eric_wearing
KillerOfIdiocracy
Join date: Oct 2011
1,542 IQ
#1
So I read in the UG lessons that a mistake songwriters make is to write for only one instrument in a band setting. Conversiy, I watched Guitar Center Sessions last nig Talib Kweli mentioned that he is not good with writing his own music so he focuses on his strength of lyric writing and has professionals write his music.

So I'm wondering which method is right for me or if one method is no good in general since I play guitar and am currently alone I tend to write for only guitar and bass. I plan in having s 5 to 6 piece outfit (guitar, violin, keys, bass, drums and vocals) to play symphonic metal, just for reference.
Theory is just...wow. I'm getting a bit over my head by trying to learn so much w/o formal educators

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Last edited by eric_wearing at Jan 8, 2014,
Fallenoath
My minds playin' tricks
Join date: Feb 2012
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#2
If Talib Kweli doesn't write his own music he is not a musician. He is a entertainer/performer.

So, I'm kinda confused what you are asking. You want to write music but you gave an example of a non musician. Its kinda like saying you want to be a painter but you are using an example for a dancer. They may both be Arts but they are different on many levels.

If you wanna write Music, just write it. There no right or wrong way its whatever gets your feelings on a page.
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CelestialGuitar
Celestial Wish Guitarist
Join date: Nov 2011
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#3
I will say, as the composer of a Symphonic Metal band, you need to have piles of sheet music, either on a computer as a .Sib/.gpx file, or in real life on pieces of paper. In Symphonic Metal, you need to know what you want at all times, so you can't write guitar riffs and expect a band to play around it, you need to be writing full compositions without an instrument in your hand. Especially as guitars aren't important in music, really. In a band that enjoys mainstream success (i.e, most decent Symphonic Metal bands), the vocals need to take the lead, you need catchy melodies, whether they be upbeat and almost poppy (for instance, Within Temptation's recent single 'Paradise (What About Us?)'), or soaring and epic (the choral section of 'Wheel of Time' by Blind Guardian'), you want people to remember parts of your song, so you could almost afford to forget about guitars and write vocal melodies to start your piece. Unsigned bands in general have poor vocal melodies, in fact, in Symphonic Metal, the vocal melodies seperate your signed from your unsigned, and your big from you small, so always keep that in mind.
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eric_wearing
KillerOfIdiocracy
Join date: Oct 2011
1,542 IQ
#4
Actually I plan on letting the violin and vocals take the front. I grew up blasting nightwish. and evanescence so I know much about "rhythm guitar" (guitar is guitar to me).

I used "the entertainer" talib kweli as an example cos he is a lyricist which I find especially important since my lyric writing fell off in recent years. otherwise the stuff I make would just be score music lol.

but to clear up my question, should I write every single part or should I continue, writing for guitar and wait for other musicians to help?
(CG pretty much told me what I needed though. I'm probably gonna )ust learn the basics of every instrument I want, if a composer can handle dozens of instruments, surely. 6 will be a pretty good deal)
Theory is just...wow. I'm getting a bit over my head by trying to learn so much w/o formal educators

Quote by DBKGUITAR
To be a good lead guitar you must be VERY GOOD AT RYTHM

Quote by MaggaraMarine
My motto: Play what the song needs you to play!
Macabre_Turtle
UG's UGer
Join date: Oct 2006
640 IQ
#5
Quote by Fallenoath
If Talib Kweli doesn't write his own music he is not a musician. He is a entertainer/performer.

So, I'm kinda confused what you are asking. You want to write music but you gave an example of a non musician. Its kinda like saying you want to be a painter but you are using an example for a dancer. They may both be Arts but they are different on many levels.

If you wanna write Music, just write it. There no right or wrong way its whatever gets your feelings on a page.


He is most certainly a musician. Just not a composer. A musician is either a composer, or musical performer, or both. That's how I see it anyway. I wouldn't dare tell the endless people that perform in orchestras and never write a lick of music that they aren't musicians.


OP, personally, I find having the ability to write for every instrument tremendously helpful. It lets you finish the entire song in your own vision rather than letting others potentially corrupt it and take in a different way than you imagined. You'd be surprised how much what you're hearing in your head can be blindsided by having somebody else write another instrument (not that this isn't sometimes helpful). The ideal situation would be that everybody in a band is able to do this. That said, being the right way for me doesn't mean it's the best way for you.
Last edited by Macabre_Turtle at Jan 9, 2014,
Fallenoath
My minds playin' tricks
Join date: Feb 2012
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#6
Quote by Macabre_Turtle
He is most certainly a musician. Just not a composer. A musician is either a composer, or musical writer, or both. That's how I see it anyway. I wouldn't dare tell the endless people that perform in orchestras and never write a lick of music that they aren't musicians.





lolwut?...

If you perform in an orchestra you are a musician.

If you just write music you are a composer. You are not a musician if you only write music. Id classify a musician as someone who plays music for themselves or others. They can write it or not but they have to actually PLAY something. Not make rhymes in a microphone. If he made his own beats that makes him a musician/writer.

This rapper is an entertainer/writer. Not a musician. (what instrument does he play in his band? A microphone?....)
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Macabre_Turtle
UG's UGer
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640 IQ
#7
Quote by Fallenoath
lolwut?...

If you perform in an orchestra you are a musician.

If you just write music you are a composer. You are not a musician if you only write music. Id classify a musician as someone who plays music for themselves or others. They can write it or not but they have to actually PLAY something. Not make rhymes in a microphone. If he made his own beats that makes him a musician/writer.

This rapper is an entertainer/writer. Not a musician. (what instrument does he play in his band? A microphone?....)


It was a typo. I meant a composer or a performer. Of course orchestral performers are musicians.


Also, the idea that composers are not musicians (unless they are also performers) is completely asinine. The people performing in the orchestra are musicians, but the guy who wrote it might not be? What the what?

I do 95% of my writing without an instrument in my hand, and then I only pick up the instruments when it comes time to record the song. If I was to never pick up one of those instruments again, but I continued writing, would I cease to be a musician? Nonsense.
Last edited by Macabre_Turtle at Jan 9, 2014,
Fallenoath
My minds playin' tricks
Join date: Feb 2012
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#9
Quote by Macabre_Turtle
It was a typo. I meant a composer or a performer. Of course orchestral performers are musicians.


Also, the idea that composers are not musicians (unless they are also performers) is completely asinine. The people performing in the orchestra are musicians, but the guy who wrote it might not be? What the what?

I do 95% of my writing without an instrument in my hand, and then I only pick up the instruments when it comes time to record the song. If I was to never pick up one of those instruments again, but I continued writing, would I cease to be a musician? Nonsense.


I believe that a musician is someone who plays an instrument. If you don't play an instrument you aren't a musician. It doesn't matter if you play a little or a lot. I don't understand why you are making this so complicated. I was talking about a rapper and then you had to mix yourself and an orchestra into it. Which both have nothing to do with a entertainer/rapper.

So, Ill just let you live your life thinking people like 50 cent are musicians.
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Last edited by Fallenoath at Jan 9, 2014,
Fallenoath
My minds playin' tricks
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#10
Quote by koslack
So singers aren't musicians?


A singer....

Is a singer.

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Morphogenesis26
UG Nerd
Join date: Apr 2011
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#11
Quote by Fallenoath
lolwut?...

If you perform in an orchestra you are a musician.

If you just write music you are a composer. You are not a musician if you only write music. Id classify a musician as someone who plays music for themselves or others. They can write it or not but they have to actually PLAY something. Not make rhymes in a microphone. If he made his own beats that makes him a musician/writer.


This is horrendously ignorant and disrespectful to vocalists and the voice as an instrument.

Why is a person who only sings not a musician but someone who only plays guitar a musician? Do you need strings? Wood? Frets? What about wind instruments like horns and flutes? Or percussive instruments? What is your criteria that separates vocals from other instruments?
bigblockelectra
Registered User
Join date: Nov 2007
571 IQ
#12
Quote by eric_wearing
So I read in the UG lessons that a mistake songwriters make is to write for only one instrument in a band setting. Conversiy, I watched Guitar Center Sessions last nig Talib Kweli mentioned that he is not good with writing his own music so he focuses on his strength of lyric writing and has professionals write his music.

So I'm wondering which method is right for me or if one method is no good in general since I play guitar and am currently alone I tend to write for only guitar and bass. I plan in having s 5 to 6 piece outfit (guitar, violin, keys, bass, drums and vocals) to play symphonic metal, just for reference.


No one knows what method is right for you.

What qualifies someone in the UG lessons area to give advice on how to write a song?

You are going to have to write all of the parts because you have no one else in the band. What other choice do you have? Do you have access to a professional songwriter? If not, Talib Kweli's method is a moot point and far beyond the reality of the average young musician.
Merciless Tengo
Registered User
Join date: Jun 2009
99 IQ
#14
It seems some people are forgetting that singing (or even just vocalisation in a musical piece) involves a sense of melody, rhythm and technique, at that level, what separates them from guitar players in a manner that means that they are not musicians but guitar players are?

I think musician is a broad term for anyone who partakes in creating or performing music; whether it be a single element on their own (singing/rapping/playing an instrument) or as part of a group, or along with other music being played; or just composing music, even without personally performing any of the parts; as part of a career or a semi-serious hobby.

I think the only argument anyone could realistically present, is that you're not a musician if either, you genuinely don't consider yourself one, you don't sing/rap/compose/play anything at all and spend your time completely otherwise, or you know how to play an instrument but play only very occasionally to the point where it could not be considered a hobby.
Fallenoath
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#15
Quote by Morphogenesis26
This is horrendously ignorant and disrespectful to vocalists and the voice as an instrument.

Why is a person who only sings not a musician but someone who only plays guitar a musician? Do you need strings? Wood? Frets? What about wind instruments like horns and flutes? Or percussive instruments? What is your criteria that separates vocals from other instruments?


Singing in a key and actually hitting notes is completely different then speaking in a monotone voice with rhymes. There is absolutely no "music" being done if you are just speaking in rhyme. None. You act like I'm saying a vocalist has nothing to do with music. You have to be able to control and manipulate music in order to be a musician. Not have someone write your licks/beats while you just speak monotone words into a mic. All I was originally saying was that this rapper guy should not be considered a musician. I'm talking about a ****ing rapper not ****ing Freddie Mercury. I'm sorry I offended you and your rapping career. There there...Your a musician too lil buddy.

If your singing your technically "playing" something but Id like to just call them Vocalists... I don't know how this got so twisted around lmao. All I originally was trying to say was 50 cent isn't a musician. And everyone had to throw shit in from orchestras and everything else. Rap has nothing to do with ****ing concert music. I don't even know why you'd compare that. You act like Im trying to insult everyone here and all I was trying to say was someone who doesn't even write and play their own ****ing music or actually sing isn't a musician. You really consider people like Lil Wayne to be a musician? Id say he's an entertainer. A Pop Icon. Not a musician.
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Last edited by Fallenoath at Jan 9, 2014,
bigblockelectra
Registered User
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#16
Quote by Fallenoath
You really consider people like Lil Wayne to be a musician? Id say he's an entertainer. A Pop Icon. Not a musician.


he does make sound with a guitar....technically, he is a guitar player.
eric_wearing
KillerOfIdiocracy
Join date: Oct 2011
1,542 IQ
#17
Guys, we're getting wag off topic in an argument here. Don't get my thread closed cos I may have an update later or something (idk). Anyway my question has been answered twice (my genre. calls for full compositions but I'll need to figure out the best method for myself)
Theory is just...wow. I'm getting a bit over my head by trying to learn so much w/o formal educators

Quote by DBKGUITAR
To be a good lead guitar you must be VERY GOOD AT RYTHM

Quote by MaggaraMarine
My motto: Play what the song needs you to play!
Morphogenesis26
UG Nerd
Join date: Apr 2011
468 IQ
#18
Quote by Fallenoath
Singing in a key and actually hitting notes is completely different then speaking in a monotone voice with rhymes. There is absolutely no "music" being done if you are just speaking in rhyme. None. You act like I'm saying a vocalist has nothing to do with music. You have to be able to control and manipulate music in order to be a musician. Not have someone write your licks/beats while you just speak monotone words into a mic. All I was originally saying was that this rapper guy should not be considered a musician. I'm talking about a ****ing rapper not ****ing Freddie Mercury. I'm sorry I offended you and your rapping career. There there...Your a musician too lil buddy.

If your singing your technically "playing" something but Id like to just call them Vocalists... I don't know how this got so twisted around lmao. All I originally was trying to say was 50 cent isn't a musician. And everyone had to throw shit in from orchestras and everything else. Rap has nothing to do with ****ing concert music. I don't even know why you'd compare that. You act like Im trying to insult everyone here and all I was trying to say was someone who doesn't even write and play their own ****ing music or actually sing isn't a musician. You really consider people like Lil Wayne to be a musician? Id say he's an entertainer. A Pop Icon. Not a musician.


Look at this:

A singer....

Is a singer.


You didn't say musician when someone assumed you don't consider them, by default, musicians. You did absolute nothing to make it otherwise, and, if anything, only further enforced everyone's belief that you think vocalists aren't musicians.

And yes, rappers are musicians because they play with rhythm and the flow of a song, and many are wordsmiths of high caliber.
Macabre_Turtle
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#19
Quote by Fallenoath
I believe that a musician is someone who plays an instrument. If you don't play an instrument you aren't a musician. It doesn't matter if you play a little or a lot. I don't understand why you are making this so complicated. I was talking about a rapper and then you had to mix yourself and an orchestra into it. Which both have nothing to do with a entertainer/rapper.

So, Ill just let you live your life thinking people like 50 cent are musicians.


I'm making this complicated? All I said was that people that write music are also musicians. And you don't understand why I brought up an orchestra? Maybe try remembering or rereading your own comments. Your very first comment said that not writing your own music makes you not a musician. This is why I brought up an orchestra, the performers of which typically do no music writing. It really couldn't be more obvious. I'm not making things complicated. You're just an easily confused person.
koslack
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#20
Quote by Fallenoath
Singing in a key and actually hitting notes is completely different then speaking in a monotone voice with rhymes. There is absolutely no "music" being done if you are just speaking in rhyme. None. You act like I'm saying a vocalist has nothing to do with music. You have to be able to control and manipulate music in order to be a musician. Not have someone write your licks/beats while you just speak monotone words into a mic. All I was originally saying was that this rapper guy should not be considered a musician. I'm talking about a ****ing rapper not ****ing Freddie Mercury. I'm sorry I offended you and your rapping career. There there...Your a musician too lil buddy.

If your singing your technically "playing" something but Id like to just call them Vocalists... I don't know how this got so twisted around lmao. All I originally was trying to say was 50 cent isn't a musician. And everyone had to throw shit in from orchestras and everything else. Rap has nothing to do with ****ing concert music. I don't even know why you'd compare that. You act like Im trying to insult everyone here and all I was trying to say was someone who doesn't even write and play their own ****ing music or actually sing isn't a musician. You really consider people like Lil Wayne to be a musician? Id say he's an entertainer. A Pop Icon. Not a musician.



If you think rapping is just monotone speaking in rhyme, you have zero knowledge of rap. The best rappers have incredibly advanced notions of rhythm, and yes, there is also melody in what they do. They are musicians - you might not like them, but that simply makes them musicians you do not like.
flexiblemile
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Join date: Oct 2012
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#21
I don't like rap, in fact I despise it, but rappers are musicians. Anyone who says otherwise is simply doing it out of malice or hatred of the genre.

I don't understand how this is even a question. Even the worst rapper who raps monotonously has to do it on time and in tune.

mu·si·cian (my-zshn)
n.
One who composes, conducts, or performs music, especially instrumental music.
[Middle English musicien, from Old French, from Latin msica, music; see music.]
mu·sician·ly adj.
mu·sician·ship n.
Ignore
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#24
seriously, i know this is ot but what do you despise about it? im curious, since you're not just oblivious to rap but also have something against it.
Macabre_Turtle
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#25
Quote by Ignore
seriously, i know this is ot but what do you despise about it? im curious, since you're not just oblivious to rap but also have something against it.


I can't speak for him, but I dislike rap and despise most of it because I've managed to find incredibly little of it that is actually about something. Even when looking at suggestions from people that insist their favorite indie rappers aren't just talking about drugs, women, money, etc., I end up just finding that same crap, or if not, some pseudo intelligent crap about the Illuminati and other nonsense. Secondly, I can't bring myself to appreciate the music itself. I've made attempts at electronic music, and I know that it's not just simply clicking buttons and letting the computer do the work on its own, but it seems like no matter how good somebody is on the production side of making the 'beats,' the creativity, and compositional skill, is just not there. Electronic elements of music only ever seem to be used in a manner I find creative or interesting when its just being infused into other styles (most often soundtrack music). There are exceptions to both of these complaints, of course, but I've found them to be incredibly rare.
flexiblemile
Registered User
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#26
well my point in posting that wasn't to vent my dislike of the genre but mostly to set myself as being semi-objective on this argument. It seems that other posters are easy to make the argument that only people who like rap think that rappers are musicians. That's not my case.

I guess the term "despise" is a bit too visceral to describe my relation with the genre. "intense dislike" would be more appropriate, I think.

To answer your question, why do I intensely dislike rap?

I guess from a musicianship point of view, I don't like the monotonous vocals, the lopsided importance accorded to rhythm as opposed to melody (and it's not even good or complicated rhythm, it's mostly simple rhythms that are pounded into your head) and the focus on lyrics. I don't care about lyrics...

Also, I believe that the rap culture is an incredibly bad influence on youth. It promotes violence, class warfare, racism, drug use, shallowness and selfishness. It's misogynistic and promotes lawlessness.

Obviously these things aren't true of all rap artists but an overwhelming majority of the mainstream rap presents these traits. It's also true that other genres (like metal for example) can also be a source of bad influence on youth, but we're really not talking about the same proportion.

But really most of all, apart from all these things, when there's a rap song playing, it doesn't make me tap my foot or nod my head. It just doesn't bring me pleasure
Macabre_Turtle
UG's UGer
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#27
^I agree with all of that^

No matter how much I dislike rap, the people creating it are still musicians. Even if I think there's not much skill involved (at least not skill in the places that I desire it), they are still musicians.
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#28
Actually i wasnt connecting this to the main topic at all, i just wanted to know why you chose to say that you despised rap music. Who you consider a musician is totally indifferent, i just felt that you maybe didn't give this great music a chance so i hope you can at least read my post.

Look, as a disclaimer, i agree that a lot of today's mainstream "rap music"(if you can even call it that anymore, pseudo-RnB might fit as a better description) is often, monotone, soulless, overproduced and down right annoying. Look at it this way, it's a bunch of sub genres that have developed out of real hip hop and rap music and have gone on to create it's own genre. Therefore it should also be treated as that, something in itself.
So everyhting you said about the overwhelming majority of this mainstream "Rap", we are actually talking about a far relative of real Hip Hop music.

Real hip-hop music is a beautiful thing that is not seclusive of any type of groups, may it be ethnical, geographical or anything else, just like all other music, is it universal.
All forms of Hip-hop were created by kids that have had shit around them for most of their lives, and so they tell their stories. A lot of it is about struggle, but mostly about compensation. Alot of the "bad influence on the youth" as you said is not something they started, its something they had to deal with every day, thats why they rap about it.

Songs that go **** bitches **** hoes, get grills, etc. with the same shitty beat for 3 minutes are songs that you cant compare to good music of the same genre. Thats like saying you "intensely dislike" Pop music because justin bieber is in the mainstream and sings baby, baby, baby for 3 minutes. If you actually listen to good rappers you'll notice that each of them are complex beings who reflect their ideas about all different aspects of life, and so their songs are about; love, music, upbringing, lifestyle, thoughts, storys. etc.

I know you dont care about lyrics, and neither did my 11 year old german self, i couldnt even understand 80% of the shit they were talking about, but one thing drew me to it a lot, and that was the music. Man oh man, Hip Hop music has so tight grooves that dont exsist anywhere else, just like every genre of music. Hip Hop music is a direct product of Jazz, funk, Disco and pop. Remember that Hip hop came up in the late 70s and early 80s. Young people got interested in synths, drum machines and samplers. So instead of learning Guitar, trombone or whatever alot of kids stuck with samplers, synths and drum machines, creating something entirely new and original. And hip-hop of course developed all the time, so kids picked up "real" instruments again as well as electronics, to contribute even more as opposed to being restricted by samples. I could give you an infinitve amount of examples of beautiful hip-hop music, and if you asked me to, i would gladly recommend you some them. And if you dont like it then, i couldnt care less, but at least you gave it a listen and your attention for 5 minutes, putting aside all judgement about influence on society, other shitty artists of the same genre or musicianship.
Last edited by Ignore at Jan 25, 2014,
MaggaraMarine
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#29
Quote by Ignore
Actually i wasnt connecting this to the main topic at all, i just wanted to know why you chose to say that you despised rap music. Who you consider a musician is totally indifferent, i just felt that you maybe didn't give this great music a chance so i hope you can at least read my post.

Look, as a disclaimer, i agree that a lot of today's mainstream "rap music"(if you can even call it that anymore, pseudo-RnB might fit as a better description) is often, monotone, soulless, overproduced and down right annoying. Look at it this way, it's a bunch of sub genres that have developed out of real hip hop and rap music and have gone on to create it's own genre. Therefore it should also be treated as that, something in itself.
So everyhting you said about the overwhelming majority of this mainstream "Rap", we are actually talking about a far relative of real Hip Hop music.

Real hip-hop music is a beautiful thing that is not seclusive of any type of groups, may it be ethnical, geographical or anything else, just like all other music, is it universal.
All forms of Hip-hop were created by kids that have had shit around them for most of their lives, and so they tell their stories. A lot of it is about struggle, but mostly about compensation. Alot of the "bad influence on the youth" as you said is not something they started, its something they had to deal with every day, thats why they rap about it.

Songs that go **** bitches **** hoes, get grills, etc. with the same shitty beat for 3 minutes are songs that you cant compare to good music of the same genre. Thats like saying you "intensely dislike" Pop music because justin bieber is in the mainstream and sings baby, baby, baby for 3 minutes. If you actually listen to good rappers you'll notice that each of them are complex beings who reflect their ideas about all different aspects of life, and so their songs are about; love, music, upbringing, lifestyle, thoughts, storys. etc.

I know you dont care about lyrics, and neither did my 11 year old german self, i couldnt even understand 80% of the shit they were talking about, but one thing drew me to it a lot, and that was the music. Man oh man, Hip Hop music has so tight grooves that dont exsist anywhere else, just like every genre of music. Hip Hop music is a direct product of Jazz, funk, Disco and pop. Remember that Hip hop came up in the late 70s and early 80s. Young people got interested in synths, drum machines and samplers. So instead of learning Guitar, trombone or whatever alot of kids stuck with samplers, synths and drum machines, creating something entirely new and original. And hip-hop of course developed all the time, so kids picked up "real" instruments again as well as electronics, to contribute even more as opposed to being restricted by samples. I could give you an infinitve amount of examples of beautiful hip-hop music, and if you asked me to, i would gladly recommend you some them. And if you dont like it then, i couldnt care less, but at least you gave it a listen and your attention for 5 minutes, putting aside all judgement about influence on society, other shitty artists of the same genre or musicianship.

I agree 100%.

I think the argument that rap music is harmful is as bad as metal music is harmful. Just because you like a song that talks about drugs doesn't mean you actually like drugs. I mean, I find Steel Panther's music really entertaining - they only sing about sex, drugs and rock'n'roll. It's entertainment. Many times metal music is about death but how many people kill somebody because they listen to metal music that talks about death? You may also enjoy watching movies where the "hero" of the movie kills hundreds of people. But that doesn't make you want to kill people.

I also agree that rap music has great grooves. It's not just the lyrics. If people only listened to lyrics, why would they want to listen to music? I mean, there are poems for that. Rap is poems with rhythm. And writing lyrics with a good flow is a skill. To me it doesn't matter that much what the lyrics are about. What matters is how they are written. Of course the message matters too but sometimes you don't have a really important message to say. You could just write a song about how good you feel today but still the lyrics could be genius. It's not all about the message, it's about how you tell about the message. Otherwise I could write the best rap song by just stating facts.

Two songs can have exactly the same message but the other of them may just have better lyrics. It's not that much about the "what", it's more about the "how". You could write good and bad lyrics about whatever subject.

Rap singing can sound good if it's used the right way. It's similar to a guitar solo - it doesn't fit everywhere but in the right place it can sound really good.
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eric_wearing
KillerOfIdiocracy
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1,542 IQ
#31
This is the site that links to the videos I've seen on the rapper in question (sans the interviews sadly)
http://sessions.guitarcenter.com/talib-kweli
Theory is just...wow. I'm getting a bit over my head by trying to learn so much w/o formal educators

Quote by DBKGUITAR
To be a good lead guitar you must be VERY GOOD AT RYTHM

Quote by MaggaraMarine
My motto: Play what the song needs you to play!
innovine
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2012
769 IQ
#32
Quote by MaggaraMarine
You may also enjoy watching movies where the "hero" of the movie kills hundreds of people. But that doesn't make you want to kill people..


Citation needed. Studies show that watching a movie with fast cars, or 30mins playing a racing game on xbox and then driving for real makes you increase your average speed by 10-20kph.
Macabre_Turtle
UG's UGer
Join date: Oct 2006
640 IQ
#33
Quote by innovine
Citation needed. Studies show that watching a movie with fast cars, or 30mins playing a racing game on xbox and then driving for real makes you increase your average speed by 10-20kph.


Citation needed.
koslack
Registered User
Join date: Aug 2008
624 IQ
#34
Quote by flexiblemile


Also, I believe that the rap culture is an incredibly bad influence on youth. It promotes violence, class warfare, racism, drug use, shallowness and selfishness. It's misogynistic and promotes lawlessness.



If you're talking about gangsta rap (by which I mean the real gangsta stuff from the 90s), that was a reflection of the culture these men were growing up in. They were singing about violence because they saw it in their neighbourhoods every day growing up. The really self-aware, great rappers (like Tupac) were able to connect that violence to its causes and effects. Causes: the ugly history of slavery, segregation and institutional racism of the United States, which ghettoized black people and alienated them from any hopes of economic success. The effect: the fetishization of wealth, even if obtained illegally.
I think a lot of those early gangsta rap albums had a really important message that a lot of people missed because omg black people are scary. Looking at the surface and claiming there was nothing but "shallowness and selfishness" is actually a bit racist, because it implies that the people making this music, who are by and large black, lack the intelligence and self-awareness to see WHY they're saying what they're saying.
MaggaraMarine
Slapping the bass.
Join date: Oct 2009
3,411 IQ
#35
Quote by innovine
Citation needed. Studies show that watching a movie with fast cars, or 30mins playing a racing game on xbox and then driving for real makes you increase your average speed by 10-20kph.

Have you watched movies where the "hero" of the movie kills people? (I bet you have.) Did it make you want to kill people? (I doubt it did.)

People need to separate entertainment from real life. They are different things. People watch horror movies for entertainment, not because they really like what happens in the movie. Horror is entertainment because people know it doesn't happen in real life, it happens in a movie. Same with songs. Lyrics are like a book or a movie. I bet you have watched some movies where horrible things happen but have still liked the movie a lot. This doesn't mean you want horrible things to happen.

Just use common sense. I have heard lots of songs about whatever things and I haven't started using drugs or killing people or anything. I find it ridiculous when people try to blame music/lyrics. This isn't 70s any more. And rap haters are doing the same as metal/rock hating parents did in the 70s/80s. You don't need to like the music but saying that rap is "evil" is ridiculous. And I don't really like rap either.
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20Tigers
1
Join date: Jun 2008
640 IQ
#36
Quote by eric_wearing
Guys, we're getting wag off topic in an argument here. Don't get my thread closed cos I may have an update later or something (idk). Anyway my question has been answered twice (my genre. calls for full compositions but I'll need to figure out the best method for myself)


^^

Have some respect for the TS.

If you want to discuss the merits of rap or musicianship or whatever else. create a new thread for the discussion.

What' I'm saying is - No more off topic posts please.
Si
eric_wearing
KillerOfIdiocracy
Join date: Oct 2011
1,542 IQ
#37
Thanks 20Tigers.

About that possible update: I haven't played guitar in over a month now (moved out to attend Job Corps and had to leave the axe behind) and it left me some serious time to make new musical ideas in my head. I realized that I am pretty damn good at writing a theme and music to fit it but I suck at lyrics now. I'll find a songwriter to put words to the things I'm feeling for all my future work :3
Theory is just...wow. I'm getting a bit over my head by trying to learn so much w/o formal educators

Quote by DBKGUITAR
To be a good lead guitar you must be VERY GOOD AT RYTHM

Quote by MaggaraMarine
My motto: Play what the song needs you to play!