#1
Like in musical instrument stores, where the guy at the counter acts like he knows everything, and in fact half of what he says is bullshit.

Or maybe he is very polite, but he still spreads bullshit.

Say this guy tells you something that you know is plain wrong when talking about gear.
What should you do in this case?

Now, say this same guy tells something plain wrong to another (clueless, naive) customer.
What should you do in this case instead?
Name's Luca.

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#4
Let him do his job because odds are, if he's in a music store, he needs that sale to eat.

You will look like a jackass if you be that guy. Alternatively, just apply for a job there if you feel that knowledgeable and need a part time job.

Source: former music store employee
#5
Quote by JackWhiteIsButts
Cats


you need a new agenda

Quote by Shotgunmerc
Let him do his job because odds are, if he's in a music store, he needs that sale to eat.

You will look like a jackass if you be that guy. Alternatively, just apply for a job there if you feel that knowledgeable and need a part time job.

Source: former music store employee


so your one of those bullshit talkers I take it?

I wouldn't rub it in the guys face, but giving false info to a client is just plain wrong, and I for one would walk up to the client outside the store and tell him whats up.
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Last edited by BjarnedeGraaf at Sep 3, 2014,
#6
Quote by BjarnedeGraaf
you need a new agenda

LONG ago, the mice had a general council to consider what measures they could take to outwit their common enemy, the Cat. Some said this, and some said that; but at last a young mouse got up and said he had a proposal to make, which he thought would meet the case. “You will all agree,” said he, “that our chief danger consists in the sly and treacherous manner in which the enemy approaches us. Now, if we could receive some signal of her approach, we could easily escape from her. I venture, therefore, to propose that a small bell be procured, and attached by a ribbon round the neck of the Cat. By this means we should always know when she was about, and could easily retire while she was in the neighbourhood.” 1
This proposal met with general applause, until an old mouse got up and said: “That is all very well, but who is to bell the Cat?” The mice looked at one another and nobody spoke. Then the old mouse said:
“it is easy to propose impossible remedies.”
#7
Quote by JackWhiteIsButts
LONG ago, the mice had a general council to consider what measures they could take to outwit their common enemy, the Cat. Some said this, and some said that; but at last a young mouse got up and said he had a proposal to make, which he thought would meet the case. “You will all agree,” said he, “that our chief danger consists in the sly and treacherous manner in which the enemy approaches us. Now, if we could receive some signal of her approach, we could easily escape from her. I venture, therefore, to propose that a small bell be procured, and attached by a ribbon round the neck of the Cat. By this means we should always know when she was about, and could easily retire while she was in the neighbourhood.” 1
This proposal met with general applause, until an old mouse got up and said: “That is all very well, but who is to bell the Cat?” The mice looked at one another and nobody spoke. Then the old mouse said:
“it is easy to propose impossible remedies.”


just wtf
My Soundcloud

My beginner rig:

Epiphone Goth G-400 SG
Line 6 Spider IV (Don't judge me, I was young and stupid)
Stagg SW203N
Yamaha APX500
#8
Quote by JackWhiteIsButts
LONG ago, the mice had a general council to consider what measures they could take to outwit their common enemy, the Cat. Some said this, and some said that; but at last a young mouse got up and said he had a proposal to make, which he thought would meet the case. “You will all agree,” said he, “that our chief danger consists in the sly and treacherous manner in which the enemy approaches us. Now, if we could receive some signal of her approach, we could easily escape from her. I venture, therefore, to propose that a small bell be procured, and attached by a ribbon round the neck of the Cat. By this means we should always know when she was about, and could easily retire while she was in the neighbourhood.” 1
This proposal met with general applause, until an old mouse got up and said: “That is all very well, but who is to bell the Cat?” The mice looked at one another and nobody spoke. Then the old mouse said:
“it is easy to propose impossible remedies.”

Please write a novel. I want to buy your novel.
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Last edited by ultimate-slash at Sep 3, 2014,
#10
I am so proud of you Butts. Keep on


anyway, based on my experiences, I believe that less than 1% of people who work at makeup counters are actually qualified to advise customers. I usually let them talk about whatever it is and listen politely and then buy something completely different so they feel lost and confused and alienated from society or something
cat
#11
Well it's your fault for needing to ask a store clerk anything. They are paid to sell things not be walking google.com.
#12
^ I don't even need to ask, a lot of them feel like dispensing their infinite knowledge over everyone in the store, maybe when they ask info about something completely different or when they just see you looking around.

Or you might hear them telling bullshit to other people who did ask for help because of their own cluelessness.
Name's Luca.

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I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
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#13
Quote by Shotgunmerc
Let him do his job because odds are, if he's in a music store, he needs that sale to eat.

You will look like a jackass if you be that guy. Alternatively, just apply for a job there if you feel that knowledgeable and need a part time job.

Source: former music store employee

People need to work to buy food everywhere, scoot. That doesn't give them the excuse to not do their job properly by spreading false information.
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Sep 3, 2014,
#14
Quote by Shotgunmerc
Let him do his job because odds are, if he's in a music store, he needs that sale to eat.

You will look like a jackass if you be that guy. Alternatively, just apply for a job there if you feel that knowledgeable and need a part time job.

Source: former music store employee



His job is to know the products the store is selling. If anything the employee should feel like a jackass. If I'm buying a car and the salesman doesn't know anything about it, I'd consider that a huge problem.
Last edited by badfish_lewis at Sep 3, 2014,
#15
Quote by guitarxo
I am so proud of you Butts. Keep on


anyway, based on my experiences, I believe that less than 1% of people who work at makeup counters are actually qualified to advise customers. I usually let them talk about whatever it is and listen politely and then buy something completely different so they feel lost and confused and alienated from society or something


Yes, makeup stores are terrible. They always seem to chose a color that is way off. And then I look orange...
"Being honest may not get you a lot of friends, but it'll always get you the right ones."
#16
Quote by songbird64
Yes, makeup stores are terrible. They always seem to chose a color that is way off. And then I look orange...

I have the opposite problem, they always make me look ghostly. Now whenever I go past a makeup store I go in and try a little of everything so I can see what it looks like at home and then when I actually go there to buy stuff I can just go straight in pick up whatever it is and buy it without having to talk to anyone. One time I put my finger in a tub of cream eyeshadow and a huge chunk got stuck on my finger so I just brought it home and used it for a few weeks.
cat
#17
Quote by BjarnedeGraaf
so your one of those bullshit talkers I take it?

I wouldn't rub it in the guys face, but giving false info to a client is just plain wrong, and I for one would walk up to the client outside the store and tell him whats up.


When I worked for the music store, I had at least elementary knowledge of everything I'm selling. Vandoren Clarinet reeds? Never used one in my life, I could sell them. Trumpet mouthpieces? Can't use them, can't demonstrate them, can sell them. Did I bullshit my way through a ton of sales? You betcha. I NEVER sold anything that was inherently wrong, but I certainly uped the price on a ton of sales by adding accessories because that was my job. I certainly didn't know the ins and outs of everything, but I knew enough.

Does that make me a bad person? Meh. Does that make me a bullshitter? In context, sure.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
People need to work to buy food everywhere, scoot. That doesn't give them the excuse to not do their job properly by spreading false information.


Quote by badfish_lewis
His job is to know the products the store is selling. If anything the employee should feel like a jackass. If I'm buying a car and the salesman doesn't know anything about it, I'd consider that a huge problem.


If you aren't satisfied with the employee, shop somewhere else. If someone wasn't happy with my service or my knowledge on a product, I would fully expect them to shop elsewhere. That being said, if I couldn't bullshit my way through a sale, I would ask for help.

OP sounds like he's describing a cocky jackass who is too big to ask for help. I would not confront him because you will only end up looking like a jackass and that store will know to watch out for you, and you'll receive shitty service there from then on out. Long story short, shop somewhere else, and recommend that people do the same when they ask you about the store.

But then again, I'm not a confrontational person. I don't get in people's faces, and I certainly don't like when people get in mine, either while I'm working or elsewhere. If you think getting in their face and confronting them is the right move, then hey, more power to you.
Last edited by Shotgunmerc at Sep 3, 2014,
#18
in relation to my job, it'd be like me describing a beer or wine we have and a customer telling me I was wrong. If for a fact I knew I was right, I would more or less ignore them with a 'oh is that right?', but if I wasn't sure(like a new wine or something, which is a situation that's actually happened a few times) I say something like 'oh really? I haven't had a lot of time to try this one out so I was assuming based on knowledge of like-wines, How is it actually so I can start being more accurate with my recommendations until I get a taste of it myself?' and the conversation continues like that for a while.

long story short, you really should call people out when they're wrong, BUT that doesn't mean you need to be a dick about it. constructive criticism is okay.
It's over simplified, So what!

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#19
I work at a music store. I'm another two semesters away from my degree. Once I get it I'm leaving music retail and never coming back. It's partly the industry, but mostly the customers. I don't know why guitarists are so damn competitive, but everyone wants to get in some kind of show-off with me about how much they know. It's stupid.

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#20
Quote by Shotgunmerc
When I worked for the music store, I had at least elementary knowledge of everything I'm selling. Vandoren Clarinet reeds? Never used one in my life, I could sell them. Trumpet mouthpieces? Can't use them, can't demonstrate them, can sell them. Did I bullshit my way through a ton of sales? You betcha. I NEVER sold anything that was inherently wrong, but I certainly uped the price on a ton of sales by adding accessories because that was my job. I certainly didn't know the ins and outs of everything, but I knew enough.

Does that make me a bad person? Meh. Does that make me a bullshitter? In context, sure.


If you aren't satisfied with the employee, shop somewhere else. If someone wasn't happy with my service or my knowledge on a product, I would fully expect them to shop elsewhere. That being said, if I couldn't bullshit my way through a sale, I would ask for help.

OP sounds like he's describing a cocky jackass who is too big to ask for help. I would not confront him because you will only end up looking like a jackass and that store will know to watch out for you, and you'll receive shitty service there from then on out. Long story short, shop somewhere else, and recommend that people do the same when they ask you about the store.

But then again, I'm not a confrontational person. I don't get in people's faces, and I certainly don't like when people get in mine, either while I'm working or elsewhere. If you think getting in their face and confronting them is the right move, then hey, more power to you.



Do yourself a favor and don't pursue a career in business. "If you aren't satisfied with the employee shop somewhere else". What kind of attitude is that for an employee of a music store or any retail store for that matter.
As an employee it's your responsibility to ensure you are providing excellent customer service which means knowing your product or getting another employee who knows more about a particular product when asked by a prospective customer.
#21
Quote by Shotgunmerc

If you aren't satisfied with the employee, shop somewhere else. If someone wasn't happy with my service or my knowledge on a product, I would fully expect them to shop elsewhere. That being said, if I couldn't bullshit my way through a sale, I would ask for help.

You cannot afford to have that attitude when you're trying to run a business. You need to give people a reason to not shop anywhere else. As an employee that serves customers, you are a representation of the company and it's services. It's your obligation to know what your company serves.
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Sep 3, 2014,
#22
Quote by badfish_lewis
Do yourself a favor and don't pursue a career in business. "If you aren't satisfied with the employee shop somewhere else". What kind of attitude is that for an employee of a music store or any retail store for that matter.
As an employee it's your responsibility to ensure you are providing excellent customer service which means knowing your product or getting another employee who knows more about a particular product when asked by a prospective customer.


I'm pursuing a career in music and talking about how I was in the past, but thanks for the advice on how to live my life

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
You cannot afford to have that attitude when you're trying to run a business. You need to give people a reason to not shop anywhere else. As an employee that serves customers, you are a representation of the company and it's services. It's your obligation to know what your company serves.


I'm not going to be so full of myself that I presume to know everything, so if someone else knows better, I'd rather they go and get knowledgeable help. They get better service that way.

For the record, 90% of the time at my current job, that's what ends up happening anyway, because legally speaking I cannot recommend/sell 90% of the products in my store (I work for CVS). I am pretty much obligated to say "Well I don't really know, but let me direct you to (person) who does."

If someone isn't satisfied with my service quality these days, more often than not they were trying to cheat me in a sale and I told them no. I would rather they cheat someone else every single time. In the past at the music store, more often than not if I couldn't bullshit someone, I would ask a teacher or another employee to help or I would send them to a different location within the company.

Bullshitting customers comes from the amount of pressure you are in a music store. I was fortunate enough to get paid an hourly wage in addition to the 1-4% commission I got, but most stores don't work like that. Even in my store, I was under huge pressure to meet impossibly high sales goals, with a boss that actively disliked me. If I don't "bullshit" someone, I get in trouble.

The fact that in those cases I would rather people go elsewhere is a sign that I would rather they get quality service from someone knowledgeable on the topic vs me who would bullshit you to keep my job. Good for business? No. Noble? Probably a little bit.
#23
i would slaughter them and pillage their family's home.
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#24
Quote by Shotgunmerc
Let him do his job because odds are, if he's in a music store, he needs that sale to eat.

You will look like a jackass if you be that guy. Alternatively, just apply for a job there if you feel that knowledgeable and need a part time job.

Source: former music store employee

Technically, it's a salesmen's job to know enough about the products being sold to dispense CORRECT information. So...the whole "he needs that sale to eat" line is bullshit.
#25
Quote by Shotgunmerc

I'm not going to be so full of myself that I presume to know everything, so if someone else knows better, I'd rather they go and get knowledgeable help. They get better service that way.

For the record, 90% of the time at my current job, that's what ends up happening anyway, because legally speaking I cannot recommend/sell 90% of the products in my store (I work for CVS). I am pretty much obligated to say "Well I don't really know, but let me direct you to (person) who does."

If someone isn't satisfied with my service quality these days, more often than not they were trying to cheat me in a sale and I told them no. I would rather they cheat someone else every single time. In the past at the music store, more often than not if I couldn't bullshit someone, I would ask a teacher or another employee to help or I would send them to a different location within the company.

Bullshitting customers comes from the amount of pressure you are in a music store. I was fortunate enough to get paid an hourly wage in addition to the 1-4% commission I got, but most stores don't work like that. Even in my store, I was under huge pressure to meet impossibly high sales goals, with a boss that actively disliked me. If I don't "bullshit" someone, I get in trouble.

The fact that in those cases I would rather people go elsewhere is a sign that I would rather they get quality service from someone knowledgeable on the topic vs me who would bullshit you to keep my job. Good for business? No. Noble? Probably a little bit.

Why not ask your superiors to set a more realistic sales target, such that you don't have to bullshit your customers out of desperation to sell or get fired?
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#26
If its to annother customer I call them on it. If they are smug to me I go tell a manager, I know the guitar, amp and pedal section better all of the employees at my gc combined There was one I would give a break to because she at least tried to learn all the stuff there and was really hot
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#27
Quote by JustRooster
I work at a music store. I'm another two semesters away from my degree. Once I get it I'm leaving music retail and never coming back. It's partly the industry, but mostly the customers. I don't know why guitarists are so damn competitive, but everyone wants to get in some kind of show-off with me about how much they know. It's stupid.


yeah well i'm one third of a semester away from my musicology degree (also a phd in guitar wank) and let me tell you that you may think you know shit but it's all dunning-booger effect and you haven't learned enough to know that you're really clueless. trust me when i say that some metal strings vibrating around a magnet is not just basic electromagnetism, you must consider the quantum effects of my vibrato technique SQIDDLY DIDDLY DIDDLY okay back off let me buy this metallica tab book hey btw do i hit cancel for credit?
i don't know why i feel so dry
#28
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Why not ask your superiors to set a more realistic sales target, such that you don't have to bullshit your customers out of desperation to sell or get fired?


That'll go down great lol

"hey boss, think maybe your goals are a little unrealistic, could you lower then a little"

"nope, question me again and you're fired"


Unless the guy was downright lying to another customer, or making up extortionate prices I wouldn't say or do anything. I might decide to shop somewhere else, and I'll think the sales guy is a bit out of order for doing it. It really does depend what you mean by "misinformation" though, do you mean the guy is talking up an amp, an expensive one to get a sale, when that amp actually sucks balls?

If he was doing something like that to me, then I'd say something like "I've actually heard different things than that, I've read reviews and have talked to a few people that have said the opposite." or something like that, something not aggressive, but lets the guy know I'm not clueless. If they're being polite then I'll always be polite back, but I always research whatever I'm looking to buy first, and will have checked out a load of different stuff online before even stepping foot inside a shop. Same goes for video games, and when I was still into it, skateboarding
#29
Quote by Bladez22
That'll go down great lol

"hey boss, think maybe your goals are a little unrealistic, could you lower then a little"

"nope, question me again and you're fired"


Unless the guy was downright lying to another customer, or making up extortionate prices I wouldn't say or do anything. I might decide to shop somewhere else, and I'll think the sales guy is a bit out of order for doing it. It really does depend what you mean by "misinformation" though, do you mean the guy is talking up an amp, an expensive one to get a sale, when that amp actually sucks balls?

If he was doing something like that to me, then I'd say something like "I've actually heard different things than that, I've read reviews and have talked to a few people that have said the opposite." or something like that, something not aggressive, but lets the guy know I'm not clueless. If they're being polite then I'll always be polite back, but I always research whatever I'm looking to buy first, and will have checked out a load of different stuff online before even stepping foot inside a shop. Same goes for video games, and when I was still into it, skateboarding

This, although I'll usually play clueless whilst mentioning it.

If they're aggressive, unwilling to acknowledge what i've said or rude etc then I just shop somewhere else.
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#30
Quote by Bladez22
That'll go down great lol

"hey boss, think maybe your goals are a little unrealistic, could you lower then a little"

"nope, question me again and you're fired"

I've worked with people who have acknowledged that the goals they've set for me are unrealistic, so they have been changed. It depends on the employer. Not all employers are insufferable jerks.
Unless the guy was downright lying to another customer, or making up extortionate prices I wouldn't say or do anything. I might decide to shop somewhere else, and I'll think the sales guy is a bit out of order for doing it. It really does depend what you mean by "misinformation" though, do you mean the guy is talking up an amp, an expensive one to get a sale, when that amp actually sucks balls?

If he was doing something like that to me, then I'd say something like "I've actually heard different things than that, I've read reviews and have talked to a few people that have said the opposite." or something like that, something not aggressive, but lets the guy know I'm not clueless. If they're being polite then I'll always be polite back, but I always research whatever I'm looking to buy first, and will have checked out a load of different stuff online before even stepping foot inside a shop. Same goes for video games, and when I was still into it, skateboarding

A large majority of customers who go to a music store are complete beginners. They don't know what to research, and where to research it. They just go down to the music store and form their opinion from said experience. In that situation, there is no way for them to know if they're being conned.
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Sep 3, 2014,
#31
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
I've worked with people who have acknowledged that the goals they've set for me are unrealistic, so they have been changed. It depends on the employer. Not all employers are insufferable jerks.



Some people are not that lucky, bosses in retail/customer service are the worst and

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE

A large majority of customers who go to a music store are complete beginners. They don't know what to research, and where to research it. They just go down to the music store and form their opinion from said experience. In that situation, there is no way for them to know if they're being conned.


A beginner shouldn't be dropping a lot of money, if they go out and buy a brand new Fender and Marshall amp because a salesperson recommended them, then that's kinda their problem. As for buying shitty gear, if its cheaper than the better ones then I see no problem really, a beginner doesn't need great stuff as they're likely to quit a few months later anyway. And if they're seriously looking into it then they really should do a little bit of background reading first. I wouldn't walk into a ski shop and buy a load of stuff without reading up on skiing and basic gear first

And at the end of the day, the stuff in the shop is there to be sold, and it is that person's job to try and get it sold. The fact that its even in the shop means that it must be at least halfway decent, or else the shop wouldn't stock it. I dunno if that's true for the bigger chain stores, but all the music shops I've been to have had a fairly high standard of stuff
#32
Quote by Bladez22

A beginner shouldn't be dropping a lot of money,

What might not be a lot of money to you might be a lot to them.

But in my opinion, I don't think there should be a limit as to how much a person wants to spend. It's their money, they can do whatever they want with it. Buying cheap gear because you're worried about losing interest in the hobby and losing a load of money is a false economy anyway. If you buy a shit guitar, it'll really hamper your progress as a musician. It ends up being a self-fulfilling prophecy.
if they go out and buy a brand new Fender and Marshall amp because a salesperson recommended them, then that's kinda their problem. As for buying shitty gear, if its cheaper than the better ones then I see no problem really, a beginner doesn't need great stuff as they're likely to quit a few months later anyway. And if they're seriously looking into it then they really should do a little bit of background reading first. I wouldn't walk into a ski shop and buy a load of stuff without reading up on skiing and basic gear first

Sure. But trapping a consumer into getting a shitty deal by taking advantage of their inexperience isn't a very good practice either, it's hardly justified. And Skiing is incomparable to guitar in this context because the worst that can happen with guitar is getting a shitty deal and quitting the hobby. The worst that can happen with skiing is getting killed in a skiing accident. The consequence of one's ignorance are far more obvious with skiing than it is with guitar.
And at the end of the day, the stuff in the shop is there to be sold, and it is that person's job to try and get it sold. The fact that its even in the shop means that it must be at least halfway decent, or else the shop wouldn't stock it. I dunno if that's true for the bigger chain stores, but all the music shops I've been to have had a fairly high standard of stuff

Yes, but not necessarily because it's actually good. But because they think people will buy them. Inexperienced people will buy junk if it's made to look pretty.
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