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#1
After the thread about whether or not women inherently have worse taste in music, I thought it would be interesting to hear people's opinions on exclusion in music more generally. I coincidentally read an article by Laina Dawes about her experience of the grunge scene in canada as a black woman and she had this to say:

"We were usually the only black women in the room, and the men, not knowing what to do with us, either sneered or ignored us, sometimes physically shoving us aside. [...] eventually my friend opted out of going to shows with me [...] These groups [Parliament-Funkadelic, Bad Brains etc] made me feel better about my schizophrenic life: a black militant and social justice activist immersed in white music. The music suited the inner frustration I was experiencing but was encouraged not to openly express. But the contemporary groups primarily consisted of men, who, as I learned much later, were less likely to generate consternation in others because of their music preferences."

Looking over my record collection, I find that most of my records are recorded by men, the producers are men and the album art is by men. Additionaly, my musicians tend to keep to "racial genres". In the magazine from which I take that article, The Wire, despite it being a "cerebral"/progressive magazine, most of the contributors are men.
I've also noticed certain positive discriminations in music. For instance, I find that it is quite common to say "great Japanese noise band" as if their being from Japan gives them a natural advantage in noise music, and indeed many of the japanese bands which reach the UK are "noise" bands because of it. (recent example, Bo Ningen)
+ in the other thread people were saying "girls listen to Rhianna because it makes them feel like 'the only girl in the world'". Obviously, a certain number of listeners will be able to identify with Rhianna because she is a woman. However, although there are plenty of men who listen to Rhianna, people were talking as if only women listened to Rhianna. (so like, men are excluded from genre/singers as well.)

So i don;t know... talk about this i guess.

TL;DR why do certain people get excluded from certain genres, and why do we take it for granted?
CuSO4

"I don't have an instrument, I don't have a great voice, I just have some nice clothes maybe." paul rutherford
Last edited by Hereiwas at Jan 2, 2013,
#4
Women/black people/japanese people are in bands?
She was born in 1898 in a barn. She died on the thirty-seventh floor of a skyscraper. She's an astronaut.
#5
Quote by Wolfinator-x
I think the only black people I've ever met (in person) were into rap and techno almost exclusively, with the exception of one blues guitarist at this one bar.

You say that like you've only ever met 3
#6
The best music is made by ugly white european men.
Tomorrow will take us away
Far from home
No one will ever know our names
But the bards' songs will remain
Tomorrow will take it away
The fear of today
It will be gone
Due to our magic songs

ALL HAIL CELESTIA
#8
Quote by Wolfinator-x
I think the only black people I've ever met (in person) were into rap and techno almost exclusively, with the exception of one blues guitarist at this one bar.



well, yeah, and it's like "why?". It seems weird that people limit their interests just as much as they let them be limited.
CuSO4

"I don't have an instrument, I don't have a great voice, I just have some nice clothes maybe." paul rutherford
#9
Quote by ali.guitarkid7
Women/black people/japanese people are in bands?

Where'd you get that idea?

Seriously, I'm really glad I'm a white dude, even if no one actually said anything derogatory about me because of my gender/race I'd still feel all the judging about doing things that they aren't normally expected to do. Even the constant playful jokes would be terrible.
Quote by Sliide90027
But as a bigoted lemming, you have so cry an Alinslyite slur revealing you lack of reason and sense.


Quote by MusicLord16
BOB 1. ur 20 and two u like evil things and idk if u worship the devil
#10
Quote by Wolfinator-x
You mean you've met more than that??

You ever been to a party with white people?

You start seeking out black people pretty soon after that.
#11
Like this if you are a strong independent black woman who don't need no man.
-The Crimson Fucker, aka PonyFan #376121
#12
I've had my race joked about, both as 15/16th white and as 1/16th native american. Needless to say, you have to be pretty white to be made fun of for being white in South Dakota.
#13
here are some generalisations

whites self indulgent whining re not getting laid
blacks boasting about how big their penises are
asians whatever makes them non asian
hispanics whatever neolithic music they copied on a cassette from the 80s
#14
Quote by Wolfinator-x
You mean you've met more than that??

There's not very many Black people where I live either. I think the cold weather of Canada scares them away.
-The Crimson Fucker, aka PonyFan #376121
#15
Quote by metal4eva_22
There's not very many Black people where I live either. I think the cold weather of Canada scares them away.


NHL..case in point
#16
Quote by metal4eva_22
There's not very many Black people where I live either. I think the cold weather of Canada scares them away.
No, it's the 9-month lack of sunlight that prevents their melatonin to show up below their epidermis.
Quote by willT08
You ever been to a party with white people?

You start seeking out black people pretty soon after that.
Please, I'm a Pit-goer.

I don't even know what a party is.
#17
Quote by Wolfinator-x


I don't even know what a party is.



My pants require your presence.
o()o

Quote by JamSessionFreak
yes every night of my entire life i go to bed crying because i wasnt born american
#18
i'm black, canadian, and a metal head. my friends joke about how "white" i am but that's just because i'm not a hood rat or gangster poser like most black people we know.

anyway, you should really see this documentary. a genre's fan base never consists of only one race.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxopWG9I-gQ
Last edited by stonedhippos at Jan 2, 2013,
#19
Quote by Hereiwas
TL;DR why do certain people get excluded from certain genres, and why do we take it for granted?

because notions of patriarchal hierarchies and white supremacy are so entrenched in our popular consciousness that even really socially progressive music scenes are essentially a microcosm of society-at-large. we take it for granted because we're mostly white cis males who suck at recognizing our own privilege or lack of inclusiveness and diversity in our environments. fuck that noise though.
#20
inb4 stupid statement by due

Edit: beaten to it, damn.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#21
Quote by Todd Hart
inb4 stupid statement by due

Edit: beaten to it, damn.



psych!


i kind of worry that I'm actively encouraging exclusion too. So like, can we all agree to not do that, is what I am saying i guess.
CuSO4

"I don't have an instrument, I don't have a great voice, I just have some nice clothes maybe." paul rutherford
#22
Quote by Todd Hart
inb4 stupid statement by due

Edit: beaten to it, damn.

lelelelelelelelel
#23
Why do I take it for granted? Because as a white male there isn't much I can do about it. Integration cannot be propagated by the majority. All they can do is stop it and stop stopping it.

Yeah, most rock music is a bunch of white dudes. Do I wish it was different? Sure. But I'm not going to drive around north Milwaukee picking up G's and driving them to rock shows in Bayshore as a captive audience hoping they eventually like it. That would be strange.
BOOM-SHAKALAKALAKA-BOOM-SHAKALAKUNGA
#25
I have such a strong conviction that Due's never met a black person in his life.
#26
Quote by willT08
I have such a strong conviction that Due's never met a black person in his life.


I'm of the opinion that pretty much anybody who uses the term cis has never met a black/Asian/Arabic/gay/lesbian/bisexual/transsexual/transgendered person in their life. The way they coddle them and treat them like they're helpless wretches rather betrays this.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#27
Quote by Todd Hart
I'm of the opinion that pretty much anybody who uses the term cis has never met a black/Asian/Arabic/gay/lesbian/bisexual/transsexual/transgendered person in their life. The way they coddle them and treat them like they're helpless wretches rather betrays this.

I didn't even know what 'cis' meant until I just looked it up. Gotta be the most Due word in existence.

EDIT: Isn't he like 14 as well?
#28
Quote by due 07
because notions of patriarchal hierarchies and white supremacy are so entrenched in our popular consciousness that even really socially progressive music scenes are essentially a microcosm of society-at-large. we take it for granted because we're mostly white cis males who suck at recognizing our own privilege or lack of inclusiveness and diversity in our environments. fuck that noise though.

I agree with the first part, but not on why we take it for granted. It's pretty easy to recognize these things. However, most of us aren't in a position to alter it positively. Instead all we can do is not be exclusivist D-bags when the opportunity comes around. That said, there's no real way for us to force that opportunity to happen.
BOOM-SHAKALAKALAKA-BOOM-SHAKALAKUNGA
#29
what is cis???

EDIT: make that "why is prefix cis- the opposite of prefix trans- ???"
CuSO4

"I don't have an instrument, I don't have a great voice, I just have some nice clothes maybe." paul rutherford
Last edited by Hereiwas at Jan 2, 2013,
#30
Ok have we reached the part in the thread where we pretend the problem doesn't exist because it's easier to just insult anyone who points it out yet?

We have? cool.
#32
Quote by Mack56
Ok have we reached the part in the thread where we pretend the problem doesn't exist because it's easier to just insult anyone who points it out yet?

We have? cool.
YOU ARE ALL PHILISTINES! PHILISTINES AND CUNTS, ALL OF YOU!
#33
Quote by Mack56
Ok have we reached the part in the thread where we pretend the problem doesn't exist because it's easier to just insult anyone who points it out yet?

We have? cool.

For as long as you type in comic sans, nobody cares what you write.

inb4 Due says font is an extension of yourself and is vital to expressing yourself in the same way he told me wrtng lik dis is
#34
Quote by willT08
For as long as you type in comic sans, nobody cares what you write.

inb4 Due says font is an extension of yourself and is vital to expressing yourself in the same way he told me wrtng lik dis is



I don't know, i kind of liked the comic sans effect. Definately made me try to read what he had written. and then i agreed with him. so.
CuSO4

"I don't have an instrument, I don't have a great voice, I just have some nice clothes maybe." paul rutherford
#35
Quote by Todd Hart
I'm of the opinion that pretty much anybody who uses the term cis has never met a black/Asian/Arabic/gay/lesbian/bisexual/transsexual/transgendered person in their life. The way they coddle them and treat them like they're helpless wretches rather betrays this.
Quote by willT08
I have such a strong conviction that Due's never met a black person in his life.

you guys are pricks. have fun with your anti-due circlejerk without ever pointing out what's so wrong about what i said.
#36
Quote by due 07
you guys are pricks. have fun with your anti-due circlejerk without ever pointing out what's so wrong about what i said.

Who said you were wrong?
#37
Quote by due 07
you guys are pricks. have fun with your anti-due circlejerk without ever pointing out what's so wrong about what i said.


Me and wilt08 can't be dicks, if we were then we wouldn't waste time on this forum: we'd be frotting left, right and center.
...Stapling helium to penguins since 1949.
#38
Quote by willT08
Who said you were wrong?

well th said my post was stupid, and you never voiced any kind of agreement with me but you were liberal with the criticism so i assumed you must have agreed.
Last edited by due 07 at Jan 2, 2013,
#39
Quote by rolandroi
Deal with it. Most racist people live in the US.

Dude, I don't want to just say you're wrong, but you're wrong.

There are plenty of racist people outside the U.S.
BOOM-SHAKALAKALAKA-BOOM-SHAKALAKUNGA
#40
Quote by due 07
because notions of patriarchal hierarchies and white supremacy are so entrenched in our popular consciousness that even really socially progressive music scenes are essentially a microcosm of society-at-large. we take it for granted because we're mostly white cis males who suck at recognizing our own privilege or lack of inclusiveness and diversity in our environments. fuck that noise though.

Check your liberal guilt privilege. It is terrible of you to be flaunting your liberal guilt when some of us don't feel it. Don't you realize that you're oppressing us?
-The Crimson Fucker, aka PonyFan #376121