#1
This landed in the mail earlier this afternoon. Didn't get too terribly much time to play with it before I had to go to class, but I'll write a quick first impression review, and update later.



First Impressions:

First, I ran it through an Orange 412 loaded with a quad of V30s. Usually have an attenuator between head/cab, but 1) I didn't have time to set it up and 2) it's not rated for the full 180w output power of the Herbert and I've already blown the attenuator once (still not in 100% working condition actually).

Guitars used so far were two Gibson Historic Les Pauls, a G0 and R0, loaded with Sheptone Tributes and Throbak SLE-101+s respectively. Will be trying it with a single coil Suhr Classic T later when I get home.

No pedals have been used with it yet, though I'll be testing out the loop(s, actually has 3) for sure later. Been having really shit luck with FX loops lately though, so who knows if it will work.

Alright, now on to the sound. First thing I thought when I plugged it in was that it was a bit noisy. Not sure if that's due to tubes, or just the nature of the circuit. I remember the Hagen I owned being quieter, as much as I grew to dislike that amp. I'll be swapping in some NOS Telefunkens later, but it has a **** ton of gain, so who knows if that will solve that issue.

Second impression was that it's got ridiculous amounts of bass. Had to turn the bass knob down to ~9 o clock on channel 3, and the depth knob down to around the same to get rid of the massive low end. However, it's fairly tight and never sounds flubby, just overly boomy. Fairly subdued high end, though it's not exactly dark. More that the fizz has been dialed out. Definitely like that aspect better than the Hagen. Mids are slightly scooped, but the mid controls on each channel have a decent amount of range to compensate.

Channel 1 is the clean channel; I didn't spend too much time with it as a result. It's fairly dark, like every other Diezel I've played/owned. Lots of bass like the rest of the amp. I guess it's a bit Hiwatt-ish in overall tonality, with a lot of headroom and no spiky treble. Pretty compressed though, which makes it decidedly modern in nature. Overall it's a bit bland, but nothing unworkable. I just prefer more treble character for my cleans.

Channel 2 is mid gain, though it has the potential to get relatively heavy and compressed. +/- switch to select the gain range. Don't really like -, as it gets too dark for my tastes. + is really nice though. Certainly much better than channel 2 on the VH4/Hagen. More balanced, and definitely crunchier in the high end with less compression in the lows. Still fairly modern, but has a nice mid range content that's very fat. I'd probably use it has a mid-high gain rhythm in conjunction with channel 3 set up for a lead sound.

Channel 3 is very high gain, with lots of compression. Like I said previously, extended treble has been dialed out to keep it from getting fizzy. Not quite as tight as the VH4, or Hagen, but the response is much more pleasing with less wool around the edges than the Hagen, and a bit more forgiving than the VH4. Wish it had a bit more high mids without having to crank the mid control up, as it gets a bit harsh that way.

Has a global mid cut, which is a bit tricky to dial in. Putting the intensity past ~10-11 o clock is just way too much cut, and it starts to sound awful. Not terribly useful on channel 1 and 2, but it can balance out the harshness of the 3rd channel with the mids cranked up, without losing the cut with careful dialing in.
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Last edited by mmolteratx at Apr 24, 2013,
#3
Oh yea, forgot to mention. Output tubes are one pair of 6550s, one pair of EL34s and one pair of KT77s. Able to mix and match pairs, as each pair has an individual bias control. Not that I hear a huge difference anyways.
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#4
excellent

nice review too
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#6
Epic new amp day d00d

Is it new?
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#7
Quote by ragingkitty

Is it new?


lol no

Would never buy an amp this expensive new. Bought it for $2400 on Rig-Talk, which is $2k less than the new price.

Snapped some more pics while it was apart. Solved the noise issue with the hum balance control and some new tubes.



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#8
Dude you have a serious problem, and should probably seek professional help.


I am a pro, send me your amps and I will help
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#10
What a score there!

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#11
**** you matt.


**** you.

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#12
Nice pictures as always. What type of camera?

glad you got the hum out.

Any chance of clips?

HNAD !!
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#13
Quote by R45VT
Nice pictures as always. What type of camera?

glad you got the hum out.

Any chance of clips?

HNAD !!


Just a D5000 with the cheap lens it comes with. Other lenses are packed up somewhere, though the stock one is surprisingly great. Maybe clips this weekend. TBH, I'm on the fence about keeping it, so I'll probably give it a week and decide then.
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#15
Quote by Ippon
Congrats!

So far, Herbert or OD100 SE?



SE+, no doubt. Better clean channel and mid gain tones by far, and the high gain tones are more to preference. Effects loops on both are about on par. MIDI capability on the Herbert is so much better though, which is what I really love about Diezels. Just plug in one of my MIDI controllers, program in a couple minutes and it's good to go. Can switch channels, FX loop, master and mid cut all via one switch, and the only other amps I know of with equivalent functionality is the Rhodes stuff, which actually have an even deeper MIDI interface. The compression all over the Herbert is really bugging me though.
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#16
I give 2 weeks.
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#17
Quote by mmolteratx
SE+, no doubt. Better clean channel and mid gain tones by far, and the high gain tones are more to preference. Effects loops on both are about on par. MIDI capability on the Herbert is so much better though, which is what I really love about Diezels. Just plug in one of my MIDI controllers, program in a couple minutes and it's good to go. Can switch channels, FX loop, master and mid cut all via one switch, and the only other amps I know of with equivalent functionality is the Rhodes stuff, which actually have an even deeper MIDI interface. The compression all over the Herbert is really bugging me though.

Agreed! Still on the look-out for an OD100 SE Plus. For some reason, I thought you preferred the non-Plus.

Glad I saved you $200 with the Herbert, though. What you've discovered so far have been the reasons I prefer the VH4 to the Herbert (Derek will disagree), the Hagen, and the DMoll.

Also, you'll discover (maybe) that your practice settings will require tweaks/changes when in a band setting. This is why I prefer the VH4 and Twin Jet over the Herbert.
#18
Quote by Eppicurt
I give 2 weeks.


Meh. I'll be surprised if it lasts that long.

Quote by Ippon
Agreed! Still on the look-out for an OD100 SE Plus. For some reason, I thought you preferred the non-Plus.

Glad I saved you $200 with the Herbert, though. What you've discovered so far have been the reasons I prefer the VH4 to the Herbert (Derek will disagree), the Hagen, and the DMoll.

Also, you'll discover (maybe) that your practice settings will require tweaks/changes when in a band setting. This is why I prefer the VH4 and Twin Jet over the Herbert.


Nah, I've always preferred the +. The original SE isn't quite as fat sounding, though I do like the original Standard and Classic better than the + versions since they're geared towards different tones. And yea, I prefer the VH4 (from what I've played) to any of the other Diezel models. I can definitely see the Herbert not cutting through. I'll be trying it out at a jam this weekend along with the 100B. I almost bought it last week at $2600, glad I didn't.
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#19
Unless you are driving the power amp into distortion tube type seems to have a minimal effect and can easily be swamped by the effect of the preamp. I should imagine that not even I would be driving a Herby into power amp distortion.

HNAD

The real question. The Brigand turned your Hagen into a coffee table - did you need a heavier coffee table?

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#20
Quote by mmolteratx
Meh. I'll be surprised if it lasts that long.


Nah, I've always preferred the +. The original SE isn't quite as fat sounding, though I do like the original Standard and Classic better than the + versions since they're geared towards different tones. And yea, I prefer the VH4 (from what I've played) to any of the other Diezel models. I can definitely see the Herbert not cutting through. I'll be trying it out at a jam this weekend along with the 100B. I almost bought it last week at $2600, glad I didn't.

The Bogners have no trouble being heard/cutting through - Twin Jet, XTC 101B, and even the MIC Alchemist, with downtuned or 7 strings, and a bassist who loves upper Mids (Traynor, Markbass, etc.).

I bet the 100B will be the same. You need to do some Alice in Chains.
#21
That was my issue with the Herbert. HUGE sound, but way too much lowend and low mids. The only way I could get it to sound how I liked, was cranking the mids and then using the cut to tame the low mid. Unfortunately, it also ended up affecting the high mid and just didn't have the sizzle I'm used to. To be fair, the Herbert was my dream amp for years, so in my mind, I'm sure I hyped it up quite a bit, but there's a reason its 180w. I needs the sheer power to cut through, as it lacks in the mids.
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#22
Quote by MatrixClaw
That was my issue with the Herbert. HUGE sound, but way too much lowend and low mids. The only way I could get it to sound how I liked, was cranking the mids and then using the cut to tame the low mid. Unfortunately, it also ended up affecting the high mid and just didn't have the sizzle I'm used to. To be fair, the Herbert was my dream amp for years, so in my mind, I'm sure I hyped it up quite a bit, but there's a reason its 180w. I needs the sheer power to cut through, as it lacks in the mids.


Yea, that's another thing. The high end is dialed in pretty well to avoid fizz, but it doesn't have that nice sizzle/aggression either. I'm starting to see why you like the 5150/6505 so much, as really nothing I've tried that costs 2-4x as much is any better, or the difference isn't really worth paying for, unless you need the extra features.
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#23
Quote by mmolteratx
Yea, that's another thing. The high end is dialed in pretty well to avoid fizz, but it doesn't have that nice sizzle/aggression either. I'm starting to see why you like the 5150/6505 so much, as really nothing I've tried that costs 2-4x as much is any better, or the difference isn't really worth paying for, unless you need the extra features.


Yep, my feelings exactly
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#24
A man such as yourself could fine tune the response to what you like though - if you could be bothered. The way you're going through amps I'd think that would be the way to go. Find something close to what you want and then pimp your ride until it's what you actually want.
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#25
Cath, you read my mind. I've been thinking about grabbing a 6505 since it's closest to what I want, and cheap, then modding it for less noise, less fizz and a tighter low end. Then replace the effects loop with something that isn't shit and maybe swap the OT for an O'Netics. Only downside is the clean channel blows.
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#26
Perhaps mod a JSX for more gain instead? Either that or just run two amps, say a 6505 and a Twin.
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Last edited by Cathbard at Apr 25, 2013,
#27
thats just silly. 6 preamp tubes 6 power amp tubes. jesus. jesus.
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#28
Bass players have had to deal with that for decades. The king of bass amps, the Ampeg SVT, has 5 preamp and 6 power tubes.
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#29
What you really need is a Splawn Nitro.


....and Derek, wouldn't the Herbie be perfect for a studio? It's not like you guys are seriously going to take a Diezel Herbert out twice a week gigging.

Plus, Cath - Matt can afford to do whatever he wants. Part of it, I think, for him is just putting a notch in his guitar strap if you will that he once 'had' that amp
#30
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
1. What you really need is a Splawn Nitro.

2. ....and Derek, wouldn't the Herbie be perfect for a studio? It's not like you guys are seriously going to take a Diezel Herbert out twice a week gigging.

3. Plus, Cath - Matt can afford to do whatever he wants. Part of it, I think, for him is just putting a notch in his guitar strap if you will that he once 'had' that amp

1, 2, and 3 +311
#31
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
What you really need is a Splawn Nitro.


....and Derek, wouldn't the Herbie be perfect for a studio? It's not like you guys are seriously going to take a Diezel Herbert out twice a week gigging.

Plus, Cath - Matt can afford to do whatever he wants. Part of it, I think, for him is just putting a notch in his guitar strap if you will that he once 'had' that amp


I dunno. I can't exactly see it working any better in the studio. The VH4 on the other hand, I see being the perfect studio amp, and a I know a ton of studios have one on hand as their do everything amp. Maybe if you dropped a high pass filter over 200Hz or so on the guitar tracks, you could get it to sit in a mix better.

And yea, just owning a bunch of different amps is part of the fun.
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#32
I still say just mod a 6505 and AB it with a Fender Twin. It's not too big to gig with, you just sit the Twin on top of a 4x12 and the 6505 head on top of that. It takes up no more floor space than the 4x12. I am essentially using that arrangement at the moment - a 2x12 combo on top of a 4x12. You'd just have a head on top of that - no biggy.
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#33
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
...and Derek, wouldn't the Herbie be perfect for a studio?

How so?
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#35
Did a quick topology trace, and they're very, very similar. Herbie looks to have a number of different values that result in a lot more bass being let through the preamp. Channel 1's are very similar, channel 2 on the Herbie is very close to channel 3 of the VH4, but with lots of bass, and channel 3 is basically channel 4, but again with ass tons of bass.
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#36
Quote by mmolteratx
Did a quick topology trace, and they're very, very similar. Herbie looks to have a number of different values that result in a lot more bass being let through the preamp. Channel 1's are very similar, channel 2 on the Herbie is very close to channel 3 of the VH4, but with lots of bass, and channel 3 is basically channel 4, but again with ass tons of bass.

Interesting! So, you can make the Herbie sound similar to the VH4? The extra power would have a negligible impact?
#37
I could, if I were to make a number of component swaps. The extra power would keep it tighter longer, though you really never have the ability to turn a VH4 up enough to the point where it gets saggy and crappy anyways.
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#39
The one thing I found kind of disappointing with the Herbert is that it's either speaking level volumes and is a fizzy mess, or is concert volume and blasts your face off. I guess it's to be expected with such a big power section, but still... It's not like I'm going to take my $4000 amp over to a friend's house to jam or tryout for a band - Forget taking it to a show, someone sees the Diezel name and I leave it unattended for 2 seconds and that thing's gone. You better believe that thing's never leaving my house, and sometimes I just can't play it at concert volumes
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#40
^ that's all I was saying. It didn't seem like the type of amp you casually take over to a buddie's place or take to a gig. I assumed it's home was in the studio - where the lack of mids (or whatever) are not as important. I don't own a studio though and I don't gig

Some back and forth in that thread on RT


----------------------
diezel herbert sounds like cd masterleads woith a tiny delay and slight noise gate.........perfect for pop to shred

----------------------
I find Herbert to be pretty squishy in the upper mids, bad for rhythm IMO but probably great for lead, how do some of the other newer Diezels compare?

--------------------------------
"Bad for rhythm" - really? Have you played Channel 2+ with a bit of mid-cut? It's the greatest metal rhythm tone I've heard!