ThePIGI_King
I'm Lovin' It
Join date: Jan 2014
279 IQ
#1
Hi all, I had a question about tone and pedals. I've searched the search bar function multiple times with different key words but haven't found my answer yet. Right now I'm on the market for a distortion pedal mainly.
Tone I am looking for - August Burns Red (Mainly the tone from Messengers or Constellations)
Set-up - A Schecter Hellraiser and a Line 6 Spider III
Budget - Money for me is pretty tight, hence my amp, but I'm not in any rush to get this. Pedal wise, I'd like to stay around $100 (if at all possible)

I've seen multiple people ask these questions and get told to get higher end amps, but amps tend to be a lot pricier than a pedal. If you know of a good amp for around $200 (used is fine), I am up for that advice too. I have a Guitar Center about an hour away from me that I can visit semi-regularly to try out any of the pedals Thanks in advance,

PIGI
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Taz9
Registered User
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#2
Why don't you just set it on "Metal" and adjust drive? I doubt any pedal will improve your tone.
Cajundaddy
60s throwback
Join date: Feb 2014
32 IQ
#3
Pedals into a Spider are just awful. Forgetaboutit.

If you want better guitar tone and you can't find it in your current amp, trade up your amp or use amp sims available to your smartphone or laptop.

Vox Valvetronix, Peavey Vypyr, Roland Cube, and Pod are all low cost solutions that are infinitely better than a Spider IMO.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis
loki_lulamen
UG's Sound Guy
Join date: Jan 2006
862 IQ
#4
New amp!

Vypyr tube 60 or a 6505+

/thread
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Offworld92
One among the fence.
Join date: Nov 2009
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#5
Your amp is the final stage in your chain. A pedal won't just magically make your amp good - that's why people say get a new amp. Even if you have a boutique $300 distortion pedal, it still won't sound great coming out of your subpar speaker and amp.

Secondly, you actually do need to spend a lot of money on a pedal to do those tones. Getting good modern metal tones out of a pedal is almost an exercise in futility. Very very few can get anything usable - to the point that you're simply a lot better off getting a good amp. Because there are amps out there that are very cheap that sound fantastic, such as the Peavey Vypyr Tube 60 or the Peavey 6505+ 112 (which can easily be had used for $250 & $350, respectively).
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

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Linkerman
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#6
Spending money on a distortion pedal to throw in front of a Line 6 Spider is a waste of money. Not only because the amp is pretty awful, but also because it doesn't take pedals well.
As it has already been pointed out, you're better off using the on-board "Metal" mode of the Spider. Using a distortion pedal won't improve your tone considerably.


Save those $200, wait to save some more, and keep an eye out for an used Peavey 6505+ 112 combo in your area. It's a great amp for the August Burns Red tone you're looking for.
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ThePIGI_King
I'm Lovin' It
Join date: Jan 2014
279 IQ
#7
@Taz9 - I have been using the metal function, and I've played around a lot with the drive and everything but it just doesn't pack enough punch.

@Linkerman and Offworld92 - I've been looking at the 6505+, but it's nearly as expensive as my guitar! But it's also what ABR uses, so I assume if I save for it, I'll get a good tone that'll be semi-close to theirs. Thanks for the advice.

Edit: It just crossed my mind that I run audio through a Harbinger HA120Watt PA System that I have. I know getting a new amp is better, and I plan to save for one, but would a pedal through the HA120 sound fine if I decided to sell my amps to help save for the 6505+?
2014 Ibanez RG8
2013 Schecter Hellraiser
1999 Schecter Revenger 7
2007 LTD 'Monster' F
B.C. Rich KK Warlock
No-Name Acoustic
Last edited by ThePIGI_King at Sep 1, 2014,
Robbgnarly
Tab Contributor
Join date: Feb 2011
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#8
If you look used a Guitar centers used site, you can get the 6505+ 1x12 for $350 or less. Here is one for $350
www.guitarcenter.com/Peavey-Used-Peavey-6505-Plus-1X12-60W-Tube-Guitar-Combo-Amp-110497964-i3911446.gc
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Linkerman
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#9
Quote by ThePIGI_King
I've been looking at the 6505+, but it's nearly as expensive as my guitar!

On that topic, let me point out that:
  • a nice guitar through a bad amp will sound bad;
  • a nice guitar through a great amp will sound great.



I'd rather spend much money on an expensive but awesome amp and have a mid-level guitar, than to have a fantastic top-of-the-line guitar and a mediocre amp.

The amp is easily around 80% of your tone.


Also, this:
Quote by Robbgnarly
If you look used a Guitar centers used site, you can get the 6505+ 1x12 for $350 or less. Here is one for $350
www.guitarcenter.com/Peavey-Used-Peavey-6505-Plus-1X12-60W-Tube-Guitar-Combo-Amp-110497964-i3911446.gc

If you buy used from a big store, it's cheaper than buying brand-new and you can get warranty as well.


Quote by ThePIGI_King
Edit: It just crossed my mind that I run audio through a Harbinger HA120Watt PA System that I have. I know getting a new amp is better, and I plan to save for one, but would a pedal through the HA120 sound fine if I decided to sell my amps to help save for the 6505+?

No.
Just keep practicing with your Spider while you save up for the 6505+.
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Last edited by Linkerman at Sep 1, 2014,
loki_lulamen
UG's Sound Guy
Join date: Jan 2006
862 IQ
#10
Quote by ThePIGI_King
but would a pedal through the HA120 sound fine?


It probably wouldn't as most likely you have full range speaker for it therefore you would not get a great tone out of it.

honestly the peavey that Robbgnarly suggested is your best bet.
My Rig:
Maverick F-1, Ibanez RG1527, Schecter Omen 8
Marshall JVM 410H,
Hand built 4x12 w/ V30s
Current board:
PXL LIVE
TU2
WHAMMY IV
MXR M132
MXR M101
TIMMY
NS2
MXR M108
XOTIC EP
TC DREAMSCAPE
DL8
Robbgnarly
Tab Contributor
Join date: Feb 2011
1,177 IQ
#11
Quote by ThePIGI_King

Edit: It just crossed my mind that I run audio through a Harbinger HA120Watt PA System that I have. I know getting a new amp is better, and I plan to save for one, but would a pedal through the HA120 sound fine if I decided to sell my amps to help save for the 6505+?

If you went for something like a Line 6 POD XT live it would work and sound decent (much better than your spider). There are Rectifier and Soldano SLO amp models that will probably work for you. They run ~$100 used for the XT live and $65 for the XT bean
on ebay.
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Dave_Mc
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#12
Quote by ThePIGI_King
I've been looking at the 6505+, but it's nearly as expensive as my guitar!


that's a bit like saying my car engine costs as much as its seats, surely?
Quote by classicrocker01
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Cajundaddy
60s throwback
Join date: Feb 2014
32 IQ
#14
A Pod through your PA is a good option. The tone you want is in there and you can plug it into any monitor or stereo and get decent results. I still prefer a good amp live but in a pinch this will be much better than trying to squeeze good tone out of a Spider.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis
ThePIGI_King
I'm Lovin' It
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#15
Quote by Dave_Mc
that's a bit like saying my car engine costs as much as its seats, surely?


A brand new 6505+ 112 is ~$600. My guitar was $800 New. So unless your car seats are really fancy, than I highly doubt it

But I think I will take all your advice and save up for the 6505+. Thanks everyone, now I know I'm not wasting money on things.
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Robbgnarly
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#16
Quote by ThePIGI_King
A brand new 6505+ 112 is ~$600. My guitar was $800 New. So unless your car seats are really fancy, than I highly doubt it

But I think I will take all your advice and save up for the 6505+. Thanks everyone, now I know I'm not wasting money on things.

A used 6505+ combo is $350
In the world of guitars an $800 guitar or amp is really not very expensive
2002 PRS CE22
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Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
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KailM
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2011
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#17
Actually, I think it's far more common (and appropriate) to spend more on your amp than your guitar. As long as your guitar feels and plays well and has decent pickups, the amp will make by far more difference than shelling out another $1500+ for a high-end guitar.

I can make even a very cheap guitar sound good through my rig, but I can't make a high-end guitar sound very good through a crappy practice amp.
ThePIGI_King
I'm Lovin' It
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279 IQ
#18
@ Robbgnarly - $800 for a teen that has to save the majority of everything he earns for college is a lot. $350 for an amp that has as good of reviews as the 6505+ isn't bad though.
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Carrot
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#19
If i spent the money i did on guitars when i should of spent on my amp, id be sitting next to a mesa boogie dual rec and a orange rockerverb100. Cab would still be the same though aha.

Id still have my LTD and PRS but yeah.
Amp first then pretty guitars.
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#20
Quote by ThePIGI_King
@ Robbgnarly - $800 for a teen that has to save the majority of everything he earns for college is a lot. $350 for an amp that has as good of reviews as the 6505+ isn't bad though.

Oh I completely understand, I was just saying that in the world of guitar that is not an extreme price at all.

If you can somehow scrape $500 up you can get a USA made Peavey 5150 2x12 combo which is way better than the 1x12
www.guitarcenter.com/-i3914939.gc
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ThePIGI_King
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#21
Quote by Robbgnarly
If you can somehow scrape $500 up you can get a USA made Peavey 5150 2x12 combo which is way better than the 1x12
www.guitarcenter.com/-i3914939.gc


Do you mind explaining how it's "better"? As of now, I don't have a band...the only thing I'm looking for in an amp is the sound right now. I don't know much about tone, what gets what sound, and what's better yet (new to it all other than playing). What is the main difference between the 5150 and the 6505+ besides the 2x12 vs. the 1x12? Thanks in advance.
2014 Ibanez RG8
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bassmastamitch
Isn't good at bass
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#22
The 6505 and 5150 are the exact same thing. The 6505+ and 5150II have the addition of a preamp tube and separate EQs for each channel, but the difference there is tiny compared to the normal versions. In short:
5150 = 6505
5150II = 6505+

I own the 6505 2x12 combo and even though I love how mine sounds, I would not recommend it. For one, it's stupidly heavy, at least 80 pounds. But the main reason is that the stock speakers are really really muddy. Same goes for the 1x12 version, but with that at least you only have to replace one speaker
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#23
Quote by ThePIGI_King
Do you mind explaining how it's "better"? As of now, I don't have a band...the only thing I'm looking for in an amp is the sound right now. I don't know much about tone, what gets what sound, and what's better yet (new to it all other than playing). What is the main difference between the 5150 and the 6505+ besides the 2x12 vs. the 1x12? Thanks in advance.

If your playing at home, the 6505+ 1x12 will be absolutely fine, the 5150 2x12 would be better suited if you were in a band
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#25
Mitch, thanks for the feedback! Seeing how both are used, and the 5150 is $150 more, I think I'll stick to saving for the 6505+ unless somebody can really give me a reason otherwise. I'm still waiting to know why the 5150 is "better" than the 6505+, or if he just meant the dual speakers are better. From what I understand, the main difference between the 6505 and the + model is that the + has a cleaner clean channel. So my question is, why is the less clean 5150/6505 more expensive than the 6505+? Thanks.

EDIT: Wow, I took so long to word this and get my grammar correct that people posted...disregard some of my questions than Thanks again guys for all your help. Now I start the long task of trying to save the money for the amp. My last (hopefully) question is, when/if I can get the 6505+, do you think I should sell my Spider? Or should I keep it as a backup practice amp?
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Last edited by ThePIGI_King at Sep 1, 2014,
Robbgnarly
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#26
It is always nice to have a backup amp, just in case something goes wrong. or to have a grab n go amp if your jamming with others. The 1x12 6505+ is still a pretty large and heavy combo and your spider (unless it is the 2x12 or 2x10 version will be smaller and lighter.
2002 PRS CE22
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Last edited by Robbgnarly at Sep 1, 2014,
bassmastamitch
Isn't good at bass
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#27
Quote by ThePIGI_King
I'm still waiting to know why the 5150 is "better" than the 6505+, or if he just meant the dual speakers are better.

Yeah, he was saying the 2x12 would be better for a band setting because it's ridiculously loud.
Quote by ThePIGI_King
From what I understand, the main difference between the 6505 and the + model is that the + has a cleaner clean channel. So my question is, why is the less clean 5150/6505 more expensive than the 6505+? Thanks.

I described the differences between the + and standard models above, and those are the only differences AFAIK. The only way you would have a cleaner clean channel on a 6505 is if you moved to the head versions, which are 120 watts instead of the 60 watts the combos have.

6505+ = 1x12
6505 = 2x12

Both combos are 60 watts, but the standard 6505 is more expensive because it's a 2x12. The 1x12 has more features, yes, but that doesn't outweigh a second speaker.
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#28
^ The 2x12 5150/6505 are also made in the USA with better quality components which is why I said it is way better.
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ThePIGI_King
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#29
Alright, I think I understand now. Thanks everyone, I will now start saving for the +. All my questions have been answered, thanks for pointing me in the correct direction regarding tone. It's always great to learn something.
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#30
Quote by ThePIGI_King
Alright, I think I understand now. Thanks everyone, I will now start saving for the +. All my questions have been answered, thanks for pointing me in the correct direction regarding tone. It's always great to learn something.

Offworld92
One among the fence.
Join date: Nov 2009
7,563 IQ
#31
Quote by Robbgnarly
^ The 2x12 5150/6505 are also made in the USA with better quality components which is why I said it is way better.


+1

Quote by bassmastamitch

I own the 6505 2x12 combo and even though I love how mine sounds, I would not recommend it. For one, it's stupidly heavy, at least 80 pounds. But the main reason is that the stock speakers are really really muddy. Same goes for the 1x12 version, but with that at least you only have to replace one speaker


+311

Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
Rickholly74
Registered User
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#32
I'd say it largely depends on what you are using the amp for. Is it live gigs, jamming with friends, learning to play or just playing at home? If it's just playing at home or leaning to play a larger amp may not be a good idea at all and if finances for college are a consideration who in your family is going to get pissed when you come home with a new amp?
Dave_Mc
Chirp and Swirl
Join date: Mar 2005
2,967 IQ
#33
Quote by ThePIGI_King
A brand new 6505+ 112 is ~$600. My guitar was $800 New. So unless your car seats are really fancy, than I highly doubt it


that's what i meant. if someone said they wouldn't spend as much on their car engine as on their seats you'd think they were crazy.

not necessarily the best analogy of all time, the guitar is far more important than the car seats- it was just a very rough illustration,
Quote by classicrocker01
Only on UG would I say I got engaged and bought a jet city and get congratulated on the amp


AWACS
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#34
TS, I had enough money to buy whatever I want (been working full time for 3 years, and haven't gone to school yet) and from the knowledgeable guys at GG&A, I looked into, and bought (read: financed) a Mesa Boogie Mark V. It is everything I really need at this point in time, and I know the amp is quality and will most likely outlast me. I could've easily have done the same thing with a PRS or Gibson, but they wouldn't have made nearly as much of a difference to my sound when compared to a new amp.

The guitar is more for you, whereas an amp is more for the band and your audience.
Caution:
This post may contain my opinion and/or inaccurate information.

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Clarkinator
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#35
If you are set on the 6505, there is one on ebay right now starting at $250

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Peavey-6505-112-Guitar-Amp-Combo-/171435960544?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ea6128e0

Just to give you an idea - you can usually find fairly common amps used for a darn good price, especially if you are willing to wait a few months for a hot deal. I made the mistake in the past of nabbing nice pedals to pair with a crappy amp. It was like putting a bandaid on severed limb. It'll be worth it to save up and nab a good amp that you can play on for years! And once you get a good amp, if you want to nab some pedals you can always find good deals on used pedals online. Half my pedalboard is made up of used pedals I bought at nearly half of their new price (in good condition too).
Linkerman
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#36
Quote by AWACS
The guitar is more for you, whereas an amp is more for the band and your audience.

I think both are equally "for you" (and none is "for the band and your audience"), but different aspects matter.

With the guitar, it has to be comfortable, the neck has to feel perfect to your hands, it just has to be the right guitar for you.
The price tag is irrelevant -- if the guitar you really enjoy playing is a cheap, entry-level guitar, it can be upgraded with good hardware. Especially nowadays, when there's easy access to budget hardware of great quality.

With the amp, it has to deliver the sound you want. The amp represents the majority of what constitutes your tone, so I'd argue it's the most important part of your signal chain.
And it's still all "for you", since you care more about your own tone than anyone else.

99% of people in the audience won't even know the tone difference between a Fender Twin modulation on a 150€ multi-fx unit and a 1.500€ Fender Twin. But that matters to you.

I can also tell you that my bandmates don't care what equipment I'm using, as long as it doesn't sound really bad. But I care.


And since you're the one who'll be listening at all times what comes from your amp (at home, during band practice, during gigs -- the common denominator is you), you better have an amp with a tone that you truly enjoy.
It just sucks that many times the amp that has a tone that completely satisfies us is expensive.

So, spending money on an expensive amp whose tone you really love is completely justified IMHO. And it's definitely "for you", since everyone else couldn't care less if you're using a cheap modelling amp or an expensive, high-end tube amp.
Squier "VMC" Stratocaster
PRS SE Singlecut
tc electronic polytune
CMAT MODS Signa Drive
Blakemore Effects Deus Ex Machina
DIY gaussmarkov Dr. Boogey
EHX Small Clone
Mooer ShimVerb
DIY Beavis Devolt
T-REX Fuel Tank Chameleon
Ampeg GVT52-112
Last edited by Linkerman at Sep 3, 2014,