Poll: Is retro/vintage holding music back?
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View poll results: Is retro/vintage holding music back?
Yeah, we need to move on
6 11%
Meh, you're a ****
13 24%
Nah, nothing wrong with the classics
35 65%
Voters: 54.
loose bowels
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#1
So I'm in the middle of reading Simon Reynolds - 'Retromania', pretty good book but mostly about genres that can only rehash hallmarks/stereotypes.

For example rock bands are still using guitars that were designed in the 50's and while they've tried to make changes and bring out new designs, people seem content to stick to a handful of designs that have always been popular. Metals bands as well still use guitars that haven't advanced much from the superstrats of the 80's. There's even amps and effects pedals that pride themselves on a 'vintage' sound.

So do you think music suffers from being stuck in the past? Or do these technologies survive because they're just really good?
OUT OF ORDER
treborillusion
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#2
YouTube post overload.


What to post? What to post?

Great thread, also, I want to get in before the thread /close.
Quote by laid-to-waste
look nigga, if you're chillin with 5 bros and 2 hos, you're gonna wanna pay attention to all of em equally. not moon over the hos forever and laugh at every shitty thing they say and just stare at them all night, like some of my mates do.
shavorules42
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#3
Quote by treborillusion
YouTube post overload.


What to post? What to post?

Great thread, also, I want to get in before the thread /close.

I hate you.
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treborillusion
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#5
GOT IT!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAI9OTQew6Y

I'd post this.

Also... This song reminds me of this ex gf of mine because it was in the film Dark Shadows (2012) that was out when we were together.
Quote by laid-to-waste
look nigga, if you're chillin with 5 bros and 2 hos, you're gonna wanna pay attention to all of em equally. not moon over the hos forever and laugh at every shitty thing they say and just stare at them all night, like some of my mates do.
Last edited by treborillusion at Feb 3, 2013,
treborillusion
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Join date: May 2009
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#7
Nah, nothing wrong with the classics

I'm just going to assume this should be in the music section, glancing at the OP seeing some blah-dee blah-dee bloom about 50s, guitar and 80s.
Quote by laid-to-waste
look nigga, if you're chillin with 5 bros and 2 hos, you're gonna wanna pay attention to all of em equally. not moon over the hos forever and laugh at every shitty thing they say and just stare at them all night, like some of my mates do.
The Madcap
Classical Guitarist
Join date: May 2007
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#9
It's just something that occurs with the natural progression of music. Kinda like how some of Mozart's stuff like his requiem could get a little Bach-ish at times.
whoomit
Join date: Jul 2006
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#10
Quote by The Madcap
It's just something that occurs with the natural progression of music. Kinda like how some of Mozart's stuff like his requiem could get a little Bach-ish at times.

lol he couldn't handel it
crazysam23_Atax
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#11
Well, let me put it this way. Are there improvements to music? Yes, but they're more things like how it's easier than ever to record on your computer than ever before. As far as guitars & such...I would say that there definitely have been improvements in amps, pedals, & guitar pickups. It seems that we like a lot of the old aesthetics is all.
muffinduck01
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#12
But metal bands do use new guitar designs.

They just all look like shit and have 3000 pointy bits.
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Jack Off Jill
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#13
No. I can use a retro sounding amplifier and I can also use an Axe Fx. I can use an ADA Flanger along with a Line 6 Flanger. Music would suffer if I didn't have the option.

I was hoping this thread would be about retro stuff we like. I like retro futuristic art.

Who wants to talk about retro futuristic art?
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#14
Quote by muffinduck01
But metal bands do use new guitar designs.

They just all look like shit and have 3000 pointy bits.


Thats what I was gonna post

The fact is that it is still a guitar. Doesn't really matter whether its a Les Paul style or a Razorback. You can still play the same things on both. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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AtaBorMan
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#15
Quote by Jack Off Jill
No. I can use a retro sounding amplifier and I can also use an Axe Fx. I can use an ADA Flanger along with a Line 6 Flanger. Music would suffer if I didn't have the option.

I was hoping this thread would be about retro stuff we like. I like retro futuristic art.

Who wants to talk about retro futuristic art?


I do. Do 80's count as retro? In that case, Somewhere in time.
Otherwise, all them space ship-y things from the 60's.Buses, trains, everything.
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TVeye
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#16
People have been trying to break the rules ever since there were rules.
If there was a better way to do it, we would be doing it that way.

BTW ..... Max, WTF? Put away the needle or learn how to communicate in English!
willT08
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#17
Quote by loose bowels

So do you think music suffers from being stuck in the past? Or do these technologies survive because they're just really good?

How have you extrapolated from guitars to all of music?

Music is more experimental and futuristic than ever

EDIT: I really cannot even begin to fathom how you've looked at music today and gone "Yeah man, look how it's all stuck in the past" you dolt
justinb904
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#18
Nothing wrong with enjoying the classics out using older style instruments and such.
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psyks
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#19
Every artistic movement goes through three phases - Fuck the rules. Let's invent new rules. Actually, let's just stick to these new rules.
That process is repeated. It's analogy is something like baroque - romantic - classical and it was written by some dude I learnt about last year

Anyway, people still play pianos and they were invented a while ago, but nobody's pointing at blues pianists claiming they're all nostalgic about Mozart.

Also I think part of the reason vintage amps and effects are popular (aside from the reason retro anything exists, and fuck your tattoos) is because high end music production got ahead of itself and compressed tracks, over gated snares and punched recordings. Peeps want to sound like what music sounded like when it was faithfully recorded.
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Last edited by psyks at Feb 3, 2013,
Holy Katana
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#20
I love Simon Reynolds. One of my favorite music journalists.

Eh, I think there's a certain resistance to new ideas among musicians, which is what causes most innovative new gear to not sell at all. And I've noticed a lot of said musicians have this weird pride about it. You know, the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality, only they're smug about it. Like, they're proud of the fact that they don't use anything new, and boast about it.

This is largely something that guitarists have a problem with, though. And to a slightly lesser extent synthesists (most keyboardists don't really have the whole analog fetish thing going on).

Like, I've noticed bassists really aren't like that at all. They embraced solid-state amps, ergonomic instrument designs, tons of active onboard electronics, etc.

Quote by psyks
Every artistic movement goes through three phases - Fuck the rules. Let's invent new rules. Actually, let's just stick to these new rules.
That process is repeated. It's analogy is something like baroque - romantic - classical and it was written by some dude I learnt about last year

The Classical period happened before the Romantic period, brah.
Last edited by Holy Katana at Feb 3, 2013,
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#21
i embrace solid state amps. not modeling amps tho cuz they model tube amps which is stupid.

the way everybody still uses fenders and gibsons is pretty disgusting. but they don't really make cheap guitars that aren't more or less modeled after '50s-'80s models, so what can ya do.
psyks
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#22
Quote by Holy Katana
The Classical period happened before the Romantic period, brah.
Yeah I know, I can't remember the analogy. It's like 3 am and I'm trying desperately not to think about editing a 3000 word essay :I
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Jack Off Jill
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#23
Quote by AtaBorMan
I do. Do 80's count as retro? In that case, Somewhere in time.
Otherwise, all them space ship-y things from the 60's.Buses, trains, everything.

Naw, the 80s don't count. Though I do like a lot of Sci if paintings from the 80s.

Recently they started rereleasing old Mars Attacks trading cards. I've been collecting them because I love the retro futuristic artwork on them. And who doesn't love the Forbidden Planet posters. Movies should go back to having posters like those.
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Somelamekid
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#24
Quote by muffinduck01
But metal bands do use new guitar designs.

They just all look like shit and have 3000 pointy bits.


Woah dude, your avatar is perfectly in sync with my song, as I was headbanging as well.

(On topic) When I was a kid I always wondered why there wasn't many "different" mass produced models of guitars. I walk in guitar center and there's just walls full of Les pauls, Strats and SG's.
The flying V and Explorer seem to be the most innovative designs (without being completely impractical) we've had in a long time.

Even some of the "new" guitar models are just slight variations of older ones.
Can't we make something new for once?
smartalecG94
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#25
Quote by metaldud536
Reading the responses, I have no idea what this thread is supposed to be about.

Lol'd at. I was so confused on those first few posts.
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#26
Quote by Somelamekid
Woah dude, your avatar is perfectly in sync with my song, as I was headbanging as well.

(On topic) When I was a kid I always wondered why there wasn't many "different" mass produced models of guitars. I walk in guitar center and there's just walls full of Les pauls, Strats and SG's.
The flying V and Explorer seem to be the most innovative designs (without being completely impractical) we've had in a long time.

Even some of the "new" guitar models are just slight variations of older ones.
Can't we make something new for once?

The SG is a newer design than both the V and the Explorer. By three years.

Also, they weren't really all that innovative other than introducing korina as a wood for use in guitars. They were just aesthetically different.
crazysam23_Atax
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#27
Quote by Somelamekid
Even some of the "new" guitar models are just slight variations of older ones.
Can't we make something new for once?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The main innovations are things I already mentioned, like pickups. Also, there's been many amp innovations since the '80s and early '90s.

People need to stop acting like just because it looks the same, there's been zero innovations.
Holy Katana
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#28
I'd shut up if someone made a seven-string Jazzmaster. Schecter make a seven-string hardtail Jaguar that's only available in Japan, but that's not the same thing, and it's only available in Japan.
So-Cal
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#29
I think LP, strat and tele style guitars have survived for so long because they are the best shape and style for comfort and tonality. It's like trying to innovate the violin by making it triangular, there's a reason they're the shape that they are. Of course I'm not including innovations such as graphite nuts and push-pull switches, because they just improve on the original design.
Holy Katana
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#30
Quote by So-Cal
I think LP, strat and tele style guitars have survived for so long because they are the best shape and style for comfort and tonality. It's like trying to innovate the violin by making it triangular, there's a reason they're the shape that they are. Of course I'm not including innovations such as graphite nuts and push-pull switches, because they just improve on the original design.

The Strat is really the only one of those that's even slightly ergonomically designed, and even then it's pretty obvious that it's hardly perfect.

People don't actually want ergonomic guitars, possibly because of image. Most ergonomically designed guitars other than Strandbergs are pretty ugly, and pretty much all of them look like something only really dorky guitarists would play, not something their hero(es) would sling around their neck. Parkers are a compromise, which is probably why they're relatively successful. It probably helps that they have forward-thinking endorsees like Adrian Belew and Vernon Reid, too, even though neither are exactly super-famous.

Although Strandberg has Paul Masvidal and Allan Holdsworth now, so hey, who knows? Still, that doesn't really do much to help its reputation as a company that makes guitars for hardcore guitar geeks.
treborillusion
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#31
Gibson have been making quality guitars for a long time.

The LP dates back to the 1950s...

I'm sure new tech has yet to come that'll make that Les Paul have new sounds/tones.

I was thinking the other day, because of this thread; wouldn't it be cool to sample something, anything, and then make that a channel on your multi effect and, when ever you want, get 'THAT' tone, that you sample, through that old guitar designed in the 1950s.
Quote by laid-to-waste
look nigga, if you're chillin with 5 bros and 2 hos, you're gonna wanna pay attention to all of em equally. not moon over the hos forever and laugh at every shitty thing they say and just stare at them all night, like some of my mates do.
ProphetToJables
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#33
They're tools. We still use hammers and screwdrivers and get around just fine.
Gear:

Gibson 2005 Les Paul Standard
Fender Road Worn Strat w/ Noiseless pickups
Marshall JCM 2000 401C
Marshall Vintage Modern 2266
Marshall 1960A cab (Dave Hill from Slade's old cab)
Ibanez TS9DX
EHX Little Big Muff
Freshman Acoustic
crazysam23_Atax
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#34
Quote by treborillusion
I was thinking the other day, because of this thread; wouldn't it be cool to sample something, anything, and then make that a channel on your multi effect and, when ever you want, get 'THAT' tone, that you sample, through that old guitar designed in the 1950s.

They sort of already have this. Problem is, they're expensive pieces of equipment to buy. Basically, you can copy amp tones.
treborillusion
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#35
Well, I wanted to sample the sound of a train wheel screech/brake - and have THAT sort of guitar tone.
Quote by laid-to-waste
look nigga, if you're chillin with 5 bros and 2 hos, you're gonna wanna pay attention to all of em equally. not moon over the hos forever and laugh at every shitty thing they say and just stare at them all night, like some of my mates do.
ProphetToJables
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#36
Why don't you just run the train screech through a vocoder?
Gear:

Gibson 2005 Les Paul Standard
Fender Road Worn Strat w/ Noiseless pickups
Marshall JCM 2000 401C
Marshall Vintage Modern 2266
Marshall 1960A cab (Dave Hill from Slade's old cab)
Ibanez TS9DX
EHX Little Big Muff
Freshman Acoustic
Holy Katana
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#37
Quote by ProphetToJables
Why don't you just run the train screech through a vocoder?

This.

Have it be the carrier, then your guitar be the modulator. This has been possible for decades. Of course, only in the past few years did it become affordable (or free, as the case may be; there are free VST vocoders), but the technology's been around for long over 50 years (the vocoder was actually invented in 1928). Granted, digital vocoders are much more high-def than analog ones, allowing for far more frequency bands, and thus a more accurate signal, but the basic concept's quite old.
Last edited by Holy Katana at Feb 4, 2013,
sashki
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#38
There's nothing wrong with the classics, although I wish some people would abandon the mindset that old = better.

A lot of modern bands sound like they're aping something great from the past without really grasping the subtleties. However, there are, and will always be, bands that do their own thing. Even if they aren't popular now, their music is more likely to stand the test of time.