Just thought I'd share this - the difference between entry-level pres and better pres

axemanchris
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#1
I saw this basic explanation elsewhere, but couldn't find it for the life of me, so I re-created it. What I remembered was that the explanation was so simple, and yet so effective.

This blog explains what the difference is between your entry-level mic preamps and the preamps you'll get on something many times the price.

http://greenroommusicblog.blogspot.ca/2013/11/preamp-quality-simple-but-effective.html

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

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unofficiallyme2
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#2
I'd agree. I have focusrite pre's. They're decent, especially for the price point. But i have worked in places with SSL, Avalon, UA and a bunch of other exotic high end pres and the difference is outstanding.
ChemicalFire
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#3
^Really expensive and world renowned Pre's are better than a $150 unit?


Wow. I'd never of known.

Srsly dude some of the posts you make sound like you just want to show off that you've heard names of expensive products.
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GaryBillington
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#4
Quote by ChemicalFire
Srsly dude some of the posts you make sound like you just want to show off that you've heard names of expensive products.

How can you possibly say such a thing?

Remember, this is the guy who's first post was to warn everyone to stay away from the forums because we all know nothing.

We should be thankful for all these useful tips he's giving us so we can all learn from him, as we obviously didn't know anything before he came to save us.
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ChemicalFire
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#5
I'll also be telling my local venue that they need to upgrade their sm58's to Neumann U87 else I won't be attending or playing any of their shows ever again.
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Sethis
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#6
Isn't this difference mainly about the bitrate you use to record with?

I think this is about your expectations and sensory capabilities. I am not saying these are not technically better pre's but before you get one of these you should ask yourself "Do I really need it?". You could get a Ford to get to work or you could also get a Ferrari.

Apart from that, your chain is as strong as it's weakest link is. That means you may have to spend even more cash. The previous question applies here again.
unofficiallyme2
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#7
Quote by ChemicalFire
^Really expensive and world renowned Pre's are better than a $150 unit?


Wow. I'd never of known.

Srsly dude some of the posts you make sound like you just want to show off that you've heard names of expensive products.

I'm adding some personal experience to the OP you asshole. I post stupid answers to the stupid, mundane questions asked.
ChemicalFire
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#8
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oneblackened
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#9
Quote by Sethis
Isn't this difference mainly about the bitrate you use to record with?

I think this is about your expectations and sensory capabilities. I am not saying these are not technically better pre's but before you get one of these you should ask yourself "Do I really need it?". You could get a Ford to get to work or you could also get a Ferrari.

Apart from that, your chain is as strong as it's weakest link is. That means you may have to spend even more cash. The previous question applies here again.

No. Converters =/= pres
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axemanchris
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#10
Quote by Sethis
Isn't this difference mainly about the bitrate you use to record with?


No, but a similar analogy may be made.

Quote by Sethis

I think this is about your expectations and sensory capabilities. I am not saying these are not technically better pre's but before you get one of these you should ask yourself "Do I really need it?". You could get a Ford to get to work or you could also get a Ferrari.


Yes and no. Perhaps a better analogy would be choosing the right reading glasses. You could use a wrong prescription and hold the page out away from you and tilt it back a bit here and there, eventually reading most of the message correctly. Sure, "you'll still get to work", but with a fair bit of screwing around and aggravation, and in the end, you might still find that the best you can do is park a block away.

Quote by Sethis

Apart from that, your chain is as strong as it's weakest link is. That means you may have to spend even more cash. The previous question applies here again.


Right. If you go to an optician and get glasses specifically made for your eyes, they will cost more. The alternative is to buy some off the shelf at the local pharmacy and see if they'll suit your needs in a pinch.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
T4D
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#11
interesting if your budget can handle $1000 preamps I sort of agree I have found my eleven rack alot better then anything i have used before ,..

but budget has to come into play and the whole chain also has to be balanced within your budget,. spending $500 High level preamps with a $100 USB interface using reaper as your DAW , a Sm 58 microphone, a cheap guitar with stock pickup with a Sanya China stereo as your monitors AND your in a concrete room,.. maybe that $500 preamps may not have been the best place to put your money ?

in other words looking are upgrading your preamp's has to be at the end of your shopping list IMO.



but something did strike me reading this

However, if I record 16 tracks with the Behringer preamps, I'll fight like hell to get the mix where I want it, whereas if I record 16 tracks with the Steinberg/Yamaha preamps, the project will pretty much mix itself. The difference is not in the "single listen", but in the cumulative effect of actual practice.


axemanchris Didn't you say the same thing nearly word for word in this thread on studio monitors ? Thread - Post
Last edited by T4D at Nov 17, 2013,
axemanchris
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#12
Yes, it was that thread that made me think of that, actually.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
timbit2006
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#13
Y'know, instead of that stupid blog post you could've just said, "You get what you pay for". I think it's kinda obvious.
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T4D
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#14
Quote by timbit2006
Y'know, instead of that stupid blog post you could've just said, "You get what you pay for". I think it's kinda obvious.


the scariest things about the subject of "Mic preamps" is the cost.

Some like to talk about Line 6 or Behringer being the worst and IF your willing to say focusrite (or what you prefer) is better ok cool,. But there ALL still around the $100 mark and your probability buying it for the rest of the package ,. ( audio interface etc )

but to talk directly about "Mic preamps" there a HUGE cliff to the next level that starts at around the $500+ mark but only getting juicy around $1500 and then all the way up and over $6000 for 2 channels !!!

just my little opinion but that's Totally professional studio territory, since $500 + will always get the "personal studio" far more if spent on other things.
Last edited by T4D at Nov 19, 2013,
chatterbox272
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#15
Quote by timbit2006
Y'know, instead of that stupid blog post you could've just said, "You get what you pay for". I think it's kinda obvious.

Y'know, instead of that stupid forum post you could've just said nothing. I think it's kinda obvious.
Spambot_2
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#16
Quote by From OP's link
listen to the Behringer preamps and they do sound pretty darn good.

Aside from what the OP did, I wouldn't say the article is that good, either.
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timbit2006
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#17
Quote by chatterbox272
Y'know, instead of that stupid forum post you could've just said nothing. I think it's kinda obvious.

You posted about my post too, jackass.
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tim_mop
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#18
A bad pre can ruin a recording, but a good pre doesn't make a recording. Simple.

After a certain point pres are just about different or classic sounds.
axemanchris
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#19
Quote by timbit2006
Y'know, instead of that stupid blog post you could've just said, "You get what you pay for". I think it's kinda obvious.


Well, maybe so, but the number of questions (and/or comments) on this forum that basically ask what that blog post answers seems to suggest that people want to know what, exactly, that "more" is when you pay more.

Really, you listen to a track recorded with a Behringer pre and then a track recorded with a whatever pre, the difference isn't usually night and day. It makes sense that one would ask, "why bother? Mine sound close enough."

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
lsume
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#20
I am certainly no expert on the pro's and con's of various manufacturers and what they deliver vs cost but I do have a simple thought. Is there not somewhere in the tangle of equipment and output something that is an analogue to digital converter. If yes, then there is probably a preamp involved.
Spambot_2
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#21
First of all, please don't go and comment in months-old threads, and second, please next time explain yourself better.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
lsume
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#22
The date above the comment was near the end of November. Since I am new to this site I was unaware that 11/13 was considered old. I will be paying closer attention to the date of all of the posts. It appeared to me that the beginning of the chat was years ago and the more recent reply was less than 2 months ago. Again, I will pay better attention.

Since you said that you were not involved with the subject I can understand your comment. I assumed by the quotes that I read that those interested in the subject would be way ahead of needing any further explaination.

I could be very wrong about that.
Spambot_2
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#23
^ I didn't say I'm not involved in the subject, I said I didn't get what you said :P

And the recording chat thread has been active in the meantime, plus it's a sticky, so that's fine.
Thing is, you can usually get better help if you post a new thread instead that posting in an old one.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
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I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
axemanchris
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#24
Quote by lsume
I am certainly no expert on the pro's and con's of various manufacturers and what they deliver vs cost but I do have a simple thought. Is there not somewhere in the tangle of equipment and output something that is an analogue to digital converter. If yes, then there is probably a preamp involved.


Yes, there are Analogue to digital converters in that sequence too, but my blog was basically just targeting the preamps. There are also digital to analog converters too.

Your basic interface kinda looks like this:

signal > preamp > AD converter > computer

And then on the way out....

computer > DA converter > amplifier > speaker

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.