Useful Utensils
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2013
391 IQ
#1
Hi guys, I'm looking to get a whole new setup (guitar + amp), it is completely inevitable and necessary. I have a Fender Stratocaster rip-off and a brandless amp, the tone is crap, and that's sugar-coating it. I'm starting to play small gigs, and I have to borrow amps/guitars. I'm definitely considering an Epiphone Les Paul Standard and a Line 6 Spider IV 75, I think I've been playing for about 6 months and this duo is just toneless bland crap. I've heard great things about Les Paul Standards and for a beginner/intermediate it seems quite suitable. I've found some online for about $420, in a plain black colour, and a local music store said it'd be about $750 for one with a cool maple (I think) top with a nice gradient sunbursty-colour. I've only been to one music store in search of this guitar, so hopefully I could either talk them down to $500, or buy one from another store . If you guys could post some opinions/suggestions about the Les Paul Standard, and the Spider IV 75 would be great! Thanks in advance.
Tanglewood 85 Les Paul <3
Vox V847 <3
Orange Pix Crush
randywolf244
resident arrogant
Join date: Feb 2013
587 IQ
#2
That's a great amp. I have a buddy with one. I'm personally not a fan of les Pauls but to each his own their great guitars I'm just more of a fender guy. Good luck man
dazza027
Serial Pain in the Arse
Join date: Aug 2011
1,003 IQ
#3
Where are you? I was looking at a Zac Wilde Epiphone Les Paul for $400 Australian... I bought my Epiphone LP Custom for $350... As far as amps go, everyone else on here will say buy a Peavey Vyper or Roland Cube somethen or other. They'll also say stay away from the Line 6 which Id agree with. I have an uncle that has the Spider 4 combo and it blew the main board not long ago, it sounded OK I guess while it worked but yeah... not my cup of tea. Besides, Les Pauls are practically built for Marshall amps so thats where what Id be looking for, a Marshall that isnt an MG series and all tube.
Useful Utensils
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2013
391 IQ
#4
Thanks, the guy at the music-store said that amp is not as 'warm' as Marshalls and what not. But that's probably just him trying to make more money
Tanglewood 85 Les Paul <3
Vox V847 <3
Orange Pix Crush
Useful Utensils
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2013
391 IQ
#5
Also, I'm on the Gold Coast (Queensland, Australia).
Tanglewood 85 Les Paul <3
Vox V847 <3
Orange Pix Crush
dazza027
Serial Pain in the Arse
Join date: Aug 2011
1,003 IQ
#6
Should be plenty of good stuff down there for sale seeing as half the population is of criminal or drug smuggling persuasion...
SteveJB1989
Registered User
Join date: Mar 2013
122 IQ
#7
Don't buy a Line 6 Spider whatever you do. Buy the Epiphone (Good Guitars) but buy like a used Peavey Classic 30 or Peavey Vyper or something, at least a good solid state or maybe a half decent tube amp. Something you wont be discouraged with. Line 6 Spider, quite possibly the worst amp of all time
Bluffer
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2013
31 IQ
#8
I brought a epiphone les paul standard with the flametop a few months back and its a good guitar for the money you pay, after a while i upgraded the pickups with some seymour duncans and the only . I've played on it for hours and its sounded good. I did eventually change the pickups to seymour duncans but the pickups it comes with are still decent to my ear
Useful Utensils
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2013
391 IQ
#9
Thanks guys, I'm definitely buying an Epiphone LP (or something similar) now! Thanks for the advice of the Line 6 amps, I guess for the same price I could get a legit amp. I guess I only need a pure amp, I don't really need pedals and shit. Just a decent amp with some powerful overdrive I really only play Rock, Metal etc. Seems like the Les Paul suits my style and I'll look into getting a Marshall or a Peavey or something.
Tanglewood 85 Les Paul <3
Vox V847 <3
Orange Pix Crush
SteveJB1989
Registered User
Join date: Mar 2013
122 IQ
#11
Quote by Bluffer
I brought a epiphone les paul standard with the flametop a few months back and its a good guitar for the money you pay, after a while i upgraded the pickups with some seymour duncans and the only . I've played on it for hours and its sounded good. I did eventually change the pickups to seymour duncans but the pickups it comes with are still decent to my ear


+1
robertwilliam9
Registered User
Join date: May 2012
324 IQ
#12
Man, I'd definitely recommend the Line 6 Amp! I have two of them and they're absolutely fantastic in my opinion.

As far as the guitar goes, I've always heard good things about Epiphone, and I used to own an Epiphone SG way back in the day. I'd say your purchasing plan is quite solid. Good luck!
Paul Reed Smith CE-24 2005 and Santana SE with Seymour Duncan pickups.
Line 6 Amplifiers
Boss Effects and Steve Vai's Wah Pedal
Dunlop Picks and Elixir Strings .48


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sea`
Registered User
Join date: Sep 2007
12 IQ
#13
The Epiphone Les Paul Standard is a great guitar for the money. The differences between them and Gibsons are extremely minor and mostly come down to finish details and quality of the pickups.

Stay away from the Line 6 Spider. Let us know what kind of music styles you play and we'll go from there in recommending an amp.
samuraigoomba
Registered User
Join date: Oct 2012
491 IQ
#14
Quote by sea`
The Epiphone Les Paul Standard is a great guitar for the money. The differences between them and Gibsons are extremely minor and mostly come down to finish details and quality of the pickups.

Why do people keep saying this?

The "gibson is a giant scam/conspiracy theory" notion is completely false. People pay more for Gibsons because, on average, they are much better guitars in every way. I mean, imagine if somebody said "the only difference between the epiphone LP special 2 and the Epiphone LP Standard is extremely minor differences in finish and pickup quality." You'd be pissed, right? Because it isn't true.
dazzzer30
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2013
1,592 IQ
#15
Quote by samuraigoomba
Why do people keep saying this?

The "gibson is a giant scam/conspiracy theory" notion is completely false. People pay more for Gibsons because, on average, they are much better guitars in every way. I mean, imagine if somebody said "the only difference between the epiphone LP special 2 and the Epiphone LP Standard is extremely minor differences in finish and pickup quality." You'd be pissed, right? Because it isn't true.

my Epiphone Lp sounds just as good as my friends gibson i dont care if his is better quality .
sea`
Registered User
Join date: Sep 2007
12 IQ
#16
Quote by samuraigoomba
Why do people keep saying this?

The "gibson is a giant scam/conspiracy theory" notion is completely false. People pay more for Gibsons because, on average, they are much better guitars in every way. I mean, imagine if somebody said "the only difference between the epiphone LP special 2 and the Epiphone LP Standard is extremely minor differences in finish and pickup quality." You'd be pissed, right? Because it isn't true.

Gibsons are better: better finishes, better tonewoods, better pickups, better hardware. I don't think they are 3x the price better, though, and hilariously enough the "low quality" Epiphone QC may actually be a step above Gibson's (or at least quite comparable). I've seen Gibsons with horrible problems: messed up neck angles, bad fretwork, poorly cut nut slots, bad electronics, terrible setups out of the factory, you name it. If you check the inspection sheet many guitars actually fail to pass certain checks yet are OK'd for sale anyway.
HowlerMonkey
Registered User
Join date: Mar 2012
21 IQ
#17
China or Korea?

I'm of the thinking that the individual working on the guitar at the factory is more important than the factory itself......if the two factories compared are under the same guidelines.
dazza027
Serial Pain in the Arse
Join date: Aug 2011
1,003 IQ
#18
Ive seen wickedly bad issues with Gibson QC on guitars retailing 3 times the price of my Epi custom, the worst being a chunk gouged out of the fretboard on a black widow les paul which had a sticker price of 10 grand... I cannot for the life of me find any problems QC related with my custom except for the gold plating wearing off the TOM and pup covers and tuner knobs. Theres no dings, no missalignments, no flaws in the finish or anything like that. That little chinese guy that put my guitar together knew damn well that if he didnt do a good job for his $6 a day then theres 1.7 billion other ****ers in china that will. This is why you rarely hear about Epiphone QC issues because they know theyd be out on the street if they **** it up.
SteveHOC
Used Register
Join date: Jul 2012
1,051 IQ
#19
Why is it necessary to do the Gibson VS Epiphone thing anytime either is brought up in a thread? Seriously, there are pages to read of this on the forum if you're so inclined, and likely any argument you make on either side here has been made in one of those threads.

Both good for different things for different people in their own right.

It's not peace in the Middle East for Christ's sake, and we're all snowflakes.
OffsetOffset
Last edited by SteveHOC at Mar 22, 2013,
T00DEEPBLUE
Boba FRETT
Join date: Oct 2010
2,270 IQ
#20
Quote by dazza027
Ive seen wickedly bad issues with Gibson QC on guitars retailing 3 times the price of my Epi custom, the worst being a chunk gouged out of the fretboard on a black widow les paul which had a sticker price of 10 grand... I cannot for the life of me find any problems QC related with my custom except for the gold plating wearing off the TOM and pup covers and tuner knobs. Theres no dings, no missalignments, no flaws in the finish or anything like that. That little chinese guy that put my guitar together knew damn well that if he didnt do a good job for his $6 a day then theres 1.7 billion other ****ers in china that will. This is why you rarely hear about Epiphone QC issues because they know theyd be out on the street if they **** it up.

Which is why you always try guitars before you buy them.

And if you don't like them? You return them. I honestly don't know what the big deal is.

And a lack of QC issues on Epiphones? Lol.
Quote by SteveHOC
Why is it necessary to do the Gibson VS Epiphone thing anytime either is brought up in a thread.

Because a sticky on the topic hasn't been made yet.
Quote by Axelfox
Please understand how little we as a community care
Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Mar 22, 2013,
zucky22389
Registered User
Join date: Dec 2009
378 IQ
#21
@OP: Although I have never owned an Epi LP, I have played a few and it seemed as though each one had a quality issue, sometimes a blemish on the top, other times a loose pickup switch or pot knob. That being said, they do sound pretty solid to my ear. Pick a nicely finished example, get some sort of aftermarket pickups/pots, and a pro set-up, and you'll have a great guitar. If you want to save some money and take a risk, Agile has an LP shape that I have heard great things about.. for less money than the Epi:

http://www.rondomusic.com/AL3010secsb.html

You can also custom order an Agile AL 3XXX... though orders won't be shipped until September(?) and it sounds like you need an axe asap.

As for the Line 6 Spider IV 75W.... I had that exact same amp for over 2 years (and before that, a spider III 15 w). For modern metal, it's great. I don't know why most everyone is ragging on it! To me it would serve more of a bedroom/jam purpose and not a gig amp. There's noticeable volume jumps when you change channels... and I didn't even use 90% of the presets; It has alot of customizable options though. With a drummer at higher volume, it doesn't sound nearly as good as it does at a practice volume level... and during the last few months of ownership, it was simply cutting out at high volume. Again, a great bedroom practice amp, but not a gigging amp. I have an EVH 5150 III and it's amazing for hard rock/metal!
SteveHOC
Used Register
Join date: Jul 2012
1,051 IQ
#22
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Because a sticky on the topic hasn't been made yet.


Is there a petition for this somewhere? Really, it's every damn week.
OffsetOffset
trashedlostfdup
diet coke fiend.
Join date: Apr 2010
13,606 IQ
#23
Quote by SteveHOC
Is there a petition for this somewhere? Really, it's every damn week.


i will give you my john hancock. ~trashedlostfdup
i assume others will follow.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.
Fenderexpx50
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2009
380 IQ
#24
The main issue with Epiphone guitars, at least the mid to upper range ones, is usually the electronics. I've had an Epiphone LP Custom for well over a year now. Overall, it's a solid instrument, but the pickups leave something to be desired. The switch doesn't feel too solid, but it still works. Replacing the pots, switch, and pickups has yielded a very nice sounding guitar. Honestly, I've always used Epiphones at gigs. Even when I had Gibsons, I used those in the studio. At a gig, no one in the audience is going to walk away saying, "Man, that song would've been so much better with a real Les Paul." Plus if one breaks, is stolen, whatever, I can replace it for a few hundred.
soundjam
Registered User
Join date: Apr 2009
169 IQ
#25
Get a good tube amp, brand based on genre you play. Line 6 is good for the choice of effects, but if you plan on playing live much at all you'll want to figure out what effects you're gonna use and get pedals for those anyways.

As for guitars, I have just one opinion. Find one that you like, both looks and more importantly how it plays and feels. You can get new pickups to get the sound you want in just about any guitar if you look hard enough.
Shadowofravenwo
Recent tube convert
Join date: Feb 2012
1,676 IQ
#26
Quote by SteveHOC
Why is it necessary to do the Gibson VS Epiphone thing anytime either is brought up in a thread? Seriously, there are pages to read of this on the forum if you're so inclined, and likely any argument you make on either side here has been made in one of those threads.

Both good for different things for different people in their own right.

It's not peace in the Middle East for Christ's sake, and we're all snowflakes.


My theory? A good chunk of guitarists on here are insecure about their purchases and feel the need validate them.
Washburn MG-44(E)
Ibanez RG421 (Eb)
Art & Lutherie Electric Cutaway
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Vox AC4tv 1x10
Vox Original Wah-Wah Pedal V847-A
MXR '78 Custom Badass Distortion
Shadowofravenwo
Recent tube convert
Join date: Feb 2012
1,676 IQ
#27
Quote by trashedlostfdup
i will give you my john hancock. ~trashedlostfdup
i assume others will follow.

Here's mine:
Shadowofravenwolf

As long as it's not a biased piece of crap.
Washburn MG-44(E)
Ibanez RG421 (Eb)
Art & Lutherie Electric Cutaway
Vox Valvetronix VT40
Vox AC4tv 1x10
Vox Original Wah-Wah Pedal V847-A
MXR '78 Custom Badass Distortion
T00DEEPBLUE
Boba FRETT
Join date: Oct 2010
2,270 IQ
#28
Here's mine:
T00DEEPBLUE

The sooner it's made, the better.
Quote by Axelfox
Please understand how little we as a community care
trashedlostfdup
diet coke fiend.
Join date: Apr 2010
13,606 IQ
#29
Quote by Shadowofravenwo
Here's mine:
Shadowofravenwolf

As long as it's not a biased piece of crap.

thank you fine sir.


no bias. think like more of a permanent cease fire.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.
trashedlostfdup
diet coke fiend.
Join date: Apr 2010
13,606 IQ
#30
Here's mine:
T00DEEPBLUE

The sooner it's made, the better.



thank you as well.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.
Buttbaby
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2012
17 IQ
#31
I was asking myself the same question a couple of years ago, and took the advice of getting a Gibson Les Paul Studio, since the resell value on this is better if I want to upgrade later. I have not regretted once. My studio got sold and replaced with an Gibson LP Traditional, which also was accompanied by a Gibson LP Junior and a Gibsons LP traditional short time after.
deepstreibzy666
Registered User
Join date: Jul 2012
123 IQ
#32
The Epi LP is a very good guitar for it's price. Stay away from the Line 6, though, they're pieces of crap.
dspellman
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2012
1,110 IQ
#33
Quote by samuraigoomba
Why do people keep saying this?

People pay more for Gibsons because, on average, they are much better guitars in every way.


Um, no. If you're spending $2500 (here in the US) and up for a Gibson, you should expect to get a pretty decent instrument. My personal "bottom" these days for a Gibson is around $3K. Above that I can expect to get a guitar that will come fairly close to what I've already got from Gibson over the years (I have Gibsons dating back to 1949).

But below that level, Gibson isn't doing a great job -- they're building guitars to a price point.

Gibson buys its woods from the same sources as the Asian manufacturers, and they do NOT, honestly, buy better wood on average. Most of the hardware and electronics on Gibsons are sourced in Korea and China. They make their pickups on big machines that do tons at a time (exactly as the Korean and Chinese factories do) using the same wire and magnets. There's no magic there and nothing special.

Under $1000, the Asian guitars rule. If you didn't have the headstock to look at, and you took an Asian guitar and a Gibson guitar that both sold for $700, you could tell the difference, all right. The Asian guitar is superior.

I have an Agile AL-3100 that has triple binding on body and headstock, single binding on the neck. It has a solid mahogany body, solid mahogany neck (by the way, most mahogany of the species that Gibson refers to as Honduras Mahogany Gibson now buys from Asian sources such as Indonesia, where it's farmed on plantations). It has a grain-filled gloss finish that's as thin as any Gibson Standard's. The Agile has real MOP inlays. Gibson uses plastic ("pearloid"). The Agile has a real ebony fretboard (Gibson uses laminated rosewood/Richlite (plastic)/Obeche/baked maple). The Agiles are just now beginning to come with stainless steel frets (you can't even special order that on a Gibson). This model now comes with locking tuners (not on the Gibbies), a Tusq nut (not on the Gibbies), a Graphtech bridge with String Saver Saddles (Gibbies have a zamack bridge), hand-filed frets and AlnicoV pickups that most folks think are pretty close to a '57. A lot of those things you don't get on a $2500 Gibson, much less anything that comes close to the Agile's $400 price tag. I had that Agile's frets superglued (Gibson doesn't bother gluing its frets any more) and tossed on the PLEK machine, and I defy anyone to find any Gibson that plays better at low action.

Look, what Gibson sells best is its history.

It was the best guitar on the market when folks like Hendrix and Clapton and Page played. All three played Fenders as well, but even Leo acknowledged Gibson's position. That began to change in the '70's when Japanese guitars' quality exceeded that of Gibson, and by the mid-80's, when Slash came along playing on AFD, he didn't play a Gibson. He played a copy of an OLDER Gibson LP, put together in someone's shop. That copy of an older Gibson saved Gibson's corporate life and made Henry J's purchase of the Gibson company for a paltry $4M seem like genius. Henry has been riding Slash's talent and the monied Baby Boomer generation's appetite for nostalgia ever since.

Intrinsically, nitrocellulose isn't a better finish in ANY respect for a guitar. But it's the traditional and historical one for an LP. The clunky neck heel on an LP is a mess for upper fret access (the Agile AL-3200 and the Gibson Axcess have the right combination), but it's traditional. The "nibs" on bound-neck Gibsons reduces the string spacing and allows the high E string to get snagged at the end of the fret. Silly things. But traditional. The plastic inlays discolor and shrivel over time, while MOP doesn't. But they're traditional, as are the plastic keystone knobs that also discolor and shrivel over time. Gibson does NOT use better materials; they actually use WORSE ones than most other guitars. But they're *traditional.* And that's what's driving sales and that's what's feeding Gibson's coffers.

This isn't a Gibson bash by any means. If what you want is that elven mythology and that pseudo-connection with rock legends of 30-40 years ago that Gibson Marketing pushes so hard, you want a Gibson.

But the Boomer generation is moving into retirement at the rate of 11,000 per day, all 78 million of them, over the next 12-15 years. And that money is NOT going to go for faded dreams of rock and roll hero worship any more. And Gibson is going to have to change its marketing and its pricing and its products, and it's going to have to turn on a dime. Unfortunately, it's probably going to make that turn and see Asian manufacturers are already there, and that they've been there with the entry level guitars all along and that they have brand loyalty now as those guitarists move upscale. Should be interesting.
Mephaphil
No empty frets.
Join date: Apr 2012
1,956 IQ
#34
I don't get why everyone comes here saying they're gonna get the Spider or the MG.

Don't people have ears?
dannyalcatraz
Black Cherry Jello
Join date: Dec 2008
3,265 IQ
#35
Taste is subjective- there are jazz cats out there who can't understand why anyone would want to listen to anything heavier than Al DiMeola, so ALL that distorted music sounds crappy to them.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!


alhaq369
It is very impotent to success a business.
dannyalcatraz
Black Cherry Jello
Join date: Dec 2008
3,265 IQ
#36
My take on Epi vs Gibson: It's the mojo, not the brand label. Any maker can pump out a lemon or a gem of a guitar.

I have seen several pro players who use Epis* and they sound great. I have seen pros use Squires as their main gigging axe, despite owning guitars that cost more than my Honda Accord.

Buy guitars that feel good and sound good and you'll never be dissatisfied.


* such as Vigilante Carlstroem (The Hives), "Captain" Kirk Douglas (The Roots), and Trustworth Samende (Mokoomba)
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!


alhaq369
It is very impotent to success a business.
Last edited by dannyalcatraz at Aug 7, 2013,
dspellman
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2012
1,110 IQ
#37
Quote by Mephaphil
I don't get why everyone comes here saying they're gonna get the Spider or the MG.

Don't people have ears?


Actually, over here, it's usually one of the Spiders or the Fender Mustangs.
Thing is, these are largely newb and/or limited budget amps and they're sold based on the number of things that are built in. Most of the people buying the cheaper versions haven't developed a D chord, much less a critical ear.

Nearly as important, we're living more and more in a hive society. You really can't turn a tube amp up to the point where it produces pleasing distortion any more, and that even goes for the 1-5W amps as well. You'll have neighbors pounding on the door (or at the very least, parents pounding on the door telling you to turn it down or the baby will wake up). That's not JUST at home in the bedroom (where most of these amps wind up anyway), but includes gigs. Most of the clubs these days have sound guys and house sound systems (because most bands don't), and they expect you to keep stage volume down and they intend that they're going to either mike or DI your amp, even if they're going to run the PA at skull-splitting levels. If you can run one of these little funky Spiders or Mustangs' preamps out to a mixer, you'll be very surprised at how good they sound.

So anyway, that's why. For better or worse.