Offworld92
One among the fence.
Join date: Nov 2009
520 IQ
#1
Noise is an issue for a lot of people - it seems like all day, every day, we get posts generally related to the questions of "what can I do to make less noise".

One subject that is next to never brought up is speaker sensitivity. And that info can be hard to find, if it's even thought of to look.

I would love a sticky with some of the most common speakers and their sensitivity ratings and wattage capacity, as well as outliers - speakers that aren't common, that have very low and very high sensitivities. I would be nice to have alternate suggestions than trading your Dual Rectifier for an HT5 (which doesn't solve the problem) or use an attenuator (which won't work).
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Offworld92
One among the fence.
Join date: Nov 2009
520 IQ
#3
I know the info can be found, but I thought it'd be nice to have a list of various brands all compiled here for quick reference.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
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gumbilicious
beginner
Join date: Oct 2007
250 IQ
#4
Quote by Offworld92
I would love a sticky with some of the most common speakers and their sensitivity ratings and wattage capacity, as well as outliers - speakers that aren't common,


i think there is an old speaker thread somewhere. i don't think anyone ever made a list, it'd be more useful in a format you could sort and filter (like a spread sheet).

Quote by Offworld92
...that have very low and very high sensitivities.


i used to give advice all the time back in the day: "if the amp is too loud then the most efficient way to make the quieter is to get less sensitive speakers".

it was great advice, except it wasn't really pertinent. every guitar speaker i have seen has been between 96 dB sensitivity and 103 dB. a range of 8 dB's is not bad, but they are all going to be rated around the mid/upper 90's and the early 100's. so there is no effective way of making the amp quieter using conventional guitar speakers.

i found the lowest rated speaker from celestion (greenback @ 96 dB) and compared it to the most powerful speaker i found at eminence (Wizard @ 103.5). the difference of 7.5 dB means the 103.5 dB speaker only sounds 1.7 times as loud as the 96 dB rated speaker.

using a more extreme option, like a car speaker (rated around 90 to 93 dB), would allow you to cut your volume by over 2.5 times but that can still be quite loud (it might not be able to keep up with drums but it could piss off neighbors).

bottomline is that if there were guitar speakers that were available at 75 dB or 80 dB sensitivity instead of the 96 to 103 sensitivity we actually have to choose from, then 'inefficient speakers' would be an awesome way get guitar tone at low volume.

there are a couple reasons why they don't make guitar speakers like this:

1) the idea of an amp is to sound loud... like loud enough to keep up with a drummer for example. this need for guitar speakers to be loud requires them to use speakers with higher sensitivity (and resulting lower fidelity)

2) low fidelity - guitar speakers are supposed to be colorful and responsive. paper cones, weak surround and spider, light materials. all these materials that help make the speaker loud also make it colorful and responsive.

basically they can't change the guitar speaker without messing with the whole form/function/tone interaction.

Quote by Offworld92
I would be nice to have alternate suggestions than trading your Dual Rectifier for an HT5 (which doesn't solve the problem) or use an attenuator (which won't work).


there are plenty of options. most people don't like them though

-master volume
-headsets
-direct line in recording (interface recording)
-amp/cab/mic emulation
-isolation cabs
-multi effects
-computer speakers (with multi effects or emulation)

the idea of wanting to push a 15 watt tube amp with a speaker rated around 99 dB and wanting to find some way keep it quiet is redic. either you have to turn the amp down or try another solution.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
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Dave_Mc
Chirp and Swirl
Join date: Mar 2005
440 IQ
#5
what gumbi said. less efficient speakers can help alongside other volume reduction techniques... but on their own, not really. they'll help a little bit, but not a whole heap. my little 5 watt fame tube 5 has about the lowest sensitivity guitar speaker i've seen (by some margin), a little 6" jensen mod series speaker, which is specced as being 90.9dB. And even that makes a 5 watter *just about* quiet enough to not be painful for small-enclosed-space-home-use.

that's before you even consider that different speakers sound different. if you want something that sounds like a vintage 30 you more or less have to buy either a vintage 30, or else someone else's take on a vintage 30, and by and large those speakers are loud. the specs make them sound the way they do. I doubt, if someone made a 90dB v30, it'd sound anything like a proper v30 (but i could be wrong).

if you want to do the thread, though, go for it. Most of the speaker companies put the info on their websites, it should just be a cut and paste job. Though you'd need to put the "different companies rate their speakers differently" disclaimer.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

Offworld92
One among the fence.
Join date: Nov 2009
520 IQ
#6
I guess I was making the assumption that maybe there was some relatively unknown company out there that made something in the 80s or something.

And also, it should still be noted that a bit less sensitivity x4 in a half stack can make an overall larger difference (right?).

But yeah, if there's no real outliers, then it would be kind of pointless.

Thanks for all the info.
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mmolteratx
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380 IQ
#7
Eminence has the FDM series, which are adjustable from ~91 to 100 dB at one Watt.
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Blktiger0
The Name's Devon! ;)
Join date: Sep 2007
360 IQ
#8
^^I actually came in here to mention the Maverick, since it gets down to 91. The Reignmaker for some reason is listed as 100db at full power AND max attenuation on their site now, but I know it used to say something along the lines of 93db for it's max attenuation.

I just think people need to realize that you don't buy a tube amp for bedroom tone

Just like Gumbi said, the point of an amp is to make your playing loud, namely, louder than an acoustic drum set. It's like buying lights that are meant to light up a football staduim and saying "now, what can I do to make these managable in my bedroom?"

Now, obviously there are companies that are addressing this issue for people. A lot of amps are coming shipping with headphone jacks, which is the best solution, in my opinion. I think every amp should ship with a headphone out that disconnects the speaker (or speaker cab) safely. The only other option is to eliminate as many variables between your low and high volume playing, using things like power scaling combined with low sensitivity speakers and a master volume, or even something like the new Egnaters have, if it ends up working as intended.

Personally, I don't even use my live rig at home in my current living situation. I use pedals into a Solid State PA head with no speakers attached, my laptop running into it, and using the "record out" as a headphone out. It serves its purpose, considering it was gear I already had, although for other people, a POD or something similar would be easier.
Dave_Mc
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Join date: Mar 2005
440 IQ
#9
^ i think it depends on (a) what bedroom volume actually means to the individual and (b) on how much compromise someone is willing to put up with.

For me personally i can get the things loud enough at home that tube still sounds and feels pretty darn good. Not as good as cranked but better (IMO) than a solid state or cheap modeller.

granted, if bedroom volume means "whisper", then tube might not be the way to go.

But likewise, it doesn't make much sense to me when people say, "you can't use that amp to its full potential!" when even using it to the potential which your situation allows may well sound better than using something else which is crap to its full potential. Nomatter what you do at bedroom volume will involve some compromise, so it's a matter of finding what sounds best for you at a price you're willing to pay.

Quote by Offworld92
I guess I was making the assumption that maybe there was some relatively unknown company out there that made something in the 80s or something.

And also, it should still be noted that a bit less sensitivity x4 in a half stack can make an overall larger difference (right?).

But yeah, if there's no real outliers, then it would be kind of pointless.

Thanks for all the info.


yeah there's nothing much below 95dB really. very few, anyway. plus as i said, if you want a specific tone it's probably not worth getting a completely unsuitable speaker just because it's slightly quieter.

not sure about the 4x12. though would that increase the quietness or increase the volume? i mean four 100dB speakers are slightly louder than one, and the same is (presumably) true for four 90dB speakers...

Quote by mmolteratx
Eminence has the FDM series, which are adjustable from ~91 to 100 dB at one Watt.


yeah i thought of that one but (a) it's really dear and (b) 91dB is still pretty loud with a high wattage amp.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

Last edited by Dave_Mc at Jan 31, 2013,
tubetime86
I don't even play guitar.
Join date: Jul 2008
170 IQ
#10
Maybe we need a sticky on neighbor sensitivities so people know not to move into these houses?
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
Dave_Mc
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Join date: Mar 2005
440 IQ
#11
^ yeah cathbard can author it, the "what you really need is a new house" thread
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

tubetime86
I don't even play guitar.
Join date: Jul 2008
170 IQ
#12
I just don't feel any sympathy, honestly. I live in a townhouse with a family on both sides of me and play a drum kit fairly regularly and a 15 watt tube amp literally whenever I want. Sure if I play at 3 am I don't crank it, but I never have it below 3 on the master either.

I refuse to believe that a situation exists where you really just can't play at a reasonable volume. If your housing situation is really that bad then surely it affects other aspects of life too? Noise ordinances don't say 'your neighbor can never hear a peep out of you...' I just don't get it.
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
Dave_Mc
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Join date: Mar 2005
440 IQ
#13
i dunno. i don't share any walls with neighbours (cheapo NI house prices ftw ) , but i do live in a development i.e. my neighbours' houses are maybe 10 yards away from mine, if even. When i used to crank my engl to 10 the cops were never called That being said, different areas have different codes (not to mention different people), so it's hard to generalise. I work on the basis that i'd rather warn people about noise and have them be pleasantly surprised than the alternative, which is having the cops turn up
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

Last edited by Dave_Mc at Jan 31, 2013,
Blktiger0
The Name's Devon! ;)
Join date: Sep 2007
360 IQ
#14
I actually live out in the country, so it's not the people that live NEXT to me that's the issue, it's the ones living WITH me

One of them works 3rd shift and his wife stays home and is awake/asleep when he is, and his son is still in high school, so between those two sleep schedules, someone is always sleeping when I can play. I just use headphones out of respect for their sleep. Honestly, my setup actually sounds really good. I mostly play Metal, so using my TL-2 for my dirt works out. I'm going to be getting some kind of OD in the near future for boosting through my amp and for lower gain stuff through my practice rig.

Now, when it's warmer out, I just take my stuff outside and play to the hills I can pretty much crank it as loud as I want at that point.

In my old apartment, I pretty much just played as loud as I felt like whenever, unless our room mates were asleep, then I would keep it down a little, but the acoustics of that place were awesome, because even when cranked, they could BARELY hear me in their bedroom.

Once we're out in an apartment again, I'll play through my amp, but I still think it's nice to have a headphone setup on hand.

I've actually been thinking about getting one of the VOX AmPlugs for playing quiet on the go. For stuff like warming up before a gig, or playing when visiting at someone's house.
Dave_Mc
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Join date: Mar 2005
440 IQ
#15
oh yeah i mean obviously if the people living with you are the problem then that's worth bearing in mind too
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

tubetime86
I don't even play guitar.
Join date: Jul 2008
170 IQ
#16
Get a new family? (Which in your case seems feasible, since they aren't actually your family. )
Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
Dave_Mc
Chirp and Swirl
Join date: Mar 2005
440 IQ
#17
we should add that to your proposed "what you need is a new house" thread.

TGP thinks it's the only place that's willing to sacrifice for guitar tone. they got nuthin' on us
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

tubetime86
I don't even play guitar.
Join date: Jul 2008
170 IQ
#18
Quote by Dave_Mc
we should add that to your proposed "what you need is a new house" thread.

TGP thinks it's the only place that's willing to sacrifice for guitar tone. they got nuthin' on us

I don't often do this, not even sure if I ever have, but...




Quote by Cathbard
Quote by Raijouta
Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
Dave_Mc
Chirp and Swirl
Join date: Mar 2005
440 IQ
#19
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

Blktiger0
The Name's Devon! ;)
Join date: Sep 2007
360 IQ
#20


Wow...

I'll be getting a new house/family as soon as possible. Right now we just can afford anything else. Believe me, not being able to play my amp is just skimming the top of the stack of reasons for why I can't wait to move.
woad_yurt
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2012
90 IQ
#21
....so there is no effective way of making the amp quieter using conventional guitar speakers.


I disagree. I have a 25 watt Champ 25 SE (2 6L6GCs.) Being a tube breakup freak, I took the original speaker out and replaced it with a MOD 12-50 rated at 94.5 db, the most inefficient affordable speaker I could find. Way back, with the original speaker, I did sound checks with the neighbors to find out what was ok. I put little tape markers on the amp next to the volume knob so I wouldn't accidentally go over. Now, with the new speaker, I can turn it up a couple of notches more before anyone hears it. I had to move my tape over a bit. If I use the same settings and play through one of my JBLs (102 db,) it's way louder, a huge difference.

BTW: I don't use my amp more quietly, really. I just turn it up more now to get the same volume I had before. I'm not playing more loudly but I am getting some nice break up that was absent before.

On topic: This is a good sticky request. It'd make a good spread sheet.
Last edited by woad_yurt at Feb 3, 2013,
Dave_Mc
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Join date: Mar 2005
440 IQ
#22
^ i don't think anyone is saying speakers make no difference- of course they do. It's that they won't drop a raging 100 watter down to bedroom volume (lol they don't bring a 5 watter down to bedroom volume). if you're very slightly too loud (and can find a less efficient speaker which does the tone you want) then speakers are definitely worth considering.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

gumbilicious
beginner
Join date: Oct 2007
250 IQ
#23
Quote by woad_yurt
I disagree. I have a 25 watt Champ 25 SE (2 6L6GCs.) Being a tube breakup freak, I took the original speaker out and replaced it with a MOD 12-50 rated at 94.5 db, the most inefficient affordable speaker I could find. Way back, with the original speaker, I did sound checks with the neighbors to find out what was ok. I put little tape markers on the amp next to the volume knob so I wouldn't accidentally go over. Now, with the new speaker, I can turn it up a couple of notches more before anyone hears it. I had to move my tape over a bit. If I use the same settings and play through one of my JBLs (102 db,) it's way louder, a huge difference.

BTW: I don't use my amp more quietly, really. I just turn it up more now to get the same volume I had before. I'm not playing more loudly but I am getting some nice break up that was absent before.


you disagree but your reasoning still supports the sentiment of my argument.

besides, my argument was not for 'cutting notches' on the volume knob. my statement was more about cutting your volume multiple orders of magnitude.


Quote by woad_yurt
On topic: This is a good sticky request. It'd make a good spread sheet.


it sounds like you went out of your way to find an inefficient speaker and the most inefficient speaker you found was 94.5 dB. let's say there is a 105 dB speaker out there and we'd have a list ranging from 94.5 dB to 105dB.

the first thing you'll find is most the speakers are around the 97 dB to 101 dB range with unusual speakers going above or below.

next you should note that there is no standard for the source signal when rating speaker sensitivity. the sensitivity rating is how loud the speaker is @1 m @ 1 watt, but what sort of signal is the speaker given? different companies use different techniques for how they get that sensitivity rating.

so there is some disconnect with comparisons using different companies testing methods? well there is also a big disconnect with testing conditions and real life conditions. most tests use simple wave forms that sweep through a freq range (or just play frequency and they test at that one frequency). when you play real instruments through an amp the sound will be complex waveforms, which make the speaker act much differently.

so there is also a big disconnect between test conditions and actual user playing conditions? well there are also limitations to the users hearing, your hearing is most sensitive at a particular frequency, higher or lower frequency sensitivity tapers off. these speaker sensitivity tests usually take none of that into consideration when giving a sensitivity rating.

so really, sensitivity ratings aren't overly useful. it may be able to you tell fairly quickly off a stat sheet that one speaker may be too quiet to match with another speaker... but it is hard to tell how 'loud' the speaker will actually sound.

take the K-100 and the V30 for example, both have the same sensitivity but the V30 is much louder sounding speaker and the sensitivity rating would give you no clue to that being the case.

so, going through all that:
-there is a fairly small spread in speaker sensitivity ratings
-different companies use different techniques to acquire ratings
-comparison between ratings is not accurate
-sensitivity does not reflect how loud your ear perceives sound

frankly, i don't trust sensitivity ratings. i'd prefer to see a freq response curve any day over a questionable sensitivity rating, you get a much better idea of how the speaker will sound.



this speaker really tapers off in the low end. that little hump around 1K will help that speaker stand out (that is right around where our ear is most sensitive) but the high end may sound a bit sizzly. even if this speaker has a lower sensitivity rating it will still sound pretty loud cuz of where the curve shows the freq content.



this speaker has quite a different response, it is scooped in the mid frequencies and has quite a bit of low end. this speaker will sit back in the mix more and will sound quieter than the speaker above.

i find these much more usable as a resource for seriously researching speakers.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Last edited by gumbilicious at Feb 3, 2013,
ikey_
Registered User
Join date: Dec 2009
370 IQ
#24
lowest i kno of is the eminence FDM speakers all the way down to like 91.5 or something. that makes a big difference.
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Blktiger0
The Name's Devon! ;)
Join date: Sep 2007
360 IQ
#25
Good info Gumbi! (as always )

If anything, the most useful a spreadsheet could be is listing the sensitivities in addition to a gross approximation of levels of bass, treble, and mids of various speakers. that would still have it's limitations in usefulness, though.

Really, there would be no good way to make a sticky out of this. What we need to do is convince companies to make ineffecient versions of the speakers they have for the purpose of getting tube breakup at reasonable volumes, but really, even that is extremely unlikely.

It WOULD be interesting if they could make a V30 rated at about 70db, though or I guess for the styles of music that usually want Power Tube breakup, a Greenback might be more appropriate.
gumbilicious
beginner
Join date: Oct 2007
250 IQ
#26
i can get some kinda idea what a speaker is about looking at some stats, but i much prefer to actually play the speaker. i am kinda against the idea of replacing playing experience with stats, i have seen speakers that looked awesome on paper and never worked out.

i'd had to mislead anyone that picking out speakers is just in exercise in number/chart comparing. this numbers are better for and engineer designing a hi-fi than a guitarist choosing a speaker.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
Offworld92
One among the fence.
Join date: Nov 2009
520 IQ
#27
I think most people that want lower volume don't specifically want breakup at lower volume.

I think the issue we're all skirting around is getting proper tone at low volume. Most tube amps don't "kick in" until about 1 or so. I think people want to be able to get that tone at .5 or so.

I know next to nothing about circuits or design - so I don't know if that happens because of the way the amp is designed, or unavoidable limitations, or if it's simply the perception of volume by our ears (though I doubt the latter, as it's a pretty dramatic change).
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

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ikey_
Registered User
Join date: Dec 2009
370 IQ
#28
right, and part of what those FDM speakers allow you to do is at the same volume, run your amp at 2 instead of 0.5 or something. i guess that depends on the amp....
Carvin CT624
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Offworld92
One among the fence.
Join date: Nov 2009
520 IQ
#29
Have you used them yourself?
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
woad_yurt
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2012
90 IQ
#30
Gumbi:

There's a big difference in volume between the two speakers when the settings are left the same. I hear it, my neighbor heard it and my friends hear it. I was and am not quantifying the difference with numbers and measurements; I know that the db ratings were from the manufacturers, not from an independent testing lab. I don't know the amount of difference exactly but it's definitely noticeable. I was and am speaking relatively, not quantifiably.

....so there is no effective way of making the amp quieter using conventional guitar speakers.

Except in my living room, I guess. That was my only point.

Seriously, you never heard that ceramic JBLs are really loud? It's common knowledge. That's what they were famous for.
Last edited by woad_yurt at Feb 3, 2013,
Blktiger0
The Name's Devon! ;)
Join date: Sep 2007
360 IQ
#31
^

What Gumbi is saying is that the small difference in efficiency isn't enough for what most people want. For most applications, it's pointless to bump you volume up slightly, but more like half of the volume knob.

For example, my 120w doesn't really hit it's full potential for tone until the Master is about at noon, with the channel volume for the drive channel at about 10:30. However, decent bedroom volume for me is usually with the Master no higher than about 8:00

That's a GIANT difference, and just a slightly less efficient speaker isn't going to come close to that difference. Sure, it might help, but it won't turn gig volumes into bedroom volumes, and that's what most people need.

In your case, you were already cranking your amp, but needed just a little more juice from the tubes to get the breakup you want. The less efficient speaker did exactly that for you, and that's about the most they can do.

He was also explaining that having a spreadsheet about the efficiency wouldn't necessarily tell you what speakers are louder or quieter. The frequency response plays just as big of a role, not to mention the way it was measured. Basically, a spreadsheet would still be wildly inaccurate.
woad_yurt
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2012
90 IQ
#32
In my truck, I have a 19 gallon gas tank. I bought a new tank and sending unit & the sending unit they sent me was the wrong one. I didn't know it until I had the whole mess installed. If I fill it up, the gas gauge needle won't budge from full until I've used up about 10 gallons. Then, the needle will move quickly. I know it's not quantifiably accurate but it's relatively accurate. It's "wildly inaccurate" yet it still tells me something, like when I'm getting low.

A single source of manufacturer's speaker specs would serve the same purpose. You wouldn't need to ferret it all out from dozens of websites and you could at least start with what the makers say is their efficient or inefficient end of the spectrum. A spreadsheet with makers' stats all in one spot with be a good starting point in one's search for a speaker.

BTW, if a spreadsheet made up of manufacturer's specs would be useless, then those same specs sprinkled in bits and pieces separately all over the place would be inconvenient in addition to being just as useless. That's why the library has a history section or a science section, so you can find what's available in a single place. You guys are saying that it's better to look all over instead of in one place. That makes no sense.
Offworld92
One among the fence.
Join date: Nov 2009
520 IQ
#33
^ That is a good point, and kind of what I was thinking initially. Even if the ratings don't mean much, we could at least state that here in some kind of disclaimer. Better then letting less knowledge people think/assume the ratings were all done on the same scale.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
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woad_yurt
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2012
90 IQ
#34
Thank you! Someone gets it! I was beginning to think that what I wrote was someohow different from what people saw. Thank you!
Last edited by woad_yurt at Feb 4, 2013,