playgu
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Join date: Sep 2013
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#1
Ive been playing for a month now, multiple hours everyday. I learn easy songs in like half of a day. Everlong for example and joker and the thief. My question is if its a bad idea to learn a hard song. I really want to learn to play Ozzys Hellraiser. Can it be bad for my developement to go for such a song.
Would be kind if you who have gone through the newbie period could come up with some advice.
Thanks
playgu
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122 IQ
#2
dont know if im in the correct forum btw. Maybe It should be in general. If so im sorry
The Dimery
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#3
I personally wouldn't be learning any songs a month in, I would get your major/minor/barre/maj7/min7/5th/7th chords down first while learning the notes on the fretboard, learning and applying scales, get a few months of technical exercises down, various chromatic, ladder, legato exercises. And then I would move on to songs.
But that's just me.
playgu
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Join date: Sep 2013
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#4
Well that makes a whole lot of sense man Would probably be the best for progress to do it that way. The ellure of playing like a beast is just so big that I was drawn towards trying to play some awesome soloes. Ill try to keep on the disciplined track and do it that way though i think.
D_M_I
Omniscient
Join date: Aug 2011
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#5
Do whatever keeps you interested.

Then decide what you want to be capable of doing and work towards that. Right now is the time to get a solid base like The Dimery said. But if it makes it so you don't enjoy it, do something else. That is where most people kind of give up, because they don't enjoy the work part of learning guitar.

If you've truly learned a couple songs already after a month (your idea of learned a song is probably different than mine right now) I think you'll do well no matter what road you take.

As long as you are having fun and getting better, you're doing it right.
playgu
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Join date: Sep 2013
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#6
ah yes sounds good ^^ Ive done some really boring stuff in my life and kept going but yea i know what youre saying ^^ my idea of learning a song is learning every part. Intro, verse, chorus, interlude etc. Is there another idea of it? :P
D_M_I
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#7
Quote by playgu
ah yes sounds good ^^ Ive done some really boring stuff in my life and kept going but yea i know what youre saying ^^ my idea of learning a song is learning every part. Intro, verse, chorus, interlude etc. Is there another idea of it? :P


No. Basically joking around. Many new players think they have learned a song, but really are no where near it. That's why I said if you really learned them proper in a month, you'll be fine. You're miles ahead of many new players.
playgu
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#8
Thats good to hear but I do cheat a bit though. Sometimes I use easier techniques than what the actual artists use
triface
Drenched in Syrup
Join date: Jan 2010
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#9
I'd play something hard, but not something that's wayyy out of my league. It's very easy to not give a damn, wing the whole song and think you've got the song under your belt. That's what I did about 2-3 years in.

Just slowly go through the song and make sure you're playing everything cleanly. Slow down the song if you need to. If you reach a plateau, take a break from the song for awhile. You could just muscle through the plateau with more practice, but I personally find it extremely frustrating after awhile, so I focus on a different technique or on a different song.
playgu
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#10
Think that ill have to do both man. The last hour i did theory. It was boring as **** but i also saw the advantages. Do both to not kill the passion ^^ good advice
Dave_Mc
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Join date: Mar 2005
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#11
Quote by D_M_I
Do whatever keeps you interested.

Then decide what you want to be capable of doing and work towards that. Right now is the time to get a solid base like The Dimery said. But if it makes it so you don't enjoy it, do something else. That is where most people kind of give up, because they don't enjoy the work part of learning guitar.

If you've truly learned a couple songs already after a month (your idea of learned a song is probably different than mine right now) I think you'll do well no matter what road you take.

As long as you are having fun and getting better, you're doing it right.


+1

Making sure you enjoy it is the #1 thing. I've never heard of anyone giving up guitar because it was too much fun. Even if you're not practising in the most efficient way (whatever that is, if it's even quantifiable), the only sure thing is you'll get an awful lot better if you keep playing than if you quit.

I'd also say, though, that there's a fine line between playing something challenging, which'll make you improve, and playing something you haven't got a hope with, which will likely just demoralise you.
Quote by classicrocker01
Only on UG would I say I got engaged and bought a jet city and get congratulated on the amp


playgu
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#12
ok so lets say that this is my scenario. Ill study theory for like 1 h per day and then just play for fun. Is that enough or is theory too vast to be spending that little time everyday on it?
I know its a stupid question but still
Last edited by playgu at Oct 5, 2013,
Dave_Mc
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#13
do whatever you like, basically.

1 hour a day on theory is a fair bit unless it's your job or something. heck even playing an hour a day solely of stuff you want to play is better than what 99% of the population is doing.

plus if you try to cover too much too quickly you run the risk of it not going in properly.

I'm not saying you shouldn't set yourself goals, but don't be too hard on yourself, either.
Quote by classicrocker01
Only on UG would I say I got engaged and bought a jet city and get congratulated on the amp


playgu
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#14
ye well im one of those priviledged people with a lot of spare time. So ive really got the time to spend that much time compared to many other people who actually have to go places and do stuff.
Yea Ive just got to have fun doing it and treat it like a hobby which it really is. Otherwise ill kill all of the fun I guess.

If theres one thing im good at its remembering patterns and repeating them til i can do it in my sleep. So I could actually go for harder stuff cause of that. :P
Dave_Mc
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#15
I'm not saying you shouldn't learn theory or anything like that- if you have time to do it and enjoy it, then go for it (I enjoy a little bit of theory, lol). I'm just saying if you *don't* enjoy it, or don't want to spend hours doing drills, don't let anyone tell you you're not practising properly, it's meant to be fun at the end of the day.
Quote by classicrocker01
Only on UG would I say I got engaged and bought a jet city and get congratulated on the amp


Geldin
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#16
Quote by playgu
Ive been playing for a month now, multiple hours everyday. I learn easy songs in like half of a day. Everlong for example and joker and the thief. My question is if its a bad idea to learn a hard song. I really want to learn to play Ozzys Hellraiser. Can it be bad for my developement to go for such a song.
Would be kind if you who have gone through the newbie period could come up with some advice.
Thanks

The only way to get better is to learn to play things you can't. Learning Hellraiser is gonna be a much bigger challenge than learning Smells Like Teen Spirit, but there's no reason to not start learning it. Just make sure that you're learning to play properly and emphasize good technique when you practice.
playgu
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#17
Quote by Dave_Mc
I'm not saying you shouldn't learn theory or anything like that- if you have time to do it and enjoy it, then go for it (I enjoy a little bit of theory, lol). I'm just saying if you *don't* enjoy it, or don't want to spend hours doing drills, don't let anyone tell you you're not practising properly, it's meant to be fun at the end of the day.



Well I just started to learn theory and It just seemed like a whole lot of sitting down memorizing stuff and not actually playing. If theres a lot of excersises to do I would actually like that. As long as I get to play the damned thing im happy
playgu
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#18
Quote by Geldin
The only way to get better is to learn to play things you can't. Learning Hellraiser is gonna be a much bigger challenge than learning Smells Like Teen Spirit, but there's no reason to not start learning it. Just make sure that you're learning to play properly and emphasize good technique when you practice.


Yea I mean it should contain all the elements that teaches you the art of rock ^^(or atleast many of them) guess it doesnt matter if i do it slow or fast ill still learn something. Finger speed, technique, rhytm etc. Cant be bad i reckon. Additionally if i learn something really hard the easy stuff will become easier to nail i reckon.
Dave_Mc
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#19
Quote by playgu
Well I just started to learn theory and It just seemed like a whole lot of sitting down memorizing stuff and not actually playing. If theres a lot of excersises to do I would actually like that. As long as I get to play the damned thing im happy


troy stetina's "speed mechanics for lead guitar" has a bunch of pretty good exercises in it. I'm guessing it's on amazon's "look inside" thing, as well, if you're too cheap to buy it you can probably get the first few pages for free

EDIT: depending on how you do it, theory can be either practical or learning (or both). If you're taking a rest from playing, say, you could leaf through a theory book or something like that. If you can be bothered.
Quote by classicrocker01
Only on UG would I say I got engaged and bought a jet city and get congratulated on the amp


Aimeethebomb
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Join date: Oct 2013
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#20
I've been playing for about 2 years and before then I wasn't really moving forward. My guitar teacher wasn't challenging me enough, so I took it upon myself to learn some harder songs. I've gotten SO much better since then. Go for it.
playgu
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#21
Quote by Dave_Mc
troy stetina's "speed mechanics for lead guitar" has a bunch of pretty good exercises in it. I'm guessing it's on amazon's "look inside" thing, as well, if you're too cheap to buy it you can probably get the first few pages for free

EDIT: depending on how you do it, theory can be either practical or learning (or both). If you're taking a rest from playing, say, you could leaf through a theory book or something like that. If you can be bothered.


I got the book as you reccomended dude. Havnt really looked at it yet but ill do that. Thanks for the reccomendation.
playgu
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#22
Quote by Aimeethebomb
I've been playing for about 2 years and before then I wasn't really moving forward. My guitar teacher wasn't challenging me enough, so I took it upon myself to learn some harder songs. I've gotten SO much better since then. Go for it.


Yea, in most things pushing yourself is good. The harder the threshold your trying to overcome is the better the rewards going to be I reckon.
Last edited by playgu at Oct 6, 2013,
playgu
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#23
If you guys would have the ability to go back to when you started and change the way you learned guitar. What would it be? what would some protips coming from your wisdom be?
What goals should I have as a newbie aspiring guitarist? (monthly and the first year)
greg73
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Join date: Apr 2009
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#24
^^ what he said! I am all over the place at the moment , triads and stuff I understand , the theory behind the circle of fifths I understand ( even thou I don't get the circle fully ) and scales I understand to an extent ( the major scales anyhow ) .

Ive been playing at least 5 hours plus a week and reading maybe 3 hours a week or so , mostly I play progessions , I still haven't learnt a full song , either in rythym or lead ( thou I do want to start in rythym ) I have no doubt I can learn songs but keep trying to tell myself im building a house and needs good foundations , but I guess I don't know how many inches of foundation I need . ( not a sexual pun btw)
playgu
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#25
Yes that is a good way to think of it. The more we invest into the boring stuff, the more fun it will be in the future. An investment really.
I think ive got a better mental image of what Im doing now though. Thanks yall
The Dimery
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#26
Quote by playgu
Yea, in most things pushing yourself is good. The harder the threshold your trying to overcome is the better the rewards going to be I reckon.


Yes, but it's been said (and I agree) that learning a song which is 'too hard' can lower your confidence quite considerably.
Attempting Brian Setzer's Sleepwalk a month into playing guitar is not going to be very encouraging
Dave_Mc
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#27
Quote by playgu
I got the book as you reccomended dude. Havnt really looked at it yet but ill do that. Thanks for the reccomendation.




Quote by playgu
If you guys would have the ability to go back to when you started and change the way you learned guitar. What would it be? what would some protips coming from your wisdom be?
What goals should I have as a newbie aspiring guitarist? (monthly and the first year)


It's really hard to say. I'd possibly take a more structured approach (and also realise a lot sooner that there were a lot of shortcuts etc. to understanding the fretboard and chords etc.), but at the same time I still enjoy playing, so I must have been doing something right.

As I always say, it's a fine line between improving/practising as efficiently as possible, and keeping it fun. It's very dependent on what you're like as a person, too...
Quote by classicrocker01
Only on UG would I say I got engaged and bought a jet city and get congratulated on the amp


playgu
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#28
Quote by Dave_Mc



It's really hard to say. I'd possibly take a more structured approach (and also realise a lot sooner that there were a lot of shortcuts etc. to understanding the fretboard and chords etc.), but at the same time I still enjoy playing, so I must have been doing something right.

As I always say, it's a fine line between improving/practising as efficiently as possible, and keeping it fun. It's very dependent on what you're like as a person, too...


Im a person that goes to hard and ruin my passion :P Has happened before. I can hold up for like a year then I just realize the fun is dead. So yea I think my approach better be to force myself to do the fun stuff.

Those shortcuts that you guys know are really invalueble info that I would love to get my hands on :P
playgu
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#29
Quote by The Dimery
Yes, but it's been said (and I agree) that learning a song which is 'too hard' can lower your confidence quite considerably.
Attempting Brian Setzer's Sleepwalk a month into playing guitar is not going to be very encouraging


Listening to it I can see why ^^
Dave_Mc
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#30
There are tons more shortcuts than this. I'm sure I haven't got near all of them.

But a couple of pretty handy ones are- learn movable (normally barre, but not always... anything that doesn't have an open string is movable) chords. that lets you get a usable chord shape for all the common chords while only having to learn a couple of shapes.

if you're playing a minor pentatonic box, move down 3 frets with the same shape and you'll be playing major pentatonic (of the same root note). You'll have to adjust slightly which notes you rest on, but you'll be playing in the right scale, at least.

any shape you're playing on the lower-pitched strings, when you move to string 2, has to go up one fret because it's tuned one semitone lower in relation to the other strings.

Going up two strings and up two frets is an octave (as long as you're on the lowest-pitched 4 strings- for the top two strings it's 3 frets). So if you have a pattern under your fingers that works on, say, string 5, move to string 3 and move up two frets and you'll be playing the same thing an octave higher. it also works in reverse (for playing an octave lower), and for patterns across two strings (and is a very quick way of being able to use the whole neck, since a lot of the time you'd be playing across a couple of strings before moving up or down a position). If you're playing on string 3, you'd move to string 1 and go up 3 frets.

Try to get a good vibrato (if you're playing any lead at all). If you have a good vibrato it sounds like you know what you're doing (even if you don't). Conversely, if you don't have a good vibrato it sounds like you don't (even if you do).

there are probably loads more than that. A lot of those things sound obvious, but (to me, anyway) knowing them and knowing what they actually implied and meant in practice were two different things.
Quote by classicrocker01
Only on UG would I say I got engaged and bought a jet city and get congratulated on the amp


Black_devils
Registered User
Join date: Aug 2013
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#31
Go on justinguitar.com and follow the beginners course i'm 100% sure you'll love it he's one of the best if not the best out of all the guitar teachers on the internet!
SuperMissMan
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2012
635 IQ
#32
I've played for three years, and if anything helped me, it was playing something I didn't find easy, and something that wasn't too hard. If u struggle with a song, but still can play it, practice it until you've mastered it...did u start with picking? That's not the best way to go, always start leaning with chords, it makes the picking easier.
fanapathy
B-Tuned
Join date: Jul 2010
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#33
#1 thing while starting out is to enjoy the learning process. If you drown yourself in theory, memorizing notes, doing chromatic exercises - you'll probably end up putting the guitar in the attic and never want to touch the instrument again. The same happens if you go to some site that has a beginner program which forces you to learn these horrible beginner songs.
Learn some of your favorite riffs, crank up the distortion, have a blast. You'll play terribly but it will be fun. Yes, learn the basics, open chords, barre chords, practice good technique, you'll need those. There's a ton to learn, you don't need to know all the "boring" stuff right away.
bobcrackchuc
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#34
It's always awesome to challenge yourself, and to learn new things, but learning a song like Hellraiser is a little bit too much for a month in. I've been playing for about seven and struggle with fairly simple stuff when it comes to lead work, so challenge yourself, but I wouldn't learn Hellraiser, you could end up taking shortcuts in playing it, and can get really frustrated. Try learning the solo to Smoke on the Water, really easy, realistic choice for someone a month in. Good bend practice as well.

Good luck!
playgu
Registered User
Join date: Sep 2013
122 IQ
#35
Justinguitar seems good. Ive watched some of his videos and it seems good. Really good since i hated the site i was currently using. It felt like something a teacher who hated his job would create.
I went back to playing stuff which really made me feel good and now I actually want to play again
I refuse to play smoke on the water even if it is the solo :P but im sure theres a solo as easy ^^
thanks yall
MaaZeus
Registered User
Join date: Sep 2012
409 IQ
#36
Justin is awesome. IMHO every beginner guitarist who want to learn guitar without a teacher should go through most his Beginners Course before wandering out on his own and getting lost into the world of tabs. Really well done and easy to understand videos.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
playgu
Registered User
Join date: Sep 2013
122 IQ
#37
Btw really off topic. Is there any good tuning app? I would like to tune my guitar so that i can do Qotsa covers. The ones ive tried have all been directed to tuning standard or have tuned the guitar wrong. I cant do it by ear as im not that good of a listener yet ^^. As I understand its basicly a half step down for most of their songs though?
MaaZeus
Registered User
Join date: Sep 2012
409 IQ
#38
Do you have Android based smart phone? Download gSrings app. Its quite accurate though starts to fumble a bit (most likely the microphone limitation) when you start to go real low, like Drop A. But using 12 fret harmonics it can do those too.

Dont know about iPhone apps. On internet Youtube is full of vids where you can tune your to match an example.

Here is one for half-step down (officially D# or Eb Standard/Concert tuning)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oyRG8phxpF4

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
Last edited by MaaZeus at Oct 19, 2013,
playgu
Registered User
Join date: Sep 2013
122 IQ
#39
Yea Ive got android so it will be perfect. Thanks man
playgu
Registered User
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122 IQ
#40
another off topic question. Sorry for using this thread as my newbie question box. I played the rhytm guitar on a qotsa song, go with the flow. It sounds kinda weird to me, atleast the E5 chord. Think its because of the tuning. Its the right tone but theres so must dist that you cant even hear the strumming it all just blend into the noise. I tried changing stuff around with the amp and on the guitar but I still have that sound. Is it supposed to be that way? is my guitar too bad? (fender tele, mexican) or is it the amp? Playing the lead sounds clean but like that power chord just sounds weird. Any ideas?