KailM
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2011
5,120 IQ
#1
Hey guys,

I stopped by the local shop this evening and noticed that they had some older used cabs for $50 each. One was a Berringer, the other I don't know (it has this crappy-looking felt covering), and a Valveking 412 cab.

I've been wanting to buy an Avatar Contemporary 212 unloaded cab now for oh...2 years or so. I've just not had an extra penny for these kinds of things. I'm getting closer to being able to afford one but I'm pretty much out of things to sell, lol. I work 65+ hours a week and that barely covers my bills. More work is not really an option.

Anyway, I know Valveking cabs are not considered that great, but it's probably mostly because of crappy speakers, right? I'd throw my Eminence Governor in there with the Sheffield that came with my 6505+ combo (which I don't find to be that bad of a speaker). Plus, at $50, I think I've got enough money left over to buy another pair of Eminences to go with my existing two speakers. I was thinking of blending Swamp Thangs with eventually another Governor. The tolex on this cab is fairly worn, but I could probably get some new material and re-do that myself.

Size-wise, it's about the same as a Marshall 1960A. (They have one of those too, but for some reason they're not letting it go for $50...). Is this something I'd regret/a cab that wouldn't sound good no matter what speakers are in it?

I've wanted something bigger to get a bigger, deeper sound, but aesthetics are important too. I just don't know what I want to do...

Thanks for any advice...
AtaBorMan
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#3
Get it. If you don't like it you can always sell it for more.
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bobafettacheese
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#4
To add, buy it and if you don't like the sound swap the speakers, you still have the cab.
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#5
I wish i could find cabs going that cheap...
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#6
Why are valveking cabs valued so lowly? There's a vk head plus 4x12 on Craig's list for 250 right now. If only I wanted a halfstack
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dspellman
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#7
Look it over carefully. If it's an MDF (particle board construction) cabinet, look for impact or moisture damage -- a bit of moisture can turn one of these into a pile of soggy sawdust. Particle board cabinets are fine for at-home playing, but not quite so great for gigging, where you may need a bit of extra durability.

Open the back and check for insect infestation. Friend of mine got a used 4x12 cabinet home, hooked it up, and I mentioned to him, "You've got cockroaches!" because I saw a couple running around the basement where the cabinet was stored. "No, I don't" he grumbled. And then I noticed one of them coming out of the cabinet itself. We hauled the cabinet up the stairs and out into the back yard, opened the back and found a couple of million of them.

And the check the individual speakers; sometimes they can be blown or non-functional in a cheap cabinet.

My advice is (if you get it), do NOT replace the covering with tolex. Look into Duratex (a textured, rubberized kind of coating that's appearing on a LOT of speaker cabinets). Easy to apply, pretty rugged, and very easy to touch up should it get trashed. The second option (and one that I've been living with on one pair of 2x12s for the last 2-3 years) is LineX -- a pickup truck bed liner that can be sprayed on the cabinets. It looks a bit like tolex, but it's become legendary for toughness; the military uses it as an anti-spalling coating on the outside of buildings that might suffer explosion damage. You spray it on hot, and it sets up in around 7 seconds. You're ready to take it home about half an hour later, and the stuff is well and truly set up within about 48 hours. It will laugh off brutal handling, to the point where you have to be a bit careful of the OTHER gear around it.
trashedlostfdup
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#8
Quote by dspellman
Look it over carefully. If it's an MDF (particle board construction) cabinet, look for impact or moisture damage -- a bit of moisture can turn one of these into a pile of soggy sawdust. Particle board cabinets are fine for at-home playing, but not quite so great for gigging, where you may need a bit of extra durability.

Open the back and check for insect infestation. Friend of mine got a used 4x12 cabinet home, hooked it up, and I mentioned to him, "You've got cockroaches!" because I saw a couple running around the basement where the cabinet was stored. "No, I don't" he grumbled. And then I noticed one of them coming out of the cabinet itself. We hauled the cabinet up the stairs and out into the back yard, opened the back and found a couple of million of them.

And the check the individual speakers; sometimes they can be blown or non-functional in a cheap cabinet.

My advice is (if you get it), do NOT replace the covering with tolex. Look into Duratex (a textured, rubberized kind of coating that's appearing on a LOT of speaker cabinets). Easy to apply, pretty rugged, and very easy to touch up should it get trashed. The second option (and one that I've been living with on one pair of 2x12s for the last 2-3 years) is LineX -- a pickup truck bed liner that can be sprayed on the cabinets. It looks a bit like tolex, but it's become legendary for toughness; the military uses it as an anti-spalling coating on the outside of buildings that might suffer explosion damage. You spray it on hot, and it sets up in around 7 seconds. You're ready to take it home about half an hour later, and the stuff is well and truly set up within about 48 hours. It will laugh off brutal handling, to the point where you have to be a bit careful of the OTHER gear around it.


Line x type products can work pretty good and durable. When i was building engines for drag racing, i would gut the car and line x it. Worked great.
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MaaZeus
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#9
For that price even the all MDF Behringer is worth it, maybe even bargain if its a one with Jensen speakers. I have no experience with VK cabs but i do know its all plywood and 50$ for all plywood 4x12 cab screams bargain to me.

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KailM
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Join date: Feb 2011
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#10
Thanks guys, I think I may not be able to pass up this deal. Since its made of plywood, $50 is really a hell of a deal. I like the idea of that spray on lining. My dad also has a plasma cam that I could use to make some pretty cool metal plating. If anything, I can keep the old speakers and then just transfer the better ones into a better cab when I can afford one someday.
Does anyone know what resistance rating the VK cab' s speakers have? My Governor and Sheffield are both 16 ohm, so I may not be able to use them with the VK's speakers. Any thoughts? Is it normal to run four 16 ohm speakers?
Offworld92
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#11
If money is that tight, I would say go for it.

That's tough, hope your situation improves somehow.
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#12
I would buy it for sure, if you need it. You already have an amp that's gig worthy so I'm not sure why you'd need a 4x12 but if you're planning on making a head out of the combo or something then sure, go for it.

The Valveking has mediocre speakers. Are they going to ruin your sound? No, but they don't really do any favors. Very bland and they aren't overly articulate.
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KailM
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Join date: Feb 2011
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#13
Well, I ended up buying a Crate 412 right next to it! (New cab day coming soon). The Crate was actually in better condition, and has Celestion G12S-50 speakers inside. The shop guy and I looked over the VK cab and for the life of us couldn't figure out how to get to the speakers without taking the cab apart. So I decided to try them both with a Mesa Dual Rec and cranked her up proper!

The Crate just sounded and looked better, period. Plus it had a removable back panel like all NORMAL cabs. I picked it up for $50. Yes, I said $50!!!!

Indeed, it has the aforementioned Celestions inside. I don't know much about them but they don't sound bad. I'm trying to find an Ohm rating on them to see if I can put my Eminence Governor in there, but I'm kind of thinking the Celestions are 8 ohm. (My Governor is 16.)

Anyway, the sound is very nice so far and is exactly the improvement I was looking for in terms of low-end thump. I have to say, my 6505 blows the Dual Rec away. Sorry folks. But that's just a fact. The good thing is that I think I can afford a new set of Eminence speakers to try in there. I'm thinking another Governor and two Swamp Thang's crossed. There will be no survivors, haha!
Last edited by KailM at Nov 9, 2013,
timbit2006
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#14
I'd buy all of them.

My Valveking 212 Combo doesn't sound all too bad with the speakers but that is with a 31 band EQ.
The felt covered cab could actually be something good. Hughes & Kettner has a bunch of felt cabs that I know of.
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Last edited by timbit2006 at Nov 11, 2013,
KailM
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Join date: Feb 2011
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#15
^^Yeah, after looking at it, the felt covering doesn't look that bad. I think it might maintain its look better than tolex, actually. For $50, it's a hell of a cab, and all the speakers are nice Celestions; not V30s, but nice. When I go to sell it I can probably double the price easily. I'll make a "new cab day" thread this evening so you guys can see it.
MaaZeus
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#16
The Valveking is propably front mounted. The cab is sealed all around but the front grill will come off with a little prying (if there are no hidden screws). I also looked up about the G12S-50. Pretty hard to find reliable information but apparently it is a predecessor (spelling?) of Rocket 50, similar in a some ways but has bigger magnet and is louder. I presume it means that its simply better.

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KailM
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#17
Quote by MaaZeus
The Valveking is propably front mounted. The cab is sealed all around but the front grill will come off with a little prying (if there are no hidden screws). I also looked up about the G12S-50. Pretty hard to find reliable information but apparently it is a predecessor (spelling?) of Rocket 50, similar in a some ways but has bigger magnet and is louder. I presume it means that its simply better.



Compared to my Governor (V-30 clone), the G12S-50s are a little more scooped sounding. They are clear but don't really emphasize one frequency over another. I've got my Governor in the upper right corner now and when listening up close, I can hear that the Gov has more bite and also maybe a bit more "thump." I think I'm gonna get another Governor and two Swamp Thangs to fill in the lows a bit more and still have plenty of upper mids. For my desired tone, I want a TON of punch and low-end; yet still maintain tightness, clarity, and have enough mids to provide a grinding distortion.

But really, it didn't sound bad at all with 4 of the Celestions. When it comes time to upgrade my cab, I think I could put them back in and probably still make money on the whole deal by selling it for more than I paid.
dspellman
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#18
G12S-50s are the predecessor of the Rocket 50 (though they were manufactured together for a while). Wouldn't be surprised if the cabinet was an 80's/90's vintage. The speakers were...uh..."cost effective," meaning that they cost the manufacturer probably $15 each, maybe less. They're about 6 dB less sensitive than, say, a Vintage 30, meaning that your 100W amp performs like a 25W by comparison.

I'm not sure that you're going to get to your goal of a "ton of punch and low-end" unless you keep your volume fairly low. Neither the Governor nor the Swamp Thang are going to do you a lot of good there, and a 4x12 isn't the best cabinet to produce that anyway. Bedroom, maybe. Anything louder, no.
KailM
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#19
Quote by dspellman


I'm not sure that you're going to get to your goal of a "ton of punch and low-end" unless you keep your volume fairly low. Neither the Governor nor the Swamp Thang are going to do you a lot of good there, and a 4x12 isn't the best cabinet to produce that anyway. Bedroom, maybe. Anything louder, no.


Not to contradict what you just said, but a lot of it flies in the face of what I've read (and experienced). My 412 rig certainly has more low end now than it did when it was a single 1 X 12 combo. EVERY half-stack configuration I've ever tried had more low-end than just 1 speaker in a smaller box. I'm not sure how you arrived at that statement.

As for the Swamp Thang, by almost all accounts, it is a speaker that emphasizes big, tight lows and lower-mids. I'm fully aware of what the Governor does sonically.

Finally, I'm not sure where you arrived at your "bedroom, maybe/anything louder, no" comment.

Frankly, what exactly are you talking about???
Last edited by KailM at Nov 11, 2013,