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gonzaw
UG's Secret Agent
Join date: Mar 2007
6,087 IQ
#64321
Quote by Rossenrot
You've put me in the unfamiliar position of having to defend the complexities of government. Laws are complicated because we live in a relativist world. Simple laws are frequently unable to compensate for the myriad of variables of human life in the third dimension, and absolutist laws almost always come into conflict with themselves or other laws. This is the abstract to a much larger post full of hypotheticals that I could, but don't have the energy to, expand on.

I am however very sympathetic to your desire for more accessible laws. I can't think of a single area in American law that doesn't need emaciation, and since you mentioned the tax code, we should start there. Our tax code is so long that an entire profession exists in order to assist people in dealing with the overheavy burden of navigating 74,000+ pages of bullshit. It's beyond defensible as to why we should have to pay a corporation (like H&R Block) to tell us how much we have to pay the government for fear of punishment.

There are other areas of life that should be totally emancipated from the auspices of government altogether, which is the most effective form of simplification. Unfortunately, our laws almost never become more palpable, and lawyers have very little interest in legislating themselves out of a job.


Hmm, in what situations do "myriad of variables of human life" have a considerable weight? I can assume something like murder/crimes would be difficult to simplify (at least if the current laws are correct), though I'm not sure if it isn't worth it to try and analyse even those kind of situations to see if there can be a more simplified model.

Yeah I'm not from the US, but I used US taxes as an example because I notice like 80% of americans complaining about them. Over here they are still complex so the example still applies, but as much.

EDIT: My main problem with this is basically what you posted. Why do you need to pay a 3rd party a whole bunch of money, just so they can give you advice on how to do your taxes or doing your taxes themselves? Shouldn't taxes be simple enough, and their documentation/guides/etc available and readable enough, that any citizen would just do them themselves without any problem in a few minutes/whatever?
Same with some kind of legal consultants on certain issues, specially if you have income, or a small company or stuff like that. Why aren't these issues simple and easy enough for this to not be a problem?

It's like if we needed to pay an "Underwear consultant" $50k per month just so we can remove our pants every day. The default in legal/civil matters should be something simple the citizen has the power to do himself. And by "has the power" I mean has the power to do so correctly (e.g do their taxes correctly so they don't get fined/jailed). We should strive for this as much as possible, and whenever it starts getting worse (like the taxes thing) call out on it. I get the feeling that this kind of issue (complexity in government/legislation) is a very hidden matter that nobody realizes even exists, at least they don't until they get utterly ****ed by it (by 3rd party consultants, getting fined/jailed, frustration, etc), but by then it's almost too late to do anything. These problems should be caught before they **** everybody up.

Another example I can think of are lawyers in a court of law, at least defense lawyers. Why isn't the default for citizens to defend themselves in a trial? It's certainly a legal option, so why is it frowned upon for citizens to do that, and when they do defend themselves it's way way worse for them? Shouldn't the legal system be simple enough for any common citizen to be able to defend themselves in a court of law every single time, without any problems whatsoever?
If you compare this to ancient Greece and the like, then you can notice the problem. In those ancient civilizations every "proper" citizen had enough knowledge of law, politics, etc to basically govern himself in that civilization. Why shouldn't we strive for that kind of "citizen power" in our modern world?
Last edited by gonzaw at Sep 17, 2015,
gonzaw
UG's Secret Agent
Join date: Mar 2007
6,087 IQ
#64322
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/anger-after-saudi-arabia-chosen-to-head-key-un-human-rights-panel-10509716.html

lolUN

Yeah UN, legalizing marihuana makes it so we are violating very important international treaties, but nah, you go ahead and make Saudi Arabia head of the UN Human Rights panel, I trust your judgement
beadhangingOne
Gnomesaiyan?
Join date: Jul 2005
1,468 IQ
#64323
What do you guys think about Europe taking in more and more refugees?

Should there be more responsibility on the gulf states that are much closer to the refugees?
slapsymcdougal
Banned
Join date: Nov 2011
1,961 IQ
#64324
Quote by beadhangingOne
What do you guys think about Europe taking in more and more refugees?

Should there be more responsibility on the gulf states that are much closer to the refugees?

They can always use more slavesindentured workers.
Arby911
Finding the Pattern
Join date: Jul 2010
832 IQ
#64325
Quote by beadhangingOne
What do you guys think about Europe taking in more and more refugees?

Should there be more responsibility on the gulf states that are much closer to the refugees?


I think Europe should take in ALL the refugees.

If they had stepped up and shown some leadership in removing Assad, this wouldn't be happening, so it's really their fault.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
beadhangingOne
Gnomesaiyan?
Join date: Jul 2005
1,468 IQ
#64326
Yeah the US has a terrible history of supporting nebulous "moderates" against various regimes. Seems like we would have learned our lesson, heh.

The devil you know...
ErikLensherr
MGTOW
Join date: Jul 2011
1,634 IQ
#64327
We should make our peace with Assad now, work with him to destroy ISIS and stabilize the country, and kill him later YEESH
Quote by EpiExplorer
I swear this guy in particular writes for the telegraph or some shit.

Quote by Rossenrot
I was in NYC for all of about 5 minutes until I was called a cracker and called out to fight someone.
gonzaw
UG's Secret Agent
Join date: Mar 2007
6,087 IQ
#64328
The full text of the TPP has been released ...

... does anybody have any idea wtf it's about now that the "secrecy" is gone?

It's like 3000 pages long and in legalese and I doubt I nor any average person will read it and understand it. Regarding something you can't do yourself (read the text and understand it), how do you proceed to try and form an opinion on it? Which lawyer/party/organization do you trust to read it and explain it to you in objective terms?
ErikLensherr
MGTOW
Join date: Jul 2011
1,634 IQ
#64329
I trust Obama.
Quote by EpiExplorer
I swear this guy in particular writes for the telegraph or some shit.

Quote by Rossenrot
I was in NYC for all of about 5 minutes until I was called a cracker and called out to fight someone.
Dreadnought
Oceanic Mountainman
Join date: Sep 2002
5,250 IQ
#64330
Tpp?
But we little know until tried how much of the uncontrollable there is in us, urging across glaciers and torrents, and up dangerous heights, let the judgment forbid as it may.
Rossenrot
👻
Join date: Nov 2007
188 IQ
#64331
Quote by ErikLensherr
I trust Obama.


Are you Debbie Wasserman
Dreadnought
Oceanic Mountainman
Join date: Sep 2002
5,250 IQ
#64332
Nevermind
But we little know until tried how much of the uncontrollable there is in us, urging across glaciers and torrents, and up dangerous heights, let the judgment forbid as it may.
ErikLensherr
MGTOW
Join date: Jul 2011
1,634 IQ
#64333
Quote by Rossenrot at #33673474
Are you Debbie Wasserman

No but fun fact she represents my old 'hood outside Miami.
Quote by EpiExplorer
I swear this guy in particular writes for the telegraph or some shit.

Quote by Rossenrot
I was in NYC for all of about 5 minutes until I was called a cracker and called out to fight someone.
Dreadnought
Oceanic Mountainman
Join date: Sep 2002
5,250 IQ
#64334
Quote by ErikLensherr at #33673485
No but fun fact she represents my old 'hood outside Miami.


She represents my Florida district. Where yo hood at
But we little know until tried how much of the uncontrollable there is in us, urging across glaciers and torrents, and up dangerous heights, let the judgment forbid as it may.
ErikLensherr
MGTOW
Join date: Jul 2011
1,634 IQ
#64335
I'm reppin Weston 5ever

jk Weston sux
Quote by EpiExplorer
I swear this guy in particular writes for the telegraph or some shit.

Quote by Rossenrot
I was in NYC for all of about 5 minutes until I was called a cracker and called out to fight someone.
Dreadnought
Oceanic Mountainman
Join date: Sep 2002
5,250 IQ
#64336
So are you from Weston or not lol
But we little know until tried how much of the uncontrollable there is in us, urging across glaciers and torrents, and up dangerous heights, let the judgment forbid as it may.
ErikLensherr
MGTOW
Join date: Jul 2011
1,634 IQ
#64337
I lived there for a few years as a kid and couldn't have been happier when we came back to New York.
Quote by EpiExplorer
I swear this guy in particular writes for the telegraph or some shit.

Quote by Rossenrot
I was in NYC for all of about 5 minutes until I was called a cracker and called out to fight someone.
Dreadnought
Oceanic Mountainman
Join date: Sep 2002
5,250 IQ
#64338
Weston is a super nice area though

Well, a well moneyed area that's kinda far from other places
But we little know until tried how much of the uncontrollable there is in us, urging across glaciers and torrents, and up dangerous heights, let the judgment forbid as it may.
ErikLensherr
MGTOW
Join date: Jul 2011
1,634 IQ
#64339
Yeah it's nice if you wanna raise a family somewhere safe. I didn't appreciate that aspect back then. I just found it boring and missed my friends.
Quote by EpiExplorer
I swear this guy in particular writes for the telegraph or some shit.

Quote by Rossenrot
I was in NYC for all of about 5 minutes until I was called a cracker and called out to fight someone.
WaterGod
BernieBro
Join date: Sep 2010
541 IQ
#64340
Quote by ErikLensherr
I trust Obama.

I trust Obama more than Hillary.
gonzaw
UG's Secret Agent
Join date: Mar 2007
6,087 IQ
#64341
http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/pessimists-guide-to-2016/

So, how much of this do you think will happen?

I don't really think the South America one will happen. The opposition won the mayority of the Senate seats in Venezuela so I don't think the "Maduro vs the people" thing will continue that much, and I think we can give Macri a little bit of time to see what he does (doubt it will end in Argentina's economic collapse though). Yeah Brazil may turn for the worse perhaps.
gonzaw
UG's Secret Agent
Join date: Mar 2007
6,087 IQ
#64342
bump

So, what's up with ISIS and that shit "over there"? Are we "done" with it, as an international affair?

I heard Kurds have recovered some towns and stuff. I take it ISIS is losing ground and resources then?
Are there still a high number of ISIS recruits from oversees, or does this "lack of attention" mean there aren't many?
gonzaw
UG's Secret Agent
Join date: Mar 2007
6,087 IQ
#64343
http://www.elpais.com.uy/informacion/ley-fotocopias-habilitara-copia-cds.html

Funny how opposite stuff is happening here and in USA/etc regarding "copyright" law.
There's been a bill proposed here to allow the copy/reproduction of a copyright protected product, only if it's a single physical copy done by 1 person for non-commercial uses.

Basically lots of students needed lots of books and notes to study over here and there were copying shops where they took the books (being lent by someone else) and photocopied them to be able to study. This was supposedly "illegal", but our current legislators said that it shouldn't in this specific case.
Now some musicians and writers and doing some protests because this may be applied to music and other types of books (it's not clear if the bill is gonna change to consider that or not).

Would be kind of hard to think about something like this happening in other parts of the world