donegan_zealot
UG's Clueless Guitarist
Join date: May 2009
577 IQ
#1
Ok so I was jamming with a friend and he said he wasn't very good at soloing. He said he liked how I did and asked for some help with a song he was working on. He is in a metal band and all I heard was

--2----1------
0---1---4-2-3

on his 7 string
(not exactly accurate but you get the point)

and where he wanted to solo was just some "Djent" breakdown
00-000-00-0000-0-

I didn't know what to do. No chords to follow, no real lead melody, and no vocal melody to go off of? what do you do? Just up for grabs?
a0kalittlema0n
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Join date: Dec 2004
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#3
whatever that 0 is (b on the 7th string or e on the 6th) I'd do some crazy runs with a couple of perfectly timed sweeps based off of that one note. Really, if there are no chords at all, and you can't seem to find the tonal center from listening, then it shouldn't matter too much what you solo with.
Cheesepuff
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#4
Whatever you hear in your head, whatever you think the solo should sound like, just play that.

Having just one chord to go off of (and a power chord at that) can give a lot of freedom if you know what you're doing.
Vicious_Turtle
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Join date: Jul 2010
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#5
well im pretty sure the key would be whatever obsurdly tuned (wrong spelling) string he was playing is. you could pretty much do slayer soling. ya know, wherer you play random shit with terrible tone and act like a god after
donegan_zealot
UG's Clueless Guitarist
Join date: May 2009
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#7
Quote by Myshadow46_2
If he is just chugging away on that one note then that is the tonic and you've basically got the chromatic scale to choose notes from! You can decide to make it major, or minor, or diminished etc.


yeah this is what i was wondering, thanks alot!
bondmorkret
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Join date: Apr 2012
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#8
Metal riffs tend to lend themselves to modal playing. This riff looks pretty chromatic, you could try to follow the notes as if they were tonal centres but that could be really tough at high tempos. Alternatively, take a symmetrical scale like the diminished or wholetone, and take a more abstract approach. The continuity comes from the scales symmetry. Hopefully that makes sense
Hail
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#9
Quote by bondmorkret
Metal riffs tend to lend themselves to modal playing.


fuck off
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food1010
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#11
Quote by AlanHB
It's in B minor.
Fixed.

1) Solo in B minor
2) Use accidentals, specifically a b2, b5, and others.
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Angusman60
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#12
Quote by bondmorkret
Metal riffs tend to lend themselves to modal playing.

You do have a good point. Especially if there is only a "chug" on the tonic chord, modal improvisation is handy for creating different sounds, depend on the vibe you want.
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bondmorkret
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#13
Quote by Angusman60
You do have a good point. Especially if there is only a "chug" on the tonic chord, modal improvisation is handy for creating different sounds, depend on the vibe you want.


Exactly! Chug rhythms on an open powerchord can be thought of as a static chord progression, so you'd improvise using a mode (probably dorian) and add tension by suggesting the V chord in strategic places.
EmilGD
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#14
Dude it's all about the phrygian supersubdominant mode. **** dorian.
Angusman60
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#15
What scale is that from? Major, minor, diminished, or demolished?
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AlanHB
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#17
Quote by bondmorkret
Exactly! Chug rhythms on an open powerchord can be thought of as a static chord progression, so you'd improvise using a mode (probably dorian) and add tension by suggesting the V chord in strategic places.


But by suggesting a V you'll make it a major or minor song. Major and minor tend to be dirty words with metalheads so I'd recommend you chug on the lowest note available and nothing else.
And no, Guitar Hero will not help. Even on expert. Really.
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AeolianWolf
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Join date: Jul 2009
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#18
B minor.

Quote by bondmorkret
Metal riffs tend to lend themselves to modal playing. This riff looks pretty chromatic, you could try to follow the notes as if they were tonal centres but that could be really tough at high tempos. Alternatively, take a symmetrical scale like the diminished or wholetone, and take a more abstract approach. The continuity comes from the scales symmetry. Hopefully that makes sense


extreme overcomplication, and the first sentence alone shows me that there's a lot you don't know about something you profess to teach. i can see you know your scales but there's far more to music than that -- simple things that you're not even alluding to here.
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Angusman60
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#19
Bondmorkret did answer the question, though. The TS wanted to know different way to approach soloing over a harmony part that does not designate a key. Modes are a good way to create the sound you want in that situation.
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mdc
UG's Mr Chord Man
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#20
Quote by donegan_zealot
Ok so I was jamming with a friend and he said he wasn't very good at soloing. He said he liked how I did and asked for some help with a song he was working on. He is in a metal band and all I heard was

--2----1------
0---1---4-2-3

on his 7 string
(not exactly accurate but you get the point)

and where he wanted to solo was just some "Djent" breakdown
00-000-00-0000-0-

I didn't know what to do. No chords to follow, no real lead melody, and no vocal melody to go off of? what do you do? Just up for grabs?

1:44 - 2:44

Use what you like. It's an E tonality... open to interpretation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv-fcUPOqOw
AeolianWolf
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Join date: Jul 2009
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#21
Quote by Angusman60
Bondmorkret did answer the question, though. The TS wanted to know different way to approach soloing over a harmony part that does not designate a key. Modes are a good way to create the sound you want in that situation.


so solo over an atonal piece by using modes, which are very much related to having tonics

all your experience aside, angus, do you see the ridiculously basic music 101 contradiction here
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chainsawguitar
Registered User
Join date: Jun 2009
47 IQ
#22
Quote by donegan_zealot

and where he wanted to solo was just some "Djent" breakdown
00-000-00-0000-0-

I didn't know what to do. No chords to follow, no real lead melody, and no vocal melody to go off of? what do you do? Just up for grabs?


So, what you're saying is: you only have a static note to solo over? To be honest, this screams "modes" at me.

Although, if it was me, I would find the happiest sounding mode or scale I could find and solo using that. ESPECIALLY if the song was super depressing and heavy up to that point. You might prefer using a more "minor" or "diminished" sounding one, though.

Maybe I'd do it for the contrast, or maybe just to make people go "WTF?!".

Just make sure the "starting note" of whatever scale you use is the same as the note you're soloing over, and you're good to go.
Hail
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#23
Quote by chainsawguitar
So, what you're saying is: you only have a static note to solo over? To be honest, this screams "modes" at me.

Although, if it was me, I would find the happiest sounding mode or scale I could find and solo using that. ESPECIALLY if the song was super depressing and heavy up to that point. You might prefer using a more "minor" or "diminished" sounding one, though.

Maybe I'd do it for the contrast, or maybe just to make people go "WTF?!".

Just make sure the "starting note" of whatever scale you use is the same as the note you're soloing over, and you're good to go.


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Angusman60
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#24
Quote by AeolianWolf
so solo over an atonal piece by using modes, which are very much related to having tonics

all your experience aside, angus, do you see the ridiculously basic music 101 contradiction here



What I do see is that the discussion is about a static harmony in which there is no major or minor tonality established. This was displayed in the TS's original post. Therefore, atonal music does not apply.
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Hail
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#25
if you know anything about djent, it's not a static harmony.
Quote by theogonia777
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AeolianWolf
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#27
Quote by Angusman60
What I do see is that the discussion is about a static harmony in which there is no major or minor tonality established. This was displayed in the TS's original post. Therefore, atonal music does not apply.


i'm guessing your answer to my original question is a resounding "no".
Anfangen ist leicht, Beharren eine Kunst.
Angusman60
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#28
Atonal is not the same as lacking a major or minor quality. Atonal is the lack of any tonal center.

This is atonal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-fyWc6Mpd8

Simply "chugging" on a power chord is not.
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Hail
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#29
Quote by Angusman60

Simply "chugging" on a power chord is not.


you don't get it
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Akherousia
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#30
Quote by Hail
you don't get it

Please, enlighten us, master.
You've done nothing all thread but accuse people of not knowing what they're talking about and essentially calling them idiots, all the while refraining from throwing your own voice into the fray with anything to actually correct what's being said.

Are you just some internet narcissist who likes sitting back watching people struggle to explain something while you chime in now and then to tell them whether they're getting warmer, or what?

Oh wait.. sorry, I should speak in your language..
'lol Hail doesn't know.'

Can I be part of your special club now?
Angusman60
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#31
On the contrary, I do. But I don't really care enough to argue with you.
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Hail
i'm a mean bully
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#32
djent is a metallic noise, and is also associated with a type of picking that typically brings the note out of pitch by experimenting with hammer-ons and muting. it's not about the note value, it's based on the rhythm and making weird noises.

it's like trying to find the key of a pile of machinery. the beauty of it is the focus turning away from the value of notes in the musicality. to try and consider it as a static harmony is giving it far too much credit theoretically - it's literally noise that sounds kinda cool and kvlt.

also akh, you type like you RP on WoW. stop it, it's really creepy and i feel like you're gonna start saying xD after everything if i try and be nice to you
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AeolianWolf
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#33
Quote by Angusman60
Atonal is not the same as lacking a major or minor quality. Atonal is the lack of any tonal center.

This is atonal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-fyWc6Mpd8

Simply "chugging" on a power chord is not.


we're talking about pieces that do not have tonics.

if there is a static harmony, a tonic is ALWAYS implied (even if never stated).

if a piece does not have a tonic, it is atonal.

if there is no tonal center, modes are 100% irrelevant (as opposed to be 99.9% irrelevant if there is a tonal center).

come on, dude, you're a self-professed theory nut, and i've seen from experience that you're not talking out your ass. i don't think i need to hold your hand through this.
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Angusman60
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Join date: Aug 2004
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#34
Okay. I see what you mean, now. I'm not into metal, so, I was under the impression that djent was simply a overly processed power chord. And the vides that I watched had some sort of tonality to them. So, I guess there's so discrepancy, then.


So I guess the "real" answer to the question is to go with the key or mode the song follows before the "djent breakdown".
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chainsawguitar
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#35
Quote by Angusman60
...I was under the impression that djent was simply a overly processed power chord. And the vides that I watched had some sort of tonality to them. So, I guess there's so discrepancy, then.


Well, that's what I thought, too...especially given the tab written out by the OP...

If you're playing strings on the guitar, not sound effects, you are essentially creating something with a pitch, though...
CelestialGuitar
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#39
Quote by Hail


This may well have been the best post ever made, I laughed for ages!

However, with that Djent breakdown, I would use a series of sweeps in B Minor/B Harmonic Minor, however, that's just how I'd do it if you magically transported me to his band's practice room, with your rhythm being the same note all the way through, as others have said, you're pretty much free, if one has a floating bridge, then they can use that, I've seen one band where the lead guitarist makes his guitar play something similar to dubstep over a break down. Me, I like sweep picking constantly/tapping arpeggios, but with that base, the soloist'll be free to do whatever he fancies, as mentioned before.
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Withorwithout
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#40
Quote by a0kalittlema0n
whatever that 0 is (b on the 7th string or e on the 6th) I'd do some crazy runs with a couple of perfectly timed sweeps based off of that one note.


Ahah, i laugh everytime i see this post for some reason. It's like, i would do some pretty awesome runs with perfectly phrased awesome cool licks at the end. Then i would do a string skipping lick which would also be cool and great as shit. No offence .