jkielq91
Tab Contributor
Join date: Sep 2007
5,010 IQ
#1
Hey folks,

Lately I have been trying to learn a lot about mixing. But I do not have monitors. What I have been doing is using a mixture of headphones and 2 sets of speakers and comparing my mix to other pro mixed tracks in a similar style.

I think I am doing ok through this and for the few months of experience I have I think my mixes are quite good. But they could be better.

I know mixing would be a lot easier if I have proper studio monitors to use (along with my other speakers and headphones).

But I'm not sure my situation is appropriate for them and I dont want to spend money on some only to learn that I have wadted my money.

Here is a description of my situation:

-I do my mixing at home in a non acoustically treated room.

-The room I used is very small.

-It will be impossible to not have my monitors close to a wall (yes, the room is that small).

-And difficult not to have them near to the rooms corners.


So, what are every ones thoughts on this?


What do you guys do?


Can you suggest any alternative methods?


Thanks =)
lockwolf
Recording's AdBot/Dick
Join date: Jun 2007
1,422 IQ
#2
Personally, I love my monitors & I think its a great investment in gear even in an untreated room. Right now, I'm setup in my living room which helps kill a lot of the sound but even when I've taken them & used them in untreated rooms with natural verb (Terrible environment to mix in no matter what monitors you have), I've been able to mix accurate enough to where I only had a few little fixes here and there to take care of.

Also, go used if you can & check eBay to keep the cost low. Good monitors start at around the $300ish range and going used usually cuts the price down at least a third. Hell, if you got the cash right now, you could pick up a pair of KRK Rokit 5s for $160 + shipping which is almost half off a new pair (and its very easy to unpop the center of the speaker).
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chatterbox272
Registered User
Join date: May 2011
1,237 IQ
#3
What you're doing is called referencing and even with monitors it is still a very good thing to be doing. I don't think monitors are as essential to a home studio as some would believe. This is pretty much a summary of how I feel about monitors, so my personal approach is to check out my mixes on my bass amp, clock radio, car speakers, computer speakers, old dj headphones, gaming headphones, and studio headphones. By the time I've gone through everything I've pretty much covered every frequency band there is a few times over in systems that emphasize those frequencies.
jkielq91
Tab Contributor
Join date: Sep 2007
5,010 IQ
#4
Quote by chatterbox272
What you're doing is called referencing and even with monitors it is still a very good thing to be doing. I don't think monitors are as essential to a home studio as some would believe. This is pretty much a summary of how I feel about monitors, so my personal approach is to check out my mixes on my bass amp, clock radio, car speakers, computer speakers, old dj headphones, gaming headphones, and studio headphones. By the time I've gone through everything I've pretty much covered every frequency band there is a few times over in systems that emphasize those frequencies.


Yes I am very familiar with referencing. Next I will hook my laptop up to my tv for reference. My tv has good speakers, its my favourite thing in my home for listening to music on.

Interestingly my computer speakers are what my rough or unmixed tracks sound best through.

I will check out your link.
jkielq91
Tab Contributor
Join date: Sep 2007
5,010 IQ
#6
Another question:

So far for recording I have:

An audio interface
A LD condensor microphone
Ableton (lite version )
Amplitube Custom Shop

Where do you think I should invest my money next for best effect?

Ableton 9 in full
Studio Monitors

I also have my eye on a PRS guitar which I am saving for.
TwoPlusTwo
Tab Contributor
Join date: Feb 2013
168 IQ
#7
Why not get some awesome studio headphones?
If you already do, then I guess do what you want.
crazysam23_Atax
Feuergesicht
Join date: Oct 2009
5,710 IQ
#8
Quote by jkielq91

Studio Monitors

This and Reaper.

Reaper is better for guitar based music.
jkielq91
Tab Contributor
Join date: Sep 2007
5,010 IQ
#9
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
This and Reaper.

Reaper is better for guitar based music.


My musics not all purely guitar based. I'd say song based would be the best way of putting it. Though big riffs and guitar solo's do come in to it.


I have thought about getting headphones that are good for mixing but I dont like wearing headphones all the time. I never use them when I'm not doing music production.
GaryBillington
Last of a Dyin' Breed
Join date: Nov 2001
1,309 IQ
#10
Quote by jkielq91
I have thought about getting headphones that are good for mixing but I dont like wearing headphones all the time. I never use them when I'm not doing music production.

Seems to me you're answering your own question here.

Look at it this way - the rest of your setup is quite good but you've identified an area for improvement. If you have the budget for it, why wouldn't you buy them?
.
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jkielq91
Tab Contributor
Join date: Sep 2007
5,010 IQ
#11
Quote by GaryBillington
Seems to me you're answering your own question here.

Look at it this way - the rest of your setup is quite good but you've identified an area for improvement. If you have the budget for it, why wouldn't you buy them?

Fair point.

But I want to be confident that they will improve my situation and be worth it.
chatterbox272
Registered User
Join date: May 2011
1,237 IQ
#12
You haven't got a full DAW? I'd get that first. I highly recommend trying a demo of every DAW you can before making a purchase, that way you know that you're getting the DAW that best suits your workflow (and trying demos costs nothing but a little time). I found that mixing mostly on a set of average computer speakers, then just doing a check on some studio headphones works well (I do this, but afterwards I do a check on every set of speakers I have).
axemanchris
Awwww.... NOW what?!
Join date: Aug 2006
2,471 IQ
#13
I'm going to go in an entirely different direction here. It ain't sexy, but one of the best investments I ever made to improve my mixes was to spend about $200 and make some DIY acoustic treatment for my space.

Before we moved, the other room I was in was already mostly okay (heh.... never would have imagined....) In the new house, I couldn't mix a G-Damned thing to save my soul. As soon as I treated the room.... right back to making decent mixes. I could show you on a frequency response graph that I did for the room, both before and after, but trust me, the difference was remarkable, and the results speak for themselves.

Now, how small is your room? My control room is 8' x 9'6". My monitors (yes, I believe they are a very worthy investment, but my experience above suggests that they cannot rise above a bad room in the first place) are about 8" away from the wall, and about 2' in from each corner. I put acoustic panels between the monitor and the wall to absorb anything that might get reflected back, though.



CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
jkielq91
Tab Contributor
Join date: Sep 2007
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#14
Quote by axemanchris
I'm going to go in an entirely different direction here. It ain't sexy, but one of the best investments I ever made to improve my mixes was to spend about $200 and make some DIY acoustic treatment for my space.

Before we moved, the other room I was in was already mostly okay (heh.... never would have imagined....) In the new house, I couldn't mix a G-Damned thing to save my soul. As soon as I treated the room.... right back to making decent mixes. I could show you on a frequency response graph that I did for the room, both before and after, but trust me, the difference was remarkable, and the results speak for themselves.

Now, how small is your room? My control room is 8' x 9'6". My monitors (yes, I believe they are a very worthy investment, but my experience above suggests that they cannot rise above a bad room in the first place) are about 8" away from the wall, and about 2' in from each corner. I put acoustic panels between the monitor and the wall to absorb anything that might get reflected back, though.



CT


Good response.

I do intend to do this to a room in future, but cant really do it to the room I am in.


I'll describe my room to you. The biggest issue is it is an L shape. Each end of the L is slightly larger than the width of a door (though only one has a door on it, the other is set up with shelves). The room has other furniture in it to, which cant be moved to another room. When I record vocals with my mic on the stand I have about a meter square to move around in.

But when I have a place of my own and a larger room I will do what you suggested.


If I was to get headphones to mix on, what would you recommend? Under £200.
T4D
30 guitars and counting..
Join date: Apr 2005
368 IQ
#15
Quote by jkielq91
Another question:
I also have my eye on a PRS guitar which I am saving for.


GET THE PRS!!

There a super guitar I have a CE 24 one of the best guitars I have ever owned and I'm a old dude with too many guitars !!

but Seriously Get the monitors recordings best investment after your Recording chain is done. ( -> interface - computer - DAW - Guitar tone )

but there is a odd things about them ,..there TOO GOOD !!.

I have a pair of Yamaha ( white cone things forgot the name )

you will blow your mind when you first setup them up and use them WOW

and that is the problem,.. you do a mix sounds great far better then what you were using!! but next morning on the way to work the car stereo ,..sounds average .. at work with headphones maybe not like you remember ?


YES logical having the best reference when mixing is most important there's no other option really... BUT it's get confusing when you get very picky and move to other sound devices ( I have no idea how it sound using Apple headphones should I even try ? )

( This was a light hearted post )
Last edited by T4D at May 2, 2013,
jkielq91
Tab Contributor
Join date: Sep 2007
5,010 IQ
#16
Quote by T4D
GET THE PRS!!

There a super guitar I have a CE 24 one of the best guitars I have ever owned and I'm a old dude with too many guitars !!

but Seriously Get the monitors recordings best investment after your Recording chain is done. ( -> interface - computer - DAW - Guitar tone )

but there is a odd things about them ,..there TOO GOOD !!.

I have a pair of Yamaha ( white cone things forgot the name )

you will blow your mind when you first setup them up and use them WOW

and that is the problem,.. you do a mix sounds great far better then what you were using!! but next morning on the way to work the car stereo ,..sounds average .. at work with headphones maybe not like you remember ?


YES logical having the best reference when mixing is most important there's no other option really... BUT it's get confusing when you get very picky and move to other sound devices ( I have no idea how it sound using Apple headphones should I even try ? )

( This was a light hearted post )


good response. Thanks.
Arch1119
UG's Wii
Join date: Jul 2007
348 IQ
#17
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
This and Reaper.

Reaper is better for guitar based music.



Please, explain this to me considering that Pro Tools makes the Eleven rack, which is basically an AxeFX with 100% Pro Tools integration of not only what is on the Eleven rack DSP, but also your RTAS and AXX plugins. How is Reaper suited for guitar tracks? If its only good for guitar oriented music, then why even use it? It sure as hell isn't pleasant to use for serious applications anyways so the only advantage is the free.99 factor.
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jof1029
GO HOKIES!
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#18
^ he meant Reaper is better for guitar based music than the DAW the guy is using, ableton lite.

also, Reaper is a perfectly acceptable DAW. just because you find it unpleasant to work with, doesnt mean that other people agree with you.
chatterbox272
Registered User
Join date: May 2011
1,237 IQ
#19
Quote by Arch1119
Please, explain this to me considering that Pro Tools makes the Eleven rack, which is basically an AxeFX with 100% Pro Tools integration of not only what is on the Eleven rack DSP, but also your RTAS and AXX plugins. How is Reaper suited for guitar tracks? If its only good for guitar oriented music, then why even use it? It sure as hell isn't pleasant to use for serious applications anyways so the only advantage is the free.99 factor.

Has anyone told you you're a dick? Where was PT even mentioned here? and different workflows work for different people, PT isn't the only DAW capable of being used seriously.
T4D
30 guitars and counting..
Join date: Apr 2005
368 IQ
#20
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Reaper is better for guitar based music.


Really ??

Quote by Arch1119
Please, explain this to me considering that Pro Tools makes the Eleven rack, which is basically an AxeFX with 100% Pro Tools integration of not only what is on the Eleven rack DSP, but also your RTAS and AXX plugins. How is Reaper suited for guitar tracks? If its only good for guitar oriented music, then why even use it? It sure as hell isn't pleasant to use for serious applications anyways so the only advantage is the free.99 factor.


is relation to "guitar based music" yeah But PT also is missing some very cool VST plugins
on the subject of preferred "guitar based music" ,..Live or Cubase or Sonar comes to my mind But you have to think how much "guitar based music" has been produced with PT..

big subject not really related here. because no one asked if he should change DAW's only put it out there if he should upgrade.. sorry Maybe you should IF you feel something missing in your current workflow. if not ROCK On

Quote by jof1029
^ he meant Reaper is better for guitar based music than the DAW the guy is using, ableton lite.

also, Reaper is a perfectly acceptable DAW. just because you find it unpleasant to work with, doesnt mean that other people agree with you.


between which lines was that ?
and now we have to have interpretation session after reading each post ?

my "translation, interoperation" of Arch1119 post was more about the Reaper being preferred for "Guitar based music" and the fact that statement is abit .
and not a protools flag waving session.


Quote by chatterbox272
Has anyone told you you're a dick? Where was PT even mentioned here? and different workflows work for different people, PT isn't the only DAW capable of being used seriously.


This is a funny read ..

@chatterbox272 are you seriously picking out Arch1119 for a crazy post ?
Where did Reaper come from and why is it Better for "guitar based music" then LIVE ?
Last edited by T4D at May 5, 2013,
chatterbox272
Registered User
Join date: May 2011
1,237 IQ
#21
Quote by T4D
This is a funny read ..

@chatterbox272 are you seriously picking out Arch1119 for a crazy post ?
Where did Reaper come from and why is it Better for "guitar based music" then LIVE ?

Guitar based music is a terrible, terrible term. Generally, Ableton Live is more suited to sequencing for DJs and electronic music (not exclusively, but it is geared for those uses) where as REAPER, Cubase, etc. are more suited to traditional recording. REAPER would have been selected specifically because of the same reason REAPER is always recommended, it's cheap. If he's working with a budget where a set of basic studio monitors are in there, then the options with pro tools are monitors OR pro tools, whereas there is a 99% chance that TS would be able to afford reaper AND monitors. Also, if you look at the posts he made around the same time in a whole bunch of threads you'd see he's just been going on about how everyone should spend as much money as they have access to on recording if they even want to consider it.
T4D
30 guitars and counting..
Join date: Apr 2005
368 IQ
#22
Agree Guitar based music is a terrible, terrible term
not matter if your trying to be positive with that label, in the end it's just negative.

labelling any Artist tool is just silly,. Reason is far more in the "electronic music" area then any other DAW's IMO, but I done a album in Reason, so I know you can still do Metal in Reason. and you can't install VST plugins to Reason.

as for Live, once you install a VST amp sim plugin what's missing from your "Guitar based music" toolset ? ,. seriously what is missing ?


the question was,.. should I upgrade my live he did not say change to another DAW.

what is the difference in a "Get reaper" comment & a "Get Protools or Studio one" comment ?

Studio one is extremely good value too and better then Reaper ?

are we just yelling out what we use ever time a subject comes up but protool users have to shut up ?
Last edited by T4D at May 5, 2013,
chatterbox272
Registered User
Join date: May 2011
1,237 IQ
#23
I'm not saying it's not possible, nor that it isn't ideal for some people. I do believe though that Ableton Live is targeted at electronic music production, and so for the majority it is not the best option.

The difference between the "get reaper" and "get pro tools" statements is one was (supposed to be) a recommendation saying that typically REAPER is more suited to traditional recording than Ableton Live. The other was "How is REAPER more suited than Ableton because Pro Tools has Eleven Rack. Also REAPER is only good because the trial doesn't end."

If he'd said that he personally prefers Pro Tools to REAPER and would recommend the TS check that out I'd probably have left it alone, but Pro Tools having Eleven Rack has absolutely no bearing on whether REAPER is more suited to traditional recording than Ableton.

Also one other difference is that for the budget it would appear TS has, they couldn't get both Pro Tools + Monitors under budget, whereas REAPER + Monitors should be fairly doable.

I don't deny that S1 is good, there's some people here who really like it. I also don't deny that pro tools is good, it had to do something right to get where it is and stay there. The reason there tends to be a dislike of Pro Tools here (or that's the way it looks anyway) is that most of the people saying to use Pro Tools add stupid comments that say it's the only DAW that can be used seriously, which is bull. If someone told me REAPER was the only serious DAW I'd also do the same thing.
T4D
30 guitars and counting..
Join date: Apr 2005
368 IQ
#24
Hey all cool

I just found the Reaper comment just as silly as the Protools comment ( I uses Protools 10 ) specially when he posted he uses live and just wanted to know if he should upgrade.

Sorry I back well away from comparing any DAW software, personally preference and personally workflow has far more to do the opinions YELLED OUT and augured over then real working knowledge of both packages.

Most people opinions of other packages comes from the marketing they read which adds even more BS to the pile.
Last edited by T4D at May 5, 2013,
InfantofPrague
Banned
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180 IQ
#25
Hi! If you end up buying monitors there is a brief guide here . In general, anything less than $100 would be considered a multimedia speaker. IMO good monitors are worth the investment.
axemanchris
Awwww.... NOW what?!
Join date: Aug 2006
2,471 IQ
#26
I'd personally be wary of any monitor less than about $200/ea.

But that said, if room treatment is impossible, etc., I'm not so sure how helpful even really excellent monitors would be.

In a good room, my monitors are very useful. In a bad room, I can't make a mix to save my life with the same ones.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
jkielq91
Tab Contributor
Join date: Sep 2007
5,010 IQ
#27
Bit of delay in getting back here. But thanks for the responses.

Can any one answer these questions about reaper for me?

What is the maximum number of effects, plugins and tracks you can use in a project?

Does it have any things like virtual drums like Impulse in Ableton?

-

What are people thoughts on this:

http://www.andertons.co.uk/daw-recording-software/pid18722/cid717/cakewalk-sonar-home-studio-7xl.asp

Cakewalk Sonar Home Studio.

-Get creative with 64 audio tracks and unlimited MIDI tracks
-Track and project templates do the set-up for you so you're making music fast
-Play and record MIDI parts in perfect time using Input Quantize
-Record your whole band at once using multi-input audio interfaces at up to 24-bit/192 kHz quality
-Browse over 1 GB of loop and instrument content and preview audio and MIDI loops in time and key with your song to create backing tracks
-Create instrument parts using the DropZone sampler and genuine Roland sounds: drums, bass, guitar, keys, orchestral, and more
-Expand your studio with VST, DX, and ReWire synths, effects, and applications including Reason

£110
Last edited by jkielq91 at May 12, 2013,