
To reflect on ali's statement, I find this is true for me also, but the real humour is in satirising racist or sexist thought, rather than racism or sexism being funny in themselves.

Obviously, some rather small minded people understand racial humour on only the simplest levels and take the satire at face value- all the better, more to laugh at.
JohnnyGenzale
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#104
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
It is perfectly okay to take something that is bad and joke about it. It's okay to make jokes about racism, sexism and mental disabilities. In fact, I would say that I prefer people to make those jokes, because taking something bad, pointing at it and showing everyone the funny side is incredibly fulfilling and it is a state we should strive for. I don't want humor to be inoffensive, I want it to be honest, and if those topics are things you are familiar/deal with and want to joke about, all the more power to you. However, there is a clear distinction between someone who doesn't understand why prejudice is bad, and is making jokes about them, and someone who does understand and makes jokes about them - the latter is actually funny, the former are just embarrassing themselves.

I know, I totally think I'm edgy for liking "offensive jokes", I can't wait to see everyone reply with "hurr so brave durr".


that's the best humour though. or well, some of the best.

but it takes about five seconds to see the differenceb between someone joking around and being a bit sincere about it.

I think it's a lot more dangerous to avoid joking about certain subjects. Then you're really creating taboo subjects and stuff you can't even mention without people jumping your throat. I think it's actually helpful to joke about even the most bizarre or grimmiest stuff to somehow deal with it. As long as it's done in good taste of course.
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Last edited by JohnnyGenzale at Jan 25, 2013,
stratman_13
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#105
**** it.

.

I don't see a difference in mocking any of the "taboo" subjects. I think people getting offended by them just adds to the humor value.

People need to stop taking themselves and their lives so seriously.
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treborillusion
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#106
Humour's relative, I mean, in Germany, they have none.


I kid, I kid, they have one.

Also, immigrtion forms, they have no sense of humour.

'Purpose of visit:?
To blow up the White House.'

Will probably not go down well when you go through immigration.
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#107
Quote by treborillusion
Humour's relative, I mean, in Germany, they have none.


I kid, I kid, they have one.

Also, immigrtion forms, they have no sense of humour.

'Purpose of visit:?
To blow up the White House.'

Will probably not go down well when you go through immigration.


Humour has a place, legal documents aren't it.
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ali.guitarkid7
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#108
Quote by TooktheAtrain
To reflect on ali's statement, I find this is true for me also, but the real humour is in satirising racist or sexist thought, rather than racism or sexism being funny in themselves.

Obviously, some rather small minded people understand racial humour on only the simplest levels and take the satire at face value- all the better, more to laugh at.

Oh, absolutely. I hope my post didn't imply that I think slavery or forced marriages are inherently funny, even if the joke revolves around those it's usually the tyrants that are the butt of the joke.

Quote by JohnnyGenzale
that's the best humour though. or well, some of the best.

but it takes about five seconds to see the differenceb between someone joking around and being a bit sincere about it.

I think it's a lot more dangerous to avoid joking about certain subjects. Then you're really creating taboo subjects and stuff you can't even mention without people jumping your throat. I think it's actually helpful to joke about even the most bizarre or grimmiest stuff to somehow deal with it. As long as it's done in good taste of course.

Well, I think we're using the word 'sincere' in a different context.

When I say that a racist joke has to be 'honest', I mean it should be something you've actually experienced, thought about, were angered by or anything in that manner. Always have a reason for doing it, if that makes sense.

To give an example, if you've ever heard Louis CK's 'Chewed Up' album, the first track ("Offensive Words") is brilliant. It's not even the usual satire or parody of a racist/homophobic POV, but he's actually talking about when it's okay to say 'nig-ger' or 'fag-got'. It's not shock humor, he's taking two taboo words and using them to make us laugh, and it's something he truly believes.

There really should be no 'line in the sand' in any art-form, especially not one that we use every single day.
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theogonia777
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#109
This is only somewhat relevant, but a few thoughts:

Being queer kind of sucks because you can't make queer jokes publicly unless you are clearly queer and you can only make them privately around people that you're out to. Otherwise people think you're homo/trans/biphobic.

But when you're a racial minority or a (cis)woman you are clearly a racial minority or (cis)woman, so you can make jokes about it and it's not as unacceptable. Some people still get mad anyway. I guess the same could be said about people of racial or religious minorities using terms that are derogatory towards their own race/faith, like when some black people use the N word. It's not fully acceptable, but it is somewhat more acceptable than if a white person said it obviously.

I guess the same could be said about words like "faggot" and "dyke" and the like, but again, this only really works if you are obviously queer, like flaming gay or super butch.

When you're mentally disabled though, you might not even have the capacity to make jokes about it, so you can't enjoy somewhat of a freedom for self depreciating humor.

Though self depreciating humor really is kind of lame and should be avoided unless it's just ridiculously hilarious. But when you see a comedian that is a sexual or racial minority and all of that material is about that, it gets really old really quickly.
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TooktheAtrain
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#110
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Oh, absolutely. I hope my post didn't imply that I think slavery or forced marriages are inherently funny, even if the joke revolves around those it's usually the tyrants that are the butt of the joke.


Oh no not at all, I was just adding my perspective.
Skynyrd890
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#111
One thing I thought about is that disabilities are widely regarded as the worst thing in the world to happen to you, or your loved ones. Be it mental or physical. Being black, a woman, gay... you're a minority, but people don't necessarily think it's a negative thing. Historically, they have, but not today. Also, there are much greater numbers of say gay people than people with one particular disability. Socially, disability is still a stigma, unlike being a racial minority or being a woman, and to a lesser extent, being gay.

I'm not sure I'm making much sense... I'm having a hard time articulating this.

Best example I can think of is I know a girl who was paralyzed a few years ago, so she's in a wheelchair. If she makes a joke about it, the people who know her best, and know that she's ok with herself, all laugh. The people who don't know her well, and think "poor you", they all gasp.
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crazysam23_Atax
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#112
Quote by treborillusion
Humour's relative, I mean, in Germany, they have none.


I kid, I kid, they have one.

Also, immigrtion forms, they have no sense of humour.

'Purpose of visit:?
To blow up the White House.'

Will probably not go down well when you go through immigration.

Reminds me of this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEQOvyGbBtY
WildthingJR
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#113
Quote by Skynyrd890
Best example I can think of is I know a girl who was paralyzed a few years ago, so she's in a wheelchair. If she makes a joke about it, the people who know her best, and know that she's ok with herself, all laugh. The people who don't know her well, and think "poor you", they all gasp.


Yeah I experience this a lot. Disabled people making fun of themselves, and leaving most others in the vicinity feeling very awkward. Now that's actually funny in my opinion.
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Skynyrd890
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#114
Quote by WildthingJR
Yeah I experience this a lot. Disabled people making fun of themselves, and leaving most others in the vicinity feeling very awkward. Now that's actually funny in my opinion.

It is kinda funny that a small joke incites such confusion in others.
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fail
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#115
It's easier for a black person or a woman to defend themselves from racist/sexist jokes. Not so much for the disabled. At least, I think most people feel that way on some level.
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#116
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#117
So...does everyone here only know racist jokes about black people?

like, what the hell guys. there are other races that get jokes made about them...
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#118
Quote by Mack56
So...does everyone here only know racist jokes about black people?

like, what the hell guys. there are other races that get jokes made about them...


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#119
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