Is it fair for male to female transsexuals to compete in sports against women?

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ErikLensherr
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#1
http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2013/04/11/ufc-ronda-rousey-transgender-fighter-fallon-fox/2072937/

I don't know. I don't know too much about bone structure and other anatomical differences between genders. But if they determined he or she had no inherent advantage over 'natural born' women then I'd be for it. I think some people need to check their cisgender privilege, seriously.
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Obsceneairwaves
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#3
no of course not

That's like saying it's fair for an adult to compete in childrens wrestling if he's got a mental disease that gives him the mental capabilities of a child.

He's still a ****ing adult
It's over simplified, So what!

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blake1221
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#5
No.

Unless it's Theo, I don't think that would be much of a threat in an athletic competition.

In all reality, I guess this is more a case by case thing. I don't know nearly enough to give a legitimate answer.
Johnny_Ibanez
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#6
If women want equality, let's do away with men's events and women's event and just have them all competing against each other in the same event. Let's see how they like never winning anything ever again.
adamgur96
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#7
Quote by Obsceneairwaves
no of course not

That's like saying it's fair for an adult to compete in childrens wrestling if he's got a mental disease that gives him the mental capabilities of a child.

He's still a ****ing adult

+2

Also reading this in Johnny Bravo's voice sound hilarious
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theogonia777
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#8
I don't know. On the one hand, they may have some physical advantage, but on the other hand, they may not due to anti-androgens. As long as there is no advantage, who cares?

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Unless it's Theo, I don't think that would be much of a threat in an athletic competition.


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VillainousLatin
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#9
Quote by Obsceneairwaves
no of course not

That's like saying it's fair for an adult to compete in childrens wrestling if he's got a mental disease that gives him the mental capabilities of a child.

He's still a ****ing adult


yeah, this.

^I don't think any amount of drugs can completely take away everything a man developed.
Last edited by VillainousLatin at Apr 11, 2013,
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#10
Quote by theogonia777
I don't know. On the one hand, they may have some physical advantage, but on the other hand, they may not due to anti-androgens. As long as there is no advantage, who cares?

but there totally undeniably is an advantage
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#11
If they're legally now female, it's fair.
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TheChaz
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#12
How many years of male muscular, skeletal, and and hormonal development before SRS? No it's not fair.
severed-metal
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#13
Quote by VillainousLatin
yeah, this.

^I don't think any amount of drugs can completely take away everything a man developed.


They can take away his penis, and that's all a man really has.
Joshua Garcia
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#15
As long as the sport has balls. Nothing makes a transgender male to female person feel like a real woman than a few balls in her face.
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TooktheAtrain
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#16
Why not abolish gender distinctions in sports all together and have mixed gender events?

Then we can stop all the petty squabbling.
WCPhils
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#18
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Why not abolish gender distinctions in sports all together and have mixed gender events?

hahahhahahaha, good one


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BladeSlinger
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#19
If they perform at the same levels as the other women then I don't see why not. If they monitor the amount of testosterone and estrogen in their body then I don't see why not. The male hormones will give them the edge. Without them they won't have as much of an advantage.

People who compete as transsexuals aren't just men in a dress or whatever. They've undergone gender reassignment treatment. I don't think someone who's transgender but hasn't undergone treatment should be allowed to compete.
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Obsceneairwaves
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#20
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that's actually the woman

this is the transgender fighter, that she would potentially fight


It's over simplified, So what!

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VanTheKraut
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#22
I can't believe they suspended Matt Mitrioni over this. Heshe is a "lying, sick, sociopathic... etc. etc." for fighting a woman, and only divulging that heshe was a man afterwards. It's the same as a man going into the ring against a woman and beating her to a pulp (which Fox did). Fox should be banned, not Mitrioni. But UFC doesn't have the balls to stand against the politically correct idiots that try to run the world now.
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#23
Quote by VanTheKraut
I can't believe they suspended Matt Mitrioni over this. Heshe is a "lying, sick, sociopathic... etc. etc." for fighting a woman, and only divulging that heshe was a man afterwards. It's the same as a man going into the ring against a woman and beating her to a pulp (which Fox did). Fox should be banned, not Mitrioni. But UFC doesn't have the balls to stand against the politically correct idiots that try to run the world now.

what
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JimmyBanks6
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#24
this debate was on my fb feed, everyone agreed that they should be allowed because they are now woman and therefore have no advantage.


my mind was blown by that response.

i did not take part in the debate, wasnt worth my time.
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BladeSlinger
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#25
Quote by JimmyBanks6
this debate was on my fb feed, everyone agreed that they should be allowed because they are now woman and therefore have no advantage.


my mind was blown by that response.

i did not take part in the debate, wasnt worth my time.

A lot of people don't really get that it's not a magical process.


I do think that with proper regulations, someone trans people could. They'd just have to have the right amount of estrogen.
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VanTheKraut
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#26
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Lemoninfluence
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#27
Quote by BladeSlinger
If they perform at the same levels as the other women then I don't see why not. If they monitor the amount of testosterone and estrogen in their body then I don't see why not. The male hormones will give them the edge. Without them they won't have as much of an advantage.

People who compete as transsexuals aren't just men in a dress or whatever. They've undergone gender reassignment treatment. I don't think someone who's transgender but hasn't undergone treatment should be allowed to compete.

But it's not just hormone levels that determine performance.

Generally men have more muscle mass and there are differences in the skeletal make up (the most obvious one being the difference in hip bones) but then there's enough variation within genders that there's overlap. And it becomes difficult to differentiate between a gifted 'natural' female and a relatively average male-turned-female.
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Lemoninfluence
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#28
Quote by VanTheKraut
I can't believe they suspended Matt Mitrioni over this. Heshe is a "lying, sick, sociopathic... etc. etc." for fighting a woman, and only divulging that heshe was a man afterwards. It's the same as a man going into the ring against a woman and beating her to a pulp (which Fox did). Fox should be banned, not Mitrioni. But UFC doesn't have the balls to stand against the politically correct idiots that try to run the world now.

If you were transgender and filled out a form asking for your sex you'd put the sex you were at that time, not the one you were born. Otherwise there's no point to having the procedure.

Mitrione should have been banned because he's a professional athlete representing a sport that's not yet fully legal in the US. Apart from the potential shitstorm it could create through perceived discrimination, it just doesn't portray the sport in the right light. Instead of being a professional who's condemning something he believes is wrong, he comes across as some violent thug.

Exactly the image the UFC needs to avoid.
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Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
JimmyBanks6
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#29
Quote by Lemoninfluence
If you were transgender and filled out a form asking for your sex you'd put the sex you were at that time, not the one you were born. Otherwise there's no point to having the procedure.

i was under the impression sex is what you were born, legally.

gender is your choice.

that must be wrong?
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lolmnt
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#30
Yes because body chemistry changes when you get a sex change. Muscle density changes. Etc.
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Obsceneairwaves
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#31
Quote by JimmyBanks6
i was under the impression sex is what you were born, legally.

gender is your choice.

that must be wrong?



I've never made that distinction because I'm lazy, but I actually quite like that.

this is how things should be
It's over simplified, So what!

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TunerAddict
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#32
If sucking dick was an Olympic sport, would it be unfair for gay men to compete?
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Obsceneairwaves
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#33
Quote by TunerAddict
If sucking dick was an Olympic sport, would it be unfair for gay men to compete?


no because men would have no actual advantage over women, other than cosmetically.
It's over simplified, So what!

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Lemoninfluence
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#34
Quote by JimmyBanks6
i was under the impression sex is what you were born, legally.

gender is your choice.

that must be wrong?

From what I understand, being transgender is living as a woman in terms of behaviour, clothing, lifestyle choices etc and being transexual is having had your genitals altered to become like those of the opposite sex.

So a transexual would also be transgender, but someone who is transgender may not have been through sex reassignment surgery.

It's confusing, but I think that someone who's been through SRS and is living as a woman can be forgiven as thinking of themselves as a woman when filling out forms etc.
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Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
Last edited by Lemoninfluence at Apr 11, 2013,
JimmyBanks6
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#35
Quote by element4433
Yes because body chemistry changes when you get a sex change. Muscle density changes. Etc.

are you somehow going to prove that the person has no advantages?

hormones/muscle density/ body frame?


men also tend to have better vision than woman, while woman have better hearing.
not big enough an issue to matter?
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CoreysMonster
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#36
Are there actual studies on this? Have there been scientific tests on how well MtF athletes perform, and how well FtM athletes perform, compared to their "natural" counterparts?

If MtF athletes perform significantly better than females, then of course they shouldn't compete in the same league.

Simultaneously, if FtM athletes can't physically perform at the same level as born males, then they shouldn't be forced to compete with them, either.

More studies are needed on this, methinks.
adamgur96
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#37
Quote by TunerAddict
If sucking dick was an Olympic sport, would it be unfair for gay men to compete?

If it was for giving hand jobs it would be unfair, giving bj's is the same for men and women

I'd imagine
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Obsceneairwaves
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#38
Quote by JimmyBanks6
are you somehow going to prove that the person has no advantages?

hormones/muscle density/ body frame?


men also tend to have better vision than woman, while woman have better hearing.
not big enough an issue to matter?


pretty sure he was being sarcastic mate
It's over simplified, So what!

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Swannie
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#39
Quote by Lemoninfluence
From what I understand, being transgender is living as a woman in terms of behaviour, clothing, lifestyle choices etc and being transexual is having had your genitals altered to become like those of the opposite sex.

So a transexual would also be transgender, but someone who is transgender may not have been through sex reassignment surgery.


This is true. Transgender can also be a catch-all term though.
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#40
Quote by Obsceneairwaves
pretty sure he was being sarcastic mate

i didnt get that impression, those are arguments that were made in the fb thread i was quoting earlier.


im asking serious questions because i dont have enough knowledge on this issue to truly have an educated opinion
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