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A3ON
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Join date: Sep 2013
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#1
So I'm new to the guitar world. I'm taking lessons for open chords on an ESP Ltd M-50. My instructor seems like he really knows how to teach and he's been rated as one of the best in my state. A different instructor, who I have never taken lessons with, said I should be learning power chords instead of open,because I want to learn rock/metal. But idk...is it really that bad to start with the open chords first? I'm having a heck of a time trying to reach some frets on open chords...
Zaphod_Beeblebr
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#2
I have never met a guitarist who could actually live without knowledge of basic open chords. Literally never.

You're having trouble because it's a new skill, give it time; the co-ordination will come as long as you keep up the practice.

As long as your teacher knows what your aims are you should probably assume that what you're doing has a purpose. You don't know enough to be able to tell what's going to be important down the line so learn everything you can.
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greg73
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#3
Trying to learn barre chords without open chords would be a pain I would imagine ! learn the open chords and the notes on at least the top 2 strings
Zaphod_Beeblebr
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#5
Quote by A3ON
That makes sense. But those F chords must really hate me


That's usually the one that gives beginners most trouble. Just keep at it.
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greg73
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#6
The f chord will become easy compared to whats coming=) no doubt ull see it 100 or 1000 times , but learn to roll the finger slightly to the side=)
My pet hate at the moment is a chord barre chords=) but that will change no doubt
A3ON
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#7
Quote by greg73
The f chord will become easy compared to whats coming=) no doubt ull see it 100 or 1000 times , but learn to roll the finger slightly to the side=)
My pet hate at the moment is a chord barre chords=) but that will change no doubt

You're scaring me now
But I really want to learn, so I'll keep at it
Dave_Mc
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#8
Personally I'd learn power chords first as they're easier and fairly applicable to rock and metal.

That's not to say you shouldn't learn open chords too, of course. But I'm never much a fan of teaching the harder thing first, especially when it's arguably less applicable, too.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

Colohue
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#9
Open chords are a great starting point for learning major scale theory and basic chord composition.

Powerchords aren't a starting point for anything. If you play one powerchord, at any time, there's nothing left to learn.
Dave_Mc
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#10
I reckon he should learn whatever lets him play actual real songs as quickly as possible. If you're playing what you want to play, that's half the battle won.

That's not to say he shouldn't work on the open chords etc. as well. But refusing to teach power chords for some arcane reason, when they're arguably the main type of chord used in the stuff he wants to play (and especially when he's pretty new and struggling with the open chords)... is crazy, if you ask me. You have someone who wants to learn, and you're refusing to teach them, basically.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

A3ON
Howdy.
Join date: Sep 2013
311 IQ
#11
Thanks Dave. Btw...ima girl. Lol

But anyway...my instructor hates power chords...I asked him about them and he said and I quote "they're useless. People play song with them and call it music. "

My reaction was oooookay...so I'm never bringing up that subject with him ever again...

Looks like I'm on my own for power chords...anyone recommend a good book?
A3ON
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#12
Btw I don't want to stop with the open chords. But I bought an ESP. And I wanna learn me some Metallica, darn it!
Dave_Mc
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#13
Woops sorry

It's up to you regarding the instructor. If he really is that good, then stick with him but learn power chords on your own time. Just because he is your instructor doesn't mean he has total control over what you learn- use him, basically (he's a dick so don't even feel guilty). Learn what he's good at teaching, and ignore the biased crap he comes out with about power chords.

Power chords are just root and fifth

on the 6th string, the first one there is your open E5. The second one is a movable shape that, as long as you stay on those 3 strings, will be a power chord nomatter which fret you're playing at. (The note in brackets is optional, it's the repeated root an octave higher which gives a thicker sound.)

----------------------
------------------------
-----------------------
-(2)-(3)-------------
--2---3-------------
--0---1-------------

Same thing on the 5th string. Open one is A5, the next is the movable shape. Same as on the 6th string.

------------------------
-----------------------
-(2)-(3)-------------
--2---3-------------
--0---1-------------
----------------------

For starting on the fourth string, the shape is slightly different as the 2nd string is a major third up from the 3rd string, not a fourth as with all the other strings. Again, first shape is the basic open D5 power chord, the next is the movable one.


-----------------------
-(3)-(4)-------------
--2---3-------------
--0---1-------------
---------------------
---------------------

Finally for starting on the 3rd string, again the shape is slightly different because of the 2nd string tuning anomaly. (The open one is G5.)

-(3)-(4)-------------
--3---4-------------
--0---1-------------
--------------------
--------------------
--------------------

For "inverted power chords" (5th on the bass) just use the top two notes of any of those shapes. E.g.


----------------------1-------
----------------2----1--------
-----------1---1------------
-------1--1------------------
--1---1-----------------------
--1---------------------------

(that's for all the strings; again, they're movable)

That's about it. There are a couple of extended shapes you can do which sound bigger again, but those'll cover you for 95% of what you need when it comes to power chords.

oh and did i say your teacher is a dick? Don't forget that part. I don't care how good a teacher he is, he's a dick.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

Last edited by Dave_Mc at Oct 8, 2013,
Shadowofravenwo
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#14
Quote by Dave_Mc
I reckon he should learn whatever lets him play actual real songs as quickly as possible. If you're playing what you want to play, that's half the battle won.

That's not to say he shouldn't work on the open chords etc. as well. But refusing to teach power chords for some arcane reason, when they're arguably the main type of chord used in the stuff he wants to play (and especially when he's pretty new and struggling with the open chords)... is crazy, if you ask me. You have someone who wants to learn, and you're refusing to teach them, basically.


Completely agree! I quit guitar the first time and didn't touch it for 15 years because of my first teacher. I wanted to play rock and metal. What did my teacher teach me? Blues chord progressions, folk stuff, etc with no short cuts. He also wanted me to stick to one song, tabbed out in full. After a year, wasn't really much better at open chords (2 jobs and full time high school didn't help) I have up, assumed I sucked, would never be good.

Her teacher should be mixing what she likes with what she needs to know.
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Shadowofravenwo
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#15
Quote by A3ON
Thanks Dave. Btw...ima girl. Lol

But anyway...my instructor hates power chords...I asked him about them and he said and I quote "they're useless. People play song with them and call it music. "

My reaction was oooookay...so I'm never bringing up that subject with him ever again...

Looks like I'm on my own for power chords...anyone recommend a good book?


Trust me, get a new teacher. The person is an egotistical dick who sounds like my old teacher.
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MaaZeus
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#16
Quote by A3ON
Thanks Dave. Btw...ima girl. Lol

But anyway...my instructor hates power chords...I asked him about them and he said and I quote "they're useless. People play song with them and call it music. "

My reaction was oooookay...so I'm never bringing up that subject with him ever again...

Looks like I'm on my own for power chords...anyone recommend a good book?



What you need is a new teacher... Okay, wtf is he smoking? Power chord and its variants is THE basic chord of all hard rock, punk and metal. Yes, its not complex (though the speed you may need to move it around accurately can make it so) and there is so much more to guitar than chugging power chords. Though there are more uses to power chords than just chugging them out too. But he has balls to berate them and at the same time iconic guitarists who inspired entire generations of musicians?

Seriously, if he can make you the best campfire guitarist singing My Lord Kombaya you are not any closer your goals. If he knew your tastes are into rock and metal while taking you as his student, but does not know a thing about that side of guitar playing except his own ego driven misconceptions he is IMHO worthless to you other than getting the guitar basics down and honing a proper technique no matter how good he is with the guitar. His teaching will at some point wander of to things that simply do not matter to you and interest you one bit and in worst case ending up in situation like Shadowofraven described.


Sorry for the rant, but people like him piss me off. Not the first time I have encountered "Ooo power chords, even child can play them" people...

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Last edited by MaaZeus at Oct 9, 2013,
cha33 armstrong
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#18
Just learn power chords and play power chord songs like "for whom the bell tolls" the just learn chords when it comes to it
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A3ON
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Join date: Sep 2013
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#19
Once i get the basics of open chords down, that teacher is gone. I still can't believe how cold he is towards rock and metal....that's why I bought a guitar...Yet he has me playing country and songs I don't like. . It's like a sin to play country on an ESP electric.........IMHO.

Anyway, I found a totally awesome music shop that was EXTREMELY helpful, but it's like an hour away. The guy there was really easy to talk to and he didn't smudge my taste in music. I think I can go there if I have a problem from now on.
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#20
Quote by Shadowofravenwo
Completely agree! I quit guitar the first time and didn't touch it for 15 years because of my first teacher. I wanted to play rock and metal. What did my teacher teach me? Blues chord progressions, folk stuff, etc with no short cuts. He also wanted me to stick to one song, tabbed out in full. After a year, wasn't really much better at open chords (2 jobs and full time high school didn't help) I have up, assumed I sucked, would never be good.

Her teacher should be mixing what she likes with what she needs to know.


exactly

Quote by MaaZeus
What you need is a new teacher... Okay, wtf is he smoking? Power chord and its variants is THE basic chord of all hard rock, punk and metal. Yes, its not complex (though the speed you may need to move it around accurately can make it so) and there is so much more to guitar than chugging power chords. Though there are more uses to power chords than just chugging them out too. But he has balls to berate them and at the same time iconic guitarists who inspired entire generations of musicians?

Seriously, if he can make you the best campfire guitarist singing My Lord Kombaya you are not any closer your goals. If he knew your tastes are into rock and metal while taking you as his student, but does not know a thing about that side of guitar playing except his own ego driven misconceptions he is IMHO worthless to you other than getting the guitar basics down and honing a proper technique no matter how good he is with the guitar. His teaching will at some point wander of to things that simply do not matter to you and interest you one bit and in worst case ending up in situation like Shadowofraven described.


Sorry for the rant, but people like him piss me off. Not the first time I have encountered "Ooo power chords, even child can play them" people...


+1

(except if he really is such a good teacher you might be biting off your nose to spite your face- as I said, there's nothing to hinder you learning the good stuff he's teaching and ignoring the stuff he says about power chords.)
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

demonhellcat
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Join date: Aug 2010
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#21
They're both useful. I'm self taught mostly and started with power chords (Smells Like Teen Spirit) and then moved to G-Am-C-D-Em open chords. Honestly it was probably 3-4 months before I could play full on bar chords with consistency.
reincarnator
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#22
You need to learn chords at some point. I found them great just for getting some strength and flexibility in my hand. In addition, you can start doing some fun and interesting things once you understand the theory behind them.

That said, you need to have fun playing. As someone else said, little point in practicing blues if you really want to play metal (although again, there are ways to integrate different styles into different genres). If he is as good a teacher as he sounds, I'd stick with him for a while, but I'd also try to learn some other stuff in your spare time.

First time I tried guitar (about 11 years ago) I had a similar experience. It pretty much turned me off guitar for the next 5 years. I started again about 5 years later (with help from UG!) and this attempt turned out MUCH better.
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Shadowofravenwo
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#23
I dunno Dave_Mc

What are the odds a student is going to stick with a teacher who doesn't make it fun for them even if they are amazing? My current teacher and I have very similar music tastes. Yet, when he has needed me to fill a gap and come in at a different time, I've heard him teaching kids Taylor Swift, Maroon 5, etc. He hates that stuff, and has told me so, but he puts his ego aside and teaches the kids what they want to learn, which giving them excerises that will help them as well. His attitude is similar to mine...Slash rules...no wait, that is out common bond, it's that more people playing guitar and loving it especially kids, the better!

Heck, because I insist on using my pinky (well insist may not be the right word, I just find myself using it without thought), he's had to relearn some things that he never taught with a pinky before.
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Dave_Mc
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#24
Yep it's definitely not black and white. I agree with you, there are some teachers who would put me off, even if they are "well-respected".

I was just kind of playing devil's advocate. it really just depends on how much of a dick he is, how constantly he's putting down the music she likes, and how useful the other stuff he's good at teaching is. I'm not sure there's a single right answer here.
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

A3ON
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#25
As long as i dont mention rock or metal, i think i'll be fine........btw, how long does one really need a teacher for? If you understand how to play a chord and know the names of the strings and where finger placement goes (while looking at the chord on paper), does it really pay to go somewhere just to enforce that?
J_W
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#27
There is nothing to really learn about power chords, once you know what one is you've learned all there is to learn. It's super simple and is the same no matter where it's played on the neck. I would continue learning the basics from your current teacher and just start learning simple rock songs with power chords on your own. You'll be glad you learned the open chords later, trust me. This is coming from a guy who plays 99% metal. Rock and metal have clean parts too, it's not all distortion and power chords.

Good luck to ya.
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#28
Quote by A3ON
(a) As long as i dont mention rock or metal, i think i'll be fine........(b) btw, how long does one really need a teacher for? If you understand how to play a chord and know the names of the strings and where finger placement goes (while looking at the chord on paper), does it really pay to go somewhere just to enforce that?

(a) exactly, play him at his own game. if he's a perfectly good teacher as long as you don't mention rock and metal, then don't mention rock and metal. If he annoys you even if you don't mention rock and metal (or you'd prefer to get a teacher who is willing to teach you what you want to learn), then get another teacher.

(b) hard to say, really. there's always more to learn. That being said, once you hit a certain level you can near enough teach yourself. And it's entirely possible that at some point you'll overtake your teacher. If he's not teaching you anything new and you start getting the feeling, "I could have taught myself that", or you get the feeling that he's just rehashing the same old stuff, then maybe you can start to consider going out on your own (or finding another teacher who can teach what you need).
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

Shadowofravenwo
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#29
Quote by Dave_Mc
(a) exactly, play him at his own game. if he's a perfectly good teacher as long as you don't mention rock and metal, then don't mention rock and metal. If he annoys you even if you don't mention rock and metal (or you'd prefer to get a teacher who is willing to teach you what you want to learn), then get another teacher.

(b) hard to say, really. there's always more to learn. That being said, once you hit a certain level you can near enough teach yourself. And it's entirely possible that at some point you'll overtake your teacher. If he's not teaching you anything new and you start getting the feeling, "I could have taught myself that", or you get the feeling that he's just rehashing the same old stuff, then maybe you can start to consider going out on your own (or finding another teacher who can teach what you need).



I see you point, but this guy has no problems taking her money, yet not giving her what she wants to begin with. He can teach her other stuff as side activities like mine does. Personally, I'd be finding a new teacher.

I mean, she cab't mention rock or metal? Seriously? She had to censor what she likes, and she's footing the bill? Something wrong with this.
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Dave_Mc
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#30
I don't disagree with you
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

Shadowofravenwo
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#31
TS

My teacher has been trying to teach my the main riff from mister brownstone. Not one of may favourite songs. I came in wanting to learn the main riff from rocket queen. He switched up on the spot. He still gave me a bit of brownstone because there is stuff I can work on in there that is in my skill range, but he don't push or get huffy about it. We worked on both. That is the way it should be.

Dave_mc

Good! You shouldn't! Lol!


Dave
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#32
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

innovine
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#33
Quote by A3ON
But anyway...my instructor hates power chords...I asked him about them and he said and I quote "they're useless. People play song with them and call it music. "


Say goodbye to this instructor. For too many reasons to list here. The main one being, if you add distortion to all those notes in an open chord it will sound like total ass, one big reason to use a powerchord is that it's simplified so that the extra frequencies added when distorting do not produce a total mess. Your instructor is so far up his own ass that he's not listening to anything. And listening is the most important part of learning music. Do you really want to learn to play from a guy who describes the music you like as "useless, people call it music" ??? Open chords are important, yes, but an open mind and an open ear is even more so. Get a different instructor immediately.
Last edited by innovine at Oct 14, 2013,
atza
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#34
From your question I'd say you are really at the begining stage of lerning guitar. At this point you really shouldn't deviate from the basics such as open chords. That's as if in learning a new language you asked if you should learn grammar first or skip to swear words right away
innovine
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#35
Quote by atza
From your question I'd say you are really at the begining stage of lerning guitar. At this point you really shouldn't deviate from the basics such as open chords. That's as if in learning a new language you asked if you should learn grammar first or skip to swear words right away


uh, reality check... Swear words are the first thing most people learn in a new language. Followed closely by "I love you", "please", "thanks" and how to order fast food. Learning by doing! It's the same with power chords.
You _can_ start with learning grammar, but that's just one way (a dry, academic, slow and uninteresting way). There is no RIGHT way, just the right way for a particular student. Refusing to look at power chords for rock and metal is not a right way.

To the OP, you will of course need to learn both. A teacher that does not understand this isn't any good.
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#36
Quote by innovine
Say goodbye to this instructor. For too many reasons to list here. The main one being, if you add distortion to all those notes in an open chord it will sound like total ass, one big reason to use a powerchord is that it's simplified so that the extra frequencies added when distorting do not produce a total mess.



That is true. While all the good metal guitarists no their chords and know their way around the guitar, they use power chords and its derivatives because open chords tend to sound like ass under lot of gain. If you play them as chords that is. Broken down to arpeggios sound badass for slower buildups. Often used in Black Metal and it doesnt get more high gain than that.

So yes, learn your chords but try to find a teacher that is not an asshole if humanly possible. There should be someone who can teach you both.

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Last edited by MaaZeus at Oct 14, 2013,
Dave_Mc
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#37
Quote by innovine
uh, reality check... Swear words are the first thing most people learn in a new language. Followed closely by "I love you", "please", "thanks" and how to order fast food. Learning by doing! It's the same with power chords.
You _can_ start with learning grammar, but that's just one way (a dry, academic, slow and uninteresting way). There is no RIGHT way, just the right way for a particular student. Refusing to look at power chords for rock and metal is not a right way.

To the OP, you will of course need to learn both. A teacher that does not understand this isn't any good.


Agreed (and I like grammar, but I'm well aware I'm weird... and even with that i still went straight to the swear words in the dictionary ).
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

atza
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#38
Quote by innovine
uh, reality check... Swear words are the first thing most people learn in a new language.


In a new language maybe but in mother tongue the first word is always 'mummy' isn't it ?

And unless he already plays an instrument like the piano or violin than he really shouldn't start with 'swear' words but with basics. Once you can play guitar or some other instrument than you can try learning a new instrument and start with power chords
Dave_Mc
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#39
So hang on a moment... you're suggesting that someone with no musical experience should start with the harder stuff, but if you do have musical experience it's ok to start with the easier stuff?


Does that make sense?
Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

innovine
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#40
I'm suggesting adding lots of distortion, playing power chords and having fun.

You could sit with a big book of theory too.