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Mephaphil
No empty frets.
Join date: Apr 2012
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#1
Hello good people!

I have 2 amps. I have a Fender Super 60. Beautiful clean channel, so so lovely. But it's not as loud as it should be as I do play with a band and will gig with it. The gain channel is not as nice as it should be. I do normally use my big muff but it doesn't give me the blues gain that I want, neither does the amp.

It's such a shame because the clean is so nice. But in my cut throat world of fickle buying and trading in if you don't cut it you're going back to the shop!

My Lil night train is okay, but I never use it and I'm not too fussed.

So here are the details you want.

I live in London, work near it.

I will be selling both amps if need be and adding some cash so I guess my budget will be around £700ish. I don't mind used as long as it isn't old. My super 60, such lovely cleans, hums n stuff even after the tubes have been changed.

It has to have great cleans. I play Froosh stuff, Hendrix, QOTSA, Pumpkins, Stones, Guns & Roses, Led Zeppelin, I want to be able to play jazzy stuff, great cleans, bluesy gain but also a good metally crunch.

So let's recap this crazy combination.

I want to able to play Slash, QOTSA, Froosh, Hendrix and Pumpkins on it. So blues and hard rock but not too high gain with the ability to get jazz tones.

It must be an upgrade. I don't like modelling amps, solid state or hybrids.

Thanks
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Last edited by Mephaphil at Dec 10, 2012,
DylanHendrix
Acid King
Join date: Oct 2009
477 IQ
#2
Fender Super Sonic
I SEE A BAD MOON RISING
I SEE TROUBLE ON THE WAY
Mephaphil
No empty frets.
Join date: Apr 2012
1,956 IQ
#3
Quote by DylanHendrix
Fender Super Sonic


What size are you talking about? They are £1000+
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


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Mephaphil
No empty frets.
Join date: Apr 2012
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#5
It's quite normal for them not to actually achieve 60W on the clean channel. The wattage was tested on the gain channel. The clean just isn't as loud.

I believe it's a design flaw, which is such a bummer because it's so nice. Plus the gain isn't as amazing as the clean.

It seems that a lot of my influences play Marshall...
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Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


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Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


Mephaphil
No empty frets.
Join date: Apr 2012
1,956 IQ
#7
Here's some people talking about the amp and the loudness of it. http://www.thegearpage.net/board/archive/index.php/t-587720.html

It's okay but it should be louder, especially when you want to balance the driven gain with the clean.

Plus as I said, the gain channel isn't amazing.

If the clean is a 9, the gain is a 6. I want them both to be 9.
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


Last edited by Mephaphil at Dec 10, 2012,
Blktiger0
The Name's Devon! ;)
Join date: Sep 2007
3,630 IQ
#8
60w and 120w have a barely noticable volume difference. Watts are more of a measure of Headroom. The actual volume is other factors, but generally, any tube amp above 20w is loud enough for a gig. I find it odd that you have that big of an amp and you stuggle for volume at gigs. Something smells of shenanigans.

Also, +1 on 331's rec of an Egnater Renegade.
Mephaphil
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#9
Yea I'm aware of wattage, how a 1w can be nearly similar decibels to a much higher wattage etc hehe.

It's alright, but it should be more. Check out the link.

Also, probably more importantly its the quality of the gain.
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


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Mephaphil
No empty frets.
Join date: Apr 2012
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#10
The renegade seems to go for around £900+ new. Nothing on eBay at the moment.

Possibly in my price range but they aren't in any local shops for me to try.

Any other ideas?
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


Blktiger0
The Name's Devon! ;)
Join date: Sep 2007
3,630 IQ
#11
Well, you could look into:

Peavey Ultra

Peavey Ultra Plus

Egnater Rebel 30

Egnater Tweaker 88

You might be able to find an EVH 5150 III Mini in that price range.

A Vox AC30 might also be worth checking out
Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
Join date: Oct 2009
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#12
Can you get a Laney VH100R for that used over there?
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
MrFlibble
Puts a bangin' donk on it
Join date: Apr 2008
4,127 IQ
#13
Check out the Marshall JCM2000s. They're not going to give you the world's finest jazz tones, but everything else, they can do well.
Blackstar also make a wide range of amps that can cover all the ground you mentioned, though like any jack-of-all-trades amps, they don't particularly excel in any area. You can certainly get something from them that is within your budget, loud and varied enough in tone, though.
The brand might make you sneer, but take a look at the Line 6 DT series of amps. Like the amps Blackstar make, they can do damn near anything you ask of them, though they're not going to blow you away in any one area. The Carvin V3M is a similar beast, lots of options in each channel but you'll never win awards for your tones.

You may be best off grabbing an amp that has appropriate clean tones and alright light drive, then use an OD pedal for medium distortion and then a dedicated distortion pedal for the heavier stuff. Frankly, what makes an amp give classic jazz tones is the opposite of what will give you typical hard rock and dirty blues tones. This is why people in the prog scene tend to gravitate toward multi-amp set ups and amp modelling, and why you got guys like Prince in the 80s just saying to hell with it, using a Roland Jazz Chorus and sticking an army of pedals in front.
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Mephaphil
No empty frets.
Join date: Apr 2012
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#14
Blktiger, I'll check them out.

The Vox does sound like something I should have thought of.

MrFibble, I feel that my current amp has the appropriate clean, but the gain isn't amazing at all, compared to say a super sonic. Have you played a Super 60?

I just feel I have a good budget for something that does it all a lot better. Blackstar are cool, but I'm a little bit of an amp purist and I know that they do a lot hybrids, but my pal has one and it's nice but it's not as nice as my Super.

JCMs are going to be looked at now. Thanks.
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


Mephaphil
No empty frets.
Join date: Apr 2012
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#15
Also you need to be on steroids to move the Super around. It's so heavy, and my back is nearing a second operation at the age of 28 :/

Something lighter is required which is another factor.

There's 3 factors.

1) Not masses of headroom on the clean channel, the gain is much louder.

2) The gain channel isn't amazing.

3) It's mega heavy.
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


Last edited by Mephaphil at Dec 10, 2012,
Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
Join date: Oct 2009
2,565 IQ
#17


Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Mephaphil
No empty frets.
Join date: Apr 2012
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#18
Quote by Blktiger0
/inb4cathsaysgetatrolley


I can't steal them anymore. They have some ****ed up technology in the wheels that stop them from working as soon as you get anywhere near the exit of the supermarket.

It's wrong. It's just wrong.
Quote by Shredwizard445
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Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


Mephaphil
No empty frets.
Join date: Apr 2012
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#19
Quote by Cathbard




Yea see, in the UK we have a different kind of trolley. And people steal them and drive their shopping home like a trolley person who is homeless but isn't. It's so normal the police don't mind but it's a problem, a definite problem. Enough for the supermarkets to invest in crazy wheel locking technology.

I could put the money for your trolley on my budget. And the new amp would be lighter, negating the trolley.
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


Blktiger0
The Name's Devon! ;)
Join date: Sep 2007
3,630 IQ
#20




I thought you were completely kidding in the first response, then I read the second one

That's great...

See, over here in the States, we usually call them Dolley or just Cart

Silly language dialects.
MrFlibble
Puts a bangin' donk on it
Join date: Apr 2008
4,127 IQ
#21
Right, well if weight and size is also an issue to be fixed then that really cuts the field down. Yes, I have played with a Super 60, and in the grand scheme of things it's not that heavy or large an amp, so if that's already too big for you then this is going to become a real mission. The Super's only a 1x12", it's not like combos or head+cabs come much smaller...

Only thing I can think of that can cover all the ground you originally mentioned, is easy to carry about and is within your budget is a Carvin V3M, then get a small cab like a 1x12" or maybe a 2x10", something like that. They're mostly geared towards an American response and high-gain tones, but the clean channel actually has a lot of options to it and you can always dial in more mids, less presence and less gain on the distorted channels. There's a good 20+ minute demo of it through various settings and styles of playing on youtube (you'll need to search it, been weeks since I watched it, god knows what the direct url is).

Or again, the Line 6 DT series. They're a little bigger than the Carvin, but still smaller than most equivalent combos and heads from other companies.

Between the range of sounds you're after, your budget and the size issue, you're really not leaving yourself with many options. I really would stress you consider going for the clean amp + pedals route, because trying to that wide a range of tones just from one amp alone is basically not going to happen.
Jazz to hard rock in a comfortable size for a medium budget simply does not exist. If it did, everybody would use whatever it was and nobody would buy anything else ever You need to make a compromise somewhere, whether that's in the technology of the amp, waiting to save and increase your budget, or relying on pedals to generate some of the tones.
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Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
Join date: Oct 2009
2,565 IQ
#22
No gigging musician should be without a decent trolley/dolly/cart. There's always something that you will need it for.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Mephaphil
No empty frets.
Join date: Apr 2012
1,956 IQ
#23
Quote by Blktiger0




I thought you were completely kidding in the first response, then I read the second one

That's great...

See, over here in the States, we usually call them Dolley or just Cart

Silly language dialects.


I never kid.


That was a joke.

I'm probably gonna call my guitar shop, see what they can do for me, and what they have based on some recommendations.

I'd like a head and cab but I'm not sure if I can get something that great in the price range.
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


Mephaphil
No empty frets.
Join date: Apr 2012
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#24
Ok. The weight will give. One of the guys uses a cart thingy.

I like to have an amp that does the tone pure, with pedals to deliver other stuff. The amp IS the pedal... Have I just blown your mind?

Anyway, Mr/Dr. Fibble, how did you find the 60?

What about this?

http://www.pmtonline.co.uk/marshall-tsl602-guitar-amplifier-combo.html

I can get Jazzy tones with some tone rolled off and a chorus pedal. I'm looking for versatility, mainly its all about Hendrix to Slash tone. So blues to heavier stuff. But with a nice clean.

I hope that's a bit easier.
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


Last edited by Mephaphil at Dec 10, 2012,
ihartfood
Potato Faced Blind Man
Join date: Mar 2012
551 IQ
#25
oh nevermind, now I know what you mean haha.

I suggest you look into the JCM2000 series DSL heads. far better than the TSL IMO.
Last edited by ihartfood at Dec 10, 2012,
Mephaphil
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Join date: Apr 2012
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#26
What about the combo?
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


Mephaphil
No empty frets.
Join date: Apr 2012
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#27
This one specifically. http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/electric_amps_detail.asp?stock=12071816120932&gclid=CMqv7JaOkbQCFU3HtAodoEwAgQ

I'm aware the wattage is lower than my current main amp, but the Super doesn't go that loud on the clean so it's probably better anyway.
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


Last edited by Mephaphil at Dec 10, 2012,
ihartfood
Potato Faced Blind Man
Join date: Mar 2012
551 IQ
#29
you didn't find it to be an annoying fizzy mess? huh. yours may have had nice tubes.

Just a thought TS, you may order that DSL from a place with a decent return policy and retube it, see how it sounds. might be pleasantly surprised.
Last edited by ihartfood at Dec 10, 2012,
ihartfood
Potato Faced Blind Man
Join date: Mar 2012
551 IQ
#31
granted the one I tried was the 100 at a GC-ish volume, but I did get it up to about 4 on the master when the guy wasn't looking. through a PPC212. meh.

I'd still like to see what he thinks of the DSL40c with new toobs.
Ippon
Amped
Join date: Feb 2006
1,526 IQ
#32
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
It had a bit of that DSL fizz. I didn't check the tube compliment. It was through a Mesa 112 cab as that is the way it was set up in the loud room.

I scored an 85th Ann a few weeks back and it looks and sounds like a DSL50; so, I suppose it's just a re-badged DSL50, yea?

It didn't/doesn't have the fizz you mention. If anything, I noticed this fizz with the Rivera KR100/KR7 at low volumes, which I rarely do anyway.
Mephaphil
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Join date: Apr 2012
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#33
I'd be ordering the combo version. But I don't want any hassle to be honest .

If there's a known issue with this product I'll stay away. It can be quite hard to fully test amps in the shop and that's the kind of issue you find after a couple of weeks at home.

Is it only the head or the combo version too?
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


Last edited by Mephaphil at Dec 11, 2012,
Cathbard
Grumpy Old Tech
Join date: Oct 2009
2,565 IQ
#34
Yeah, the 85th birthday is a DSL. They're all 50W'ers aren't they?
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
chatterbox272
Registered User
Join date: May 2011
1,237 IQ
#35
So what I'm getting here is that you want something lighter, but it must be bigger and still use the older, heavier technology. And you want something versatile, but you don't like the most versatile options around.
I can't see you getting a particularly louder amp without it getting heavier unless you go solid state (or at least hybrid), because let's face it, tube amps are HEAVY. I don't mean to attack you but have you actually tried many modellers? I just ask because I've seen people turn their noses up at an Axe-FX because when they started they had a bad experience with a spider .
evmac
Baroness Lover
Join date: May 2010
473 IQ
#36
To me, your interests scream an HD 500 or Axe-FX. Vypyr tube might be a good option too.
Gear:

Fender Strat
PRS SE Custom 24
Agile AL-3100

Jet City JCA50H
Randall 2x12 wV30s
Mephaphil
No empty frets.
Join date: Apr 2012
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#37
Quote by chatterbox272
So what I'm getting here is that you want something lighter, but it must be bigger and still use the older, heavier technology. And you want something versatile, but you don't like the most versatile options around.
I can't see you getting a particularly louder amp without it getting heavier unless you go solid state (or at least hybrid), because let's face it, tube amps are HEAVY. I don't mean to attack you but have you actually tried many modellers? I just ask because I've seen people turn their noses up at an Axe-FX because when they started they had a bad experience with a spider .


No the point is the clean channel on my current amp isn't very loud. It's an issue with this amp. The gain is a fine volume but it's not amazing sounding and the loudness of it doesn't scale with the quietness of the clean. I'm not bothered about the weight as such, it's just mine seems a lot heavier than other amps I've had.

I had a mustang 3. I'm not a fan. My factors are these.

Combo.

Great cleans.

Great gain.

Blues to slash like tones.

Seems to me I want a good Marshall. But which one? The new DSL 40 has mixed reviews and older Marshalls aren't my field of expertise.
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


Mephaphil
No empty frets.
Join date: Apr 2012
1,956 IQ
#38
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fender-Twin-Reverb-65-Reissue-/330839637873?pt=UK_MusicalInstr_Amplifiers_RL

Maybe a twin reverb would give me the gain that I'm after that I couldn't get with the Super? It has the clean, has a good bluesy overdrive and 2/3 is a good compromise.
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


MrFlibble
Puts a bangin' donk on it
Join date: Apr 2008
4,127 IQ
#39
Twin Reverb will give you more volume in the cleans but it really does not have the gain required for even Hendrix (not without boosting it and getting a maxed-out fizzy tone) style tones, let alone Slash-style tones.

Skip the DSL40C, it's just a crapper DSL401 that Marshall is peddling at the same price even though it clearly must cost less to make. The tones on the new DSLs are slightly harsher, almost closer to an Orange on the gain channel and a little solid state-ish on the cleans. It also doesn't have an option for a completely clean tone, the 'classic' channell on it is like the clean channel on the older DSLs with the 'pushed' switch on and the gain perminantly higher. The only way to run them totally clean is if you set the gain to absolutely nothing, and then it's going to cripple the dynamics. The distortion channel is also locked to the super-boosted 'lead 2' option of the other DSLs.
The DSL401 costs barely any more and simply sounds better, or at least it is closer to the classic Marshall sound, which is what you seem to be after (jazz aside). The only thing the 40C does which may be selling points are the options to cut its power output in half and the change from a set 'deep' switch to a variable resonance control. Other than that, the DLS401 gives you more options, more range and a better sound. If you're going to go for a Marshall combo then that's the one to go for.
Yes, I know everything. No, I can't play worth a damn.
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Mephaphil
No empty frets.
Join date: Apr 2012
1,956 IQ
#40
Quote by MrFlibble
Twin Reverb will give you more volume in the cleans but it really does not have the gain required for even Hendrix (not without boosting it and getting a maxed-out fizzy tone) style tones, let alone Slash-style tones.

Skip the DSL40C, it's just a crapper DSL401 that Marshall is peddling at the same price even though it clearly must cost less to make. The tones on the new DSLs are slightly harsher, almost closer to an Orange on the gain channel and a little solid state-ish on the cleans. It also doesn't have an option for a completely clean tone, the 'classic' channell on it is like the clean channel on the older DSLs with the 'pushed' switch on and the gain perminantly higher. The only way to run them totally clean is if you set the gain to absolutely nothing, and then it's going to cripple the dynamics. The distortion channel is also locked to the super-boosted 'lead 2' option of the other DSLs.
The DSL401 costs barely any more and simply sounds better, or at least it is closer to the classic Marshall sound, which is what you seem to be after (jazz aside). The only thing the 40C does which may be selling points are the options to cut its power output in half and the change from a set 'deep' switch to a variable resonance control. Other than that, the DLS401 gives you more options, more range and a better sound. If you're going to go for a Marshall combo then that's the one to go for.


Ok **** it. I'll do it. I'll find a store and try one out.

Would you say that's an upgrade from the Super?
Quote by Shredwizard445
Go ahead and spend your money, I don't care. It won't make you sound better.


Quote by Shredwizard445
Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.