fiqister
Registered User
Join date: May 2011
43 IQ
#1
I am having problems with mixing my vocals to sit it up in the mix.
Here's a link of what i've produced by far. Vocals are panned left 48 right 48, and are in two tracks. I've applied compressions, eqs everything but its not just setting up in the mix... Any help should be appreciated. thanks...

Link:
http://www.2shared.com/audio/2NbX9wNU/1_online.html
FaceFive
Registered User
Join date: Sep 2010
461 IQ
#2
That's not the only thing you're having problems with in the mix...
Spambot_2
UG's rum aficionado
Join date: Jan 2013
1,824 IQ
#3
^ there's really no use in that unless you tell him what to do to get it better.

If ya ask me it sounds bad but it's not mixed that bad apart from the voice.
Raise it, or even better lower the rest, raise the high-mids, use a lot less reverb, use just one voice track and use the way you prefer to spread it.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
fiqister
Registered User
Join date: May 2011
43 IQ
#4
If i raise the high mids, i get a very whispery sound from my vocals. And also if i use one vocal track, the volume has lesser volume than the actual mix.
fiqister
Registered User
Join date: May 2011
43 IQ
#7
thanks i just heard that and yes it quite fits the song, but still the vocals are not sitting on the top. Yes, the volume of the vocals were very low, my apologies. you raised the eq on the whole master track?
FaceFive
Registered User
Join date: Sep 2010
461 IQ
#8
5db dip at about 2k and a boost about 470 about 2 or 3 db,

Try using less reverb and use delay for effect, it will bring the vocals in front
xxdarrenxx
UG Fanatic
Join date: Jan 2006
1,654 IQ
#9
You mentioned compressors, but have you tried a vocal sidechain to the rest?

It's used to duck a track when vocals come in, but can be used with way more subtle att/release and tresholds to get a mixing effect.

You could sidechain the entire track as one group to work with the vocals, or just the instrument(s) that share frequencies with the vocals.

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jan 11, 2014,
fiqister
Registered User
Join date: May 2011
43 IQ
#10
Allright, thanks for all the suggestion people. Ill try mixing it up, and then upload it to get reviewed by you people. I am a beginner when it comes to metal production therefore having a lot of difficulties. Another question, should i center pan the vocals? Is it a basic rule to center pan the vocals?
Spambot_2
UG's rum aficionado
Join date: Jan 2013
1,824 IQ
#11
No basic rule, but generally they are center panned if you're using only one track.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
tim_mop
Registered User
Join date: Dec 2005
1,688 IQ
#12
You need to make some space for the vocals in the mix. Currently the guitars are huge, which is cool but they are taking over the whole of the mix. Roll off some of the low end in the guitars to clear up the bass, and dip them a bit in the low mids where the voice is. Try boosting the low mid in the vocals as well, they are sounding a bit thin at the moment.

With this sort of genre I'd be aiming for a close vocal sound with very little reverb/delay, so less of the plate sound I reckon. I'd say try using just one centre-panned vocal track for the verses (at least) as well.
fiqister
Registered User
Join date: May 2011
43 IQ
#13
Okay so i've mixed this one too, i've used no reverb delay on this but it turns out the recorded vocals themselves have a room reverb. I've majorly used some presets for this mix, including eq presets and multiband presets. For me, vocal mixing is turning out to be the toughest job ever... Thankyou all for the replies, its really helping me out.

Link:
http://www.2shared.com/audio/a8aMDMKM/2_online.html
tim_mop
Registered User
Join date: Dec 2005
1,688 IQ
#16
The last full mix ("3") was much better I thought. Vocals could be a tiny bit quieter but aside from that they sit quite well.

The solo vocal track is not great, it's good that you've managed to mix them in pretty well given the quality. If you can, I'd say rerecord them in a mock vocal booth (the way I used to do this was open the doors of a wardrobe and drape a duvet over it to make three sort of walls. It's obviously not ideal but might help.

What mic were you using?
fiqister
Registered User
Join date: May 2011
43 IQ
#17
Quote by tim_mop
The last full mix ("3") was much better I thought. Vocals could be a tiny bit quieter but aside from that they sit quite well.

The solo vocal track is not great, it's good that you've managed to mix them in pretty well given the quality. If you can, I'd say rerecord them in a mock vocal booth (the way I used to do this was open the doors of a wardrobe and drape a duvet over it to make three sort of walls. It's obviously not ideal but might help.

What mic were you using?


Firstly, thanks mop for replying and actually appreciating the hard work m putting into this track! i am using shure sm 58. So yeah, i read your advice and have recorded the vocals now in a mockish vocal booth, and obviously it literally killed all the room reverb i was having. The link to the mix:

http://www.2shared.com/audio/KvhEmNsY/1-Newzz.html
tim_mop
Registered User
Join date: Dec 2005
1,688 IQ
#18
To be honest, I preferred mix 3 to that one! The vocals are now nice and dry but they are quite boomy and don't cut through very well. You could try two things:

- cutting low mids and boosting HF (200Hz cut, 4-8kHz boost might be somewhere to start) (generally if I'm not getting results I want after cutting more than 6-9dB then it's time to go back a step)

- rerecording vocals once more, in booth, but singing/screaming further away from the mic. Now you're in the booth you don't have to be right in the grill to get maximum voice/reverb ration. Being a bit further away (10-20cm) will lessen the proximity effect on the mic and make it less boomy.


Don't give up, this is the best part of recording - continually striving for improvement and the best sound possible. Your results have been decent so far and with a little more time and effort I think you'll have a sweet recording on your hands!
Last edited by tim_mop at Jan 15, 2014,
Rickholly74
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2014
1,258 IQ
#19
EQ the vocal track alone till you are happy with the vocal. If you are doing this on a computer or a DAR that shows you a wave of the vocal track, look at the vocal track by itself. See where the peaks and meat of the vocal frequency wise then play your music tracks without the vocal. Find the frequencies where the music is at the same or higher than the places where the vocal is and EQ your instruments so you attenuate (lower) any frequency that are the same as the main part of the vocal. You only need yo do this a little. It shouldn't need to come down more than just 2-3 db. This will create a "notch" where your vocal will sit in the mix and not be overtaken by the other instruments. I like the music on the track but I don't understand one word of the vocal (not to be a wise ass but I'm not even sure what language this is) but that's why they make chocolate and vanilla. This "notch" idea may bring out more of the vocal. Good luck with it.
tim_mop
Registered User
Join date: Dec 2005
1,688 IQ
#20
I think what Rick means is (DAW, and) find a spectral analyser to look at the predominant vocal frequencies. Logic has one joined with the EQ, if you're not on Logic I think there's a free VST called VoxengoSpan or something like that.
Rickholly74
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2014
1,258 IQ
#21
Thanks Tim. You're right. DAW not DAR. I don't think the Daughter's of the American Revolution would be helpful in this situation. Thanks for the info on Voxengo at voxengo.com. Looks like quite a lot of nice free VST stuff. The Voxengo Span looks like it would be perfect for what I was talking about.
Rickholly74
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2014
1,258 IQ
#22
Getting the vocals to sit in a mix is a regular issue with a lot of recording engineers. I have watched videos, read articles and pulled my hair out (oh, that's where it went) over this issue. The frustrating thing is that each musician or singer has a different take on how much "out front" they want the vocal. Just when I think it's perfect, my musical partner wants it more out front while I like it seated in the mix, more in line with the music. I have done sessions where the vocalist wants it practically buried in the mix. Often it comes down to opinion. Even the best engineers have this problem. According to Geoff Emerick (Beatles recording engineer) John Lennon always wanted to radically change the sound of his voice with delays, reverbs, slowed down tapes or running it through an organ Leslie, anything to change it. One the greatest rock vocalists ever and he wanted to bury his voice in the music.
Cavalcade
razor sharp
Join date: Jul 2011
1,942 IQ
#23
The problem might not necessarily be the vocals, but everything else not having enough room for them. The power of the vocals comes from the low mids, from maybe 200 to 600. Most metal producers will cut a chunk out of the guitars, usually centered somewhere from 300 to 500, to give the vocals some room, and you can see that in a spectrogram.
xxdarrenxx
UG Fanatic
Join date: Jan 2006
1,654 IQ
#24
Imo the most important thing with vocals is to get a good take.

People rather hear a less good vocal mix than a bad take.

Well not rather, but music essentially is getting attention, and then getting a message or feels across, and this is largely determined in the take.

If you can't get the sound to work in the mix and you feel you've done all, you should not rule out the possibility that the take might not be good.

I have heard raw takes of hit singers, and audio-technically I would redo some of I heard. Yet they went on as final take and sold 500million copies.

Basic deduction shows us how important the take is, more so then the technicalities.

Tldr;
Don't rule out the take especially with vocals.

The "Re-incarnation of Plato" Award 2009
(most intelligent)
The "Good Samaritan" Award 2009 (most helpful)

[font="Palatino Linotype
Who's Andy Timmons??
Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Jan 15, 2014,
tim_mop
Registered User
Join date: Dec 2005
1,688 IQ
#25
^ absolutely agree. To take it further, if it doesn't sound right when you're tracking, you're not going to make it sound right. Get it right at the source and mixing is easy!!
Rickholly74
Registered User
Join date: Jan 2014
1,258 IQ
#26
Tim, you are correct about getting it right first. If it isn't almost exactly what you want to hear no mixing magic will help. Do it again and again if necessary. It's also a time waster. My partner (who is an excellent singer) will record a vocal track and say that it sounds good, it's what she wanted and we can move on. Days later when I mix and master that track she wants to re-do the vocal or at least parts of it. After spending what could be a few hours mixing and mastering it's really frustrating to want to go back to re-cut a new vocal track and start all over with the mixing and mastering. Get it right on the raw track 1st. Make sure it sounds good with no effects. FX and compression will not make a bad vocal good and I find it very hard to drop in a new vocal section on another day when the whole feel and timber of the person's voice will be different.
fiqister
Registered User
Join date: May 2011
43 IQ
#27
Thanks alot for all of the great advices! Sorry for the late reply! I'll be applying the techniques mentioned and upload the song!