#1
hey guys, the T&C forums have been pretty dead for a while, so i figure id liven it up a bit

heres what i have so far of my latest song. if youve heard my music already, youll know what to expect: the unexpected lol

but really, more of my super-melodic prog-metal, this time with influences from djent, groove metal, and more!

FYI: for the best sound, turn up the reverb on the center guitar, chimes, and ambient keys. mainly center guitar

Edit: i just finished the solo. tell me what you guys think!

Edit 2: the song is now finished! tell me what you guys think!!! all input is appreciated
Attachments:
latest song.gp5
Latest song update.gp5
New song complete.gp5.zip
Last edited by pAWNlol at Dec 12, 2013,
#2
Sounds awesome! If I had a 6 string and was any good at slapping I'd give it a shot learning the bass part.
#3
sounds great man, id love to hear how you complete it. im gonna try my hand at learning the guitar parts and solo in the mean time.
I could be kicking the bucket, but i never had very good aim
#4
Don't have time for a full crit now, just wanted to say I really liked it, good job, sounds awesome.
#5
Quote by Jipley0
Sounds awesome! If I had a 6 string and was any good at slapping I'd give it a shot learning the bass part.

hah thanks man. i definitely had to step up my own bass game just for this song
#6
Nice melodies and that verse1 was very heavy! The EBow solo was very emotional haha I shed a tear or two :p Nice song so groovy It felt good to hear that kind of stuff.
#7
Quote by Craziork
Nice melodies and that verse1 was very heavy! The EBow solo was very emotional haha I shed a tear or two :p Nice song so groovy It felt good to hear that kind of stuff.

hah, thanks man. but really? you thought verse 1 was heavy? pretty much this whole song was made to have a relatively chill atmosphere
#8
yes it felt heavy for me, probably because of the drum kicking in plus the bass's sixth string tuned so low. (it's not deathmetal heavy, but still)
#9
Sounded pretty well written and original to me (okay, it sounded like Periphery with a bit more synth to me, but still...). Certainly something I'd listen to. I have no complaints, but if I could make very small suggestions, if I were writing it I'd have some kind of counterpoint during the build up, and some sort of support under the bass fury part.
#10
Quote by Macabre_Turtle
Sounded pretty well written and original to me (okay, it sounded like Periphery with a bit more synth to me, but still...). Certainly something I'd listen to. I have no complaints, but if I could make very small suggestions, if I were writing it I'd have some kind of counterpoint during the build up, and some sort of support under the bass fury part.

care to offer any suggestions or specific examples? im not quite sure what youre thinking
#11
@pAWNlol: Do you know what counterpoint is? It's where you have two independent melodies. So chuck in a new melody with the synth. I also think the bass should be more energetic and intricate in the build up. Take some elements from the rhythm of the percussion and play some legato/slap fills.

The intro melody to this piece has a counter-melody added after a repeat:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcGr3-2wqDE

Bach also used it a lot in his Fugues. Read up on Fugues and you'll learn how difficult it is to write a good one. That said, counter-point is by no means impossible, you can definitely take that from Bach.

At least that's what I thought when I read what Macabre_Turtle had posted.
#12
Quote by pAWNlol
care to offer any suggestions or specific examples? im not quite sure what youre thinking


I wrote in a two bars of counterpoint for the buildup. You can add to it, repeat it, get rid of it, whatever. Just an example of what I had in mind.

As for the bass part, I didn't have any particular ideas in mind. I just think when a song cuts down to just drums and bass, the bass has gone away from its supporting role, and something else needs to take it's place. Whether it's more synth chords like the previous riff, some kind of melody from a synth, some kind of subtle/not-too-distracting guitar part... anything really.
Attachments:
Latest song update.gp5
#13
Quote by HaydenHohns
At least that's what I thought when I read what Macabre_Turtle had posted.


Spot on.
#14
@hayden: yes im familiar with the tern; im actually quite theory-inclined. i just wanted a specific example

@macabe: that didnt sound bad, but it wouldve been better in a lower register. what you wrote on the left guitar would have made a decent tenor line. ill keep that in mind for later on when i bring that main motif back

in the meantime, what do you all think of the solo?
#15
I think a lot of the 32nd note weedly weedly is unnecessary, but the chromaticisms are cool, and I really like when the rhythm under goes all groovy.
#16
@pAWNlol: Your notation suggests otherwise.

The solos are dreadful IMO, I would cut out the section labelled Ebow solo and then the phrasing is awfully incoherent and I hate how you always pause on a note at the beginning of phrases. It is a problem that plagues nearly every guitar solo I hear in metal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifju6lAVPNw

Listen to the example there and when you get to the solo, listen carefully, the phrasing that starts at ~5:40 happens at the end of the progression that then continues into the next measure/phrase (5:42). Nearly all guitarists avoid this and that is one reason why a lot of solos lack fluid movement. I didn't notice I was lacking this until my old guitar teacher told me. You would be surprised how good you can make some basic licks sound once you can employ this idea comfortably.

Just an opinion, don't take me that seriously.

Just reading what Macabre_Turtle said, the groove riffs underneath is very good and the changes throughout the rhythm parts are good. You just need to execute a better solo.
Last edited by HaydenHohns at Dec 10, 2013,
#17
Quote by HaydenHohns

The solos are dreadful IMO, I would cut out the section labelled Ebow solo


I just want to clarify before you go ahead with that opinion, are you familiar with the Ebow? Guitar Pro really can't accurately create the incredibly varied sounds that one can make. I'm just saying, we're not quite hearing it as intended.
#19
Quote by HaydenHohns
the phrasing that starts at ~5:40 happens at the end of the progression that then continues into the next measure/phrase (5:42)
Just an opinion, don't take me that seriously

well did you think that maybe my physical abilities arent quite at that level yet?
#20
@Macabre_Turtle: I just looked up an Ebow and they're cool but it doesn't change the fact that I find that section directionless. I probably should have mentioned that.

@pAWNlol: At no point did I say play Dream Theater, your technical skills are fine if you can play what you tab. Not only that, but someone with lesser skills than that would be able to employ the same phrasing ideas and techniques and be able to play it. The point of my previous post is that your phrasing is really broken up. Your phrasing needs to flow into the next bar, not stop every 1, 2, 3 or 4 bars.

Yeah I was talking about the score.
#21
still hayden, i dont have as much time to practice as id like, so having a continuous 32nd note lick is a little hard for me at the moment. i try my best because the whole "start and stop" thing bugs me too, but theres only so much i can do right now

also, about the score:
1) i write via the tablature part, so it does the score automatically, including which direction the stems point, and the accidentals
2) i dont know how to edit the score on Tux, nor do i care, since i can do all my writing without ever touching it
3) its in A minor! what on earth would be wrong with it? except for my chromaticism and raised leading tones, there should be absolutely no accidentals
#22
Quote by pAWNlol
still hayden, i dont have as much time to practice as id like, so having a continuous 32nd note lick is a little hard for me at the moment. i try my best because the whole "start and stop" thing bugs me too, but theres only so much i can do right now

also, about the score:
1) i write via the tablature part, so it does the score automatically, including which direction the stems point, and the accidentals
2) i dont know how to edit the score on Tux, nor do i care, since i can do all my writing without ever touching it
3) its in A minor! what on earth would be wrong with it? except for my chromaticism and raised leading tones, there should be absolutely no accidentals


Yeah, it's cool and fair if you don't like the solos, but assuming that somebody doesn't know much theory because they don't correct the scores in their Guitar Pro files is nonsense. I don't even have Guitar Pro set to show me the score. It's not exactly a precise awesome program for making scores. It's for tabs.
#23
thank you macabe lol even still, i dont know whats wrong with the score? it is A minor after all, so there really shouldnt be any accidentals until the second part of the solo
#24
@pAWNlol: That's OK, just practise over and over. Also, I wasn't referring to the key. To say that playing out of key is bad music theory is very wrong, Debussy and Schoenberg completely destroyed tonal music but they most certainly were educated in theory. Rather the problems with the score is the rests and incomplete bars in some tracks. Furthermore, I only said "suggests", I didn't say you were incompetent. Everyone needs to chill right now.
Last edited by HaydenHohns at Dec 10, 2013,
#25
Quote by HaydenHohns
@pAWNlol: That's OK, just practise over and over. Also, I wasn't referring to the key. To say that playing out of key is bad music theory is very wrong, Debussy and Schoenberg completely destroyed tonal music but they most certainly were educated theory. Rather the problems with the score is the rests and incomplete bars in some tracks. Furthermore, I only said "suggests", I didn't say you were incompetent. Everyone needs to chill right now.


He wasn't thinking you meant that he used out of key notes. He was thinking you meant notes weren't labelled correctly in the notation. Perhaps there's no key signatures, or notes labelled wrong enharmonically. I didn't look at the notation myself, but that's what I was getting out of this conversation.
#26
Quote by Macabre_Turtle
He wasn't thinking you meant that he used out of key notes. He was thinking you meant notes weren't labelled correctly in the notation. Perhaps there's no key signatures, or notes labelled wrong enharmonically. I didn't look at the notation myself, but that's what I was getting out of this conversation.

again, macabe seeming to understand things a lot better

also, hayden, as for the rests: thats just my laziness. im sure itll bug me enough to change them later on, as they usually do. but for now, i just dont care enough

whether a measure with just one 8th note in it is followed by 7 8th note rests, or a double dotted half note, makes no difference to the sound. but of course, the music theorist in me will eventually change that. hell, i once went through another one of my songs and changed all the 4/4 measures to 8/8
Last edited by pAWNlol at Dec 10, 2013,
#27
I've actually noticed that Guitar Pro 5 does it wrong in terms of key signatures and I know you're using Tux Guitar so I'm lenient in that respect since it's similar. If you did it in say Sibelius, it should be perfect. Especially with the amount of stuffing around you do in that program to get it right. I have it and I spend an extra day making sure my score looks absolutely perfect.
#28
sibelius? never heard of it. but yeah, if youre in a key with any accidentals (so, anything other than C major or A minor) theres a great chance itll give you a crappy and totally inaccurate score, even if you go to the guitar icon and change the key

let me tell you, the scores for my songs in C# or Bb minor are atrocious lol
#29
Even if they are, there's a good chance it's TG/GP5 that's wrong. For example, put a song in D minor and place a C# in there and it'll notate a Db, which is incorrect. It's wrong to double up on notes even if they are enharmonic. I think the only situation that would be allowed to do this is when using the chromatic scale, although don't trust me on that last one.

Sibelius is a music notation software aimed more at Jazz/Western Art Music.
#30
oh believe me, it is the program not me. no matter what key you write in, it writes it in the score as if it were in A minor/C major

and ill have to check it out. is it free?
#32
well then i think ill stick with tux guitar for now lol


also guys, i finally finished the song if you want to check it out and let me know what you think