SmilesAndGimps
Registered User
Join date: Jul 2013
71 IQ
#1
I'm wondering the usage of these more complex chords, like 9ths, 11ths, b13, and so on. To me, they just sound like murkier dominant 7ths. Is there specific theory behind them, I mean like how a dom7 builds tension and resolves a fifth lower? Or are they just passing tones as the melody dictates? I guess I need to study more classical music! Thanks guys
The devil tuned this guitar, that's why it sounds like hell.

Check out my blog at TheDevilTunedThisGuitar.BlogSpot.com
griffRG7321
Theory buff
Join date: Sep 2007
999 IQ
#2
You'll rarely find a true 11th or 13th in baroque/classical music. Those notes are used as harmonic/melodic decoration in the form of suspensions, appoggiaturas, passing notes etc.

Study counterpoint and learn to play some basic Mozart minuets on piano or something.
HotspurJr
Registered User
Join date: Jul 2011
191 IQ
#3
Over time, your ear will develop and you'll get better at hearing the specific sound of each given type of chord. Just like a dom7 chord doesn't just sound like a major chord with an extra note, it sort of has it's own thing going, the same goes for these other chords.

I'm pretty comfortable with 9th and m9 chords, but feel the way you do about some others. Don't try to learn them all at once - learn a couple, work with them, and only once you've internalized the sound and they start to feel intuitive add some other ones.
vIsIbleNoIsE
The Asian-Viking Paradox
Join date: Feb 2006
1,542 IQ
#4
they make a lot more sense to the ear when they are working with a melody. try treating the extensions like suggestions for the melody.
Quote by archerygenious
Jesus Christ since when is the Pit a ****ing courtroom...

Like melodic, black, death, symphonic, and/or avant-garde metal? Want to collaborate? Message me!
Fourfourforever
Registered User
Join date: Dec 2011
541 IQ
#5
yea those are all fun little chords it depends what you like the sound of though and what you want to sound like, and what notes you want to run through to use those chords to support it i mean for me 7th chords and dom7 chords just sound to ****ing good not to use ever they just have that bite to them plain old triads do not have.
crazysam23_Atax
Feuergesicht
Join date: Oct 2009
5,710 IQ
#6
I think 9th, 11ths, & 13ths are mainly used in Jazz. I can't think of any classical examples of a use of 11th or 13ths.
Sickz
Jazz Musician
Join date: Mar 2010
1,594 IQ
#8
If you are looking into more complex chords like that i would suggest looking into jazz and fusion music, there are tons of obscure chords in there which will take you ages to figure out how they work with eachother.

There is theory behind it. I am not good enough to explain it all in one simple message here, nor do i have the time for it, but i recommend a book called "The jazz theory book" by Mark Levine. THE BEST theory book i own, and probably the only one i will need for the rest of my life.
Fusion and jazz musician, a fan of most music.

Quote by Guthrie Govan
“If you steal from one person it's theft, and if you steal from lots of people it's research”


Quote by Chick Corea
"Only play what you hear. If you don't hear anything, don't play anything."
Tim-Blink182
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2009
232 IQ
#9
Yeah look into Jazz as had been said, and you'll get a better understanding. Classical won't help with this.

Also i'm assuming when you play a dominant 9th on the guitar, you'll play 1 3 5 b7 9? Usually a few notes are omitted, so that you'll end up playing 1 3 b7 9, or maybe even just 3 b7 9.
SmilesAndGimps
Registered User
Join date: Jul 2013
71 IQ
#10
Thanks y'all, jazz is where it's at, no doubt. It's high time I buy a good theory book anyway and stop trying to figure it out on my own!

Quote by Tim-Blink182
Also i'm assuming when you play a dominant 9th on the guitar, you'll play 1 3 5 b7 9? Usually a few notes are omitted, so that you'll end up playing 1 3 b7 9, or maybe even just 3 b7 9.


I've been delving into keyboard a bit more while learning theory, since as you said a lot of notes end up dropped on guitar for obvious reasons (six string guitar cannot play a seven note 13 chord, haha). On guitar I've always used those extensions as additions usually dropping seventh, but lately I've been trying to break the norm.
The devil tuned this guitar, that's why it sounds like hell.

Check out my blog at TheDevilTunedThisGuitar.BlogSpot.com
crazysam23_Atax
Feuergesicht
Join date: Oct 2009
5,710 IQ
#11
Quote by Tim-Blink182
Yeah look into Jazz as had been said, and you'll get a better understanding. Classical won't help with this.

Also i'm assuming when you play a dominant 9th on the guitar, you'll play 1 3 5 b7 9? Usually a few notes are omitted, so that you'll end up playing 1 3 b7 9, or maybe even just 3 b7 9.

If you're playing solo (as opposed to with a band or another guitarist or a bassist or whatever), playing 3 b7 9 doesn't really work. What that ends up as is 1 b5 7, because assuming that the original 3 is in the bass/is the root, then it is actually the 1. Thus, the other notes move down 2 intervals accordingly.

Of course, if you're playing with a band, then the bass player typically would play the 1, and the guitar is free to just play the 3 b7 9.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Aug 12, 2013,
Tim-Blink182
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2009
232 IQ
#12
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
If you're playing solo (as opposed to with a band or another guitarist or a bassist or whatever), playing 3 b7 9 doesn't really work. What that ends up as is 1 b5 7, because assuming that the original 3 is in the bass/is the root, then it is actually the 1. Thus, the other notes move down 2 intervals accordingly.

Of course, if you're playing with a band, then the bass player typically would play the 1, and the guitar is free to just play the 3 b7 9.

I was talking about in a band setting, hope I didn't confuse anyone! Because yeah if you're playing solo then of course you have to incorporate the root note in.
SmilesAndGimps
Registered User
Join date: Jul 2013
71 IQ
#13
Thanks again for the direction, I dug out an old jazz theory book I forgot I had. It's super basic, but just having some progressions with those extended chords in them to play through is already helping me to hear the differences! Well done MT forum, well done.
The devil tuned this guitar, that's why it sounds like hell.

Check out my blog at TheDevilTunedThisGuitar.BlogSpot.com